so this game has "alpha classes"

Vucar

Timberhick said:

I wonder what the timeframe is on population checking and what happens if there is 12% of the population with active talents.

I think simply by matter of time, that 12% wouldn't hold very long. In my basic scenario, the engine would give no more talents out until enough of that 12% permadied from age or otherwise.

It would mean that all at once there was a very sudden drop in the population of player characters that did not include talented players (massive perma-death on a large scale, and somehow all of the player characters that died ran out of game time at that exact moment).

Thats why i dont expect the 5% to rise beyond 6 or 7% very frequently, or stay that high for very long.

Timberhick

I think there is a lot of different variables that can happen that will futz with the percentages.  It's part of why I wonder why they are basing it on player population, something that will never stay consistent.

Vucar

Timberhick said:

I think there is a lot of different variables that can happen that will futz with the percentages.  It's part of why I wonder why they are basing it on player population, something that will never stay consistent.

Populations will change, but percentages are static. They adjust based on the principle number. It allows them to have any range of server population from 1000 (5% = 50 players with talents) to 100,000 (5% of players = 500 players with talents). 

I'm struggling to come up with a thought experiment where the percentage becomes widely off-mark and causes a problem.

Timberhick

Vucar said:

Populations will change, but percentages are static.

That is the issue.  The game will always be playing catch up with the server pops.

Vucar

Timberhick said:

Vucar said:

Populations will change, but percentages are static.

That is the issue.  The game will always be playing catch up with the server pops.

True. It likely will never be a perfect 5%. If the game has 1287 player characters, and it gave out 64 talents to people (64.3 = 5%, rounded down to 64), and then 20 talent-less people perma-die, now its ~5.1% of the population has talents. So it stops giving talents out until inevitably talented people start dying from old age. 

Doesn't really break the game though.

tawess

I am sure it has been said before.... 

But if any of the skills add a combat advantage... The amount of pissing and moaning that will be heard will be of the scales... Because in a world where people hunt fractions of a DPS and are willing to suffer no end of inconvenience to do so. I am sure these people will be overjoyed to get some crappy non-combat talent. 

And those who do not get one will ofc be overjoyed to play the peasant to the games Galavant´s

Timberhick

Vucar said:

Timberhick said:

Vucar said:

Populations will change, but percentages are static.

That is the issue.  The game will always be playing catch up with the server pops.

True. It likely will never be a perfect 5%. If the game has 1287 player characters, and it gave out 64 talents to people (64.3 = 5%, rounded down to 64), and then 20 talent-less people perma-die, now its ~5.1% of the population has talents. So it stops giving talents out until inevitably talented people start dying from old age. 

Doesn't really break the game though.

So you agree, but then say big whoop?  But lets continue with this

If the game has 1287 player characters, and it gave out 64 talents to people (64.3 = 5%, rounded down to 64), and then 1029 talent-less people perma-die, now its ~25% of the population has talents. So it stops giving talents out until inevitably talented people start dying from old age.

we can keep going back and forth using your made up numbers.  Or maybe you should ask Jeromy why they decided basing most of this game on percentages of the ever changing player population was a great idea.

Vucar

Timberhick said:

Vucar said:

Timberhick said:

Vucar said:

Populations will change, but percentages are static.

That is the issue.  The game will always be playing catch up with the server pops.

True. It likely will never be a perfect 5%. If the game has 1287 player characters, and it gave out 64 talents to people (64.3 = 5%, rounded down to 64), and then 20 talent-less people perma-die, now its ~5.1% of the population has talents. So it stops giving talents out until inevitably talented people start dying from old age. 

Doesn't really break the game though.

So you agree, but then say big whoop?  But lets continue with this

If the game has 1287 player characters, and it gave out 64 talents to people (64.3 = 5%, rounded down to 64), and then 1029 talent-less people perma-die, now its ~25% of the population has talents. So it stops giving talents out until inevitably talented people start dying from old age.

we can keep going back and forth using your made up numbers.  Or maybe you should ask Jeromy why they decided basing most of this game on percentages of the ever changing player population was a great idea.

In what scenario does 80% of the server permanently lose their character all at once, excluding any talented people, followed by not one person creating a new character?

I'm not worried about why they based the talent allotment on percentages with an ever changing player population because this doesn't sound realistic. 80% of a server doesn't just permanently die off all at once. 

Timberhick

In what scenario?  The game's death throes.  I'm worried about  a whole server only having 1278 players on it  Isn't that less players than square kilometers in the game?

Ikonis

Zultra said:

ArChWind said:

Deffcon_1 said:

ArChWind said:

Vucar said:

 

I made your replies unbolded, and replied with my own bolded text.

Like I said I won't bother with it since I won't live to see it completed due to my age so my opinion really doesn't matter I guess.

They are slated for a 2017 release. I hope you will be around for that because itll be great.

probably not

It will be great, since the dev team are very professional, experienced and determined to do this. 

Right. No one has ever said the same exact thing during development of other failed MMOs. /s

Timberhick

You appear to have that exact answer, so how about telling us.

Zultra

Ikonis said:

Zultra said:

ArChWind said:

Deffcon_1 said:

ArChWind said:

Vucar said:

 

I made your replies unbolded, and replied with my own bolded text.

Like I said I won't bother with it since I won't live to see it completed due to my age so my opinion really doesn't matter I guess.

They are slated for a 2017 release. I hope you will be around for that because itll be great.

probably not

It will be great, since the dev team are very professional, experienced and determined to do this. 

Right. No one has ever said the same exact thing during development of other failed MMOs. /s

The game is not even out yet, they have moved last week into a new office to work on CoE, they are going strength to strength. 

k61977

HabitualFrogStomp said:

Yes I'm fully aware that it's a skill based game, but I'm using the term because it will be familiar.

Is this ever a good idea? If it is I haven't seen it executed. I know some people are excited at the prospect that certain characters will have special talents, and it will be random and just generally make some characters unique in whatever way. Some players are likely genuinely okay if they never have a special talent and some other guy does, they'll just be happy playing their game.

Now most other people's objection to this would be "wahh you can't make that guy overpowered that's not fair he kilt me why is he more powerful than me I quit this sucks." Because that's just how MMO chimps are expected to behave. But I don't think it's too much of a problem, depending on the way these talents present themselves in the world.

The issue -I- worry about, is can any -developer- handle the responsibility of having an alpha class in their game? For it to even have a chance of working you have to be committed to the idea that they're special, and not succumb to community pressures to make it more accessible. And perhaps more importantly, can they resist the urge to use the alpha class mechanic as a means to profit? It may be fine for the first 2-3 months of a game when everything is new, but people start to get anxious, pop starts dropping, the forums become more and more fixated on the prospect that they may not have a talent, can they keep their finger off the panic button long enough to see their vision come to pass?

I see this ending badly, just like it always does.

It really seems like you are not here to debate anything.  Anyone that disagrees with your view point is immediately attacked by you and you say they have no idea what they are talking about.  I stopped reading after the first page to be honest because of that.  You keep saying you have played games with alpha classes and are the expert on them, so list the games with them here then, instead of just saying that.

To me the idea someone could actually get something for putting time into something that someone else can't or want is a good thing.  It adds some variety to the game.  The whole idea everyone has to be able to be the exact same is one of the reason I usually don't play a lot of PVP based games.  They dilute the classes into crap because everyone has to be the same across the board or players like you claim it is unfair, and cry about it. 

Calling anyone that doesn't agree with you names like fanboi is not going to help your cause at all it just makes people like me who don't really care one way or the other dismiss anything you post from this point on.  I know nothing about this game and really don't care to be honest.

Maygus

k61977 said:

</snip>

OP has been banned, as well as his new account that was created.

Perhaps this thread can be locked and if someone wishes to re-hash this train of thought into a more clear/logical argument.... however since this thread started the talent system has been tweaked slightly, talents are per character life and do not persist through death, all other elements are the same to our understanding.

Amana

Since it is true that the system has changed, locking this. If you'd like to discuss the mechanics as they stand, feel free to start a new thread.