I would first like to acknowledge an error I did, as pointed out by @RedAlert539 , by setting down City of Heroes as a post WoW production. I personally remember production videos of it during the Lineage II beta stage.
@Thane ; At least you have to acknowledge the fact that, on this site, the top most trending mmorpgs in development are all indie productions, thats 7 out of 7.
In fact, this is the fist time in many years in which I do not know of any western AAA mmorpg releases. Or even games that is in development. Do you happen to know of any projects in development which I don't?
Big companies, have, and will ignore multi million dollar markets if it is not trending. How many years did we see a complete dry of space simulators. Then suddenly Star Citizen comes along and say something like "I'm a PC only game. I'm a space ship simulator", and redefines the definition of crowd founded. It's not like people just stopped wanting to play space simulators, they just weren't made. (Did you in fact know that a flightstick used to be a pretty standard peripheral on a PC desk, now I haven't seen anyone that has one standing on the desk for over ten years).
But alas, before I loose my trail of thought completely, no, mmorpgs are not dead. We will get those Asian releases 5 years later here in the west, and we will get indie (small) project. However, those indie projects don't cater to all, in fact there is a greater chance you will not enjoy very much. Hence the "niche".
One of the biggest games in the past two years is an MMO... it's just not on PC, yet.
Well, if we count LoL as MMO too, then everything is all right
There are plenty of other successes .. World of Tank, TOR, Hearthstone, ... hey i bet someone is going to count Overwatch when it releases.
None are MMORPGs and as typical, not relevant to the topic at hand.
You know better, but just can't help yourself.
Please try to stay on topic by providing examples of new MMORPGS under development in the world.
what? TOR is not a MMORPG?
Plus, the point of the topic is about there will be none or few new MMORPGs .. so it is natural to talk about alternatives. Again, Overwatch is not a MMORPG (but will it be a MMO, we shall see how MMO websites react) but certainly some MMORPG players, without new MMORPGs to play, may play Overwatch, right?
I remember when this was posted last year... and the year before.. etc, etc.
Yeah, but unlike earlier years there are only a few indie MMOs and kickstarters being developed in the west (well, I havn't actually hear Microsoft/Undead lab cancelling "Class 4" so there might be one left but I havn't anything new about it the last 2 years either).
The real problem is that MMOs are very expensive to make and demands that you constantly update them. There are several teams in the world trying to develop AIs that can create game content and if one of the succeeds and keeps the cost of using it acceptable it would open up things for smaller developers again and shrink the cost to make MMOs.
Another problem is that few games have tried to be different in the last 10 years so when people tire of one kind of MMO they leave the genre since almost all the others play more or less the same.
We have a few games that are 2-3 years old like ESO and GW2 that could increase their playerbase a lot with a good expansion, that would start things up again. We have some indie games that actually have very experienced crews and if one of them to good we could get a revival. Technology is another possibility, and not just AIs but stuff like VR do have a lot of potential for MMOs. And MMOs could gain popularity from some other type of popular culture, Sword arts online and Log Horizon do have recruited many MMO players particularly in Japan. Or an Eastern MMO (like the upcomming Lineage game) could become a hit in the west and inspire devs and publishers to make new western AAA MMOs.
I doubt we seen the last of larger mainstream MMOs but right now Europe and North America seems pretty silent. MMOs is the type of genre that moves with trends though and a new trend will come along sooner or later but it wouldn't surprise me if we get the weakest few MMO years 2016-2018 since before 2004.
A: WoW finally dies and releases a flood of players onto the market (not likely) B: An indie developer releases a new kind of MMO, tests it and shows that it works. Then they will likely buy it and/or begin developing new MMOs with this new formula.
C: Indie developer makes a great new game, but most of the users on this site never bother to try it. "That's not an mmorpg." "That's not a Sandbox." "Pfft, Tab Targeting." "Eew, who wants to play a furry?" etc.
Developers need to stop trying to make MMOs more like MOBAs, Im kinda getting sick of it myself. I get MOBAs are racking in huge money but what makes MMOs great in the past is gone for the most part with how things are being developed. If I wanted a MOBA I would go play one. Im done with MMOs for now, will try EQN. If that does not pan out, Im not following the market to close after that. If something makes a huge hit, I may come back then. You know, another WoW moment.
The market is flooded with mmo's already. Why bother wasting resources on this genre anymore. I would rather see more open world real rpg single player games.
Developers need to stop trying to make MMOs more like MOBAs, Im kinda getting sick of it myself.
Wait they should stop just because YOU are sick of it? Why?
And they are not just making MOBAs. Blizz is making an online shooters, card games, and there are tons of survival sandbox games.
They are not only making MMOs more like MOBAs. They are abandoning old style MMORPGs and make other types of online games.
Its Ok, the predicted and very necessary crash and burn of the AAA market has occurred and out of the ashes better titles will emerge now that the tourists have moved on.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A: WoW finally dies and releases a flood of players onto the market (not likely) B: An indie developer releases a new kind of MMO, tests it and shows that it works. Then they will likely buy it and/or begin developing new MMOs with this new formula.
C: Indie developer makes a great new game, but most of the users on this site never bother to try it. "That's not an mmorpg." "That's not a Sandbox." "Pfft, Tab Targeting." "Eew, who wants to play a furry?" etc.
Maybe that's the real root of the problem. Because there are so many MMOs available now, players have begun to filter down to very specific preferences. "I want a sandbox game that focuses only on elves building tree houses."
Then any that come close, but not quite, are left vacant.
It really comes down to cost of development and management. I'm fine with having niche games with a significant but modest population. That sounds great actually. But the devs then need to figure out how to keep the game alive on those reduced numbers.
NOTE: Back in the day, 200k players was enough for a game to be called a success, and the cost of development and maintenance has gone down significantly since then. Maybe devs just need to be a bit less greedy.
Developers need to stop trying to make MMOs more like MOBAs, Im kinda getting sick of it myself.
Wait they should stop just because YOU are sick of it? Why?
And they are not just making MOBAs. Blizz is making an online shooters, card games, and there are tons of survival sandbox games.
They are not only making MMOs more like MOBAs. They are abandoning old style MMORPGs and make other types of online games.
Its Ok, the predicted and very necessary crash and burn of the AAA market has occurred and out of the ashes better titles will emerge now that the tourists have moved on.
Enjoy your MOBAs.
I don't play MOBAs (may be a bit of HoTS .. Blizz games are always fun) .... but there are plenty of other types of non-massive MMOs.
Maybe that's the real root of the problem. Because there are so many MMOs available now, players have begun to filter down to very specific preferences. "I want a sandbox game that focuses only on elves building tree houses."
the mmo genre is the most ridiculous, bad and sad genre i have ever seen. maybe its good that its getting smaller. finding their own niche. whats really irritating me is the fact that, after 10 years of copying WoW, all the bigger companies are leaving. that speaks so much about them. they suck and thought they had an easy recipe for much money by following the WoW cake.
if the recent changes mean that genre falls into the hands of devs who actually care about the genre, then i am all for it. still, you mmo gamers are at fault too. you supported those for over 10y and some still are...
102 posts on an MMO site for a genre you don't care about. Lots of free time on your hands?
Maybe that's the real root of the problem. Because there are so many MMOs available now, players have begun to filter down to very specific preferences. "I want a sandbox game that focuses only on elves building tree houses."
MMORPG are terrible games for the most part in comparison to RPG. They always come off as inconvenient single player games that are over convenient multiplayer games.
Genre has always had potential but I think they lost their way getting players who want to play single player games to play MMORPG.
Maybe that's the real root of the problem. Because there are so many MMOs available now, players have begun to filter down to very specific preferences. "I want a sandbox game that focuses only on elves building tree houses."
wait .. having many choices is a bad thing?
Although it may seem counter intuitive, yes too many choices can be a bad thing if you're looking for big budget games. The greater the number of choices, the greater the dilution of the people pot. Thus they may be hesitant in using a lot of resources on a small pool. However with fewer options, the pool is potentially more lucrative.
Maybe that's the real root of the problem. Because there are so many MMOs available now, players have begun to filter down to very specific preferences. "I want a sandbox game that focuses only on elves building tree houses."
wait .. having many choices is a bad thing?
Although it may seem counter intuitive, yes too many choices can be a bad thing if you're looking for big budget games. The greater the number of choices, the greater the dilution of the people pot. Thus they may be hesitant in using a lot of resources on a small pool. However with fewer options, the pool is potentially more lucrative.
This is Apple's marketing strategy and actually the reason they're so successful. They believe that too many choices confuse and overwhelm their consumers. The deliberately limit choices. If you want a tablet, you get the iPad. If you want a desktop, you get the iMac. If you want a phone, you get the iPhone. It's the simplicity that focuses and drives their market.
Now personally, I'm not an Apple fan. I like choices and customization. But yeah, when you're developing something with high overhead and you need a large market share just to survive, more choices can be detrimental.
Comments
@Thane ;
At least you have to acknowledge the fact that, on this site, the top most trending mmorpgs in development are all indie productions, thats 7 out of 7.
In fact, this is the fist time in many years in which I do not know of any western AAA mmorpg releases.
Or even games that is in development. Do you happen to know of any projects in development which I don't?
Big companies, have, and will ignore multi million dollar markets if it is not trending.
How many years did we see a complete dry of space simulators.
Then suddenly Star Citizen comes along and say something like "I'm a PC only game. I'm a space ship simulator", and redefines the definition of crowd founded.
It's not like people just stopped wanting to play space simulators, they just weren't made.
(Did you in fact know that a flightstick used to be a pretty standard peripheral on a PC desk, now I haven't seen anyone that has one standing on the desk for over ten years).
But alas, before I loose my trail of thought completely,
no, mmorpgs are not dead.
We will get those Asian releases 5 years later here in the west,
and we will get indie (small) project.
However, those indie projects don't cater to all, in fact there is a greater chance you will not enjoy very much.
Hence the "niche".
Plus, the point of the topic is about there will be none or few new MMORPGs .. so it is natural to talk about alternatives. Again, Overwatch is not a MMORPG (but will it be a MMO, we shall see how MMO websites react) but certainly some MMORPG players, without new MMORPGs to play, may play Overwatch, right?
It's not going to fill my MMORPG needs though..
The real problem is that MMOs are very expensive to make and demands that you constantly update them. There are several teams in the world trying to develop AIs that can create game content and if one of the succeeds and keeps the cost of using it acceptable it would open up things for smaller developers again and shrink the cost to make MMOs.
Another problem is that few games have tried to be different in the last 10 years so when people tire of one kind of MMO they leave the genre since almost all the others play more or less the same.
We have a few games that are 2-3 years old like ESO and GW2 that could increase their playerbase a lot with a good expansion, that would start things up again. We have some indie games that actually have very experienced crews and if one of them to good we could get a revival. Technology is another possibility, and not just AIs but stuff like VR do have a lot of potential for MMOs. And MMOs could gain popularity from some other type of popular culture, Sword arts online and Log Horizon do have recruited many MMO players particularly in Japan. Or an Eastern MMO (like the upcomming Lineage game) could become a hit in the west and inspire devs and publishers to make new western AAA MMOs.
I doubt we seen the last of larger mainstream MMOs but right now Europe and North America seems pretty silent. MMOs is the type of genre that moves with trends though and a new trend will come along sooner or later but it wouldn't surprise me if we get the weakest few MMO years 2016-2018 since before 2004.
Anyone waiting impatiently for the next 8-bit hit?
But yeah, websites, AAA devs, and many players have moved on.
Wait they should stop just because YOU are sick of it? Why?
And they are not just making MOBAs. Blizz is making an online shooters, card games, and there are tons of survival sandbox games.
They are not only making MMOs more like MOBAs. They are abandoning old style MMORPGs and make other types of online games.
Enjoy your MOBAs.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Then any that come close, but not quite, are left vacant.
It really comes down to cost of development and management. I'm fine with having niche games with a significant but modest population. That sounds great actually. But the devs then need to figure out how to keep the game alive on those reduced numbers.
NOTE: Back in the day, 200k players was enough for a game to be called a success, and the cost of development and maintenance has gone down significantly since then. Maybe devs just need to be a bit less greedy.
I don't play MOBAs (may be a bit of HoTS .. Blizz games are always fun) .... but there are plenty of other types of non-massive MMOs.
wait .. having many choices is a bad thing?
I think he is referring to the mainstream themepark genre, not mmorpgs in general.
Genre has always had potential but I think they lost their way getting players who want to play single player games to play MMORPG.
I self identify as a monkey.
Now personally, I'm not an Apple fan. I like choices and customization. But yeah, when you're developing something with high overhead and you need a large market share just to survive, more choices can be detrimental.