At least in the west, upcoming titles are only from "smaller" developers, and targets a more niche crowd. It's either that, or rehashed games from Korea/China.
I feel single player games are on the rise and trending, once again.
I think this is a good thing, perhaps we will see more diversity in mmos again, and less "Top 10 anticipated mmos of XXXX" videos on youtube now.
Wasn't Korea the first to put target-less combat into an mmo back in 2003?
If you ask me the West generally advances the social aspect of mmos, where the East will generally push the core aspects of the game(audio/visual/combat) itself.
In the West you have innovations such as player-housing from UO, Party finder tools from City of Heroes, Public Questing, Everquest 2 has facial recognition software that allows a player to alter the expression of his characters face via webcam, and not to mention the various social media integration, which honestly I don't know what mmo first started using it.
While the East often pushes the boundaries in audio and visual fidelity, Phantasy Star Online was the first game to offer voice customization for a player's character. Black Desert currently has the most robust character creator available. Risk Your Life brought what is now known as "Action Combat" into the genre.
In theory the facial recognition software from EQ2 was supposed to be much more detailed in EverQuest Next, but that game smells like vaporware at this point.
That being said, both sides of the metaphorical fence make strides nearly every other year, that push the genre technologically further. However you should realize that the genre itself is almost never original, almost all aspects of every mmo can be found in other games. The most original aspects of the genre can be found in the net coding and data packing.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Aw cmon Bill, you should know the difference between Destiny and a proper MMORPG, even if you drank the kool aid
That it is making way more money?
O.o More money than what? Keep in mind that a single purchase of Destiny doesn't come close to regular subscriptions or cash shop sales of even an average MMO.
I like the fact indie developers are taking back the mmorpg. It is the only way we will see niche gaming again.
Big biz does not innovate. This is why you see the 14th edition of games. Same shit, same pile ... profit. It is mass marketing which ruins niche gaming (variety for different interests. The big devs have turned pc gaming into console gaming and this is a very, very bad thing.
Mmos cannot however simply have endless sequels. They take too long and too much capital to make. This is why they have evolved into rotating door, solo friendly games. Great for those who want a casual or lobby style game but not for those wanting a niche experience that takes time and investment. The conversion may be different than single player titles but the end result is the same: profit over game concept.
This has directly placed the industry in it's current state. Asian mmos have already been F2P developed and need no conversion. Simply bring them over and profit on the same model the big developers want: profit over game concept.
This ends up being a benefit to niche gaming. The demand still exists but not within the scope of big developer needs so indie studies pick up the slack and make very specific games for specific audiences. Nearly every single old school mmorpg was developed by an indie developer then bought up and corrupted for profit. We have come full circle again and we may as well enjoy it (sadly still have to wait for most of these games to see the light of day) ... before the cycle repeats where big biz buys up the small developers again.
We will always see waves and crashes in gaming. It has been this way since the 70's since the very first game consoles appeared and early pc gaming in the 80s.
This has been stated many times: Mmorpgs should never have been "Mainstream" to begin with.
The thing with MMO's is that people are always left feeling like they need more, so the jump to the next MMO to find out they need even more. MMO's are pretty much as good as there going to get in terms of what you can do with them, everything has already been done a million times over.
The thing with MMO's is that people are always left feeling like they need more, so the jump to the next MMO to find out they need even more. MMO's are pretty much as good as there going to get in terms of what you can do with them, everything has already been done a million times over.
Not true. There is always room for innovation. Laying the foundation to allow innovation is what is required. I explained already why big developers do not innovate.
Also, to say something has been done and does not need to be done again is an ignorant statement. The entire reason why we are seeing indie mmorpgs developed now, inspired from older mmorpgs proves this. Players WANT a newer version and new evolution of older mmos. This was stripped from them when their games were bought out by big biz. At that very point they stopped evolving from their original concept and were converted to something else entirely... literally converted as most became f2p, revolving door solo experiences. They were essentially converted into lobby games.
Students of history know that the entire human story is one of reinvention and rarely invention.
the mmo genre is the most ridiculous, bad and sad genre i have ever seen. maybe its good that its getting smaller. finding their own niche. whats really irritating me is the fact that, after 10 years of copying WoW, all the bigger companies are leaving. that speaks so much about them. they suck and thought they had an easy recipe for much money by following the WoW cake.
if the recent changes mean that genre falls into the hands of devs who actually care about the genre, then i am all for it. still, you mmo gamers are at fault too. you supported those for over 10y and some still are...
the mmo genre is the most ridiculous, bad and sad genre i have ever seen. maybe its good that its getting smaller. finding their own niche. whats really irritating me is the fact that, after 10 years of copying WoW, all the bigger companies are leaving. that speaks so much about them. they suck and thought they had an easy recipe for much money by following the WoW cake.
if the recent changes mean that genre falls into the hands of devs who actually care about the genre, then i am all for it. still, you mmo gamers are at fault too. you supported those for over 10y and some still are...
A: Then why are you here? Just to troll?
B: Millions of people enjoy WoW and its many clones. Not me personally, but their popularity speaks for itself. Just because you (or I) don't like something doesn't mean it's bad. That's a hipster mentality.
the mmo genre is the most ridiculous, bad and sad genre i have ever seen. maybe its good that its getting smaller. finding their own niche. whats really irritating me is the fact that, after 10 years of copying WoW, all the bigger companies are leaving. that speaks so much about them. they suck and thought they had an easy recipe for much money by following the WoW cake.
if the recent changes mean that genre falls into the hands of devs who actually care about the genre, then i am all for it. still, you mmo gamers are at fault too. you supported those for over 10y and some still are...
I thought this was a good post to be honest....The genre has become too mainstream and it really does need to fall back into a niche so we can get some better games
The thing with MMO's is that people are always left feeling like they need more, so the jump to the next MMO to find out they need even more. MMO's are pretty much as good as there going to get in terms of what you can do with them, everything has already been done a million times over.
Not true at all...Theres a ton more they can do they just havent been willing to do it.....Outer space is pretty massive...Theres a lot of potential there.....Like a previous poster said the majority of games the past 10 years have followed the WoW formula...Give the players lots of quests, instances, and battlegrounds and they will be happy has been the formula, but there's alot of us looking for other things out of our MMOs.
At least in the west, upcoming titles are only from "smaller" developers, and targets a more niche crowd. It's either that, or rehashed games from Korea/China.
I feel single player games are on the rise and trending, once again.
I think this is a good thing, perhaps we will see more diversity in mmos again, and less "Top 10 anticipated mmos of XXXX" videos on youtube now.
It is just you thinking that Okay probably some more people who state this every year for the last 5 years... wait till you see all the new Korean MMOs arrive to NA/EU. The only thing that's dying is Western MMO industry.
the mmo genre is the most ridiculous, bad and sad genre i have ever seen. maybe its good that its getting smaller. finding their own niche. whats really irritating me is the fact that, after 10 years of copying WoW, all the bigger companies are leaving. that speaks so much about them. they suck and thought they had an easy recipe for much money by following the WoW cake.
if the recent changes mean that genre falls into the hands of devs who actually care about the genre, then i am all for it. still, you mmo gamers are at fault too. you supported those for over 10y and some still are...
A: Then why are you here? Just to troll?
B: Millions of people enjoy WoW and its many clones. Not me personally, but their popularity speaks for itself. Just because you (or I) don't like something doesn't mean it's bad. That's a hipster mentality.
That's the mentality of the majority of mmo players, at least the most vocal ones.
The developers making games like eso, gw2, swtor, etc... are passionate about their game. I don't understand this fascination with railing on every company that makes a profit. All this nonsense about "CEOs" and faceless executives forcing developers into poor decisions. Sure there are deadlines that devs will have to meet, but the larger devs have a ton of freedom. There's no executive breaking down every aspect of a game trying to min/max the amount of money they can bleed from our pockets.
In fact I'd go so far as to say the company spending over a hundred million cares more about the genre than the guy making empty promises and setting completely unreachable goals in an effort to get us to fund his low budget indie mmo.
Things ebb and flow. I dont think that western companies are gonna ignore a multi billion market for long.
The major companies are likely waiting for one of two things to happen.
A: WoW finally dies and releases a flood of players onto the market (not likely) B: An indie developer releases a new kind of MMO, tests it and shows that it works. Then they will likely buy it and/or begin developing new MMOs with this new formula.
The MMO industry is just really risky right now, cuz either you're competing for WoW players which only an idiot would do, or you're trying something completely different... which also only an idiot would do... or an indie.
Aw cmon Bill, you should know the difference between Destiny and a proper MMORPG, even if you drank the kool aid
That it is making way more money?
So does the NFL and the NBA (both involve games) but neither is relevant to a discussion about MMORPGs (thread title) nor is Destiny part of the topic at hand.
You ignore the distinction I know (all just entertainment products, am I right?) but I expected better from Bill.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
At least in the west, upcoming titles are only from "smaller" developers, and targets a more niche crowd. It's either that, or rehashed games from Korea/China.
I feel single player games are on the rise and trending, once again.
I think this is a good thing, perhaps we will see more diversity in mmos again, and less "Top 10 anticipated mmos of XXXX" videos on youtube now.
It is just you thinking that Okay probably some more people who state this every year for the last 5 years... wait till you see all the new Korean MMOs arrive to NA/EU. The only thing that's dying is Western MMO industry.
I hope you have more titles than blade and soul when you say there's innovation coming out of Korea in the next few years.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
At least in the west, upcoming titles are only from "smaller" developers, and targets a more niche crowd. It's either that, or rehashed games from Korea/China.
I feel single player games are on the rise and trending, once again.
I think this is a good thing, perhaps we will see more diversity in mmos again, and less "Top 10 anticipated mmos of XXXX" videos on youtube now.
It is just you thinking that Okay probably some more people who state this every year for the last 5 years... wait till you see all the new Korean MMOs arrive to NA/EU. The only thing that's dying is Western MMO industry.
I hope you have more titles than blade and soul when you say there's innovation coming out of Korea in the next few years.
B&S is 3,5 years old game. And western market wasnt very impressed with those korean MMOs in the past. Quite teh contrary.
Comments
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
If you ask me the West generally advances the social aspect of mmos, where the East will generally push the core aspects of the game(audio/visual/combat) itself.
In the West you have innovations such as player-housing from UO, Party finder tools from City of Heroes, Public Questing, Everquest 2 has facial recognition software that allows a player to alter the expression of his characters face via webcam, and not to mention the various social media integration, which honestly I don't know what mmo first started using it.
While the East often pushes the boundaries in audio and visual fidelity, Phantasy Star Online was the first game to offer voice customization for a player's character. Black Desert currently has the most robust character creator available. Risk Your Life brought what is now known as "Action Combat" into the genre.
In theory the facial recognition software from EQ2 was supposed to be much more detailed in EverQuest Next, but that game smells like vaporware at this point.
That being said, both sides of the metaphorical fence make strides nearly every other year, that push the genre technologically further. However you should realize that the genre itself is almost never original, almost all aspects of every mmo can be found in other games. The most original aspects of the genre can be found in the net coding and data packing.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Big biz does not innovate. This is why you see the 14th edition of games. Same shit, same pile ... profit. It is mass marketing which ruins niche gaming (variety for different interests. The big devs have turned pc gaming into console gaming and this is a very, very bad thing.
Mmos cannot however simply have endless sequels. They take too long and too much capital to make. This is why they have evolved into rotating door, solo friendly games. Great for those who want a casual or lobby style game but not for those wanting a niche experience that takes time and investment. The conversion may be different than single player titles but the end result is the same: profit over game concept.
This has directly placed the industry in it's current state. Asian mmos have already been F2P developed and need no conversion. Simply bring them over and profit on the same model the big developers want: profit over game concept.
This ends up being a benefit to niche gaming. The demand still exists but not within the scope of big developer needs so indie studies pick up the slack and make very specific games for specific audiences. Nearly every single old school mmorpg was developed by an indie developer then bought up and corrupted for profit. We have come full circle again and we may as well enjoy it (sadly still have to wait for most of these games to see the light of day) ... before the cycle repeats where big biz buys up the small developers again.
We will always see waves and crashes in gaming. It has been this way since the 70's since the very first game consoles appeared and early pc gaming in the 80s.
This has been stated many times: Mmorpgs should never have been "Mainstream" to begin with.
You stay sassy!
Also, to say something has been done and does not need to be done again is an ignorant statement. The entire reason why we are seeing indie mmorpgs developed now, inspired from older mmorpgs proves this. Players WANT a newer version and new evolution of older mmos. This was stripped from them when their games were bought out by big biz. At that very point they stopped evolving from their original concept and were converted to something else entirely... literally converted as most became f2p, revolving door solo experiences. They were essentially converted into lobby games.
Students of history know that the entire human story is one of reinvention and rarely invention.
You stay sassy!
if the recent changes mean that genre falls into the hands of devs who actually care about the genre, then i am all for it. still, you mmo gamers are at fault too. you supported those for over 10y and some still are...
B: Millions of people enjoy WoW and its many clones. Not me personally, but their popularity speaks for itself. Just because you (or I) don't like something doesn't mean it's bad. That's a hipster mentality.
The developers making games like eso, gw2, swtor, etc... are passionate about their game. I don't understand this fascination with railing on every company that makes a profit. All this nonsense about "CEOs" and faceless executives forcing developers into poor decisions. Sure there are deadlines that devs will have to meet, but the larger devs have a ton of freedom. There's no executive breaking down every aspect of a game trying to min/max the amount of money they can bleed from our pockets.
In fact I'd go so far as to say the company spending over a hundred million cares more about the genre than the guy making empty promises and setting completely unreachable goals in an effort to get us to fund his low budget indie mmo.
I self identify as a monkey.
A: WoW finally dies and releases a flood of players onto the market (not likely)
B: An indie developer releases a new kind of MMO, tests it and shows that it works. Then they will likely buy it and/or begin developing new MMOs with this new formula.
The MMO industry is just really risky right now, cuz either you're competing for WoW players which only an idiot would do, or you're trying something completely different... which also only an idiot would do... or an indie.
You ignore the distinction I know (all just entertainment products, am I right?) but I expected better from Bill.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
and as always, i reply with "hearing that for over 10 years now"... so maybeeeeeee.... you should end your end theories? ^^ just sayin
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
None are MMORPGs and as typical, not relevant to the topic at hand.
You know better, but just can't help yourself.
Please try to stay on topic by providing examples of new MMORPGS under development in the world.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon