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Multiboxing
Adamantine
Member RarePosts: 5,085
The current Pledges all include TWO "digital copies" of the game. I
think that means anyone who pledges automatically receives the ability
to dualbox ? But needs to pay two accounts, of course.
There is an official thread about this, but its locked: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2315/no-boxing-allowed
In Vanguard I've been an avid opponent of dualboxing for the longest time, but then I realized I can do a LOT of stuff with two accounts that I cant with one, like:
- Of course the most classical useage: soloplay with classes that are especially poor at it, like probably again Warrior and Monk. Basically theres simply a healer running behind the character, buffing them from time to time - and every time you need it, you throw them a heal. This allows leveling such a class even if population is low.
- Buffing, namely having a bunch of buffing characters that can buff my group, including my main character, before getting into especially hard battles. This actually was very important in the late parts of Vanguard when a lot of group content became raid-ish in toughness and full buffs was kinda mandatory. That was the reason I actually started considering dualboxing in Vanguard because frankly, if not a lot of people would have already done that, these kind of quests would have been impossible.
- Crafting or Harvesting or doing Diplomacy on the second account when the first account currently has downtime (like waiting for a PUG to form etc). Also automatically group bonus for Harvesting with two toons (in Vanguard that gave faster harvesting skill raises). In retrospect, that would have helped me TONS with leveling my complete set of crafters (one could forget about leveling two crafters at the same time, though- the crafting system of Vanguard was far too involved for that).
- Another biggie: Easily moving items from one character to another, without having to hassle with the mail system (no cost, and more importantly can move a lot of items at a time, thus its much faster).
- Likely able to play ALL the classes without having to delete characters. This way I could have had all classes of Vanguard from the get go (8 character slots, 15 classes, at the beginning of the game).
- Also availability of fast travel, assuming that Pantheon will see a return of Wizards and Druids having teleportation means.
There is an official thread about this, but its locked: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2315/no-boxing-allowed
In Vanguard I've been an avid opponent of dualboxing for the longest time, but then I realized I can do a LOT of stuff with two accounts that I cant with one, like:
- Of course the most classical useage: soloplay with classes that are especially poor at it, like probably again Warrior and Monk. Basically theres simply a healer running behind the character, buffing them from time to time - and every time you need it, you throw them a heal. This allows leveling such a class even if population is low.
- Buffing, namely having a bunch of buffing characters that can buff my group, including my main character, before getting into especially hard battles. This actually was very important in the late parts of Vanguard when a lot of group content became raid-ish in toughness and full buffs was kinda mandatory. That was the reason I actually started considering dualboxing in Vanguard because frankly, if not a lot of people would have already done that, these kind of quests would have been impossible.
- Crafting or Harvesting or doing Diplomacy on the second account when the first account currently has downtime (like waiting for a PUG to form etc). Also automatically group bonus for Harvesting with two toons (in Vanguard that gave faster harvesting skill raises). In retrospect, that would have helped me TONS with leveling my complete set of crafters (one could forget about leveling two crafters at the same time, though- the crafting system of Vanguard was far too involved for that).
- Another biggie: Easily moving items from one character to another, without having to hassle with the mail system (no cost, and more importantly can move a lot of items at a time, thus its much faster).
- Likely able to play ALL the classes without having to delete characters. This way I could have had all classes of Vanguard from the get go (8 character slots, 15 classes, at the beginning of the game).
- Also availability of fast travel, assuming that Pantheon will see a return of Wizards and Druids having teleportation means.
Comments
The latest TLP EQ server actually won't allow multiboxing on the same PC, EQ will prevent you from launching more than one EQ instance (still possible on other TLP and blue servers). And it will prevent ISBoxer from launching.
So the response from the Pantheon moderator in your link is only a half-truth, EQ had many issues with multiboxing, so much so they are now launching no box servers.
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/producers-letter-july-update-and-whats-coming-up.225472/
I played multiple characters in EQ during Gates. But before you call me hypocritical.
That was during Gates of Discord, where most guilds could barely progress through some of the unbalanced zones, I boxed on many raids in Txevu and Tacvi, I boxed M'sha with another player to help our guild gear up, and we had logged out clerics in most zones to quickly rez everyone.
I boxed at a time where many players were bailing on the game because the content was too hard for most, a time where most guilds could barely find the 54 players to form their raid. It was either box or don't raid. EQ lost most of its players during GoD.
It wasn't until much later, where I saw more and more people multibox, that I saw the negative impact on the community and the game.
I think best bet for it is to ban it to the hardcore rules server (please let there be one!). Then be absolutely draconian in dealing with it. Ban people form the server on the account/IP/etc... level and use all kinds of neat networking tricks to insure it. Also encourage community mobbing of it (nothing like a good community to shame it, report it, etc...).
That will be enough to reduce it to the point of very uncommon occurrence. Allow it on other servers and everyone should be happy. This way, those who break these rules are obviously cheating deviants and they can go all Joe Pesci on their arse.
Lets see your Battle Stations /r/battlestations
Battle Station
Adamantine has the links to Pantheon forums where Kilsin said: "Boxing will be allowed, but the way our characters and abilities are set up it will make it very hard. We will not tolerate cheats, gold farmers or botting programs but having multiple accounts to dual box is perfectly fine."
The problem is with how to make a multi-boxed character extremely less efficient than playing a single character, while still implementing a slower-paced combat system. Even then, a gamer could probably easily work around most changes by using programmable keyboards/mice/joysticks. To prevent it, you might need a mechanism like mobs that are constantly moving, and in a way that can frustrate ranged in addition to melee DPS. I cannot see how to frustrate a healer as the second box without frustrating everyone in the process.
Lets see your Battle Stations /r/battlestations
Battle Station
That person would need to purchase everything twice (some people on some games have 10 all running round), they must have a hell of a good system and plenty of money to do that. Me, i would rather just have 1 character and avoid PvP type games as a whole. You would not be able to compete in that sort of game.
A guy runs 18 accounts to target contested raid mobs. How is he hurting anyone?
Example:
Guy runs 6 accounts and camps the named spawns in a dungeon while others are trying to do the same content as a group of separate people.
No problem at all, you know... because every game is like WoW. /facepalm
It would be rather draconian and sure to cause a lot of tantrums.
That is why I think a rule set server would be best for it. There is no reason someone could even remotely justify doing it on a special server when there are other servers that allow it. This way you can ban their account, IP, CC, and take any other draconian measure to tell them to piss off because there is no reasonable argument to support them doing it on that server.
You want to remove it from the game or at least stop 5/6 boxers,then make grouping viable,incentives for grouping,make combat all about interaction with players in a group because you can only really imo play 2 characters decently 3 or more and your going to struggle badly ,without cheating of course.
So i guess the most important thing for me in every game is hopes that the developer has a clamp on cheating,from crafting to every single aspect of the game.The other very important factor is do NOT have Bosses that are required fro some quest drop rare loot,that encourages botters and duo box camping,everyone should have access to do their quest.On that note ,NO i cannot stand instancing such Bosses that adds a layer of fake and single player gaming.
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"it isn't fair" .. is an argument I respect
That's all you really need, to have a convincing argument. At its core, multiboxing isn't fair, and in a world where relative player power, determines progression, in a genre where gear and stats do matter to some, it's a great argument.
Now that was back when multi-boxing was done with separate computers (I have seen pictures of his setup an yes, it was quite impressive he controlled them all). Think of today with all of the visualization software and various utilities that allow even the most technically illiterate to achieve such success (I could easily set such up on a single computer and even script in individual functions for classes so you wouldn't even realize I was playing them all).
See a problem?
Nah... I mean, it isn't hurting anyone. Right?
By the way Coman, I don't mean to be offensive, but you are pretty darn ignorant about technical capabilities as well as the historical occurrence of this form of play. How about doing some extensive googling of botting, multiboxing, etc... on the internet, I think you are going to be surprised.
Just to give you an example. You can use a free program called Synergy with multiple computers, or multiple virtual PCs and what it does is send your input signals (mouse/keyboard) over the network. Every virtual machine is then listening for that multicast. It picks it up and sends that to the game you are playing.
So, put all of your characters on follow, then using the keyboard and mouse mapping, bind multiple keys to your other characters skills, just as you would a single character and you can control multiple characters as if you were controlling a single one (heck of a lot easier than trying to coordinate actions with other real people).
Very powerful, makes doing things with many characters very simple and I didn't even get into the elaborate nature of scripting.
Looking for a group? Who cares, I don't need you, I have my own.
Think about that next time you are sitting around going "Why can't I find a group!"
However I do agree with you scripting is wrong. Regardless how many toons someone is controlling. Like i said what you are doing is fearmongering, just getting two different issues and mix them together to show how evil one thing is. Using scripts to gain an inhuman advantage is wrong. Controlling multiple character at the same time is not.
Yes Coman, you are ignorant (that is not an offense, just a blunt fact) and yes, this can be a very big problem that can effect your play.
Here is the thing. You allow me to box, now tell me how you can tell if I am scripting? Remmeber, I am a single guy setting at a single computer with 18 virtual PCs which are no differnt than 18 real PCs AND I have scripting that tells me when any of my PCs get a tell and patches it to me either in game, or... because I am clever, through a 3rd party system outside of the game. So you can't test me with a GM, because I can answer to them the moment they send me a tell and you can't "test" with software because I have blocked your ability to do so.
So what are you going to do?
Nothing, remember... it doesn't effect you right?
Remember, back in the day, it was multiple computers needed, a skilled player and a tech savy person to achieve such. These days, the guy flipping burgers who has no clue about their computer can easily download software that will do it for them.
This is much like the issue of script kiddies, wannabe hackers who use other peoples effort and work in programs to do things they are too stupid to figure out on their own.
The issue back then was that most players weren't skilled enough, these days, I can teach a 7 year old to do it.
This makes it a problem today, when it wasn't a problem back then.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Either way, short of limiting houses to only run one instance of Pantheon per IP address, they won't be able to stop dual boxing. There are entirely way too many couples/families that play online video games together for that to be reasonable.
At the end of the day the people that don't want dual boxing would be doing themselves a favor to go find another battle to fight. VR already said their stance on dual boxing was that it was acceptable, but using software to play any secondary accounts was not. Love it or hate it VR is willing to make decisions that are not popular with everyone, hence the niche group they are targeting and their openness about not deviating from that.
I see what you did there. You offer 2 choices when a third one would be "it is ok to do".
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