Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

The Lack of Delivered Content

1246716

Comments

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130

    Anyone familiar with Chris  Roberts work should know his MO is overpromised, underdelivered, and late.


    They'd better release the single player part of the game in the next year, or even True Believers are going to start getting a little nervous.


    Pretty much this. I mean I think that even the optimist would be hard-pressed to argue that funding would be looking pretty scarce after another year. 


    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • vadio123vadio123 Member UncommonPosts: 593
    relax guys who buyed starcitzen you awalys can show off you ships in hangar 
    and piece a paper dont forget print out in most large you found 

    But true..... most people just lose faith on it 
  • sipusipu Member UncommonPosts: 200
    I understand RSI. Releasing something way too early (buggy, unfinished, empty) would have more destructive effects. I can see those complaints - "Is it this I pledged for 1000 bucks?". Patience is a key here. Chris is taking different route than Frontier, which delivers brand new features every patch to make game complete.
  • Broken.ArrowBroken.Arrow Member UncommonPosts: 84
    I see a lot of jokers on this game's forums ask this cliched question,"Do you know how long it takes to make a game?"


    For the sake of argument, lets say None of us here know anything about game development. 


    But sadly, going by those standards CR knows less than the hypothetical clueless plebs, since he has been dropping multiple release dates and constantly failing to uphold them left, right and center. Why dont all those jokers go ask CR if he knows how long it takes to develop a game eh?



    But long story short, CIG is using the perpetual-hype paradigm to keep the crowdfunding afloat. CIG will drop no long term date (they have been saying that Everything is just around the corner or just weeks away or only one more year, right from 2014) to keep the rabid backers on tenterhooks. If the backers are thrown a bone with short term dates, regardless of if they can actually upload said date with any release whatsoever, they can be fooled into opening their wallets just a little more, just a few more times. 

    But they are playing with fire. Rather than drive the crowdfunding plank of actual content, they are driving it forward on bogus dates, fancy jpeg sales, lofty promises and a lot of hot gas spewing from CR's trap. If by any chance they fail to deliver the most awesome space sim-mmo-rpg-fps-religion ever made, these very backers will most likely eat them alive. 

    Maybe he got two or three years tops, before the mob starts demanding for someone's head.

    ---

    A proud User of [[Adblock Plus]], to block out all the bullshit paid advertisements (also read as "game reviews") spam on mmorpg.com. 

    ----


    I was banned for pointing out the obvious faults in a game 2 months before it released.
    Now after release, repeating the very same words from back then would be like preaching to the choir on this site.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342

    Anyone familiar with Chris  Roberts work should know his MO is overpromised, underdelivered, and late.


    They'd better release the single player part of the game in the next year, or even True Believers are going to start getting a little nervous.

    When nervous, buy a new ship!
  • SlothnChunkSlothnChunk Member UncommonPosts: 788
    edited November 2015
    Roberts already acknowledged that as more and more stretch goals have been funded the scale and scope of the project changes.  So the end goals have changed over time with more features/content which obviously means more development time.

    So Chris had two choices: 1) Stick with original goals and failing to deliver on stretch goal after stretch goals which would anger those who wanted and funded said stretch goals...or.... 2)  Develop towards what the fans wanted and subsequently funded.  This would obviously change the scale/scope of the project requiring more development for a more complicated project than originally planned.

    I think they made the right decision.  Just imagine if they raised all that money for stretch goals and yet didn't develop for them from the start but instead developed towards the more limited initial vision of the final game.  That would mean trying to somehow tack on more complicated systems/features in the future without building them in from the start (I would argue that would result in a total mess of a final project with the final vision being tacked on....and in terms of MMOs when things are tacked on later they often aren't implemented well due to game/system/engine systems designed with a different launch project in mind).
  • pingopingo Member UncommonPosts: 608
    I see a lot of jokers on this game's forums ask this cliched question,"Do you know how long it takes to make a game?"


    For the sake of argument, lets say None of us here know anything about game development. 


    But sadly, going by those standards CR knows less than the hypothetical clueless plebs, since he has been dropping multiple release dates and constantly failing to uphold them left, right and center. Why dont all those jokers go ask CR if he knows how long it takes to develop a game eh?



    But long story short, CIG is using the perpetual-hype paradigm to keep the crowdfunding afloat. CIG will drop no long term date (they have been saying that Everything is just around the corner or just weeks away or only one more year, right from 2014) to keep the rabid backers on tenterhooks. If the backers are thrown a bone with short term dates, regardless of if they can actually upload said date with any release whatsoever, they can be fooled into opening their wallets just a little more, just a few more times. 

    But they are playing with fire. Rather than drive the crowdfunding plank of actual content, they are driving it forward on bogus dates, fancy jpeg sales, lofty promises and a lot of hot gas spewing from CR's trap. If by any chance they fail to deliver the most awesome space sim-mmo-rpg-fps-religion ever made, these very backers will most likely eat them alive. 

    Maybe he got two or three years tops, before the mob starts demanding for someone's head.

    I'm pretty sure keeping development a float every single day bleeds them more dry than crowdfunding coming in. What you say makes no sense. This idea that you see some conspiracy in them not meeting deadlines, when that is the de-facto standard in the industry tells me that you don't know much about working in a software development environment. 

    It feels like this to you, because unlike other normal non-crowdfunded games you know the internal deadlines and milestones. You don't do that for regular games. On top of everything, this game is so popular the goal posts keep changing and the keep getting more funded for more and more. That is an unusual situation. Normally you work until your budget is out, or you ask for an extension or more money, or you have to release. 
    The whole idea with this crowdfunding is that they can make a game a normal publisher would never fund because the scope and ambition of it is out of this world. 


    How this went over your head as you have descended into conspiracy theory land is beyond me. Do you have any idea of what it cost to keep up development for an entire studio, like the size of Star Citizens for one day? Do you have any idea how much licensed middle-ware tools cost? 
    This idea that they are going to be rich over keeping a crowdfunding alive is so incredible stupid. I hope you one day get to work on a 100+ team so you can see the ignorance in your own conclusions. Jesus christ. 


    They would never have done all these things or made all these systems had they planned a bait-and-switch. get real. They've already bled through a lot of their budget. If the game fails or doesn't become a success, the developers and CR won't get anything out of it. 
  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    pingo said:
    I see a lot of jokers on this game's forums ask this cliched question,"Do you know how long it takes to make a game?"


    For the sake of argument, lets say None of us here know anything about game development. 


    But sadly, going by those standards CR knows less than the hypothetical clueless plebs, since he has been dropping multiple release dates and constantly failing to uphold them left, right and center. Why dont all those jokers go ask CR if he knows how long it takes to develop a game eh?



    But long story short, CIG is using the perpetual-hype paradigm to keep the crowdfunding afloat. CIG will drop no long term date (they have been saying that Everything is just around the corner or just weeks away or only one more year, right from 2014) to keep the rabid backers on tenterhooks. If the backers are thrown a bone with short term dates, regardless of if they can actually upload said date with any release whatsoever, they can be fooled into opening their wallets just a little more, just a few more times. 

    But they are playing with fire. Rather than drive the crowdfunding plank of actual content, they are driving it forward on bogus dates, fancy jpeg sales, lofty promises and a lot of hot gas spewing from CR's trap. If by any chance they fail to deliver the most awesome space sim-mmo-rpg-fps-religion ever made, these very backers will most likely eat them alive. 

    Maybe he got two or three years tops, before the mob starts demanding for someone's head.

    I'm pretty sure keeping development a float every single day bleeds them more dry than crowdfunding coming in. What you say makes no sense. This idea that you see some conspiracy in them not meeting deadlines, when that is the de-facto standard in the industry tells me that you don't know much about working in a software development environment. 

    It feels like this to you, because unlike other normal non-crowdfunded games you know the internal deadlines and milestones. You don't do that for regular games. On top of everything, this game is so popular the goal posts keep changing and the keep getting more funded for more and more. That is an unusual situation. Normally you work until your budget is out, or you ask for an extension or more money, or you have to release. 
    The whole idea with this crowdfunding is that they can make a game a normal publisher would never fund because the scope and ambition of it is out of this world. 


    How this went over your head as you have descended into conspiracy theory land is beyond me. Do you have any idea of what it cost to keep up development for an entire studio, like the size of Star Citizens for one day? Do you have any idea how much licensed middle-ware tools cost? 
    This idea that they are going to be rich over keeping a crowdfunding alive is so incredible stupid. I hope you one day get to work on a 100+ team so you can see the ignorance in your own conclusions. Jesus christ. 


    They would never have done all these things or made all these systems had they planned a bait-and-switch. get real. They've already bled through a lot of their budget. If the game fails or doesn't become a success, the developers and CR won't get anything out of it. 
    They won't get the money from salary? Heck no one even knows how much they are paying them self. If they are giving out bonuses and how much to each person! Then you have some of the background of a few of the people involved aren't your run of the mill gamer's/developers. I know if I put money into this project I would be a little worried that some were involved with money laundering schemes. All that info is out there to research and it would be prudent for any backer to look it up and see who you are trusting with the money.  

    This could have been a great game with a lot to look forward too but I really do not see it ever getting finished. Be interesting to see what the financials look like once they have to open the books. 
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • Viper482Viper482 Member LegendaryPosts: 4,102
    He's got more $1000 pixels in the shape of a ship to sell you first.....
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • SlothnChunkSlothnChunk Member UncommonPosts: 788
    Brenics said:
    pingo said:
    I see a lot of jokers on this game's forums ask this cliched question,"Do you know how long it takes to make a game?"


    For the sake of argument, lets say None of us here know anything about game development. 


    But sadly, going by those standards CR knows less than the hypothetical clueless plebs, since he has been dropping multiple release dates and constantly failing to uphold them left, right and center. Why dont all those jokers go ask CR if he knows how long it takes to develop a game eh?



    But long story short, CIG is using the perpetual-hype paradigm to keep the crowdfunding afloat. CIG will drop no long term date (they have been saying that Everything is just around the corner or just weeks away or only one more year, right from 2014) to keep the rabid backers on tenterhooks. If the backers are thrown a bone with short term dates, regardless of if they can actually upload said date with any release whatsoever, they can be fooled into opening their wallets just a little more, just a few more times. 

    But they are playing with fire. Rather than drive the crowdfunding plank of actual content, they are driving it forward on bogus dates, fancy jpeg sales, lofty promises and a lot of hot gas spewing from CR's trap. If by any chance they fail to deliver the most awesome space sim-mmo-rpg-fps-religion ever made, these very backers will most likely eat them alive. 

    Maybe he got two or three years tops, before the mob starts demanding for someone's head.

    I'm pretty sure keeping development a float every single day bleeds them more dry than crowdfunding coming in. What you say makes no sense. This idea that you see some conspiracy in them not meeting deadlines, when that is the de-facto standard in the industry tells me that you don't know much about working in a software development environment. 

    It feels like this to you, because unlike other normal non-crowdfunded games you know the internal deadlines and milestones. You don't do that for regular games. On top of everything, this game is so popular the goal posts keep changing and the keep getting more funded for more and more. That is an unusual situation. Normally you work until your budget is out, or you ask for an extension or more money, or you have to release. 
    The whole idea with this crowdfunding is that they can make a game a normal publisher would never fund because the scope and ambition of it is out of this world. 


    How this went over your head as you have descended into conspiracy theory land is beyond me. Do you have any idea of what it cost to keep up development for an entire studio, like the size of Star Citizens for one day? Do you have any idea how much licensed middle-ware tools cost? 
    This idea that they are going to be rich over keeping a crowdfunding alive is so incredible stupid. I hope you one day get to work on a 100+ team so you can see the ignorance in your own conclusions. Jesus christ. 


    They would never have done all these things or made all these systems had they planned a bait-and-switch. get real. They've already bled through a lot of their budget. If the game fails or doesn't become a success, the developers and CR won't get anything out of it. 
    They won't get the money from salary? Heck no one even knows how much they are paying them self. If they are giving out bonuses and how much to each person! Then you have some of the background of a few of the people involved aren't your run of the mill gamer's/developers. I know if I put money into this project I would be a little worried that some were involved with money laundering schemes. All that info is out there to research and it would be prudent for any backer to look it up and see who you are trusting with the money.  

    This could have been a great game with a lot to look forward too but I really do not see it ever getting finished. Be interesting to see what the financials look like once they have to open the books. 
    I don't understand this argument.  They've been more open and transparent than any MMO ever that I can think of and yet still get attacked as doing some nefarious with the funding.
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,329
    Brenics said:
     I would be a little worried that some were involved with money laundering schemes. 
    Aaaaahhh, he is AGAIN quoting from the "most trusted source of the internet EVER"  ;-)


    Have fun
  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    Erillion said:
    Brenics said:
     I would be a little worried that some were involved with money laundering schemes. 
    Aaaaahhh, he is AGAIN quoting from the "most trusted source of the internet EVER"  ;-)


    Have fun
    That is as bad as quoting the companies own website that they have total control over as the absolute truth about when they were founded.  Oh wait, you just did that in another thread...
    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,329
    I don't understand this argument.  They've been more open and transparent than any MMO ever that I can think of and yet still get attacked as doing some nefarious with the funding.
    Star Citizen is not keeling over like Alganon and CIG is not handing over its code for content and tools  (including full rights for the CryEngine) like other game companies before them. That angers certain Internet trolls. That led to a lot of attacks recently.


    Have fun
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,329
    Talonsin said:
    That is as bad as quoting the companies own website that they have total control over as the absolute truth about when they were founded.  Oh wait, you just did that in another thread...
    You do know that the founding date can be checked in an official company register, do you not ?


    Have fun
  • SlothnChunkSlothnChunk Member UncommonPosts: 788
    Erillion said:
    Brenics said:
     I would be a little worried that some were involved with money laundering schemes. 
    Aaaaahhh, he is AGAIN quoting from the "most trusted source of the internet EVER"  ;-)


    Have fun
    Until we let someone like Derek Smart review their full 'books' we have no idea if they are involved in money laundering, racketeering, illegal gambling, and alien anal probes.  It's a serious problem!
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,329
    Until we let someone like Derek Smart review their full 'books' we have no idea if they are involved in money laundering, racketeering, illegal gambling, and alien anal probes.  It's a serious problem!
    You forgot the Swedish Mafia !


    Have fun
  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    You know what else is funny how they have hidden The Pledge!

    http://goo.gl/qbWCzw

    Sure looks like they have backed away from it! 
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • pingopingo Member UncommonPosts: 608
    Brenics said:
    They won't get the money from salary? Heck no one even knows how much they are paying them self. If they are giving out bonuses and how much to each person! Then you have some of the background of a few of the people involved aren't your run of the mill gamer's/developers. I know if I put money into this project I would be a little worried that some were involved with money laundering schemes. All that info is out there to research and it would be prudent for any backer to look it up and see who you are trusting with the money.  

    This could have been a great game with a lot to look forward too but I really do not see it ever getting finished. Be interesting to see what the financials look like once they have to open the books. 
    What the hell are you talking about? 


    Use your critical thinking skills and walk down the line of reasoning you just assaulted us with. You don't know how much they get paid, which you use a leeway into suspecting they might be giving each other bonuses?


    When you have over 200+ people working every single day, full time, that cost is massive. Per month operation cost is probably around 200-300,000k. 

    The game hasn't been developed for a long enough time. If it was released soon, I would be more worried. There is a reason why ambitious, cutting edge graphical intensive games take longer than most games. It's because they require a massive amount of work. Final Fantasy XV has been in development close to 10 years now, and is still only now hitting beta stage. There are many examples of games having long development cycles. 


    In the case of Star Citizens, you would not blow so much of the budget, on the engine, on the renderer, on all the voice talent. They have already spend millions on marketing and will spend a lot more. If their objective was to run away with the money they would never have done all the things they have done. 


    You have these thoughts because you are completely ignorant of the costs associated with game development at this size. The reason why publishers put their foot down and force developers to release their games sooner than later is because the cost are massive. 

    Most big AAA games have a budget of 20-40 million. SC has a budget twice that. It means it can run longer. But it also means that they are not cutting corners. The way they do the first person.. it must have cost them an insane amount of money to get that tech in there. the voice acting talent and the amount and the CGI trailer. All those things add up. 
    There is no way any of them are walking away from it as rich men. it's like that all over the industry. Most famous lead game designers are not rich. it's not like being a CEO of a fortune 500 were you give yourself a 100 million dollar bonus. 
  • SlothnChunkSlothnChunk Member UncommonPosts: 788
    Brenics said:
    You know what else is funny how they have hidden The Pledge!

    http://goo.gl/qbWCzw

    Sure looks like they have backed away from it! 
    Look at the dates....November 2012.  So that 'pledge' was created after the initial Kickstarter campaign.  The Kickstarter campaign raised $6.2 million, but have since raised another $90+ million on their website.

    So that initial 'pledge' was only based on roughly 5% of the total amount raised.  It wouldn't make any sense not to update those pledge goals after such a huge increase in funding.  The scale of the project has been augmented considerably since the Kickstarter; so of course the goals should as well.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,004
    What ever happened to all those allegations made by the Escapist?  They appear to have faded away.  The last thing I remember was an invitation to the blog to take a tour.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    What ever happened to all those allegations made by the Escapist?  They appear to have faded away.  The last thing I remember was an invitation to the blog to take a tour.
    Didn't they say that they accepted? Did this tour take place? and if so what were their findings?

    Or was this all tabloid fodder in the first place?

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • Arkade99Arkade99 Member RarePosts: 538
    So Chris had two choices: 1) Stick with original goals and failing to deliver on stretch goal after stretch goals which would anger those who wanted and funded said stretch goals...or.... 2)  Develop towards what the fans wanted and subsequently funded.  This would obviously change the scale/scope of the project requiring more development for a more complicated project than originally planned.
    He had a 3rd option: don't include stretch goals that would increase the scope and cost of the game. But that wouldn't have kept the money rolling in.

    It's interesting that they only needed 500k to make the game, but needed another 92.5 mil for the stretch goals. Seems reasonable.
  • ShaighShaigh Member EpicPosts: 2,152
    laserit said:
    What ever happened to all those allegations made by the Escapist?  They appear to have faded away.  The last thing I remember was an invitation to the blog to take a tour.
    Didn't they say that they accepted? Did this tour take place? and if so what were their findings?

    Or was this all tabloid fodder in the first place?
    Cloud imperium games sent a mail where they were threatening to sue the escapists if they didn't apologize to Ms Gardiner, made a public apology regarding the whole thing and start an investigation regarding the publication.

    The escapist didn't apologize, and CIG have yet to sue the escapists.
    Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
  • SlothnChunkSlothnChunk Member UncommonPosts: 788
    Arkade99 said:
    So Chris had two choices: 1) Stick with original goals and failing to deliver on stretch goal after stretch goals which would anger those who wanted and funded said stretch goals...or.... 2)  Develop towards what the fans wanted and subsequently funded.  This would obviously change the scale/scope of the project requiring more development for a more complicated project than originally planned.
    He had a 3rd option: don't include stretch goals that would increase the scope and cost of the game. But that wouldn't have kept the money rolling in.

    It's interesting that they only needed 500k to make the game, but needed another 92.5 mil for the stretch goals. Seems reasonable.
    Are you serious? Keep the project the same at $500,000 and $100,000,000?

    That's completely absurd.  Just imagine the outrage if they did that.  People would be saying "these guys are crooks and frauds not changing the goals after raising 200x more since their initial Kickstarter goal."
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 8,022
    pingo said:
    When you have over 200+ people working every single day, full time, that cost is massive. Per month operation cost is probably around 200-300,000k. 
    How did you reach that number?

    I think something like 2 millions/month would be closer to truth.
     
This discussion has been closed.