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The Lack of Delivered Content

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  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Erillion said:
    Brenics said:
    No matter what you say they will look at CR as a God even though it was really the people behind him that keep reeling him in to stay on track and make the game(s) are the real God's. He is an idea man with no control on how to stop and create it. 
    Maybe it is inconceivable for you:

    The majority of fans of the Wing Commander / Starlancer / Freelancer etc. games - think that the WHOLE team(s) that created these games are giants of the software industry. They created milestones of their genre(s) and of the whole computer gaming industry (as can be seen from Hall of Fame awards).

    Yes, Chris Roberts is the figurehead. No, he is not the only one that gets the fame and glory in the eyes of the fans (and journalists).

    That is only in your twisted view of things.


    Have fun   (you need it !)
    My Twisted view of things?   https://robertsspaceindustries.com/  Is this not the homepage of Star Citizen?  I don't think I twisted anything here the dude has planted his name and face all over this game.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • RealizerRealizer Member RarePosts: 724
    edited November 2015
    filmoret said:
    Read the wiki people.  The only successful game he made was Wing Commander 1.  The other games his name is attached to are because he was involved a little in their making but he wasn't the actual game designer.  Those 9 games on that list only 3 of them are his titles.  The wing commander series wasn't even his after the first game.  Look I'm not saying he is a bad developer or a bad person.  Just saying his name isn't helping SC because he is unknown to the gaming world.  Just like my name wouldn't help a Baseball game even though I played Baseball for 9 years.
     The difference is big league vs little league, obviously you weren't good enough to become famous, which means your work didn't stand out to anyone. On the flip side people have recognized CR's work enough to give $90 million in advance to his project. I'm not sure how you intend to equate the two but you really can't. 
     
     He's more known, and has a better reputation than many developers who get held on a pedestal on this forum. Take Brad Mcquaid for example, spending money that should have gone to Vangaurd on his own (personal issues) instead. How does that guy have a better reputation than CR who's done nothing but release games people wanted? It's called being blind to facts, so far CR has done nothing to give me any reason to think he would rather have drugs than a working game.

     Seriously you paint this guy in such a bad picture but conveniently dismiss the real bottom feeders in this industry, and it's sad.

    Edit: Not trying to put down Brad's work, just saying he's made poor choices. If he redeems himself with Pantheon I'm all for that, I'm just saying I'm not holding my breath on it.
    Post edited by Realizer on
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Realizer said:
    filmoret said:
    Read the wiki people.  The only successful game he made was Wing Commander 1.  The other games his name is attached to are because he was involved a little in their making but he wasn't the actual game designer.  Those 9 games on that list only 3 of them are his titles.  The wing commander series wasn't even his after the first game.  Look I'm not saying he is a bad developer or a bad person.  Just saying his name isn't helping SC because he is unknown to the gaming world.  Just like my name wouldn't help a Baseball game even though I played Baseball for 9 years.
     The difference is big league vs little league, obviously you weren't good enough to become famous, which means your work didn't stand out to anyone. On the flip side people have recognized CR's work enough to give $90 million in advance to his project. I'm not sure how you intend to equate the two but you really can't. 
     
     He's more known, and has a better reputation than many developers who get held on a pedestal on this forum. Take Brad Mcquaid for example, spending money that should have gone to Vangaurd on his own cocaine addiction instead. How does that guy have a better reputation than CR who's done nothing but release games people wanted? It's called being blind to facts, so far CR has done nothing to give me any reason to think he would rather have drugs than a working game.

     Seriously you paint this guy in such a bad picture but conveniently dismiss the real bottom feeders in this industry, and it's sad.

    Edit: Not trying to put down Brad's work, just saying he's made poor choices. If he redeems himself with Pantheon I'm all for that, I'm just saying I'm not holding my breath on it.
    EH?  You been reading my posts?  Doesn't sound like it.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • RealizerRealizer Member RarePosts: 724
    filmoret said:
    Realizer said:
    filmoret said:
    Read the wiki people.  The only successful game he made was Wing Commander 1.  The other games his name is attached to are because he was involved a little in their making but he wasn't the actual game designer.  Those 9 games on that list only 3 of them are his titles.  The wing commander series wasn't even his after the first game.  Look I'm not saying he is a bad developer or a bad person.  Just saying his name isn't helping SC because he is unknown to the gaming world.  Just like my name wouldn't help a Baseball game even though I played Baseball for 9 years.
     The difference is big league vs little league, obviously you weren't good enough to become famous, which means your work didn't stand out to anyone. On the flip side people have recognized CR's work enough to give $90 million in advance to his project. I'm not sure how you intend to equate the two but you really can't. 
     
     He's more known, and has a better reputation than many developers who get held on a pedestal on this forum. Take Brad Mcquaid for example, spending money that should have gone to Vangaurd on his own cocaine addiction instead. How does that guy have a better reputation than CR who's done nothing but release games people wanted? It's called being blind to facts, so far CR has done nothing to give me any reason to think he would rather have drugs than a working game.

     Seriously you paint this guy in such a bad picture but conveniently dismiss the real bottom feeders in this industry, and it's sad.

    Edit: Not trying to put down Brad's work, just saying he's made poor choices. If he redeems himself with Pantheon I'm all for that, I'm just saying I'm not holding my breath on it.
    EH?  You been reading my posts?  Doesn't sound like it.
     Nice deflection, couldn't argue the point?
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Realizer said:
    filmoret said:
    Read the wiki people.  The only successful game he made was Wing Commander 1.  The other games his name is attached to are because he was involved a little in their making but he wasn't the actual game designer.  Those 9 games on that list only 3 of them are his titles.  The wing commander series wasn't even his after the first game.  Look I'm not saying he is a bad developer or a bad person.  Just saying his name isn't helping SC because he is unknown to the gaming world.  Just like my name wouldn't help a Baseball game even though I played Baseball for 9 years.
     The difference is big league vs little league, obviously you weren't good enough to become famous, which means your work didn't stand out to anyone. On the flip side people have recognized CR's work enough to give $90 million in advance to his project. I'm not sure how you intend to equate the two but you really can't. 
     
     He's more known, and has a better reputation than many developers who get held on a pedestal on this forum. Take Brad Mcquaid for example, spending money that should have gone to Vangaurd on his own cocaine addiction instead. How does that guy have a better reputation than CR who's done nothing but release games people wanted? It's called being blind to facts, so far CR has done nothing to give me any reason to think he would rather have drugs than a working game.

     Seriously you paint this guy in such a bad picture but conveniently dismiss the real bottom feeders in this industry, and it's sad.

    Edit: Not trying to put down Brad's work, just saying he's made poor choices. If he redeems himself with Pantheon I'm all for that, I'm just saying I'm not holding my breath on it.
    Too be fair Chris has made plenty of poor choices when it involves his career as well. Telling someone they are blind to the facts when your post has done the same thing is a little hypocritical.

    I wouldn't say Brad is more popular that Chris, it just depends on what su forum you happen to be in that has one or the other as the more popular figure lol
  • JohnxboyJohnxboy Member UncommonPosts: 104
    He already spent the money and went to space, and is currently building his very own space station, to hide out from you guys.


    Fuck that's awesome. I wish I had thought of that.
  • RealizerRealizer Member RarePosts: 724
    Kefo said:

    Too be fair Chris has made plenty of poor choices when it involves his career as well. Telling someone they are blind to the facts when your post has done the same thing is a little hypocritical.

    I wouldn't say Brad is more popular that Chris, it just depends on what su forum you happen to be in that has one or the other as the more popular figure lol
     I'm not blind to the facts I've been following all these devs, and their games since 1991. Chris hasn't done anything in his career to sway me into thinking he's a bad guy, or a bad dev. Brad is another story, same with DSmart.  Still I don't see anyone pointing this out in pantheon threads, all I see are a bunch of haters bashing Roberts for no real reason. 
  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    Realizer said:
    Kefo said:

    Too be fair Chris has made plenty of poor choices when it involves his career as well. Telling someone they are blind to the facts when your post has done the same thing is a little hypocritical.

    I wouldn't say Brad is more popular that Chris, it just depends on what su forum you happen to be in that has one or the other as the more popular figure lol
     I'm not blind to the facts I've been following all these devs, and their games since 1991. Chris hasn't done anything in his career to sway me into thinking he's a bad guy, or a bad dev. Brad is another story, same with DSmart.  Still I don't see anyone pointing this out in pantheon threads, all I see are a bunch of haters bashing Roberts for no real reason. 
    People, like me, have pointed out in multiple threads that Brad McQuaid, among other things, took $45k of money donated to make pantheon and used it for "personal expenses" and later apologized for doing it (so yeah, he did it).

    However, to mention such things, even in threads about McQuaid's company wanting people to donate more money, and such comments get the old Mod Edit.

    So people do make legit criticisms here, but often as not, they are deleted by the mods.


  • TheYear1500TheYear1500 Member UncommonPosts: 531
    Erillion said:
    Talonsin said:
    Erillion said:

           <<<<Stuff>>>>

    Some of us original backers want the game we were promised in the time frame promised.  We are now a year past the original projected release date given to us by Chris Roberts himself and yet here we are with nothing but a tech demo to show for it.  We were told in 2013 that stretch goals would NOT delay the release and then suddenly in 2015 we are told the game has grown due to stretch goals. 

    Now over the last year we hear over and over again about inappropriate spending and mismanagement of the company.  Anyone who backed this project and did not put blinders on and who has done some research into this issue would have some concerns. 

    Get a refund.

    Get lo..!


    Have fun
    LOL good luck with that.  It takes weeks to get CIG to answer emails, and then they don't give you full refunds.  
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Realizer said:
    Kefo said:

    Too be fair Chris has made plenty of poor choices when it involves his career as well. Telling someone they are blind to the facts when your post has done the same thing is a little hypocritical.

    I wouldn't say Brad is more popular that Chris, it just depends on what su forum you happen to be in that has one or the other as the more popular figure lol
     I'm not blind to the facts I've been following all these devs, and their games since 1991. Chris hasn't done anything in his career to sway me into thinking he's a bad guy, or a bad dev. Brad is another story, same with DSmart.  Still I don't see anyone pointing this out in pantheon threads, all I see are a bunch of haters bashing Roberts for no real reason. 


    If you had read my posts instead of going crazy then you would have seen that the only thing I have been trying to say is Chris Roberts was basically unknown until star citizen.  That is all I have been trying to say and somehow you have interpreted it as me saying he's a loser who steals and cheats.  Like I said you have not read my posts and put words in my mouth then expect me to debate the argument going on in your head that isn't happening on these forums. 

    As for Brad who https://pantheonmmo.com/#section5  doesn't include his name for the main website of the game he is creating.  Doesn't have his face plastered all over the game using it to make himself known.  I'm not saying Brad is a better person i'm just saying he doesn't appear to have his huge head blocking the view of his game.

    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    filmoret said:
    Realizer said:
    Kefo said:

    Too be fair Chris has made plenty of poor choices when it involves his career as well. Telling someone they are blind to the facts when your post has done the same thing is a little hypocritical.

    I wouldn't say Brad is more popular that Chris, it just depends on what su forum you happen to be in that has one or the other as the more popular figure lol
     I'm not blind to the facts I've been following all these devs, and their games since 1991. Chris hasn't done anything in his career to sway me into thinking he's a bad guy, or a bad dev. Brad is another story, same with DSmart.  Still I don't see anyone pointing this out in pantheon threads, all I see are a bunch of haters bashing Roberts for no real reason. 


    If you had read my posts instead of going crazy then you would have seen that the only thing I have been trying to say is Chris Roberts was basically unknown until star citizen.  That is all I have been trying to say and somehow you have interpreted it as me saying he's a loser who steals and cheats.  Like I said you have not read my posts and put words in my mouth then expect me to debate the argument going on in your head that isn't happening on these forums. 

    As for Brad who https://pantheonmmo.com/#section5  doesn't include his name for the main website of the game he is creating.  Doesn't have his face plastered all over the game using it to make himself known.  I'm not saying Brad is a better person i'm just saying he doesn't appear to have his huge head blocking the view of his game.


    Well if all you're saying is that Chris Roberts is basically unknown, then you're dead wrong. He's actually very well known within the space sim genre. Whether or not he feels the need to fuel his ego by plastering his name all over SC and the parent company is another issue entirely. I've heard plenty of speculation about his ego and there's plenty of evidence to support him feeding that ego. He's certainly not doing it to make himself well known, though. 

    I'll liken this to some Tweets I read a while back. There was a song that came out with Kayne West, Rihanna, and Paul McCartney. Fans started tweeting about how Kayne was going to make this "Paul McCartney" guy so famous. I literally LOL'd when I initially read the story. 

    In the end, it's ok if you're not a fan of the genre, so you may not know the people who are icons within the genre, but if you're going to try to tell me that you love space flight sims and you've never heard of Chris Roberts, then I would find that very hard to believe. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,007
    CrazKanuk said:
    filmoret said:
    Realizer said:
    Kefo said:

    Too be fair Chris has made plenty of poor choices when it involves his career as well. Telling someone they are blind to the facts when your post has done the same thing is a little hypocritical.

    I wouldn't say Brad is more popular that Chris, it just depends on what su forum you happen to be in that has one or the other as the more popular figure lol
     I'm not blind to the facts I've been following all these devs, and their games since 1991. Chris hasn't done anything in his career to sway me into thinking he's a bad guy, or a bad dev. Brad is another story, same with DSmart.  Still I don't see anyone pointing this out in pantheon threads, all I see are a bunch of haters bashing Roberts for no real reason. 


    If you had read my posts instead of going crazy then you would have seen that the only thing I have been trying to say is Chris Roberts was basically unknown until star citizen.  That is all I have been trying to say and somehow you have interpreted it as me saying he's a loser who steals and cheats.  Like I said you have not read my posts and put words in my mouth then expect me to debate the argument going on in your head that isn't happening on these forums. 

    As for Brad who https://pantheonmmo.com/#section5  doesn't include his name for the main website of the game he is creating.  Doesn't have his face plastered all over the game using it to make himself known.  I'm not saying Brad is a better person i'm just saying he doesn't appear to have his huge head blocking the view of his game.


    Well if all you're saying is that Chris Roberts is basically unknown, then you're dead wrong. He's actually very well known within the space sim genre. Whether or not he feels the need to fuel his ego by plastering his name all over SC and the parent company is another issue entirely. I've heard plenty of speculation about his ego and there's plenty of evidence to support him feeding that ego. He's certainly not doing it to make himself well known, though. 

    I'll liken this to some Tweets I read a while back. There was a song that came out with Kayne West, Rihanna, and Paul McCartney. Fans started tweeting about how Kayne was going to make this "Paul McCartney" guy so famous. I literally LOL'd when I initially read the story. 

    In the end, it's ok if you're not a fan of the genre, so you may not know the people who are icons within the genre, but if you're going to try to tell me that you love space flight sims and you've never heard of Chris Roberts, then I would find that very hard to believe. 
    Just wanted to offer myself as a living counterexample:

    I had never heard of Chris Roberts prior to November 2012, although I thought The Punisher, The Jacket, and Lord of War were all good movies.

    I matriculated to the 'space sim' genre by way of Rebel Assault, then X-Wing, then Escape Velocity and its sequels, the original of which I spent many hundreds of hours modding using 1990s 3D modeling software (rendering a set of sprites for a single new ship would take, like, an entire day), designing ships, planets, missions, etc., then... college during most of which serious gaming was a non-option, and afterwards... the game in my signature.

    So... although I had heard of Wing Commander but never played it, I was very much a fan of the genre.  The name Chris Roberts certainly didn't mean anything to me.  It may have had something to do with growing up using just a Macintosh.

    Right now... it looks like a beautiful game if (and it certainly feels weird critiquing an experience that has yet to be released) a little cinematic-focused, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.  I had to cringe slightly at the Hornet Commercial; it was ostensibly made by someone that hadn't ever experienced a virtual Newtonian 6DoF dogfight (before any smart aleck says anything about 'turreting', this is not always the case for this type of model: it takes time for strategies to develop and mastery of various weaponry to emerge... nowhere in here have I experienced that which others are calling 'turreting').

    My only real muse is I may have outgrown gaming by the time this title is released.  I can see myself saying 'yeah, that looks awesome, but... I just don't have time for it.'  It's funny how values and the way leisure time is perceived can change.  I thought I would be the type that would always enthusiastically enjoy video games.  I'm sure I still will enjoy them now and then, but since becoming a father... canoeing in the Everglades with my family just sounds way cooler, and the type of thing that I would make time for.

    'Blowing up spaceships'... the virtual economy, and all that... yeah it's great... but I've already invested so much time into a different virtual world just like that, I'm not sure I want to venture down another Rabbit Hole 2.0, if that's what this is.  I only have so many thousands of hours of gaming in me (*chuckle*).

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • RealizerRealizer Member RarePosts: 724
    filmoret said:
    Realizer said:
    Kefo said:

    Too be fair Chris has made plenty of poor choices when it involves his career as well. Telling someone they are blind to the facts when your post has done the same thing is a little hypocritical.

    I wouldn't say Brad is more popular that Chris, it just depends on what su forum you happen to be in that has one or the other as the more popular figure lol
     I'm not blind to the facts I've been following all these devs, and their games since 1991. Chris hasn't done anything in his career to sway me into thinking he's a bad guy, or a bad dev. Brad is another story, same with DSmart.  Still I don't see anyone pointing this out in pantheon threads, all I see are a bunch of haters bashing Roberts for no real reason. 


    If you had read my posts instead of going crazy then you would have seen that the only thing I have been trying to say is Chris Roberts was basically unknown until star citizen.  That is all I have been trying to say and somehow you have interpreted it as me saying he's a loser who steals and cheats.  Like I said you have not read my posts and put words in my mouth then expect me to debate the argument going on in your head that isn't happening on these forums. 

    As for Brad who https://pantheonmmo.com/#section5  doesn't include his name for the main website of the game he is creating.  Doesn't have his face plastered all over the game using it to make himself known.  I'm not saying Brad is a better person i'm just saying he doesn't appear to have his huge head blocking the view of his game.

     You think I don't read your posts, but I do because they are hilarious and misinformed. Chris had a name for himself way longer than you've probably been playing pc games. Also I'm not going crazy, I'm just telling it how it is. You might not be old enough to have played/remembered games like Wing Commander, but it doesn't mean that I don't remember them along with the other 1 million people that played it. It was the Crisis of it's time with people literally scrambling to get that extra 8 mb of ram to run the game better when it came out ect. They were fun times. 

     
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,868

    Too bad my internet  is being sucky right now.  (Thanks, Time Warner!)   Chris Roberts has carefully manicured his image, putting himself out as a 'Great Genious' game designer.  He's not.  Talked to a lot of people who worked with him in the past, and they neither like, nor respect him.


    But saying he was unknown (especially in Space Gaming) is just wrong.   He's worked hard at building his undeserved reputation.   (This despite him having only 1/3 of the designer credit on Wing Commander, and sharing producer credit with Warren Spector.)

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • RealizerRealizer Member RarePosts: 724

    Too bad my internet  is being sucky right now.  (Thanks, Time Warner!)   Chris Roberts has carefully manicured his image, putting himself out as a 'Great Genious' game designer.  He's not.  Talked to a lot of people who worked with him in the past, and they neither like, nor respect him.


    But saying he was unknown (especially in Space Gaming) is just wrong.   He's worked hard at building his undeserved reputation.   (This despite him having only 1/3 of the designer credit on Wing Commander, and sharing producer credit with Warren Spector.)

     That happens not everyone likes their boss, fans still got enjoyable experiences. That's what matters in the end.  Unfortunately the gaming industry isn't very fun for the average employee, that's something that needs to change. It happens in all forms of work though if we are being truly honest, grunt workers usually aren't the ones who are happy and prospering. Management is only happy if they think someone else won't pay them more. 

     For me it seems like Roberts is an (all about the project) kind of guy. You're either on board with him and his vision for a good playing experience, or you can find the door. As a backer this is the type of person/project I want my money going to. Because I know Roberts doesn't care about anything other than the game he's making right now. He's obsessive, and that makes for a good creative leader. Same goes for people like George Lucas, or a Steve Jobs type of person.
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Member RarePosts: 1,247
    Realizer said:

    Too bad my internet  is being sucky right now.  (Thanks, Time Warner!)   Chris Roberts has carefully manicured his image, putting himself out as a 'Great Genious' game designer.  He's not.  Talked to a lot of people who worked with him in the past, and they neither like, nor respect him.


    But saying he was unknown (especially in Space Gaming) is just wrong.   He's worked hard at building his undeserved reputation.   (This despite him having only 1/3 of the designer credit on Wing Commander, and sharing producer credit with Warren Spector.)

     That happens not everyone likes their boss, fans still got enjoyable experiences. That's what matters in the end.  Unfortunately the gaming industry isn't very fun for the average employee, that's something that needs to change. It happens in all forms of work though if we are being truly honest, grunt workers usually aren't the ones who are happy and prospering. Management is only happy if they think someone else won't pay them more. 

     For me it seems like Roberts is an (all about the project) kind of guy. You're either on board with him and his vision for a good playing experience, or you can find the door. As a backer this is the type of person/project I want my money going to. Because I know Roberts doesn't care about anything other than the game he's making right now. He's obsessive, and that makes for a good creative leader. Same goes for people like George Lucas, or a Steve Jobs type of person.
    Same goes for people like George Lucas, or a Steve Jobs type of person.

    What products have they not delivered that would have earned them such a high pedestal?

    We are definitely in the realm of delusion now....feet firmly planted and taken root.
  • RealizerRealizer Member RarePosts: 724
    Realizer said:

    Too bad my internet  is being sucky right now.  (Thanks, Time Warner!)   Chris Roberts has carefully manicured his image, putting himself out as a 'Great Genious' game designer.  He's not.  Talked to a lot of people who worked with him in the past, and they neither like, nor respect him.


    But saying he was unknown (especially in Space Gaming) is just wrong.   He's worked hard at building his undeserved reputation.   (This despite him having only 1/3 of the designer credit on Wing Commander, and sharing producer credit with Warren Spector.)

     That happens not everyone likes their boss, fans still got enjoyable experiences. That's what matters in the end.  Unfortunately the gaming industry isn't very fun for the average employee, that's something that needs to change. It happens in all forms of work though if we are being truly honest, grunt workers usually aren't the ones who are happy and prospering. Management is only happy if they think someone else won't pay them more. 

     For me it seems like Roberts is an (all about the project) kind of guy. You're either on board with him and his vision for a good playing experience, or you can find the door. As a backer this is the type of person/project I want my money going to. Because I know Roberts doesn't care about anything other than the game he's making right now. He's obsessive, and that makes for a good creative leader. Same goes for people like George Lucas, or a Steve Jobs type of person.
    Same goes for people like George Lucas, or a Steve Jobs type of person.

    What products have they not delivered that would have earned them such a high pedestal?

    We are definitely in the realm of delusion now....feet firmly planted and taken root.
    Comparisons in personality, a little too complex for you?
  • HeretiqueHeretique Member RarePosts: 1,511
    Everything is speculation until the game is actually released as a whole. But I understand how some people view it.

    John Romero, pretty much a giant that had hands with Doom, Commander Keen, Hexen, etc etc.

    Then he made Daikatana...

    ----

    We could possibly be looking at another Daikatana. Think that ushers some sympathy to the naysayers. Nobody wants another Daikatana, no one wanted the first one.



    I think I scared myself.

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    CrazKanuk said:
    filmoret said:
    Realizer said:
    Kefo said:

    Too be fair Chris has made plenty of poor choices when it involves his career as well. Telling someone they are blind to the facts when your post has done the same thing is a little hypocritical.

    I wouldn't say Brad is more popular that Chris, it just depends on what su forum you happen to be in that has one or the other as the more popular figure lol
     I'm not blind to the facts I've been following all these devs, and their games since 1991. Chris hasn't done anything in his career to sway me into thinking he's a bad guy, or a bad dev. Brad is another story, same with DSmart.  Still I don't see anyone pointing this out in pantheon threads, all I see are a bunch of haters bashing Roberts for no real reason. 


    If you had read my posts instead of going crazy then you would have seen that the only thing I have been trying to say is Chris Roberts was basically unknown until star citizen.  That is all I have been trying to say and somehow you have interpreted it as me saying he's a loser who steals and cheats.  Like I said you have not read my posts and put words in my mouth then expect me to debate the argument going on in your head that isn't happening on these forums. 

    As for Brad who https://pantheonmmo.com/#section5  doesn't include his name for the main website of the game he is creating.  Doesn't have his face plastered all over the game using it to make himself known.  I'm not saying Brad is a better person i'm just saying he doesn't appear to have his huge head blocking the view of his game.


    Well if all you're saying is that Chris Roberts is basically unknown, then you're dead wrong. He's actually very well known within the space sim genre. Whether or not he feels the need to fuel his ego by plastering his name all over SC and the parent company is another issue entirely. I've heard plenty of speculation about his ego and there's plenty of evidence to support him feeding that ego. He's certainly not doing it to make himself well known, though. 

    I'll liken this to some Tweets I read a while back. There was a song that came out with Kayne West, Rihanna, and Paul McCartney. Fans started tweeting about how Kayne was going to make this "Paul McCartney" guy so famous. I literally LOL'd when I initially read the story. 

    In the end, it's ok if you're not a fan of the genre, so you may not know the people who are icons within the genre, but if you're going to try to tell me that you love space flight sims and you've never heard of Chris Roberts, then I would find that very hard to believe. 
    Just wanted to offer myself as a living counterexample:

    I had never heard of Chris Roberts prior to November 2012, although I thought The Punisher, The Jacket, and Lord of War were all good movies.

    I matriculated to the 'space sim' genre by way of Rebel Assault, then X-Wing, then Escape Velocity and its sequels, the original of which I spent many hundreds of hours modding using 1990s 3D modeling software (rendering a set of sprites for a single new ship would take, like, an entire day), designing ships, planets, missions, etc., then... college during most of which serious gaming was a non-option, and afterwards... the game in my signature.

    So... although I had heard of Wing Commander but never played it, I was very much a fan of the genre.  The name Chris Roberts certainly didn't mean anything to me.  It may have had something to do with growing up using just a Macintosh.

    Right now... it looks like a beautiful game if (and it certainly feels weird critiquing an experience that has yet to be released) a little cinematic-focused, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.  I had to cringe slightly at the Hornet Commercial; it was ostensibly made by someone that hadn't ever experienced a virtual Newtonian 6DoF dogfight (before any smart aleck says anything about 'turreting', this is not always the case for this type of model: it takes time for strategies to develop and mastery of various weaponry to emerge... nowhere in here have I experienced that which others are calling 'turreting').

    My only real muse is I may have outgrown gaming by the time this title is released.  I can see myself saying 'yeah, that looks awesome, but... I just don't have time for it.'  It's funny how values and the way leisure time is perceived can change.  I thought I would be the type that would always enthusiastically enjoy video games.  I'm sure I still will enjoy them now and then, but since becoming a father... canoeing in the Everglades with my family just sounds way cooler, and the type of thing that I would make time for.

    'Blowing up spaceships'... the virtual economy, and all that... yeah it's great... but I've already invested so much time into a different virtual world just like that, I'm not sure I want to venture down another Rabbit Hole 2.0, if that's what this is.  I only have so many thousands of hours of gaming in me (*chuckle*).

    First of all, I'm sorry you had to grow up using a Mac. Can't say the same today since they've at least improved to the point of something usable. Back in the 90s though..... just sorry. My dad actually owned a publishing company and I still remember the printer the size of a compact car.

    Hail brother!! I'm a recovering XvT addict. I played it almost exclusively during college. I played competitively at the time (which makes all of my arguments more relevant that yours) on Microsoft's Gaming Zone. I actually found my copy of XvT and XWA a couple weeks back, along with my SW Pres Pro. I was so excited to show them to my wife. She rolled her eyes and said, "Yay!..." I could tell she was really excited. 

    As far as knowing CR goes, until 2012 I didn't know he produced movies of questionable quality :) I'm not trying to vilify anyone for not knowing who CR is, but saying that CR was an unknown before 2012 is a bit ignorant. I mean it's not like he's Brad Pitt or something, but he's arguably the most well known name in the space sim genre, which is kind of like arguing about who the most well-known physicist is, right? At the same time, if you (not you specifically) did a little research instead of assuming that you know everything, then you might actually make an intelligent argument (again, not you specifically, but above). 


    Crazkanuk

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    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
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  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    Heretique said:

    John Romero, pretty much a giant that had hands with Doom, Commander Keen, Hexen, etc etc.

    Then he made Daikatana...
    NNNOOOOOoooooo!!!!!  Now you did it.  You activated the Romero curse on Star Citizen. 

    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Chris Roberts was so well known he didn't even have a wiki until 2006.  So 1 million people out of the 6 billion people on this planet makes a person known?  Now he has over 30 million people who know his name and its not because of wing commander.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    Made perfect sense to me. Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Brenics said:
    Made perfect sense to me. Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
    Makes sense in what way? So you believe that all private companies should open their books to the public? Or just CIG, because people on the Internet said they're cheats? If everyone, great, people are more than welcome to white knight for complete transparency until the cows come home. In the end, it won't happen, nor should it. 

    Why? Easy, there's a very broad perspective on the Internet. Some believe that paying someone moving expenses, or giving someone a company car to sign with you is excessive. Some believe paid lunches and cafeterias are excessive. Me? Well if you're hiring proven talent, if I had to pay for a boob job to sweeten the deal (that could be for a man or woman, btw) then I'd do it. 

    On the second point, why do you not think that they are keeping financials? Why is it that you don't think they are being accountable? Or that they don't have a finance department? Do a quick search on Linkedin and you might be surprised to find that they actually have a finance deparmtnet. What?!? I know right? So why are people assuming that they don't have any financial accountability? They'd have the same as anyone else. 

    Essentially, there's been nothing provided which amounts to anything. In a matter of a couple minutes I was able to find that they have people responsible for finances. Also, I make the assumption that those people are responsible, the same way that someone would be in any other organization. So why hold them to a different standard? If you were to tell me that 80% of privately-held companies open their books to the public for scrutiny, then I'd say, "Yes, you're right, they should do that." However, that's simply not the case. I'd be surprised if 1% of privately half companies opened their books to the public. So, yes, that's an asinine request. Yes, I compared it to someone walking into McDonald's and ordering a burger and asking to see their books. That's essentially what he's talking about. He feels that being a customer or backer entitles him to see the books for the company, yet it doesn't. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Realizer said:
    filmoret said:
    Realizer said:
    Kefo said:

    Too be fair Chris has made plenty of poor choices when it involves his career as well. Telling someone they are blind to the facts when your post has done the same thing is a little hypocritical.

    I wouldn't say Brad is more popular that Chris, it just depends on what su forum you happen to be in that has one or the other as the more popular figure lol
     I'm not blind to the facts I've been following all these devs, and their games since 1991. Chris hasn't done anything in his career to sway me into thinking he's a bad guy, or a bad dev. Brad is another story, same with DSmart.  Still I don't see anyone pointing this out in pantheon threads, all I see are a bunch of haters bashing Roberts for no real reason. 


    If you had read my posts instead of going crazy then you would have seen that the only thing I have been trying to say is Chris Roberts was basically unknown until star citizen.  That is all I have been trying to say and somehow you have interpreted it as me saying he's a loser who steals and cheats.  Like I said you have not read my posts and put words in my mouth then expect me to debate the argument going on in your head that isn't happening on these forums. 

    As for Brad who https://pantheonmmo.com/#section5  doesn't include his name for the main website of the game he is creating.  Doesn't have his face plastered all over the game using it to make himself known.  I'm not saying Brad is a better person i'm just saying he doesn't appear to have his huge head blocking the view of his game.

     You think I don't read your posts, but I do because they are hilarious and misinformed. Chris had a name for himself way longer than you've probably been playing pc games. Also I'm not going crazy, I'm just telling it how it is. You might not be old enough to have played/remembered games like Wing Commander, but it doesn't mean that I don't remember them along with the other 1 million people that played it. It was the Crisis of it's time with people literally scrambling to get that extra 8 mb of ram to run the game better when it came out ect. They were fun times. 

     
    computers didn't have 8mb of ram when Wing Commander came out.  Heck they didn't even have when WC 2 came out either.  They barely had it when WC3 launched and it probably cost about 100$ a mb.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,323
    Lol...

    Not keeping financials is a great way to quickly find yourself with a nice extended vacation at the Crowbar Hotel.

    Don't fuck with a government and their taxes collectors, they don't take too kindly to it.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

This discussion has been closed.