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I'm aggravated with the selection, none of these new MMOs really do anything new.

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  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 18,474
    Abuz0r said:
    DMKano said:
    OP - you confuse abundance with lack


    Ok, inside that fridge there is fruit, turkey, eggs, and various other things to eat.  In the MMORPG selection of today there is yellow quest exclamation points, that's it.  I'm complaining about a lack of innovation, not a lack of games.  I mean, I can download hero engine and start a kickstarter tomorrow, but you're going to end up with the same old drivel.

    You might need to move some popular things in front to fridge to find what you are looking for. It is there you just need to look more.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 29,089
    edited November 2015
    DMKano said:
    Abuz0r said:
    DMKano said:
    OP - you confuse abundance with lack


    Ok, inside that fridge there is fruit, turkey, eggs, and various other things to eat.  In the MMORPG selection of today there is yellow quest exclamation points, that's it.  I'm complaining about a lack of innovation, not a lack of games.  I mean, I can download hero engine and start a kickstarter tomorrow, but you're going to end up with the same old drivel.

    You might need to move some popular things in front to fridge to find what you are looking for. It is there you just need to look more.
    edit: my first thought was of the old, moldy cheese in the back.
     
    Well no, what I'm looking for is "DAOC 2" and that likely will never exist, at least as how I would envision it.

    Fortunately I enjoy one MMORPG, and it's enough for now.
    Post edited by Kyleran on

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, back in EVE until then

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  • psiicpsiic Member RarePosts: 1,542
    Say it again they are all turds dipped in glue and rolled in glitter.  Check out Asta when it goes into beta in a few days its the best of a bad lot imo.

  • GitmixGitmix Member UncommonPosts: 600
    Abuz0r said:
     Sure... action combat, non-tab targeting, dungeon finder, blah blah blah.

    I feel like every new game tries to pile on to the way the last game helped you not have to play the game.  But in the end I haven't seen anything that's really astonishing in about 8 years.  Developers have been derailed by trying to make game npcs and characters look and act like humans, seeing how much heat they can make your video card produce, but no real new gameplay.

    I guess Wow came out with so many features in such a condensed place, these developers think that it's all been done, and they just have to rearrange it in a better way.  I'm tired of seeing the same gameplay and features rearranged around a different theme with slightly different mechanics.  That's basically what we've had.  Players sign up, the nostalgia isn't there, they move on.  Big game, dead game, big game, dead game.  Every game is the best game until it releases then it's the worst game.  It's like the back-up quarterback on the football team, it's everyones favorite until he gets put out to play.

    Can we get something new?  Can some developer somewhere find an actual new way to have fun? Like something I haven't seen or sort of seen before?  I know u got to make money, but don't make the entire game a skin for an item mall, that's the worst thing.

    I'm so bored I'm not even downloading these new games anymore.  They're all re-skins with some random new feature.
    It's because our civilization is coming to an end. To make good art (and by extension , good entertainment) , artists and creators need to be carried by the hope of a better tomorrow. They need to feel like their work matters and will help shape the future.
    Today, whether we admit it or not, we all know western civilization is going down the drain - maybe even humanity as a whole. Hope for a better future is mostly gone.
    It's not just MMOs that have been getting worse over the years, it's the entire art/entertainment industry that just no longer has anything relevant to say.

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 18,474
    Scambug said:
    Abuz0r said:
     Sure... action combat, non-tab targeting, dungeon finder, blah blah blah.

    I feel like every new game tries to pile on to the way the last game helped you not have to play the game.  But in the end I haven't seen anything that's really astonishing in about 8 years.  Developers have been derailed by trying to make game npcs and characters look and act like humans, seeing how much heat they can make your video card produce, but no real new gameplay.

    I guess Wow came out with so many features in such a condensed place, these developers think that it's all been done, and they just have to rearrange it in a better way.  I'm tired of seeing the same gameplay and features rearranged around a different theme with slightly different mechanics.  That's basically what we've had.  Players sign up, the nostalgia isn't there, they move on.  Big game, dead game, big game, dead game.  Every game is the best game until it releases then it's the worst game.  It's like the back-up quarterback on the football team, it's everyones favorite until he gets put out to play.

    Can we get something new?  Can some developer somewhere find an actual new way to have fun? Like something I haven't seen or sort of seen before?  I know u got to make money, but don't make the entire game a skin for an item mall, that's the worst thing.

    I'm so bored I'm not even downloading these new games anymore.  They're all re-skins with some random new feature.
    It's because our civilization is coming to an end. To make good art (and by extension , good entertainment) , artists and creators need to be carried by the hope of a better tomorrow. They need to feel like their work matters and will help shape the future.
    Today, whether we admit it or not, we all know western civilization is going down the drain - maybe even humanity as a whole. Hope for a better future is mostly gone.
    It's not just MMOs that have been getting worse over the years, it's the entire art/entertainment industry that just no longer has anything relevant to say.


    Pessimism is only one of the many viewpoints. 

    What people see in the world is often a projection of their own mental state.

    The world is what you make it, just like games are.


  • CecropiaCecropia Member UncommonPosts: 3,972
    DMKano said:
    Scambug said:
    It's because our civilization is coming to an end. To make good art (and by extension , good entertainment) , artists and creators need to be carried by the hope of a better tomorrow. They need to feel like their work matters and will help shape the future.
    Today, whether we admit it or not, we all know western civilization is going down the drain - maybe even humanity as a whole. Hope for a better future is mostly gone.
    It's not just MMOs that have been getting worse over the years, it's the entire art/entertainment industry that just no longer has anything relevant to say.


    Pessimism is only one of the many viewpoints. 

    What people see in the world is often a projection of their own mental state.

    The world is what you make it, just like games are.


    Have you seriously not noticed the changes within entertainment in general throughout the last 10+ years? The music industry is a glaring example. The introduction of MP3's helped bring it down in a big way. I do not believe age is displayed in member profiles on the new forums but IIRC you are in your forties (sorry if I'm wrong), so you should have observed all of this quite clearly. 

    I'm not saying every form of entertainment is in the shits atm, but there are obvious issues with a large portion of it largely due to technological changes among other factors.

    Hmm. Thought this was pretty much common knowledge.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 4,813
    Abuz0r said:
    DMKano said:
    OP - you confuse abundance with lack


    Ok, inside that fridge there is fruit, turkey, eggs, and various other things to eat.  In the MMORPG selection of today there is yellow quest exclamation points, that's it.  I'm complaining about a lack of innovation, not a lack of games.  I mean, I can download hero engine and start a kickstarter tomorrow, but you're going to end up with the same old drivel.

    A carrot is still a carrot doesn't mean it isn't worthy.


    However as far as "innovation" goes
    a) business models have evolved (for better or for worse in peoples opinions)
    b) use of tech has evolved e.g. megaservers (for better of for worse in peoples opinions)
    c) those games that have had "reasonable certainty" of reaching "large markets" have evolved: Titanfall, Destiny, SW BF ... hybrids if you like; even a game like CK2 has added an rp element. Niche games can also innovate (and sometimes become huge). The "middle ground though - "medium sales" - is "more likely" to play safe.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 24,639
    Cecropia said:

    Have you seriously not noticed the changes within entertainment in general throughout the last 10+ years? The music industry is a glaring example. The introduction of MP3's helped bring it down in a big way. 

    Well, now wait a minute, mp3's might have put a cramp in the music industry but some could argue that it emancipated the smaller musician. You no longer need a large label to put out an album and you can reach many more people because of the internet.

    So the music industry might have become a slightly more even field.

    I realize that takes the topic "off topic" in some ways but perhaps it puts things in a different perspective.

    Of course, with AAA games you need money but maybe some of these smaller developers will develop games that will do well enough that larger companies might be willing to refocus their efforts on other types of games.



  • BitripBitrip Member UncommonPosts: 279
    MMORPGs suck now because of the players, not the developers. There is little to no humanity in a game's population. Back in the day guilds were literal online families. Now they are just a way to get bonus stats. 

    image
    Now, which one of you will adorn me today?

  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member EpicPosts: 4,605
    I almost feel bad for the OP. Too focused on trying to find something that he/she hasn't seen, so much so that can't even find something that a company does well. Better off playing single player games. Sadly, if you compare the MMO market to what it was 10-15 years ago, you'll see that the industry is more about money and less about features. However, if you are that desperate to find something in this industry, you have to settle for what is being done well and gouges you the least since the water is overflowing the glass so to speak. Too much competition is killing the industry in my opinion, but still some companies dont cave completely under the pressure. We'll probably never see the "perfect" game that only relies on one form of payment and doesn't try to steal from you by selling features that should be obtainable in game (such as charging a sub and still having you pay extra for inventory space, etc). But there are some companies that, if you really think about it, do try to work with the player base even if there are flaws.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 24,639
    Abuz0r said:
     

    Can we get something new?  Can some developer somewhere find an actual new way to have fun? Like something I haven't seen or sort of seen before? 
    While your points are valid (and have been expressed before) who is going to fund it? 

    What people don't realize is that game development is a bit hit or miss and a miss can cripple a company. How would you like it if every time your company put out a product you risked losing your job?

    Some people say that developers are "lazy" and "only in it for the money" but it seems to me that just being in the field proves that they aren't "lazy and in it for the money".



  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member RarePosts: 2,735
    Bitrip said:
    MMORPGs suck now because of the players, not the developers. There is little to no humanity in a game's population. Back in the day guilds were literal online families. Now they are just a way to get bonus stats. 
    And that's by design on purpose or not.  In game hooks to other players have been removed.  Out of game hooks can't compete with VoIP and social media.  
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member EpicPosts: 18,844
    Abuz0r said:
    mrgovna said:
    MMOs haven't been great for a while. At best they're reskins of decades old stuff.
    Anyones that actually try something, like Firefall or Tera, tend to have big enough faults to make them not interesting.
    All the others might as well be each other.
    if someone cant find game for yourself in present days, something  is wrong with that person 
    That's quite the jump. Sure, you can most likely find a game you like, but we're also talking (I think) specifically about MMOs. In that arena, OP is right. There are a lot of titles, but not a lot of variety.

    There's WoW, and there's EVE. Most are then just slight variations on those models. I suppose there are a few exceptions, like Trove. And there are a few that do differentiate a little more than others, but essentially, there's not much to choose from.
    Agree on both counts,  I was actually going to make mention of WoW and EVE being the basis of every other MMO with basically reskins.

    Aion has flying, guild wars has world events, I could list off a dozen unique 'features' that are specialties of games.  At the end of the day, Aion and GW are both wow reskins with a couple unique features and a lot less to do and much smaller communities.

    The success of WoW has caused game developers to stop innovating and desperately try to get in on the action. WoW is blizzards thing, make your own, quit trying to copy, it's not fun.
    Well then, is A Tale in the Desert a reskin of WoW or of EVE?  How about Puzzle Pirates?  If you want something more recent, how about Spiral Knights?  How about Elsword, which I've been playing recently?  Or perhaps Trove?

    If you can't find any MMORPGs that are substantially different from both WoW and EVE, the problem is you.  Yes, there are quite a few "WoW-clones" out there.  But there are also a lot of games that most certainly are not like WoW at all.  Or EVE, for that matter.

    Now, what sometimes happens is that people say, I want innovation X, and no game offers X, so therefore, there is no innovation.  Of course, if every game did X, that would really be no innovation, as they'd all be the same.

    Or sometimes, people will say, there are innovative games, but I don't like them, so there is no innovation.  There's an enormous difference between saying that there are no innovative MMORPGs and saying that there aren't MMORPGs that you like.

    There aren't any recent first-person shooters that I like.  But I don't go to forums about first-person shooters saying that the industry is falling apart because there haven't been any recent first-person shooters that I like.  I don't like the concept, so I avoid that entire swath of games and play games that I do like instead.  If you can't find any MMORPGs at all that you like, then maybe that's the approach for you:  find another genre that you do like.
  • nationalcitynationalcity Member UncommonPosts: 501
    edited November 2015
    Seems like MOBAs are the wave of the future the industry in general seems to be heading that direction......
    Post edited by nationalcity on
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,420
    scorpex-x said:
    This thread is dumb, if a company is going to spend 50-100 million making a new mmorpg they are not going to go off the wall and lose the vast majority of their target audience.

    Go play minecraft.
    Well, they certainly are not going for something like full loot FFA PvP, those games are certainly never getting much players but targetting the exactly same players as the other 100s of games might not be as smart as many people think. There are groups that while not as large as the casual soloplayer still have plenty of people and almost zero competition to get and if you are a realist you see that you probably would get more players going for groups like that.

    People like group and dungeon fans, crafters, explorers and social players have very few games aimed at them but you still could get a million players with a good game aimed for one of these groups (and you could mix in crafters and/or explorers with another group) and they certainly would stay longer than the casual soloplayers since there really is few other places to go to.

    Aiming for the largest thing isn't always the best alternative if you are realistic. Find a relaively large group with little competition and you get a success.
  • CecropiaCecropia Member UncommonPosts: 3,972
    edited November 2015
    Sovrath said:
    Cecropia said:

    Have you seriously not noticed the changes within entertainment in general throughout the last 10+ years? The music industry is a glaring example. The introduction of MP3's helped bring it down in a big way. 

    Well, now wait a minute, mp3's might have put a cramp in the music industry but some could argue that it emancipated the smaller musician. You no longer need a large label to put out an album and you can reach many more people because of the internet.

    So the music industry might have become a slightly more even field.

    I realize that takes the topic "off topic" in some ways but perhaps it puts things in a different perspective.

    Of course, with AAA games you need money but maybe some of these smaller developers will develop games that will do well enough that larger companies might be willing to refocus their efforts on other types of games.
    I can understand what you're saying but the annual global music income in 2014 was not far away from being 50% less than what it was in 1999. MP3's are not solely to blame but something is seriously "off" there.

    TV is also an interesting case; I kept wondering years ago what the hell was with all of this reality TV everywhere all of sudden. I finally got some insight when I stumbled upon an interview with the then HBO CEO who explained why shows like "game of Thrones" were so successful. It turns out the big networks love to produce reality TV shows so much due to how little they have to pay the "stars" as compared to real actors. In the process they lost a huge chunk of the 18-49 male demographic but clearly they have enough viewers to keep that boat sailing. HBO took advantage of the situation as they are a premium paid network that has the funds to operate as they wish. At least those of us that do not appreciate a dozen different versions of the "Howsewives of whatever" have a place to watch some quality TV.

    Gaming on the other hand is whole different story of course.  :)
    Post edited by Cecropia on

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 18,474
    Cecropia said:
    DMKano said:
    Scambug said:
    It's because our civilization is coming to an end. To make good art (and by extension , good entertainment) , artists and creators need to be carried by the hope of a better tomorrow. They need to feel like their work matters and will help shape the future.
    Today, whether we admit it or not, we all know western civilization is going down the drain - maybe even humanity as a whole. Hope for a better future is mostly gone.
    It's not just MMOs that have been getting worse over the years, it's the entire art/entertainment industry that just no longer has anything relevant to say.


    Pessimism is only one of the many viewpoints. 

    What people see in the world is often a projection of their own mental state.

    The world is what you make it, just like games are.


    Have you seriously not noticed the changes within entertainment in general throughout the last 10+ years? The music industry is a glaring example. The introduction of MP3's helped bring it down in a big way. I do not believe age is displayed in member profiles on the new forums but IIRC you are in your forties (sorry if I'm wrong), so you should have observed all of this quite clearly. 

    I'm not saying every form of entertainment is in the shits atm, but there are obvious issues with a large portion of it largely due to technological changes among other factors.

    Hmm. Thought this was pretty much common knowledge.


    I stay away from mainstream entertainment - it has nothing to offer me.

    The bands i listen to are largely unknown and since they are not after money nor fame they remain to be so.

    Our civilization doesn't matter - humanity is a transient state, we are not important in the big scheme of the universe, we just think we are, because self-importance is one of humanities greatest delusions.

    If we manage to give birth to true strong AI we have served our purpose, the strong AI can continue to improve and build past the limits of human intelligence. 

    But we were talking about entertainment - it's changing because the masses are changing, it doesn't meant you have to embrace it.

    It also doesn't mean that you have to give up as good entertainment exists, you just won't find it at Walmart or mainstream venues.

  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 1,993
    ARK is the perfect example of what ALL games should be aiming towards. Multiple server versions of any kind...PvP, PvE, official, unofficial, modded, non modded, special maps, converted  and any combination of those you can think of.

    It has mods, it has converted servers...new maps, battleground maps, primitive, medieval, converted stats and weights. It has a massive crafting system (made more indepth with mods), awesome graphics (if you can run it), RP (for those into that), PvP (heavy griefing on official servers), farming, cooking, taming, breeding, flying, swimming, free open world building (mods make it even better), decay (an aspect all MMOs should have but some think make them a 'survival' game).

    Also I love the biggest excuse as to why ARK IS NOT an MMO...it has single player option. Bwaahaaa all Star Citizen is right now is a single player mod. And that single player mod is going to be a core part of the 'release' of SC.

    ARK is an MMO and it basically has everything one could want in an MMO except  NPCs, quests and rails.
  • khanstructkhanstruct Member UncommonPosts: 756
    fodell54 said:
    Just because a game is a theme park doesn't mean it's WoW reskinned. All theme park games are similar. They're all on rails. Hence, why they are called theme parks. Sorry you can't discern a good game from a bad one and can only see World of Warcraft in everything you play. Sounds like a personal problem and it sucks to be you.
    But that's the point. There's "themepark" and a couple "sandboxes" and maybe a few variations (mostly all high fantasy). That's pretty limited.

    That'd be like, "just because all games are first-person shooters, doesn't mean they're all Halo reskins." True, but they are all first-person shooters, and that's getting old.

    We need some online worlds that expand into new territory. I think it should have thousands of people in a persistent world, but beyond that, the sky's the limit. (or, at least it should be)

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    if someone cant find game for yourself in present days, something  is wrong with that person 
    That's quite the jump. Sure, you can most likely find a game you like, but we're also talking (I think) specifically about MMOs. In that arena, OP is right. There are a lot of titles, but not a lot of variety.

    There's WoW, and there's EVE. Most are then just slight variations on those models. I suppose there are a few exceptions, like Trove. And there are a few that do differentiate a little more than others, but essentially, there's not much to choose from.

    So you expect games to be built to your needs?  Custom game builds for everyone!!!!

    If you can't find a game you like, it is your fault. 
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member EpicPosts: 2,490
    DMKano said:
    Abuz0r said:
    DMKano said:
    OP - you confuse abundance with lack


    Ok, inside that fridge there is fruit, turkey, eggs, and various other things to eat.  In the MMORPG selection of today there is yellow quest exclamation points, that's it.  I'm complaining about a lack of innovation, not a lack of games.  I mean, I can download hero engine and start a kickstarter tomorrow, but you're going to end up with the same old drivel.

    You might need to move some popular things in front to fridge to find what you are looking for. It is there you just need to look more.
    Meh, while I feel there is a decent amount of variation in MMOs I still understand the problem that so many games try to be as inclusive as possible so end up being indistinguishable from others. While the hyperbolic fridge of MMOs may be packed with food, its hard to get very excited at eating most of it if your meal will include mustard, ketchup, and onions for any foodstuff whether such a thing complements that foodstuff or not. Mustard ketchup and onions on a hot dog? Hell yes! On cake? No fucking thank you.


    Sam: "Last game here I'm playing myself." *implicating chessboard*

    Fresh: "You're losing to yourself."

    Sam: "Yeah, life's a bitch like that."


  • WarlyxWarlyx Member RarePosts: 2,584
    Pepeq said:
    The real problem here is you started playing the genre before Facebook was even an itch in some guys pants.  Back then, just chatting with people online was in and of itself... entertaining.  The game was just something you did together with your new online friends.

    Now people don't give a rats ass about the people playing the game, they're not interested in having an online chat with anyone.  So in a nutshell, if you were presented with <insert you most favorite MMORPG> today for the very first time... you'd go meh to it as well because the game is, in reality, meh.  It was the people that made the game interesting to play, the game really wasn't all that.  And that is why no new game keeps you entertained for more than a month tops.

    You have far too many things that are vying for your attention now... back then, not so much.
    yeah i could just chat for hours with my guild ....now ? not so much , usually use voicecom and strangers dont usually chat otuside of FFS stop KS !!! , or n00b! gtfo and whatnot :(
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    edited November 2015
    Abuz0r said:
    DMKano said:
    OP - you confuse abundance with lack


    Ok, inside that fridge there is fruit, turkey, eggs, and various other things to eat.  In the MMORPG selection of today there is yellow quest exclamation points, that's it.  I'm complaining about a lack of innovation, not a lack of games.  I mean, I can download hero engine and start a kickstarter tomorrow, but you're going to end up with the same old drivel.
     Your post is a perfect example of what the cartoon is depicting. I don't think thre is a better reply to that than yours to completely sum it up and tie a little bow on top. :) 

     
    Post edited by Loktofeit on

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member RarePosts: 27,752
    Seems like MOBAs are the wave of the future the industry in general seems to be heading that direction......
    Not only MOBAs. Card games too. Hearthstone made it to top 10 MMO revenue list.

    There are also MMO shooters ... i bet the new Blizz shooter (Overwatch) will be successful. 

    There are tons of choices. If someone cannot find something he/she likes .. tough. It is a free market. They are free to play or not play any game on the market, and the devs are free to cater to any audience they want. 

    I think it is an entitlement attitude to assume that the market has to produce something one likes. 
  • khanstructkhanstruct Member UncommonPosts: 756
    waynejr2 said:
    if someone cant find game for yourself in present days, something  is wrong with that person 
    That's quite the jump. Sure, you can most likely find a game you like, but we're also talking (I think) specifically about MMOs. In that arena, OP is right. There are a lot of titles, but not a lot of variety.

    There's WoW, and there's EVE. Most are then just slight variations on those models. I suppose there are a few exceptions, like Trove. And there are a few that do differentiate a little more than others, but essentially, there's not much to choose from.

    So you expect games to be built to your needs?  Custom game builds for everyone!!!!

    If you can't find a game you like, it is your fault. 
    And another grand jump. Saying that there should be more than 2 options is hardly calling for things to be "built to my needs".

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