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I'm aggravated with the selection, none of these new MMOs really do anything new.

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  • CecropiaCecropia Member RarePosts: 3,985
    DMKano said:
    Scambug said:
    It's because our civilization is coming to an end. To make good art (and by extension , good entertainment) , artists and creators need to be carried by the hope of a better tomorrow. They need to feel like their work matters and will help shape the future.
    Today, whether we admit it or not, we all know western civilization is going down the drain - maybe even humanity as a whole. Hope for a better future is mostly gone.
    It's not just MMOs that have been getting worse over the years, it's the entire art/entertainment industry that just no longer has anything relevant to say.


    Pessimism is only one of the many viewpoints. 

    What people see in the world is often a projection of their own mental state.

    The world is what you make it, just like games are.


    Have you seriously not noticed the changes within entertainment in general throughout the last 10+ years? The music industry is a glaring example. The introduction of MP3's helped bring it down in a big way. I do not believe age is displayed in member profiles on the new forums but IIRC you are in your forties (sorry if I'm wrong), so you should have observed all of this quite clearly. 

    I'm not saying every form of entertainment is in the shits atm, but there are obvious issues with a large portion of it largely due to technological changes among other factors.

    Hmm. Thought this was pretty much common knowledge.

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    Abuz0r said:
    DMKano said:
    OP - you confuse abundance with lack


    Ok, inside that fridge there is fruit, turkey, eggs, and various other things to eat.  In the MMORPG selection of today there is yellow quest exclamation points, that's it.  I'm complaining about a lack of innovation, not a lack of games.  I mean, I can download hero engine and start a kickstarter tomorrow, but you're going to end up with the same old drivel.

    A carrot is still a carrot doesn't mean it isn't worthy.


    However as far as "innovation" goes
    a) business models have evolved (for better or for worse in peoples opinions)
    b) use of tech has evolved e.g. megaservers (for better of for worse in peoples opinions)
    c) those games that have had "reasonable certainty" of reaching "large markets" have evolved: Titanfall, Destiny, SW BF ... hybrids if you like; even a game like CK2 has added an rp element. Niche games can also innovate (and sometimes become huge). The "middle ground though - "medium sales" - is "more likely" to play safe.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,937
    Cecropia said:

    Have you seriously not noticed the changes within entertainment in general throughout the last 10+ years? The music industry is a glaring example. The introduction of MP3's helped bring it down in a big way. 

    Well, now wait a minute, mp3's might have put a cramp in the music industry but some could argue that it emancipated the smaller musician. You no longer need a large label to put out an album and you can reach many more people because of the internet.

    So the music industry might have become a slightly more even field.

    I realize that takes the topic "off topic" in some ways but perhaps it puts things in a different perspective.

    Of course, with AAA games you need money but maybe some of these smaller developers will develop games that will do well enough that larger companies might be willing to refocus their efforts on other types of games.
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • BitripBitrip Member UncommonPosts: 279
    MMORPGs suck now because of the players, not the developers. There is little to no humanity in a game's population. Back in the day guilds were literal online families. Now they are just a way to get bonus stats. 

    image
    Now, which one of you will adorn me today?

  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,671
    I almost feel bad for the OP. Too focused on trying to find something that he/she hasn't seen, so much so that can't even find something that a company does well. Better off playing single player games. Sadly, if you compare the MMO market to what it was 10-15 years ago, you'll see that the industry is more about money and less about features. However, if you are that desperate to find something in this industry, you have to settle for what is being done well and gouges you the least since the water is overflowing the glass so to speak. Too much competition is killing the industry in my opinion, but still some companies dont cave completely under the pressure. We'll probably never see the "perfect" game that only relies on one form of payment and doesn't try to steal from you by selling features that should be obtainable in game (such as charging a sub and still having you pay extra for inventory space, etc). But there are some companies that, if you really think about it, do try to work with the player base even if there are flaws.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,937
    Abuz0r said:
     

    Can we get something new?  Can some developer somewhere find an actual new way to have fun? Like something I haven't seen or sort of seen before? 
    While your points are valid (and have been expressed before) who is going to fund it? 

    What people don't realize is that game development is a bit hit or miss and a miss can cripple a company. How would you like it if every time your company put out a product you risked losing your job?

    Some people say that developers are "lazy" and "only in it for the money" but it seems to me that just being in the field proves that they aren't "lazy and in it for the money".
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,198
    Bitrip said:
    MMORPGs suck now because of the players, not the developers. There is little to no humanity in a game's population. Back in the day guilds were literal online families. Now they are just a way to get bonus stats. 
    And that's by design on purpose or not.  In game hooks to other players have been removed.  Out of game hooks can't compete with VoIP and social media.  
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,347
    Abuz0r said:
    mrgovna said:
    MMOs haven't been great for a while. At best they're reskins of decades old stuff.
    Anyones that actually try something, like Firefall or Tera, tend to have big enough faults to make them not interesting.
    All the others might as well be each other.
    if someone cant find game for yourself in present days, something  is wrong with that person 
    That's quite the jump. Sure, you can most likely find a game you like, but we're also talking (I think) specifically about MMOs. In that arena, OP is right. There are a lot of titles, but not a lot of variety.

    There's WoW, and there's EVE. Most are then just slight variations on those models. I suppose there are a few exceptions, like Trove. And there are a few that do differentiate a little more than others, but essentially, there's not much to choose from.
    Agree on both counts,  I was actually going to make mention of WoW and EVE being the basis of every other MMO with basically reskins.

    Aion has flying, guild wars has world events, I could list off a dozen unique 'features' that are specialties of games.  At the end of the day, Aion and GW are both wow reskins with a couple unique features and a lot less to do and much smaller communities.

    The success of WoW has caused game developers to stop innovating and desperately try to get in on the action. WoW is blizzards thing, make your own, quit trying to copy, it's not fun.
    Well then, is A Tale in the Desert a reskin of WoW or of EVE?  How about Puzzle Pirates?  If you want something more recent, how about Spiral Knights?  How about Elsword, which I've been playing recently?  Or perhaps Trove?

    If you can't find any MMORPGs that are substantially different from both WoW and EVE, the problem is you.  Yes, there are quite a few "WoW-clones" out there.  But there are also a lot of games that most certainly are not like WoW at all.  Or EVE, for that matter.

    Now, what sometimes happens is that people say, I want innovation X, and no game offers X, so therefore, there is no innovation.  Of course, if every game did X, that would really be no innovation, as they'd all be the same.

    Or sometimes, people will say, there are innovative games, but I don't like them, so there is no innovation.  There's an enormous difference between saying that there are no innovative MMORPGs and saying that there aren't MMORPGs that you like.

    There aren't any recent first-person shooters that I like.  But I don't go to forums about first-person shooters saying that the industry is falling apart because there haven't been any recent first-person shooters that I like.  I don't like the concept, so I avoid that entire swath of games and play games that I do like instead.  If you can't find any MMORPGs at all that you like, then maybe that's the approach for you:  find another genre that you do like.
  • nationalcitynationalcity Member UncommonPosts: 501
    edited November 2015
    Seems like MOBAs are the wave of the future the industry in general seems to be heading that direction......
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    scorpex-x said:
    This thread is dumb, if a company is going to spend 50-100 million making a new mmorpg they are not going to go off the wall and lose the vast majority of their target audience.

    Go play minecraft.
    Well, they certainly are not going for something like full loot FFA PvP, those games are certainly never getting much players but targetting the exactly same players as the other 100s of games might not be as smart as many people think. There are groups that while not as large as the casual soloplayer still have plenty of people and almost zero competition to get and if you are a realist you see that you probably would get more players going for groups like that.

    People like group and dungeon fans, crafters, explorers and social players have very few games aimed at them but you still could get a million players with a good game aimed for one of these groups (and you could mix in crafters and/or explorers with another group) and they certainly would stay longer than the casual soloplayers since there really is few other places to go to.

    Aiming for the largest thing isn't always the best alternative if you are realistic. Find a relaively large group with little competition and you get a success.
  • CecropiaCecropia Member RarePosts: 3,985
    edited November 2015
    Sovrath said:
    Cecropia said:

    Have you seriously not noticed the changes within entertainment in general throughout the last 10+ years? The music industry is a glaring example. The introduction of MP3's helped bring it down in a big way. 

    Well, now wait a minute, mp3's might have put a cramp in the music industry but some could argue that it emancipated the smaller musician. You no longer need a large label to put out an album and you can reach many more people because of the internet.

    So the music industry might have become a slightly more even field.

    I realize that takes the topic "off topic" in some ways but perhaps it puts things in a different perspective.

    Of course, with AAA games you need money but maybe some of these smaller developers will develop games that will do well enough that larger companies might be willing to refocus their efforts on other types of games.
    I can understand what you're saying but the annual global music income in 2014 was not far away from being 50% less than what it was in 1999. MP3's are not solely to blame but something is seriously "off" there.

    TV is also an interesting case; I kept wondering years ago what the hell was with all of this reality TV everywhere all of sudden. I finally got some insight when I stumbled upon an interview with the then HBO CEO who explained why shows like "game of Thrones" were so successful. It turns out the big networks love to produce reality TV shows so much due to how little they have to pay the "stars" as compared to real actors. In the process they lost a huge chunk of the 18-49 male demographic but clearly they have enough viewers to keep that boat sailing. HBO took advantage of the situation as they are a premium paid network that has the funds to operate as they wish. At least those of us that do not appreciate a dozen different versions of the "Howsewives of whatever" have a place to watch some quality TV.

    Gaming on the other hand is whole different story of course.  :)

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,611
    ARK is the perfect example of what ALL games should be aiming towards. Multiple server versions of any kind...PvP, PvE, official, unofficial, modded, non modded, special maps, converted  and any combination of those you can think of.

    It has mods, it has converted servers...new maps, battleground maps, primitive, medieval, converted stats and weights. It has a massive crafting system (made more indepth with mods), awesome graphics (if you can run it), RP (for those into that), PvP (heavy griefing on official servers), farming, cooking, taming, breeding, flying, swimming, free open world building (mods make it even better), decay (an aspect all MMOs should have but some think make them a 'survival' game).

    Also I love the biggest excuse as to why ARK IS NOT an MMO...it has single player option. Bwaahaaa all Star Citizen is right now is a single player mod. And that single player mod is going to be a core part of the 'release' of SC.

    ARK is an MMO and it basically has everything one could want in an MMO except  NPCs, quests and rails.
  • khanstructkhanstruct Member UncommonPosts: 756
    fodell54 said:
    Just because a game is a theme park doesn't mean it's WoW reskinned. All theme park games are similar. They're all on rails. Hence, why they are called theme parks. Sorry you can't discern a good game from a bad one and can only see World of Warcraft in everything you play. Sounds like a personal problem and it sucks to be you.
    But that's the point. There's "themepark" and a couple "sandboxes" and maybe a few variations (mostly all high fantasy). That's pretty limited.

    That'd be like, "just because all games are first-person shooters, doesn't mean they're all Halo reskins." True, but they are all first-person shooters, and that's getting old.

    We need some online worlds that expand into new territory. I think it should have thousands of people in a persistent world, but beyond that, the sky's the limit. (or, at least it should be)

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,769
    if someone cant find game for yourself in present days, something  is wrong with that person 
    That's quite the jump. Sure, you can most likely find a game you like, but we're also talking (I think) specifically about MMOs. In that arena, OP is right. There are a lot of titles, but not a lot of variety.

    There's WoW, and there's EVE. Most are then just slight variations on those models. I suppose there are a few exceptions, like Trove. And there are a few that do differentiate a little more than others, but essentially, there's not much to choose from.

    So you expect games to be built to your needs?  Custom game builds for everyone!!!!

    If you can't find a game you like, it is your fault. 
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

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    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

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  • WarlyxWarlyx Member EpicPosts: 3,361
    Pepeq said:
    The real problem here is you started playing the genre before Facebook was even an itch in some guys pants.  Back then, just chatting with people online was in and of itself... entertaining.  The game was just something you did together with your new online friends.

    Now people don't give a rats ass about the people playing the game, they're not interested in having an online chat with anyone.  So in a nutshell, if you were presented with <insert you most favorite MMORPG> today for the very first time... you'd go meh to it as well because the game is, in reality, meh.  It was the people that made the game interesting to play, the game really wasn't all that.  And that is why no new game keeps you entertained for more than a month tops.

    You have far too many things that are vying for your attention now... back then, not so much.
    yeah i could just chat for hours with my guild ....now ? not so much , usually use voicecom and strangers dont usually chat otuside of FFS stop KS !!! , or n00b! gtfo and whatnot :(
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    edited November 2015
    Abuz0r said:
    DMKano said:
    OP - you confuse abundance with lack


    Ok, inside that fridge there is fruit, turkey, eggs, and various other things to eat.  In the MMORPG selection of today there is yellow quest exclamation points, that's it.  I'm complaining about a lack of innovation, not a lack of games.  I mean, I can download hero engine and start a kickstarter tomorrow, but you're going to end up with the same old drivel.
     Your post is a perfect example of what the cartoon is depicting. I don't think thre is a better reply to that than yours to completely sum it up and tie a little bow on top. :) 

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Seems like MOBAs are the wave of the future the industry in general seems to be heading that direction......
    Not only MOBAs. Card games too. Hearthstone made it to top 10 MMO revenue list.

    There are also MMO shooters ... i bet the new Blizz shooter (Overwatch) will be successful. 

    There are tons of choices. If someone cannot find something he/she likes .. tough. It is a free market. They are free to play or not play any game on the market, and the devs are free to cater to any audience they want. 

    I think it is an entitlement attitude to assume that the market has to produce something one likes. 
  • khanstructkhanstruct Member UncommonPosts: 756
    waynejr2 said:
    if someone cant find game for yourself in present days, something  is wrong with that person 
    That's quite the jump. Sure, you can most likely find a game you like, but we're also talking (I think) specifically about MMOs. In that arena, OP is right. There are a lot of titles, but not a lot of variety.

    There's WoW, and there's EVE. Most are then just slight variations on those models. I suppose there are a few exceptions, like Trove. And there are a few that do differentiate a little more than others, but essentially, there's not much to choose from.

    So you expect games to be built to your needs?  Custom game builds for everyone!!!!

    If you can't find a game you like, it is your fault. 
    And another grand jump. Saying that there should be more than 2 options is hardly calling for things to be "built to my needs".

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Member UncommonPosts: 2,759
    Cecropia said:
    DMKano said:
    Scambug said:
    It's because our civilization is coming to an end. To make good art (and by extension , good entertainment) , artists and creators need to be carried by the hope of a better tomorrow. They need to feel like their work matters and will help shape the future.
    Today, whether we admit it or not, we all know western civilization is going down the drain - maybe even humanity as a whole. Hope for a better future is mostly gone.
    It's not just MMOs that have been getting worse over the years, it's the entire art/entertainment industry that just no longer has anything relevant to say.


    Pessimism is only one of the many viewpoints. 

    What people see in the world is often a projection of their own mental state.

    The world is what you make it, just like games are.


    Have you seriously not noticed the changes within entertainment in general throughout the last 10+ years? The music industry is a glaring example. The introduction of MP3's helped bring it down in a big way. I do not believe age is displayed in member profiles on the new forums but IIRC you are in your forties (sorry if I'm wrong), so you should have observed all of this quite clearly. 

    I'm not saying every form of entertainment is in the shits atm, but there are obvious issues with a large portion of it largely due to technological changes among other factors.

    Hmm. Thought this was pretty much common knowledge.

    You would have a more valid point with this regarding the discussion if not for the fact that the entire existence of MMORPGs is BECAUSE of technological changes. Improved technology is responsible for the existence of them, as well as the ability to do much more with them than could be done in the past. It's like complaining that cell phones suck now compared to the 90s because we have technology that made them smaller, faster, and capable of things that weren't even possible with a giant computer a few decades ago. Advances in technology are hardly an issue when it comes to MMOs.

    The biggest issue I see is that the market has become infested with "suits" who call all the shots rather than people with a passion for gaming, which has caused a massive divide between types of developers. It's come to a point where (aside from a few rare cases) it has become very difficult to obtain the financial backing required to put out a real high quality & good looking game without forcing your game to conform to certain standards. You could have the workings for the most innovative and awesome MMO ever, with all kinds of cool new stuff, but the companies willing to back you can't even comprehend what it is you are trying to do and instead want you to basically work off of a checklist of features that some other game, like WoW, had in it. They don't have a passion for, or understanding of, what MMORPG gaming is or what would actually move the industry forward. All they know is "This other game did these things and made money. Let's do the same thing but call it something different". Then they push for releases of half-finished and uninspired products for a quick profit. (See EA's forcing Mythic to release WAR as an unfinished buggy product as an example)

    Unfortunately for the dev teams who avoid seeking large financial backing from big corporations, the lack of funding results in having to work with a very small and usually less experienced team who typically a) can't get work completed as quickly and / or b) don't have the capabilities (both knowledge and technology) to properly implement a lot of the things they would like to do, and do so without basically breaking things. On top of that there is also the typical lower graphical capabilities of indie games, as well as the lack of any real marketing to draw in large amounts of players.

    Now I'm not one who really cares about things like graphics. But let's be realistic. If your average gamer saw a commercial for something like The Repopulation vs something like Destiny or Halo... which are most people going to be like "That looks cool as hell. I want to play it".

    Fortunately the growth of things like Kickstarter have helped get some very promising projects the funding they need to make at least a pretty decent product with some great new ideas, but until we reach a point where those types of ideas are implemented properly into some larger budget games, the majority of the industry is going to just keep pumping out the same old crap we've been playing for over a decade. All it takes is 1 company willing to properly fund the right game for it to change the way many of these other companies view the MMO industry and get them to realize "Hey, theres a lot of really great stuff out there that asn't been done yet. We can do so much more with these games AND make tons of money doing it".



  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,739
    I'm still waiting for a nice world to explore...Every single MMO the last few years just makes a generic world that is nothing but a questfest.......I blame WoW...All the games before it had interesting worlds, all the games since are boring, linear theme park worlds.
  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Member RarePosts: 1,607
    DMKano said:
    Cecropia said:
    DMKano said:
    Scambug said:
    It's because our civilization is coming to an end. To make good art (and by extension , good entertainment) , artists and creators need to be carried by the hope of a better tomorrow. They need to feel like their work matters and will help shape the future.
    Today, whether we admit it or not, we all know western civilization is going down the drain - maybe even humanity as a whole. Hope for a better future is mostly gone.
    It's not just MMOs that have been getting worse over the years, it's the entire art/entertainment industry that just no longer has anything relevant to say.


    Pessimism is only one of the many viewpoints. 

    What people see in the world is often a projection of their own mental state.

    The world is what you make it, just like games are.


    Have you seriously not noticed the changes within entertainment in general throughout the last 10+ years? The music industry is a glaring example. The introduction of MP3's helped bring it down in a big way. I do not believe age is displayed in member profiles on the new forums but IIRC you are in your forties (sorry if I'm wrong), so you should have observed all of this quite clearly. 

    I'm not saying every form of entertainment is in the shits atm, but there are obvious issues with a large portion of it largely due to technological changes among other factors.

    Hmm. Thought this was pretty much common knowledge.


    I stay away from mainstream entertainment - it has nothing to offer me.

    The bands i listen to are largely unknown and since they are not after money nor fame they remain to be so.

    Our civilization doesn't matter - humanity is a transient state, we are not important in the big scheme of the universe, we just think we are, because self-importance is one of humanities greatest delusions.

    If we manage to give birth to true strong AI we have served our purpose, the strong AI can continue to improve and build past the limits of human intelligence. 

    But we were talking about entertainment - it's changing because the masses are changing, it doesn't meant you have to embrace it.

    It also doesn't mean that you have to give up as good entertainment exists, you just won't find it at Walmart or mainstream venues.


    That was one of the most hipsterish things I've ever read on this website. 
  • khanstructkhanstruct Member UncommonPosts: 756
    edited November 2015
    DMKano said:

    I stay away from mainstream entertainment - it has nothing to offer me.

    The bands i listen to are largely unknown and since they are not after money nor fame they remain to be so.

    Our civilization doesn't matter - humanity is a transient state, we are not important in the big scheme of the universe, we just think we are, because self-importance is one of humanities greatest delusions.

    If we manage to give birth to true strong AI we have served our purpose, the strong AI can continue to improve and build past the limits of human intelligence. 

    But we were talking about entertainment - it's changing because the masses are changing, it doesn't meant you have to embrace it.

    It also doesn't mean that you have to give up as good entertainment exists, you just won't find it at Walmart or mainstream venues.



  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    DMKano said:
    I'm still waiting for a nice world to explore...Every single MMO the last few years just makes a generic world that is nothing but a questfest.......I blame WoW...All the games before it had interesting worlds, all the games since are boring, linear theme park worlds.

    All games? Really?
    Well truthfully I hit quite a few of them (mostly mainstream) that were, so I confess I quit trying.

    Haven't tried any of the newer titles since ESO when it launched, so no clue really what's available these days, maybe games like Trove are great, I dunno.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

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  • KazuhiroKazuhiro Member UncommonPosts: 606
    Aori said:
    Tree of Savior does everything right for me as an MMO veteran.

    I can't wait until it is out of beta.
    Everything except the AWFUL potato servers they currently have. Makes the game completely broken currently. Oh and the fact 90% of the game is client-side. So people will be hacking it into kingdom come. (And already are.)

    To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.

  • SiveriaSiveria Member UncommonPosts: 1,416
    Its because world of warcraft got casuals into mmorpgs, other devs seen this, now they assume everyone wants that kind of game, so thats all they make now. Whenever a dev tries to do something diffrent now they get blasted by the casuals, or if they ignore them the game ends up flopping due to lack of players. Gamers today want everything easymode and handed to them, I mean look at most single player games, you could be a retarted monkey and still clear them since all you do in most of these games is walk down a 1 way tunnel shooting anything that isin't you. The sad thing is, that is what sells these days. Gaming has fallen hard, it peaked around the ps1/ps2 era, but since then its been snowballing downhill slowly, in the mmorpg and singleplayer world alike.

    I been playing alot of indie games lately, and gameplay wise some of them blow away anything a AAA dev makes away, now imagine if they had the budget of an AAA dev to make that exact same game... Yeah it'd be epic. Part of the reason they can be so free (gameplay wise) though is probally because they aren't shackled to a big name publisher, that would force them to rush stuff out before it is ready.
    Kazuhiro said:
    Aori said:
    Tree of Savior does everything right for me as an MMO veteran.

    I can't wait until it is out of beta.
    Everything except the AWFUL potato servers they currently have. Makes the game completely broken currently. Oh and the fact 90% of the game is client-side. So people will be hacking it into kingdom come. (And already are.)

    It depends, if they have server side protection that blocks stuff that it deems weird, it can work, the fact alot of it is client side means its easly modable if you wanted to. But then I remember pso on dreamcast/gamecube and the massive hacking in those games on a console of all things because most of it is client side. Westerners cheat too much in games, where as eastern players usually just wanna play the game without this stuff, its a mentality diffrence.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

    A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

    or

    B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

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