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Xenoblade developers cave to western feminists. Western version censored.

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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 18,695
    Kiyoris said:
    Robokapp said:
    Interesting on this topic is always this...

    Lorenzo Lotto. Venus and Cupid. Oil on canvas. The Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York, USA

    I wonder if the Metropolitan Museum Of Art is rated R or censored. Do you have to be 18 to enter?


    http://www.abcgallery.com/L/lotto/lotto26.html
    According to many here, this 18th century painting should be censored and banned.

    Not only is it a minor, it is a minor without any clothing.

    They feel, they have the moral authority, to censor others.
    The problem with your position is first that you pointed blame to some group that had nothing to do with the change. The publisher never said why the change was made. That was all you trying to vilify a group in order to promote your agenda.

    There is NO censorship here. No government stepped in and said things should be censored. No one in this thread has said that art should be censored. That's all you and your strawman red herring position that you can't defend. This is a game marketed to both minors and adults. The art you posted isn't being mass marketed to children the way this game is.
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

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    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,100
    Kiyoris said:
    Torval said:

    Basically the OP and those defending it are lashing out women as the cause of this small change. @tawess above really outlined it well.
    Wrong, I love women. But I don't like groups standing on a moral high ground, telling others what they can and can't do. No one appointed them.
    LOL. Here's a shovel, dig yourself a deeper hole:


    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,055

    Nothing good has come out of this 2nd wave feminism.

    Feminism has much to answer for denigrating men and encouraging women to seek independence whatever the cost to their families.

    I would generally disagree... But then we get in to a argument about the definition of feminism and what is or is not a part of that. 

    So i will just ask.... What "cost to their families"? Or was that just something you pulled from thin air. 

    Tawess gaming

    Tawess soapbox

    This have been a good conversation

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    edited November 2015
    Torval said:
    The problem with your position is first that you pointed blame to some group that had nothing to do with the change.
    Considering I saw these people complain about it on Twitter, and considering they have been extremely vocal lashing out at Nintendo on almost every single game released in the last months, I have no doubts Nintendo caved to public pressure.

    Because at PAX, several months ago, they assured there would be "no change at all".


  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,113

    Robokapp said:
    She represents a minor. 
    What else is there to understand?
    your point?

    I can google minors in bathing suits right now. 

    If i were living in Iran I don't think I could but ... hmmm ... or the USA soon, it seems. 
    I didn't see anything about who made the decision to modify the appearance. You guys make it sound like there was some politician or lobby group pushing for this. It was probably the developer voluntarily looking to stay away from controversy in the West. Blame who you must. But I doubt this is a case where your freedoms are being chipped away.
    It degraded into this feminist empowerment thread, ya the op choose a bad title. He clearly triggered some people.

    The developer changed it based on ratings, apparently a bikini on a 15 year old(yes she is 15 in the west) was the defining factor for the game to be PEGI12 or PEGI16. In the United States it would have been T regardless.

    My issue is more with the PEGI rating system which is redundant. PEGI12 and PEGI16 are the same freaking rating.

    What makes even less sense to me is this. If they left the Bikini in, the game would be PEGI16. What is wrong with a 12-15 year old looking at girls his age in a bikini?
  • StrayfeStrayfe Member UncommonPosts: 199
    Reiterating again that pixels are neither minors, nor do they have any legal standing.  There is no moral argument to be made here at all.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 18,695
    Kiyoris said:
    Torval said:
    The problem with your position is first that you pointed blame to some group that had nothing to do with the change.
    Considering I saw these people complain about it on Twitter, and considering they have been extremely vocal lashing out at Nintendo on almost every single game released in the last months, I have no doubts Nintendo caved to public pressure.

    Because at PAX, several months ago, they assured there would be "no change at all".
    You also have no proof but seem more than comfortable jumping to a conclusion. They may even take credit. Lot's of groups and gamers complain about different publishers and platforms and their decisions. How do you think those companies come to their conclusions? Money. Whatever makes them the most money. Corporate decisions are based on maximizing profit and future growth.
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

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    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    edited November 2015
    here is the proof that Nintendo said there was no change at Pax in August

    between August and now, something changed, and Nintendo caved

    So people saying "Developers wanted the change"...are flat out wrong, the developer panel said they DID NOT want to change anything.



  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 18,695
    Has any content been cut?
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    Torval said:
    Has any content been cut?
    let's not start a semantics game, they clearly meant nothing would get censored
  • RobokappRobokapp Member RarePosts: 5,979
    Torval said:
    Has any content been cut?
    missing the point.

    image

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,620
    I think people need to learn the difference between being censored and someone wanting to avoid a shitstorm.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 18,695
    Kiyoris said:
    Torval said:
    Has any content been cut?
    let's not start a semantics game, they clearly meant nothing would get censored
    Then don't post semantic arguments. You're the one who posted that. Has the content been cut? You could just answer the question.
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 9,725
    The West seems to be the only region where fan service affects people's mind and feminazis show up to cause trouble.

    Asia creates those fan services and they dont have any problem with it and their minds are clear as water.

    /facepalm

    We just cant handle it.




  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,055
    edited November 2015
    So one single screencap makes up the entierty of your evidence... Good job. 

    Yeah i know it is scary that things change... And yes i will admit that we will see some rather interesting "over reactions" while the new balance is found, such as the people who cry for the complete removal of exposed female skin in video games... But these are not the people that will be the norm in the long. Understand that in order to reach a new middleground where everyone is treated equally and given the same amount of of exposure (and clothing) ON AVERAGE. That will be a journey with the crazy extremes... It will be unpleasant at times... And in the end we will have a better world.

    Do you know why i say that... Because i have seen what a little work towards equality can do... Such as letting me get marrid in most of the US if i should so choose... So i have a hard time seeing how us all working to create a space where noone is treated as an object... Or am i worng? 

    The West seems to be the only region where fan service affects people's mind and feminazis show up to cause trouble.

    Asia creates those fan services and they dont have any problem with it and their minds are clear as water. 

    /facepalm

    We just cant handle it.


    The is the beauty of culture is it not... Different values in different places... And even bettre, you do not need to agree. 

    Tawess gaming

    Tawess soapbox

    This have been a good conversation

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    edited November 2015
    I think people need to learn the difference between being censored and someone wanting to avoid a shitstorm.
    The "shitstorm" was created by giving in to the censorship crowd.

    When the "feminist bloggers" started attacking Nintendo.

    Nintendo, not understanding how ruthless and vile some of those people are, decided to do a good deed, and decided to make a Nintendo Women's History month campaign.

    Here are some pictures of it.





    Instead of appreciation, Nintendo got attacked even more.

    Nintendo is so confused right now, they don't even know what to do.

    Meanwhile, all the companies that said "screw censorship", don't get attacked, because the censorship crowd realized it's pointless.


  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,498

    There is no 'The Feminists'.    There are only people.   And we know that there are all types out there,  including some given to excess when faced with a computer screen plugged into the internet.


    Ample evidence here, on any number of personal or ideological positions.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,055
    Again... I would not exactly take any blog that use the words "social justice warriors" as a trusty reporter on matters regarding Feminism... That would be like asking "the Klan" to write a expose of the history of the US slave trade. #not1to1butitpaintsagoodimage

    No one sane is denying that there are people who take the whole "man hate" thing WAAAAAAY to far. But you have that in any movement. They are the outliers, the anomalies. The ones that will become a footnote in history. 

    Tawess gaming

    Tawess soapbox

    This have been a good conversation

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    tawess said:

    Do you know why i say that... Because i have seen what a little work towards equality can do... Such as letting me get marrid in most of the US if i should so choose... So i have a hard time seeing how us all working to create a space where noone is treated as an object... Or am i worng?
    I will just say, be careful who you associate yourself with, they might turn out to have ulterior motives to appease to you, a motive other than you having the opportunity to get married (which I fully support). That is all I will say about it, because I prefer the discussion to be about the game, otherwise a mod will just shut down the thread.
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Kiyoris said:
    Maybe the real question is.
    Why do you want this?
    I don't know who you're referring to, but I want the original version of the game, as intended by the developer.


    How do you know the developer didn't want to have the character dressed and older to begin with, but had to compromise their work in order to appeal to an audience that preferred younger, less-dressed characters? 

    Maybe what we are getting is the intended version.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    Loktofeit said:
    Kiyoris said:
    Maybe the real question is.
    Why do you want this?
    I don't know who you're referring to, but I want the original version of the game, as intended by the developer.


    How do you know the developer didn't want to have the character dressed and older to begin with, but had to compromise their work in order to appeal to an audience that preferred younger, less-dressed characters? 

    Maybe what we are getting is the intended version.

    The fact they promised no change at Pax.

    You are correct, that it is increasingly hard to know what changed and why, but this is being caused by the extremely vocal holier than thou crowd who thinks they can make moral decisions for others.

    Before, it was rather simple, if a game had been censored, you could safely assume, it was an officially appointed government institution making the suggestion.

    This also gave the developers plenty of time, because these games are submitted before release.

    But considering the amount of times game companies have caved to PC correctness, you are correct, we no longer can be 100% sure what, why or how.
  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,055
    edited November 2015
    Kiyoris said:
    tawess said:

    Do you know why i say that... Because i have seen what a little work towards equality can do... Such as letting me get marrid in most of the US if i should so choose... So i have a hard time seeing how us all working to create a space where noone is treated as an object... Or am i worng?
    I will just say, be careful who you associate yourself with, they might turn out to have ulterior motives to appease to you, a motive other than you having the opportunity to get married (which I fully support). That is all I will say about it, because I prefer the discussion to be about the game, otherwise a mod will just shut down the thread.
    Well i do know who i associate with.. Do you know who you associate with..? Do you know if they have ulterior motives...? =) 

    But i have to say that it is nice to see that "you support" something at least. 


    Kiyoris said:
    The fact they promised no change at Pax.


    No they said "no cut content" and as people have told others many time on this site... Cosmetics are not content. =P 

    On a more serious note we can not say what the actually meant by content, afaik the only part that is different is a tiny cosmetic change to get around EU rating systems and avoid a higher rating level that could deter customers. But i guess if we go by the letter of the law.1... Yes you are right... 

    Tawess gaming

    Tawess soapbox

    This have been a good conversation

  • heocatheocat Member UncommonPosts: 175
    Is it a joke that half the posts on this are censored? Being a discussion on it.

    image

  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,055
    No... we all went sort off-topic quite a bit and more than a few people got kind of hostile. =) So it would be normal going by the rules of the forum in question. 

    Tawess gaming

    Tawess soapbox

    This have been a good conversation

  • stonyleinstonylein Member UncommonPosts: 88
    are the misogynist gamergate kids still around? pathetic.
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