Laughing at all the people who deny this is pay to win. Give me a break. By the definition of the term as you jokers present it, technically nothing can be considered pay to win.
Sell game-time for ISK? Not pay-to-win, because while ISK may buy you a great ship and modules, you won't have the necessary character skills to fly them competently. Fair enough.
Pay IRL for an item which allows you to sell skill points to other characters for ISK, effectively bypassing the above situation? "It's not pay-to-win because a more skillful player will beat them!"
So I guess none of you consider buying better weapons and armor through a cash shop pay-to-win, then? After all, many MMOs, especially of the shooter variety, take a great deal of skill (more than EVE, that's for sure) which, according to your insane troll logic, effectively negates any pay-to-win mechanics.
Sniped by a sniper with a ridiculous weapon from the cash shop? Pour three clips of ammo into somebody wearing cash shop armor, not even killing them? Can't effectively CC a character in PvP because of a cash shop item or potion? Run down by a player with a super fast cash-shop only mount? Well, that's your fault, because you weren't 'skilled enough' to negate the advantage, apparently.
So many of you people are the ones who bitch and moan about cash shops in other games, but once CCP does it, suddenly there's no problem. Hmmm... I think I'll go call up Wargaming.net and tell them to bring back gold ammo. After all, your 'skills' should negate the advantage it provides, right?
What a bunch of hypocrites. I'd be laughing if it weren't so pathetic.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
Laughing at all the people who deny this is pay to win. Give me a break. By the definition of the term as you jokers present it, technically nothing can be considered pay to win.
Sell game-time for ISK? Not pay-to-win, because while ISK may buy you a great ship and modules, you won't have the necessary character skills to fly them competently. Fair enough.
Pay IRL for an item which allows you to sell skill points to other characters for ISK, effectively bypassing the above situation? "It's not pay-to-win because a more skillful player will beat them!"
So I guess none of you consider buying better weapons and armor through a cash shop pay-to-win, then? After all, many MMOs, especially of the shooter variety, take a great deal of skill (more than EVE, that's for sure) which, according to your insane troll logic, effectively negates any pay-to-win mechanics.
Agree. Unfortunately this is how the industry works, they just keep moving the bar a little here and there, conditioning customers into new behavior. Then customers convince themselves and sometimes others that everything is totally fine and the problem is everyone else, and then the bar gets moved a little more the next time.
It seems for some people "pay to win" literally means paying money and then watching the credits scroll while your screen says, "YOU WIN!"
Don't worry though, they'll move the bar again soon enough and then we can hear all new reasons xyz is totally not P2W!
Eve devs do not create content. The provide mechanics and then let the player base explore them as they will.
The fact that people bring up Eve and content tells me they do not understand the game.
In regards to the post above.
You spend real life money. The nub doesn't. Who is winning again?
just look up ship losses and see what is more than likely to happen to someone like the above poster who thinks spending real life money in Eve to buy stuff makes him a winner. Better yet, please don't. Just jump in with all the bling you can buy and un-dock.........Eve vets will love you long time.
What about the new corp that wants to be a mining powerhouse without taking the time to build up the funds for ships and they just buy them and the SP with cash. Or the trade corp that want a jump capable ship but does not want to put the few months in for the SP so they buy the SP and ship. Those are aspects of the game people are now paying to bypass as in many other games people want to bypass the collection of armor, weapons, and levels and just buy them. Many on this board have said that is P2W.
Many on this board clearly can't discern between P2A vs P2W, just means many are incorrect.
I have the same option as any one else, I can earn it in game with no significant effort, or buy it.
I currently have well over 60B in assets including ISK, what someone chooses to buy has no impact on my operations.
Many on this board try to pretend there is a difference in games where there are no "winners" just people with paid advantages.
To quote Bill Murray in Stripes, "that's a fact Jack!"
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
EvE has started on the P2W path since they started to heavily push players to get secondary accounts, and adjusted (or left alone bad) mechanics so you require secondary accounts if you wish to play solo
Big rig, dual or plus screens, funding accounts: money
This has been going on for years and the schadenfreude crowd (the one with disposable scouts, disposable scammers, offgrid boosters etc) has been hard at work pretending secondary accounts (which need investments to use properly, at least another screen, plus funding it: you can do it with ingame isk by buying a PLEX, it's still real money and time in the end) are not P2W
tldr; a 1st person shooter gameplay levels investment differences in gaming gear: more IRL money does not bring a real advantage EvE actually rewards putting a lot of IRL money into it, due to its gameplay, which has been tweaked for such a path
You speak as if they did something wrong in designing a game that rewards having multiple accounts. Sheer brilliance really, and as someone who pays cash money for 6 subs I only use a single laptop to play all accounts simultaneously.
So yes, I am willing to spend a lot of money on sub time, clearly I am winning EVE.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Laughing at all the people who deny this is pay to win. Give me a break. By the definition of the term as you jokers present it, technically nothing can be considered pay to win.
Sell game-time for ISK? Not pay-to-win, because while ISK may buy you a great ship and modules, you won't have the necessary character skills to fly them competently. Fair enough.
Pay IRL for an item which allows you to sell skill points to other characters for ISK, effectively bypassing the above situation? "It's not pay-to-win because a more skillful player will beat them!"
So I guess none of you consider buying better weapons and armor through a cash shop pay-to-win, then? After all, many MMOs, especially of the shooter variety, take a great deal of skill (more than EVE, that's for sure) which, according to your insane troll logic, effectively negates any pay-to-win mechanics.
Agree. Unfortunately this is how the industry works, they just keep moving the bar a little here and there, conditioning customers into new behavior. Then customers convince themselves and sometimes others that everything is totally fine and the problem is everyone else, and then the bar gets moved a little more the next time.
It seems for some people "pay to win" literally means paying money and then watching the credits scroll while your screen says, "YOU WIN!"
Don't worry though, they'll move the bar again soon enough and then we can hear all new reasons xyz is totally not P2W!
I've brought up this exact argument before and a regular poster here assured me that that was literally what pay 2 win means: you pay money and then see the final credits, everything else isn't P2W. I almost lost all hope in the future of gaming in that moment.
Apparently the most common tactic on this forum when you start to lose an argument is to start picking at semantics. If that doesn't work you start quoting the dictionary directly I'm pretty sure.
Laughing at all the people who deny this is pay to win. Give me a break. By the definition of the term as you jokers present it, technically nothing can be considered pay to win.
Sell game-time for ISK? Not pay-to-win, because while ISK may buy you a great ship and modules, you won't have the necessary character skills to fly them competently. Fair enough.
Pay IRL for an item which allows you to sell skill points to other characters for ISK, effectively bypassing the above situation? "It's not pay-to-win because a more skillful player will beat them!"
So I guess none of you consider buying better weapons and armor through a cash shop pay-to-win, then? After all, many MMOs, especially of the shooter variety, take a great deal of skill (more than EVE, that's for sure) which, according to your insane troll logic, effectively negates any pay-to-win mechanics.
Agree. Unfortunately this is how the industry works, they just keep moving the bar a little here and there, conditioning customers into new behavior. Then customers convince themselves and sometimes others that everything is totally fine and the problem is everyone else, and then the bar gets moved a little more the next time.
It seems for some people "pay to win" literally means paying money and then watching the credits scroll while your screen says, "YOU WIN!"
Don't worry though, they'll move the bar again soon enough and then we can hear all new reasons xyz is totally not P2W!
Sigh, to simplify, P2W is when an item or service is offered in the cash shop that is either totally unavailable by playing the actual game, or would take a person an unreasonable amount of time (mileage varies on this) to earn said item in game. Additionally if you can buy items of power that impart immediate and overwhelming advantage against others, consider it P2W.
None of this is happening in EVE, go ahead, buy every skill in the game, you still won't beat me, I'm better at this game than you.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
With Eve Online rapidly loosing players due to game stagnation and lack of solid content in their small updates for years it seems CCP has reached an all new low and are looking to milk their remaining playerbase even further. They will allow players to buy an item with aurum that can convert skill points into an item which they can sell to other players (PAY TO WIN)
CCP is letting Eve slowly die while milking their vets as much as they can to fund their virtual reality mini games that will end up cancelled or abandoned like dust514, world of darkness, project legion
Discuss:
Every MMO I've played has mercs, you pay a group to get you something (xp, gear or whatever).
How is this different? You are paying someone else to do something for you right?
Also I think some of you are confusing desperate with greedy, unless you think EVE is going to close down soon because it has almost no players left.
Sigh, to simplify, P2W is when an item or service is offered in the cash shop that is either totally unavailable by playing the actual game, or would take a person an unreasonable amount of time (mileage varies on this) to earn said item in game. Additionally if you can buy items of power that impart immediate and overwhelming advantage against others, consider it P2W.
None of this is happening in EVE, go ahead, buy every skill in the game, you still won't beat me, I'm better at this game than you.
While I don't think that's a wrong definition, if you asked 100 people on these forums what P2W is you would likely get almost 100 different answers. That's why every time the term is brought up it gets debated, there is no consensus on where the line is drawn.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Laughing at all the people who deny this is pay to win. Give me a break. By the definition of the term as you jokers present it, technically nothing can be considered pay to win.
Sell game-time for ISK? Not pay-to-win, because while ISK may buy you a great ship and modules, you won't have the necessary character skills to fly them competently. Fair enough.
Pay IRL for an item which allows you to sell skill points to other characters for ISK, effectively bypassing the above situation? "It's not pay-to-win because a more skillful player will beat them!"
So I guess none of you consider buying better weapons and armor through a cash shop pay-to-win, then? After all, many MMOs, especially of the shooter variety, take a great deal of skill (more than EVE, that's for sure) which, according to your insane troll logic, effectively negates any pay-to-win mechanics.
Agree. Unfortunately this is how the industry works, they just keep moving the bar a little here and there, conditioning customers into new behavior. Then customers convince themselves and sometimes others that everything is totally fine and the problem is everyone else, and then the bar gets moved a little more the next time.
It seems for some people "pay to win" literally means paying money and then watching the credits scroll while your screen says, "YOU WIN!"
Don't worry though, they'll move the bar again soon enough and then we can hear all new reasons xyz is totally not P2W!
Sigh, to simplify, P2W is when an item or service is offered in the cash shop that is either totally unavailable by playing the actual game, or would take a person an unreasonable amount of time (mileage varies on this) to earn said item in game. Additionally if you can buy items of power that impart immediate and overwhelming advantage against others, consider it P2W.
None of this is happening in EVE, go ahead, buy every skill in the game, you still won't beat me, I'm better at this game than you.
What is unreasonable time to effectively fly a jump ship from scratch in EVE. Pretty long time. Many might say unreasonable due to fixed rate training....see where I am going?
There is nothing wrong with EVE it just has P2W elements. Does not make it bad or good. Just is.
EvE has started on the P2W path since they started to heavily push players to get secondary accounts, and adjusted (or left alone bad) mechanics so you require secondary accounts if you wish to play solo
Big rig, dual or plus screens, funding accounts: money
This has been going on for years and the schadenfreude crowd (the one with disposable scouts, disposable scammers, offgrid boosters etc) has been hard at work pretending secondary accounts (which need investments to use properly, at least another screen, plus funding it: you can do it with ingame isk by buying a PLEX, it's still real money and time in the end) are not P2W
tldr; a 1st person shooter gameplay levels investment differences in gaming gear: more IRL money does not bring a real advantage EvE actually rewards putting a lot of IRL money into it, due to its gameplay, which has been tweaked for such a path
How are skillpoints P2W?
I can pwn you on my 2 month alt as well as on my 12y old main.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
EvE has started on the P2W path since they started to heavily push players to get secondary accounts, and adjusted (or left alone bad) mechanics so you require secondary accounts if you wish to play solo
Big rig, dual or plus screens, funding accounts: money
This has been going on for years and the schadenfreude crowd (the one with disposable scouts, disposable scammers, offgrid boosters etc) has been hard at work pretending secondary accounts (which need investments to use properly, at least another screen, plus funding it: you can do it with ingame isk by buying a PLEX, it's still real money and time in the end) are not P2W
tldr; a 1st person shooter gameplay levels investment differences in gaming gear: more IRL money does not bring a real advantage EvE actually rewards putting a lot of IRL money into it, due to its gameplay, which has been tweaked for such a path
How are skillpoints P2W?
I can pwn you on my 2 month alt as well as on my 12y old main.
The discussion in the forum are about as brutal as the PvP in the Game itself
When the metagaming starts, the forum battles are much more brutal than in game battles.
Because IN the game its still make-believe. But metagaming is fiddling with the mind in the REAL world !
You cannot really break someone in EVE IN the game, as they always have NPC stations as an unconquerable fall-back option. You have to break their morale and will to continue in the REAL world to achieve victory !
Buying skill points in EVE is the direct equivalent to purchasing a level 100 (or 90 or whatever) in WoW. It gets you access to the later stages of the game, while putting you on even footing with everyone else who is already there... no winning involved.
Comments
Sell game-time for ISK? Not pay-to-win, because while ISK may buy you a great ship and modules, you won't have the necessary character skills to fly them competently. Fair enough.
Pay IRL for an item which allows you to sell skill points to other characters for ISK, effectively bypassing the above situation? "It's not pay-to-win because a more skillful player will beat them!"
So I guess none of you consider buying better weapons and armor through a cash shop pay-to-win, then? After all, many MMOs, especially of the shooter variety, take a great deal of skill (more than EVE, that's for sure) which, according to your insane troll logic, effectively negates any pay-to-win mechanics.
Sniped by a sniper with a ridiculous weapon from the cash shop? Pour three clips of ammo into somebody wearing cash shop armor, not even killing them? Can't effectively CC a character in PvP because of a cash shop item or potion? Run down by a player with a super fast cash-shop only mount? Well, that's your fault, because you weren't 'skilled enough' to negate the advantage, apparently.
So many of you people are the ones who bitch and moan about cash shops in other games, but once CCP does it, suddenly there's no problem. Hmmm... I think I'll go call up Wargaming.net and tell them to bring back gold ammo. After all, your 'skills' should negate the advantage it provides, right?
What a bunch of hypocrites. I'd be laughing if it weren't so pathetic.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
It seems for some people "pay to win" literally means paying money and then watching the credits scroll while your screen says, "YOU WIN!"
Don't worry though, they'll move the bar again soon enough and then we can hear all new reasons xyz is totally not P2W!
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You speak as if they did something wrong in designing a game that rewards having multiple accounts. Sheer brilliance really, and as someone who pays cash money for 6 subs I only use a single laptop to play all accounts simultaneously.
So yes, I am willing to spend a lot of money on sub time, clearly I am winning EVE.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Apparently the most common tactic on this forum when you start to lose an argument is to start picking at semantics. If that doesn't work you start quoting the dictionary directly I'm pretty sure.
Sigh, to simplify, P2W is when an item or service is offered in the cash shop that is either totally unavailable by playing the actual game, or would take a person an unreasonable amount of time (mileage varies on this) to earn said item in game. Additionally if you can buy items of power that impart immediate and overwhelming advantage against others, consider it P2W.
None of this is happening in EVE, go ahead, buy every skill in the game, you still won't beat me, I'm better at this game than you.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
How is this different? You are paying someone else to do something for you right?
Also I think some of you are confusing desperate with greedy, unless you think EVE is going to close down soon because it has almost no players left.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
There is nothing wrong with EVE it just has P2W elements. Does not make it bad or good. Just is.
I can pwn you on my 2 month alt as well as on my 12y old main.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Now go back and read what you quoted
http://baronsofthegalaxy.com/ An MMO game I created, solo. It's live now and absolutely free to play!
Because IN the game its still make-believe. But metagaming is fiddling with the mind in the REAL world !
You cannot really break someone in EVE IN the game, as they always have NPC stations as an unconquerable fall-back option. You have to break their morale and will to continue in the REAL world to achieve victory !
Have fun
Nothing brutal about pressing f1 and waiting and seeing if your character skills/ ship build rock paper sissors and win.
Eve pvp is rock paper scissors. Nothing brutal about that. Just nerds wasting their time.