The games I LIKE are no longer available in a format that's value for money and marketed in a way that makes customers pay MORE for content.
Roger that. An important clarification.
I myself do not buy certain game series like Battlefield, Assassins Creed, Sim City etc. because of their way of doing business. On the other hand, I DID break down in the face of games like Mass Effect and bought it anyway, despite their DLC policy.
I find myself more and more waiting 2-3 years or so and then buying the "Gold" version of a game for less than the original version. Those versions that contain the complete game, including the main game, 3-5 DLC's and 32ish mini downloads (weapon packs, extra thrones ... you name it).
No, i am also an original Backer and i was never asked if i was O.K. with them pushing back the game to develop things that where not in the original game pitch. I never got an email asking me or informing me about this.
You now had 3 years to ask for a refund if you did not like the project anymore. Getting a refund is as easy as sending one or two simple e-mails, giving a reason for wanting a refund and ... presto.
Why did you not ask for a refund, if you do not like it anymore or think that CIG is not following your wishes ?
Have fun
You said they informed everyone about the change of scope and delays. NO THEY DID NOT.
Why would i get a refund? This is not about me wanting a refund at all. You are changing the subject because you are uncomfortable with the plain truth of the matter.
NO ORIGINAL BACKER WAS EVER INFORMED OR ASKED ABOUT THE CHANGE FROM:
"Kickstarter to make a new Wing Commander game!"
TO:
1. Make THREE different games instead of one. 2. Employing his wife (former ex-wife) as top Manager, actress in the game and online game show host to further her failed career and siphon money out of the project. 3. Creating an online shop for spaceships with professional commercials and glossy magazines 4. Investing into a company creating an online crowd funding and sales platform that is now commercially sold.
These are the hard facts my friend. This has nothing to do with me wanting a refund: I WANT THE PROMISED GAME!
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
These are the hard facts my friend. This has nothing to do with me wanting a refund: I WANT THE PROMISED GAME!
You get the promised game ... and more.
If you do not want the "more" or if you do not want to wait for the "more", you can always ask for a refund.
If you want reasons for a refund: I can tell you what worked for a friend of mine. He lost his job and asked for a refund because he cut down on all non essential expenses and tried to get all the money back he had in Kickstarter projects, asked all friends to give him back money they borrowed from him, cancelled various subscriptions etc. It is also said that when you say you read the Escapist article and do not want to support the game anymore, you also get a refund.
The hard facts are: if you do not like the project anymore and to not want to support it anymore - what is keeping you ?
IMHO : If you stay, you agree. If not, you could take your money and support another project.
So I am very curious, why does other people spending money on what they want affect you in ANY way, shape, or form?
Well for a start, peoples spending habbits kicked of the microtransaction age where i am nickled and dimed for everything in every fucking game.
I'm sorry did I miss the part where some one had a gun to your head forcing you to pay for games?
If having all the DLC for a game is that important to you and for whatever reason you can't afford (more on this in the next paragraph) it wait a few years and you can buy it all at bargain barn prices.
I would also submit, that if these "nickle and dime" tactics are putting that much of a strain on your budget then perhaps spending money on any hobby may be unrealistic at his time and you should secure another means of generating revenue until such time that you are in a comfortable place to indulge your chosen hobby.
I make a bloody heap of money. I have zero bills (beyond utilities grrr) so I can and will, with complete disregard to the rest of humanity spend any amount of money I feel necessary on any game I choose too. Because I can. While I do not look down on others I am very happy with my station in life and the hard work I put in for many years to get here and I take a bit of offence to those that choose to whine and cry about the spending habits of others.
In closing; it is the people that spend money on F2P games that keep said games afloat (most of the time) and the people that are 'along for the ride' should honestly shut their collective holes and appreciate what others are footing the bill for them to play. I hope that about covers that BS.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Aren't they like a year past their launch date already? When are they going to actually work on the game and not just videos? How much longer will their dwindling money hold out before they launch?
I think you need to realize what Star Citizen actually is, they are never going to run out of money because they make over $1 million per month ontop of whatever the base budget is. This is not a game where you get a budget and make it, this is a game with constant income in large quantities that can be easily bloated out with more ships.
Also they said 2017 release didn't they?
You might not like what Star Citizen is and the fanbase it has but they have a lot of money and are more than happy to throw it at the people making the game.
Aren't they like a year past their launch date already? When are they going to actually work on the game and not just videos? How much longer will their dwindling money hold out before they launch?
Yes they are past their ORIGINAL launch date based on raising 4 million dollars with a tiny feature set. Now just kick back and do some mental math and let common sense kick in. I know it's used less and less these days and people just rely more on regurgitating other peoples assumptions and opinions But give it a shot.
I believe the last published STRETCH goal was at 65 million. At that point almost 100 additional features were added to the original project. Now do your best to try and visualize what that might do to the original timeline. Don't over do it, but start slowly and put all the pieces together one by one and a clearer image of what's actually happening begins to take shape.
Yet we see on this site and others advertising for a game that isn't even made yet and we get over and over and over again how much he made from backers yet he won't say how much cash he actually has left.
Seriously?
CIG shall reveal their financial status because YOU, someone who has not paid them a dime, asked for it?
I have news for you mister, it doesn't work that way. Find me backers, people who paid THEIR MONEY asking CR for a financial report and maybe then i'll give your writings some credit.
CIG doesn't owe you or DS or anyone else "concerned" about crowd funding getting hurt anything. Find me a KS project where the backers have full access to the finances and again i'll give you some credit.
I am a day one backer and i want to know some ballpark figures about what they have spent and how much is left. I don't want to know what they pay the cleaning lady but an overview on how much they spend on Marketing, Development, Voice Acting, Motion Capture. You get the idea. Not asking too much is it?
If i hear Chris Roberts say something like this in the Polygon Interview i am worried:
"We managed our expenses based on the revenue we bring in. We have our development timeline and we know what we're doing. We adjust. If I'm not bringing in $3 million or $2 million a month, we aren't going to have as many people working on it."
You want an example: Double Fine Adventure disclosed their financials during the campaign on the forums. They also had a running documentary bi-monthly showing everything they do, including meetings and development. That was one of the finest kickstarters i have ever been part of in terms of transparency.
Wouldn't it be funny if the cleaning lady was his or his wife's mother? :-D
They also had a running documentary bi-monthly showing everything they do, including meetings and development. That was one of the finest kickstarters i have ever been part of in terms of transparency.
HAHAHAA are you assing us all?? Double Fine was delayed for years and they split in half and delivered the second part another year later, I know, because I backed it.
bi-monthly documentary is awesome? well CIG has THREE documentaries/livestreams PER WEEK, plus multiple dev posts, lore and other stuff, weekly AND monthly studio reports
CIGs campaign craps all over Double Fine´s campaign, then runs three circles around it and takes another crap on it to finish it off.
I would love to see how much that costs them every time they make one! You guys don't see this as a waste of money? Couldn't they just do a write up on forums on what they are doing each week? Be a lot cheaper. It is like CR loves to bleed money on every little thing!
I would love to see how much that costs them every time they make one! You guys don't see this as a waste of money? Couldn't they just do a write up on forums on what they are doing each week? Be a lot cheaper. It is like CR loves to bleed money on every little thing!
It costs the SC campaign NOTHING. Because subscribers like me pay voluntarily an extra monthly sum for all those video-blogs, Jump Point magazine, weekly shows etc. None of this is financed from the SC crowdfunding money. None of this takes ANYTHING away from developing the game itself.
But you already knew that anyway. You just failed to mention it because it does not fit your tune.
But hey, it is only mentioned EVERY BLOODY TIME you see one of these shows like "10 for the Chairman" etc.
And they ARE doing a write up on the forums. In fact you find THOUSANDS of dev answers there. But you already knew that too. And failed to mention this either.
These are the hard facts my friend. This has nothing to do with me wanting a refund: I WANT THE PROMISED GAME!
You get the promised game ... and more.
If you do not want the "more" or if you do not want to wait for the "more", you can always ask for a refund.
The hard facts are: if you do not like the project anymore and to not want to support it anymore - what is keeping you ?
IMHO : If you stay, you agree. If not, you could take your money and support another project.
Have fun
You don't get it do you? You keep saying the same thing that has nothing to do with what i said. I know you are German, maybe your English is a little rusty.
I say it again: You said backers where informed about this. That is a lie and we both know it. No backing out of this one pal.
I backed a new Wing Commander game. This was abandoned without me as original Backer being informed about it. I want what they promised during the Kickstarter. I don't want a refund. I did not back MORE and i do not want MORE.
NO ORIGINAL BACKER WAS EVER INFORMED OR ASKED ABOUT THE CHANGE.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
You idiots do not get it do you. Have you not read the article in which Star Citizen says they do not give refunds. They will only give a refund to someone that is toxic to the community and they do not want them in their community anymore.
I would love to see how much that costs them every time they make one! You guys don't see this as a waste of money? Couldn't they just do a write up on forums on what they are doing each week? Be a lot cheaper. It is like CR loves to bleed money on every little thing!
It costs the SC campaign NOTHING. Because subscribers like me pay voluntarily an extra monthly sum for all those video-blogs, Jump Point magazine, weekly shows etc. None of this is financed from the SC crowdfunding money. None of this takes ANYTHING away from developing the game itself.
But you already knew that anyway. You just failed to mention it because it does not fit your tune.
But hey, it is only mentioned EVERY BLOODY TIME you see one of these shows like "10 for the Chairman" etc.
And they ARE doing a write up on the forums. In fact you find THOUSANDS of dev answers there. But you already knew that too. And failed to mention this either.
Have fun
How do you know this? How many people are subscribed? You have insight into the financials of CIG? Do you know how much it costs to make these shows, videos and live streams?
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
Aren't they like a year past their launch date already? When are they going to actually work on the game and not just videos? How much longer will their dwindling money hold out before they launch?
Yes they are past their ORIGINAL launch date based on raising 4 million dollars with a tiny feature set. Now just kick back and do some mental math and let common sense kick in. I know it's used less and less these days and people just rely more on regurgitating other peoples assumptions and opinions But give it a shot.
I believe the last published STRETCH goal was at 65 million. At that point almost 100 additional features were added to the original project. Now do your best to try and visualize what that might do to the original timeline. Don't over do it, but start slowly and put all the pieces together one by one and a clearer image of what's actually happening begins to take shape.
Good luck!
None of the original Backers asked for this. We wanted a new Wing Commander not 3 Different games. We were never asked about it. They just decided this without asking the people that made it all possible.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
Aren't they like a year past their launch date already? When are they going to actually work on the game and not just videos? How much longer will their dwindling money hold out before they launch?
Yes they are past their ORIGINAL launch date based on raising 4 million dollars with a tiny feature set. Now just kick back and do some mental math and let common sense kick in. I know it's used less and less these days and people just rely more on regurgitating other peoples assumptions and opinions But give it a shot.
I believe the last published STRETCH goal was at 65 million. At that point almost 100 additional features were added to the original project. Now do your best to try and visualize what that might do to the original timeline. Don't over do it, but start slowly and put all the pieces together one by one and a clearer image of what's actually happening begins to take shape.
Good luck!
None of the original Backers asked for this. We wanted a new Wing Commander not 3 Different games. We were never asked about it. They just decided this without asking the people that made it all possible.
You might have been happy with what was promised and offered at Kickstarter but obviously things change. An idea or a prototype in any industry pretty much never survives exactly how it was envisioned at it's inception.
Obviously by the actions taken after the Kickstarter Roberts had ideas of a much bigger game. He then showed the rest of those ideas to the people and wanted to see if they agreed with him. By steadily moving through each stretch goal the people gave Roberts the answer he was looking for.
You're unhappy about it? There's a few ways of answering that, the obvious one is that you are in the vast vast vast minority. The masses want the game that Roberts believes he can make and and now he has an opportunity to do so, whether this happens or not remains to be seen. You're still unhappy of the direction of the game? Well you participated in a kickstarter, I'm sure that there is a bunch of fine print about how there are no guarantees.
Aren't they like a year past their launch date already? When are they going to actually work on the game and not just videos? How much longer will their dwindling money hold out before they launch?
Yes they are past their ORIGINAL launch date based on raising 4 million dollars with a tiny feature set. Now just kick back and do some mental math and let common sense kick in. I know it's used less and less these days and people just rely more on regurgitating other peoples assumptions and opinions But give it a shot.
I believe the last published STRETCH goal was at 65 million. At that point almost 100 additional features were added to the original project. Now do your best to try and visualize what that might do to the original timeline. Don't over do it, but start slowly and put all the pieces together one by one and a clearer image of what's actually happening begins to take shape.
Good luck!
None of the original Backers asked for this. We wanted a new Wing Commander not 3 Different games. We were never asked about it. They just decided this without asking the people that made it all possible.
You might have been happy with what was promised and offered at Kickstarter but obviously things change. An idea or a prototype in any industry pretty much never survives exactly how it was envisioned at it's inception.
Obviously by the actions taken after the Kickstarter Roberts had ideas of a much bigger game. He then showed the rest of those ideas to the people and wanted to see if they agreed with him. By steadily moving through each stretch goal the people gave Roberts the answer he was looking for.
You're unhappy about it? There's a few ways of answering that, the obvious one is that you are in the vast vast vast minority. The masses want the game that Roberts believes he can make and and now he has an opportunity to do so, whether this happens or not remains to be seen. You're still unhappy of the direction of the game? Well you participated in a kickstarter, I'm sure that there is a bunch of fine print about how there are no guarantees.
Yes, Kickstarter is very clear in it's EULA how goals have to be met and the creators have to show reasonable effort to deliver the original Kickstarter promises. You can read it yourself, takes less than 5 minutes:
When a project is successfully funded, the creator is responsible for completing the project and fulfilling each reward. Their fundamental obligation to backers is to finish all the work that was promised. Once a creator has done so, they’ve fulfilled their obligation to their backers.
If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:
they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
These Kickstarter rules have not been fulfilled by CIG. Backers were never informed and they never posted an update explaining and showing how funds have been used.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the single player campaign squadron 42, which cloud imperium claims is coming out in 2016 the fulfillment of all the early kickstarter goals that you are talking about MrSnuffles? Which means they do not have to show how they used the funds because they met all their goals. They should show how funds were used after the development is over I think but there are valid reasons to not while in the middle of development.
I honestly do not see what your complaint is, they are building what you asked for and more besides or are you saying they should have built only what you wanted and not added anything beyond the original scope?
Aren't they like a year past their launch date already? When are they going to actually work on the game and not just videos? How much longer will their dwindling money hold out before they launch?
Yes they are past their ORIGINAL launch date based on raising 4 million dollars with a tiny feature set. Now just kick back and do some mental math and let common sense kick in. I know it's used less and less these days and people just rely more on regurgitating other peoples assumptions and opinions But give it a shot.
I believe the last published STRETCH goal was at 65 million. At that point almost 100 additional features were added to the original project. Now do your best to try and visualize what that might do to the original timeline. Don't over do it, but start slowly and put all the pieces together one by one and a clearer image of what's actually happening begins to take shape.
Good luck!
None of the original Backers asked for this. We wanted a new Wing Commander not 3 Different games. We were never asked about it. They just decided this without asking the people that made it all possible.
Soon Erillion will be here to tell you your opinion and to have fun. This is what it means to be a citizen of the Oligarchy known as SC.
>>> If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, >>>
But the creater is NOT unable to complete the project. It takes longer for the mini-game you still have in mind, but that is also covered in the TOS which you agreed to once you joined the project.
CIG posts updates five times a week in varying forms, more than any other project i know of.
They show how funds were used ... not with financial reports like you think but with a ton of articles, videos, blogs, gaming press articles, forum dev posts etc. The Kickstarter rules mention nothing about standardized financial reports like companies have to publish that are on the stock market.
CIG may not have posted the things YOU expected.
But it seems most of the 781.020 paying backers (or 1.035.687 Star Citizen fans) were ok with what CIG posted, because around 746.623 of those backers or 96 % joined AFTER the Kickstarter campaign was over.
How do you know this? How many people are subscribed? You have insight into the financials of CIG? Do you know how much it costs to make these shows, videos and live streams?
You don;t know anything.
I look into "The Den", the forum sub-section open only for subscribers. I see thousands of posters there. Which automatically means that there are thousands of subscribers (no, i will not count them for you ;-). I have no EXACT number of subscribers for you, but its "many thousands" ... maybe tenthousands.
Lets assume 5000 subscribers ... lets assume they all are of the lower class of subscribers (there are two levels) paying 10 $ per month. Thats 120 $ per year per subscriber. Makes 600.000 $ per year. My personal guestimate is that its significantly higher than that.
I know from an interview that Star Citizen has at least one employee (a film maker) working full time on making these shows. I am quite sure he is not being paid 600 k$ per year. Add the editor of Jump Point magazine. Add a customer service person to exclusively handle subscriber database maintenance. Grab some of the other people to join the shows (lets call it 5 % of their usual work time for 3 dozen people). A decent set of digital cameras - professional grade - costs 100 k$ (i have worked with wildlife documentary filmmakers in the past). The total cost should be well within the 600 k$ mentioned.
I may not know exact numbers, but i know basic math and can estimate cost.
Have fun
PS: Here is the audio interview: http://imperialnews.network/2015/10/innside-cig-thomas-hennessy/ "This time on INNside CIG, we speak with Thomas Hennessy. Hennessy, CIG’s
Videographer, talks to us about how he started in the industry, and at
CIG, talks about his daily tasks, and about his thoughts on the work
environment at, and the community that has grown up around, CIG."
>>> If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, >>>
But the creater is NOT unable to complete the project. It takes longer for the mini-game you still have in mind, but that is also covered in the TOS which you agreed to once you joined the project.
CIG posts updates five times a week in varying forms, more than any other project i know of.
They show how funds were used ... not with financial reports like you think but with a ton of articles, videos, blogs, gaming press articles, forum dev posts etc. The Kickstarter rules mention nothing about standardized financial reports like companies have to publish that are on the stock market.
CIG may not have posted the things YOU expected.
But it seems most of the 781.020 paying backers (or 1.035.687 Star Citizen fans) were ok with what CIG posted, because around 746.623 of those backers or 96 % joined AFTER the Kickstarter campaign was over.
Yes, Kickstarter is very clear in it's EULA how goals have to be met and the creators have to show reasonable effort to deliver the original Kickstarter promises. You can read it yourself, takes less than 5 minutes:
When a project is successfully funded, the creator is responsible for completing the project and fulfilling each reward. Their fundamental obligation to backers is to finish all the work that was promised. Once a creator has done so, they’ve fulfilled their obligation to their backers.
If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:
they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
These Kickstarter rules have not been fulfilled by CIG. Backers were never informed and they never posted an update explaining and showing how funds have been used.
The game is still under development. Nobody has said that the company is pulling the plug and is unable to deliver the product. The only people who are saying the game is not coming out are the people who have absolutely no 1st hand information and what they say have absolutely no value or worth of any kind.
As for the obligations under kickstarter:
There is a website here: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/ dedicated to this game. This website is constantly updated with information pertaining to the games development. It's not stale, it's not sitting for months and years without any updates. At this website you can also see where the money is going:
Those are the goals that CIG is spending the kickstarter + the crowdfunding money attained through star citizen's website. Chris Roberts also continues to make posts himself, make public appearances (Citizen Con) showing off the game's continued development as it moves forward. As I look at your post above I can see that all the kickstarter obligations are currently being fulfilled. You also have access to the game itself and you can see for yourself pretty much every step of the game's development, which I also have, and I can tell you that this game is not sitting in one state where nothing is being done.
Not sure what else you want. You want access to the companies finances? Access to the payrolls? As CIG is a privately held company you have no access to it at all and they have no obligation of disclosing that information. If the company goes public and you want to see the finances, then they will gladly send you an annual report. But as of today. No.
How do you know this? How many people are subscribed? You have insight into the financials of CIG? Do you know how much it costs to make these shows, videos and live streams?
You don;t know anything.
I have no EXACT number of subscribers for you, but its "many thousands" ... maybe tenthousands.
Lets assume 5000 subscribers ... lets assume they ... My personal guestimate
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
That is quite a bit of work ,they made sure to post every single last detail Only thing missing in the update are their trips to the water cooler and lunch breaks :P I feel sorry for the guy who has to go around every station and write down what they have been doing,then to the employee it would almost feel like someone is spying on them.
Least you can see some work being done,well you can't see it,you can read it ..lol.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
I myself do not buy certain game series like Battlefield, Assassins Creed, Sim City etc. because of their way of doing business. On the other hand, I DID break down in the face of games like Mass Effect and bought it anyway, despite their DLC policy.
I find myself more and more waiting 2-3 years or so and then buying the "Gold" version of a game for less than the original version. Those versions that contain the complete game, including the main game, 3-5 DLC's and 32ish mini downloads (weapon packs, extra thrones ... you name it).
Have fun
Why would i get a refund? This is not about me wanting a refund at all. You are changing the subject because you are uncomfortable with the plain truth of the matter.
NO ORIGINAL BACKER WAS EVER INFORMED OR ASKED ABOUT THE CHANGE FROM:
"Kickstarter to make a new Wing Commander game!"
TO:
1. Make THREE different games instead of one.
2. Employing his wife (former ex-wife) as top Manager, actress in the game and online game show host to further her failed career and siphon money out of the project.
3. Creating an online shop for spaceships with professional commercials and glossy magazines
4. Investing into a company creating an online crowd funding and sales platform that is now commercially sold.
These are the hard facts my friend. This has nothing to do with me wanting a refund: I WANT THE PROMISED GAME!
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
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If you do not want the "more" or if you do not want to wait for the "more", you can always ask for a refund.
If you want reasons for a refund:
I can tell you what worked for a friend of mine. He lost his job and asked for a refund because he cut down on all non essential expenses and tried to get all the money back he had in Kickstarter projects, asked all friends to give him back money they borrowed from him, cancelled various subscriptions etc.
It is also said that when you say you read the Escapist article and do not want to support the game anymore, you also get a refund.
The hard facts are:
if you do not like the project anymore and to not want to support it anymore - what is keeping you ?
IMHO : If you stay, you agree. If not, you could take your money and support another project.
Have fun
If having all the DLC for a game is that important to you and for whatever reason you can't afford (more on this in the next paragraph) it wait a few years and you can buy it all at bargain barn prices.
I would also submit, that if these "nickle and dime" tactics are putting that much of a strain on your budget then perhaps spending money on any hobby may be unrealistic at his time and you should secure another means of generating revenue until such time that you are in a comfortable place to indulge your chosen hobby.
I make a bloody heap of money. I have zero bills (beyond utilities grrr) so I can and will, with complete disregard to the rest of humanity spend any amount of money I feel necessary on any game I choose too. Because I can. While I do not look down on others I am very happy with my station in life and the hard work I put in for many years to get here and I take a bit of offence to those that choose to whine and cry about the spending habits of others.
In closing; it is the people that spend money on F2P games that keep said games afloat (most of the time) and the people that are 'along for the ride' should honestly shut their collective holes and appreciate what others are footing the bill for them to play. I hope that about covers that BS.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Also they said 2017 release didn't they?
You might not like what Star Citizen is and the fanbase it has but they have a lot of money and are more than happy to throw it at the people making the game.
Yes they are past their ORIGINAL launch date based on raising 4 million dollars with a tiny feature set. Now just kick back and do some mental math and let common sense kick in. I know it's used less and less these days and people just rely more on regurgitating other peoples assumptions and opinions But give it a shot.
I believe the last published STRETCH goal was at 65 million. At that point almost 100 additional features were added to the original project. Now do your best to try and visualize what that might do to the original timeline. Don't over do it, but start slowly and put all the pieces together one by one and a clearer image of what's actually happening begins to take shape.
Good luck!
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
But you already knew that anyway. You just failed to mention it because it does not fit your tune.
But hey, it is only mentioned EVERY BLOODY TIME you see one of these shows like "10 for the Chairman" etc.
And they ARE doing a write up on the forums. In fact you find THOUSANDS of dev answers there. But you already knew that too. And failed to mention this either.
Have fun
I say it again: You said backers where informed about this. That is a lie and we both know it. No backing out of this one pal.
I backed a new Wing Commander game. This was abandoned without me as original Backer being informed about it. I want what they promised during the Kickstarter. I don't want a refund. I did not back MORE and i do not want MORE.
NO ORIGINAL BACKER WAS EVER INFORMED OR ASKED ABOUT THE CHANGE.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
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I hate video games.....
How do you know this? How many people are subscribed? You have insight into the financials of CIG? Do you know how much it costs to make these shows, videos and live streams?
You don;t know anything.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
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None of the original Backers asked for this. We wanted a new Wing Commander not 3 Different games. We were never asked about it. They just decided this without asking the people that made it all possible.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
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Obviously by the actions taken after the Kickstarter Roberts had ideas of a much bigger game. He then showed the rest of those ideas to the people and wanted to see if they agreed with him. By steadily moving through each stretch goal the people gave Roberts the answer he was looking for.
You're unhappy about it? There's a few ways of answering that, the obvious one is that you are in the vast vast vast minority. The masses want the game that Roberts believes he can make and and now he has an opportunity to do so, whether this happens or not remains to be seen. You're still unhappy of the direction of the game? Well you participated in a kickstarter, I'm sure that there is a bunch of fine print about how there are no guarantees.
What is a creator obligated to do once their project is funded?
When a project is successfully funded, the creator is responsible for completing the project and fulfilling each reward. Their fundamental obligation to backers is to finish all the work that was promised. Once a creator has done so, they’ve fulfilled their obligation to their backers.
If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:
These Kickstarter rules have not been fulfilled by CIG. Backers were never informed and they never posted an update explaining and showing how funds have been used.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
I honestly do not see what your complaint is, they are building what you asked for and more besides or are you saying they should have built only what you wanted and not added anything beyond the original scope?
But the creater is NOT unable to complete the project. It takes longer for the mini-game you still have in mind, but that is also covered in the TOS which you agreed to once you joined the project.
CIG posts updates five times a week in varying forms, more than any other project i know of.
They show how funds were used ... not with financial reports like you think but with a ton of articles, videos, blogs, gaming press articles, forum dev posts etc. The Kickstarter rules mention nothing about standardized financial reports like companies have to publish that are on the stock market.
CIG may not have posted the things YOU expected.
But it seems most of the 781.020 paying backers (or 1.035.687 Star Citizen fans) were ok with what CIG posted, because around 746.623 of those backers or 96 % joined AFTER the Kickstarter campaign was over.
Have fun
Lets assume 5000 subscribers ... lets assume they all are of the lower class of subscribers (there are two levels) paying 10 $ per month. Thats 120 $ per year per subscriber. Makes 600.000 $ per year. My personal guestimate is that its significantly higher than that.
I know from an interview that Star Citizen has at least one employee (a film maker) working full time on making these shows. I am quite sure he is not being paid 600 k$ per year. Add the editor of Jump Point magazine. Add a customer service person to exclusively handle subscriber database maintenance. Grab some of the other people to join the shows (lets call it 5 % of their usual work time for 3 dozen people). A decent set of digital cameras - professional grade - costs 100 k$ (i have worked with wildlife documentary filmmakers in the past). The total cost should be well within the 600 k$ mentioned.
I may not know exact numbers, but i know basic math and can estimate cost.
Have fun
PS:
Here is the audio interview:
http://imperialnews.network/2015/10/innside-cig-thomas-hennessy/
"This time on INNside CIG, we speak with Thomas Hennessy. Hennessy, CIG’s Videographer, talks to us about how he started in the industry, and at CIG, talks about his daily tasks, and about his thoughts on the work environment at, and the community that has grown up around, CIG."
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
As for the obligations under kickstarter:
There is a website here: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/ dedicated to this game. This website is constantly updated with information pertaining to the games development. It's not stale, it's not sitting for months and years without any updates. At this website you can also see where the money is going:
https://cloudimperiumgames.com/contact
Those are the offices CIG currently holds and operates which cost money.
At this link you will find where the money in development is going:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals
Those are the goals that CIG is spending the kickstarter + the crowdfunding money attained through star citizen's website. Chris Roberts also continues to make posts himself, make public appearances (Citizen Con) showing off the game's continued development as it moves forward. As I look at your post above I can see that all the kickstarter obligations are currently being fulfilled. You also have access to the game itself and you can see for yourself pretty much every step of the game's development, which I also have, and I can tell you that this game is not sitting in one state where nothing is being done.
Not sure what else you want. You want access to the companies finances? Access to the payrolls? As CIG is a privately held company you have no access to it at all and they have no obligation of disclosing that information. If the company goes public and you want to see the finances, then they will gladly send you an annual report. But as of today. No.
Have faith!
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
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Only thing missing in the update are their trips to the water cooler and lunch breaks :P
I feel sorry for the guy who has to go around every station and write down what they have been doing,then to the employee it would almost feel like someone is spying on them.
Least you can see some work being done,well you can't see it,you can read it ..lol.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.