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What are the main factors that cause disappointment with an MMO?

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  • VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472
    Zarkin86 said:

    Vardahoth said:
    It's all in my sig.
    Dude, awesome video. I watched it once. You are so right. only sucks that i didnt found mmos around that time. just look at L2 open world and compare it to todays themeparks.
    Thanks, I'm glad there is someone out there who is able to see past what is out today.

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,556
    At d20 all disappointments are the result of unmet expectations, in this case player  expectations. Those expectations may have been influenced by hype and or statements by the devs. 
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • Xeno.phonXeno.phon Member UncommonPosts: 350
    edited October 2015
    For me its:

    Global cool down timers
    Lack of immersive gameplay mechanisms like player housing or poorly made maps
    Publishers
    Promises not being kept on launch
    Poorly coordinated launches
    Monthly sub fee's for substandard games
    WOW clones... and WOW
    Click 1-5 to win style MMO
    Paywalls
    Toxic Communities
    Shallow gameplay that is obviously just trying to cover up a cash grab game
    Too Easy

    Unfortunately my list covers about every mmo out today, the last MMO I truly enjoyed was probably ff11 and Vanguard SoH... though vanguard was a kind of guilty pleasure. I started the game at launch and fell in love with it. After Brad sold us all out and his programmers nuked the code the game was an absolute mess... but I still had love for it. Also loved Tabula Rasa, before Lord Dickish abandoned it to go to space.

    The only thing worse than a bad developer, is a developer that can make a great game and destroy it with their ego and or greed.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    At d20 all disappointments are the result of unmet expectations, in this case player  expectations. Those expectations may have been influenced by hype and or statements by the devs. 

    The devs may say stupid things but expectations are what the players create in their own minds.  Don't buy the hype and trust but verify.   If the dev say the game will be full of Mega-{fill in the blank}, don't expect it until you see it in real game play.  As consumers, we shouldn't be lemmings.

    We need to ask real hard questions from the companies.  We need game websites to ask these questions as well. 

    As consumers, we need to verify if feature-X is something they hope to get in vs they have actually coded, tested and played feature-x in the current up to date version of their game.

    I know that is asking too much of gamers.  Currently there is a benefit they can talk about the hyped 'feature' and when it doesn't happen, they get hours of entertainment playing the disappointed victim.
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

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    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

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    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,324
    Over-hype and under-delivery.
    IMHO over-hype is not avoidable.

    Because thats what reporters etc do, not the devs.

    I heard so often from people who expected game X to have feature Y when nobody from the company themselves has ever promised that. It was just speculation from somebody else.



    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member RarePosts: 4,156
    edited October 2015
    Also something I'm noticing lately that ultimately WILL make people disappointed is games still in early development getting articles boasting about their features and dreams.

    Sure, great, you have a game in mind that you think people will love. Good for you. Come back and show what you have done when it's close to release, not already attempting to hype your dream game when it's going to take another 2-3+ years for us to play it.

    I don't want to say names but I'm sure you know which games I'm talking about.

  • VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472
    At d20 all disappointments are the result of unmet expectations, in this case player  expectations. Those expectations may have been influenced by hype and or statements by the devs. 
    Who'da thunk, a dev who fails to deliver what they promise. It's not like they are supposed to be professionals.

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,781
    unrealistic expectations
  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,303
    Hype.  People buy into hype then are crushed when it doesn't match reality.  Every company in the world paints the rosiest of pictures.  However, reality doesn't usually agree.  Add a sort of hive mentality that feeds the hype, and you get a large unstoppable beast that is brought down hard when reality sinks in.

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • makasouleater69makasouleater69 Member UncommonPosts: 1,096
    Cash shop/ Gambling boxes/ and the developers with no vision other then making money off of people, who cant stop compulsive buying. 
  • FomaldehydeJimFomaldehydeJim Member UncommonPosts: 673
    Cash shop/ Gambling boxes/ and the developers with no vision other then making money off of people, who cant stop compulsive buying. 

    F2P monetisation generally means that rather than appealing to a broad audience who individually contribute a little money; you instead only have to find ways to illicit money out of a small number of individuals with little control over their spending habits. 

    I agree that this is ruining games.
  • KanethKaneth Member RarePosts: 2,283
    Kyleran said:
    d_20 said:
    From my own experience, it would be high expectations. No surprise there, I guess. I will save more specific factors till later.
    I'd go further and say unrealistic expectations, always hoping the "next game" will be the magic savior for either yourself or everyone else always leads to disillusionment and anger when the title can't live up to the dream.

    Watch when SC launches, while many will like it, a large number of folks will hate on it incessantly because it's missing something they wanted.

    Couldn't agree enough. Expectations for what is seemingly the majority are so unbelievably high that the game has no chance to actually succeed in their eyes. When games are routinely considered a failure within the first few weeks of launch, and when a hope filled community turns into the torch and pitchfork masses.

    Nothing is ever going to be good enough for the majority of the community. The community as a whole will never look at itself as the major problem though. 
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,476
    At d20 all disappointments are the result of unmet expectations, in this case player  expectations. Those expectations may have been influenced by hype and or statements by the devs. 
    I'm going with this (not sure what d20 refers to?) but I have seen, more often than not, players build themselves up to a frenzy when, if they had calmer and more rational minds, they might put things in better perspective.

    Additionally, I have seen players take the comments of the devs and just run with them. They pretty much fill i the blanks with their own special narrative.

    This is not to say that all developers are angels (because I don't think that at all) but pretty much every mmo that has come out has been pretty close to what I thought it would be.

    The only exception was "Aion" and only because that was the first mmo that I had heard about from the start and it was reasonably early in my experience for mmo's (having played Lineage 2 and LOTRO and just trying EQ2 and Wow) and I didn't realize that what the devs said might not actually make it to the game. 

    That was the game that taught me perspective for mmo development.



  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,875
    The majority of players think that WoW is a good game.  Going by the numbers they have the largest group of players that stick with the game.  All other games pretty much wish they had that many subs.  I've been burnt out on WoW for awhile now but have some good memories of times spent on that game.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,210
    Over-hype and under-delivery.
    Absolutely THIS.  If developers AND their super-fans would just stop with all the hype like:

    • Why my game is important
    • Why my game is the only hope
    • Why we are a return to the roots of...
    • Why we are the "spiritual successor to"...
    They wouldn't get as much flack.  I currently have a decent amount of money spent on various Kickstarter games that interest me.  That very LAST thing I am going to do is shout out how great the game is going to be.  I will say why I THINK it could be good, but people get too personally invested in these games. Many times in ones that aren't even out and they haven't even played.

    There is no need to hype games that will be ready (?) in 2018 (see recent "SOL Dev journal on this site").  It's silly and we have ALL seen this movie before and know how it tragically ends.  Produce a kickass game, OVER deliver to your customers.. and you will have a license to print money.   "Over-hype and under-delivery" is a proven way to kill your game.  So unless you are interested in a quick pump and dump, there is really no reason to do so.


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  • JDis25JDis25 Member RarePosts: 1,350
    Repetition, we need more "Make your own content" games. Tired of the scripted stuff.
    Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War
    Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
  • d_20d_20 Member RarePosts: 1,878
    edited October 2015
    Sovrath said: [...]

    The only exception was "Aion" and only because that was the first mmo that I had heard about from the start and it was reasonably early in my experience for mmo's (having played Lineage 2 and LOTRO and just trying EQ2 and Wow) and I didn't realize that what the devs said might not actually make it to the game. 

    That was the game that taught me perspective for mmo development.
    For me it was Age of Conan and Warhammer Online. This was in 2008, if I remember correctly.  After that, I was not disappointed or suckered again until the infamous ArcheAge Alpha Access package and subsequent changes. That one taught me another lesson about buying early access to games trusting the past reputation of a publisher or developer.

    I've been a little disappointed with ESO, but I always have mixed feelings. This game has frustrated me a lot, but at the same time, I've had a lot of fun with it. That one is a case of the game not meeting my expectations. Nevertheless, ESO is a good game for its target audience. I'm still trying to decide if I'm that audience or not.

    Finally, Darkfall. Specifically the Darkfall 2010 that was never delivered and the developer of that game, Aventurine. I don't want to say more about it. If you're not familiar with the matter, just check the game-specific forums.

    So it looks like we have polarized opinions as usual.


    (Expectations: Blame Consumer)------------------------------------------------(Hype: Blame Devs)

    Like with anything, the truth is probably somewhere in between, in most cases.



  • jc234jc234 Member UncommonPosts: 91
    1. Expectations of the players (this needs to go. Companies WILL bold and highlight your nostalgia as a selling point, this doesn't mean a duty nor obligation to provide for your internal battles)
    2. Over-promise and under-deliver of the company (like all business)
    3. Transparency between publishers/devs to customers needs to happen, ignoring business practices
    4. Innovation in this area is scarce, practically zero R&D for coding and the possibilities of it unless someone comes up with a design first (unsure about this one as I don't have specified knowledge on this)
    5. History teaches us to fall in line, hence the endless churning of the same genre to avoid disappoint and failure
    6. Need people in the industry who are actually affluent at PLAYING games and understanding the META, not just the surface fun.

    I think the main factors here are not so much to do with the games/technology themselves. Rather, the business practices and psyche of humans.
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,324
    Meh.

    This quickly deterioated into a "the game doesnt meet my expectations at release because I didnt do careful enough research and didnt have realistic expectations" complains thread.

    I think the real disappointments are from games that you actually enjoy playing. The worst offense being them shutting down. I still miss playing Vanguard.




    Xeno.phon said:
    For me its:

    Global cool down timers
    Lack of immersive gameplay mechanisms like player housing or poorly made maps
    Publishers
    Promises not being kept on launch
    Poorly coordinated launches
    Monthly sub fee's for substandard games
    WOW clones... and WOW
    Click 1-5 to win style MMO
    Paywalls
    Toxic Communities
    Shallow gameplay that is obviously just trying to cover up a cash grab game
    Too Easy

    Unfortunately my list covers about every mmo out today, the last MMO I truly enjoyed was probably ff11 and Vanguard SoH... though vanguard was a kind of guilty pleasure. I started the game at launch and fell in love with it. After Brad sold us all out and his programmers nuked the code the game was an absolute mess... but I still had love for it. Also loved Tabula Rasa, before Lord Dickish abandoned it to go to space.

    The only thing worse than a bad developer, is a developer that can make a great game and destroy it with their ego and or greed.

    And yet Vanguard violates multiple entries of your list. Global cooldown was present. Certainly the launch was butchered since it was too early. And its an EQ clone, thus very compareable to WoW.

    Just for the record there - if a MMO doesnt have global cooldown, I'm not interested. Global cooldown means the guy with the lower ping (usually me) still stands a chance, and it means the game focuses more on thinking than just reflexes.

    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,628
    I have to first of all expect something from a game to which there has only been a few in the last 10 years.
    Since there has only been about 2-3 games i expected to be really good i'll focus on the one....FFXIV.

    I followed intensely,was disappointed in very single decision they were making and everything i saw,so in a way i was already not expecting much on release.After release all that was left was to see the final product and what i saw was a complete streamlined semi copy of FFXI but in a cheaper rushed way.

    They basically took all the bad ideas and continued them while eliminating the good ones,so i was like wtf,who on earth is running this show.Then i saw them toss Tanaka under the bridge,but i knew better,i knew what Tanaka was about,no way was this his work.A few months later the truth comes out,Tanaka was told to let the new guys have their input into the game,he basically was just their to idk be the face but it was most certainly not his game.

    Since he has left i have seen this same terrible direction in game design,it is imo total rubbish,the only quality left is their graphics and story and lore  but they even went cheap on voice overs.

    Every game since then has to me just been a bunch of advertisements on this site and every site, a ton of VERY low quality game yes MUCH worse than FFXIV.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Member UncommonPosts: 5,619
    I'm disappointed in the genres inability to evolve past war themed mmos.  There's nothing virtual world about it.  It's just a million and one ways to defeat your enemies. Fucking tired.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,476
    d_20 said:
    Sovrath said: [...]

    The only exception was "Aion" and only because that was the first mmo that I had heard about from the start and it was reasonably early in my experience for mmo's (having played Lineage 2 and LOTRO and just trying EQ2 and Wow) and I didn't realize that what the devs said might not actually make it to the game. 

    That was the game that taught me perspective for mmo development.
    For me it was Age of Conan and Warhammer Online. This was in 2008, if I remember correctly.  After that, I was not disappointed or suckered again until the infamous ArcheAge Alpha Access package and subsequent changes. That one taught me another lesson about buying early access to games trusting the past reputation of a publisher or developer.

    I've been a little disappointed with ESO, but I always have mixed feelings. This game has frustrated me a lot, but at the same time, I've had a lot of fun with it. That one is a case of the game not meeting my expectations. Nevertheless, ESO is a good game for its target audience. I'm still trying to decide if I'm that audience or not.

    Finally, Darkfall. Specifically the Darkfall 2010 that was never delivered and the developer of that game, Aventurine. I don't want to say more about it. If you're not familiar with the matter, just check the game-specific forums.

    So it looks like we have polarized opinions as usual.


    (Expectations: Blame Consumer)------------------------------------------------(Hype: Blame Devs)

    Like with anything, the truth is probably somewhere in between, in most cases.


    Don't get me wrong, I'm highly disappointed in ESO. Highly.

    But that's only because they didn't make the game I would have liked. Not because I think they made a bad game.

    I don't blame hype on the devs at all provided they are telling the truth. Meaning, what you see in the game are the features that the devs said would be in the game.

    If they use a lot of adjectives then I discount them as that is subjective. I don't blame them for describing things as exciting as possible as long as the bullet points are all there.

    I feel it's the players' fault for internalizing those adjectives with their own flavor. Essentially telling their own narrative.

    I've used this example for before but there was a point when one of the devs said that SWToR would have epic combat. A player on this forum railed against that as he didn't think the combat was "epic".

    Well what does that really mean? When I played SWToR it was EXACTLY the game I thought it would be.

    But epic combat? Well that can mean anything. The combat is SWToR is flashy and the animations are fast and well done for the most part. It's certainly more exciting than having two avatars take slow swings at each other.

    Is that epic? To some I'm sure but to others they might look to other factors. But that's subjective. Clearly the devs felt they were making epic combat based upon certain factors.

    It's up to the players to bring those li'l brains of theirs and realize that you can't buy into subjective statements. You can buy into the bullet points for features and then evaluate those features on whether or not they do what is said they will do.



  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    Anything that let me go "Oh no, not this shit again"

  • TatsuyaHirokiTatsuyaHiroki Member UncommonPosts: 108
    if the game looks even remotely like yet another wow copy, be it design choice or combat system is what makes me immediately turn off an mmo and/or when the main gameplay consist of non-stop mindless grinding with no goal

    image

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,772
    There's nothing virtual world about it. 
    Virtual world has been tried in games like The Second Life, and that is not anywhere close to be as successful as combat centric games. Look at LoL .. it is nothing but jump in and combat.

    The only games that have some virtual world feel are the survival ones. Other than that, i think you probably won't see much of virtual world.

    In fact, if you look at combat centric games .. they are increasingly LESS virtual world (from EQ to WOW to focused convenient combat games like warframe or Marvel Heroes). 
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