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Star Citizen | Death of a Salesman | MMORPG

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Comments

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591

    I'd be concerned about the level of detail. Fraudsters are absolutely viral these days, always cooking up new schemes. Now I'm concerned if this is the case here where I live, my taxes are of no ones concern except the government.


    Privacy is a pretty big value here in Canada.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Gorilla said:
    I personally think that people that pledge funds through crowdfunding should enjoy similar levels of accountability and protection that regular investors would.  

    Can you access companies tax returns in the USA? you can for a  modest fee in the UK.
    Well they don't and they decided to give away that money anyway. So I say tough titters. Crying about accountability now is like thinking you should have worn a parachute AFTER you've already jumped out of the plane.

    History shows us that when you have no accountability, no matter the type of business or business model, bad things happen.


    Trouble is the bad things have to happen first before they put some common sense rules in place and the bad things always happen.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    laserit said:
    Gorilla said:
    I personally think that people that pledge funds through crowdfunding should enjoy similar levels of accountability and protection that regular investors would.  

    Can you access companies tax returns in the USA? you can for a  modest fee in the UK.
    Well they don't and they decided to give away that money anyway. So I say tough titters. Crying about accountability now is like thinking you should have worn a parachute AFTER you've already jumped out of the plane.

    History shows us that when you have no accountability, no matter the type of business or business model, bad things happen.


    Trouble is the bad things have to happen first before they put some common sense rules in place and the bad things always happen.

    I'm sorry but the "bad things will happen" argument doesn't sway me. Its easy to sit back and say things like that without having to show one shred of evidence to back it up. Criminalizing someone without due process of proof of wrong doing is moronic. Cite some relevant examples to back up your claim. Show me evidence, not insinuations, not what some bloke in pub told you, where SC is guilty of mismanagement or corruption. Show me on the doll where Chris Roberts touched you, as it were.

    Kickstarter has rules in place to keep people from just taking the money and doing a runner. If you and others don't think that's enough lobby against them to change their rules. Demonizing companies that have been funded by these legal rules based on some arbitrary "its all going to go wrong" paranoia, in hindsight, is bullshit.

    Once again, 83% of Kickstarter games successfully funded by the end of 2013 have shipped. Less than 3% have actually said they are on hiatus or they have suspended development. So, yeah...... we may want to try solving a problem that is actually a problem. I hear world hunger is still happening, maybe we should revisit that one. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    laserit said:
    Gorilla said:
    I personally think that people that pledge funds through crowdfunding should enjoy similar levels of accountability and protection that regular investors would.  

    Can you access companies tax returns in the USA? you can for a  modest fee in the UK.
    Well they don't and they decided to give away that money anyway. So I say tough titters. Crying about accountability now is like thinking you should have worn a parachute AFTER you've already jumped out of the plane.

    History shows us that when you have no accountability, no matter the type of business or business model, bad things happen.


    Trouble is the bad things have to happen first before they put some common sense rules in place and the bad things always happen.

    I'm sorry but the "bad things will happen" argument doesn't sway me. Its easy to sit back and say things like that without having to show one shred of evidence to back it up. Criminalizing someone without due process of proof of wrong doing is moronic. Cite some relevant examples to back up your claim. Show me evidence, not insinuations, not what some bloke in pub told you, where SC is guilty of mismanagement or corruption. Show me on the doll where Chris Roberts touched you, as it were.

    Kickstarter has rules in place to keep people from just taking the money and doing a runner. If you and others don't think that's enough lobby against them to change their rules. Demonizing companies that have been funded by these legal rules based on some arbitrary "its all going to go wrong" paranoia, in hindsight, is bullshit.

    My statements have zero to do with SC and everything to do  with  crowdfunding. It just ripe for scams, easy come easy go and all.


    How about you give me one example of any industry that has managed to stay honest without rules and regulations.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    laserit said:
    laserit said:
    Gorilla said:
    I personally think that people that pledge funds through crowdfunding should enjoy similar levels of accountability and protection that regular investors would.  

    Can you access companies tax returns in the USA? you can for a  modest fee in the UK.
    Well they don't and they decided to give away that money anyway. So I say tough titters. Crying about accountability now is like thinking you should have worn a parachute AFTER you've already jumped out of the plane.

    History shows us that when you have no accountability, no matter the type of business or business model, bad things happen.


    Trouble is the bad things have to happen first before they put some common sense rules in place and the bad things always happen.

    I'm sorry but the "bad things will happen" argument doesn't sway me. Its easy to sit back and say things like that without having to show one shred of evidence to back it up. Criminalizing someone without due process of proof of wrong doing is moronic. Cite some relevant examples to back up your claim. Show me evidence, not insinuations, not what some bloke in pub told you, where SC is guilty of mismanagement or corruption. Show me on the doll where Chris Roberts touched you, as it were.

    Kickstarter has rules in place to keep people from just taking the money and doing a runner. If you and others don't think that's enough lobby against them to change their rules. Demonizing companies that have been funded by these legal rules based on some arbitrary "its all going to go wrong" paranoia, in hindsight, is bullshit.

    My statements have zero to do with SC and everything to do  with  crowdfunding. It just ripe for scams, easy come easy go and all.


    How about you give me one example of any industry that has managed to stay honest without rules and regulations.


    Again, there are rules and regulations. Again 83% of games funded as of the end of 2013 have shipped. only 3% are on hiatus or officially cancelled. Yes.... crowdfunding is rife with corruption. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • UnleadedRevUnleadedRev Member UncommonPosts: 568
    AWESOME ARTICLE!!!!! I would like to add that when Star Citizen falls it will fall hard and it will fall fast. In addition, it will destroy all PC Game Founders, Early Access, and other Pay to Play Alpha or Pre-Alpha programs due to the RIP OFF that Star Citizen is. No PC Gamer will ever buy a game again unless its upon release. Don't we PC Gamer's ever learn our lesson?
  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    edited October 2015
    You know if people feel KS needs to be looked at and needs government oversite then make a petition at https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/ am sure you would get the 100k sigs. Or you can also make one for oversite on CIG.

    Just saying and then it would settle it once and for all. 
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    CrazKanuk said:
    laserit said:
    laserit said:
    Gorilla said:
    I personally think that people that pledge funds through crowdfunding should enjoy similar levels of accountability and protection that regular investors would.  

    Can you access companies tax returns in the USA? you can for a  modest fee in the UK.
    Well they don't and they decided to give away that money anyway. So I say tough titters. Crying about accountability now is like thinking you should have worn a parachute AFTER you've already jumped out of the plane.

    History shows us that when you have no accountability, no matter the type of business or business model, bad things happen.


    Trouble is the bad things have to happen first before they put some common sense rules in place and the bad things always happen.

    I'm sorry but the "bad things will happen" argument doesn't sway me. Its easy to sit back and say things like that without having to show one shred of evidence to back it up. Criminalizing someone without due process of proof of wrong doing is moronic. Cite some relevant examples to back up your claim. Show me evidence, not insinuations, not what some bloke in pub told you, where SC is guilty of mismanagement or corruption. Show me on the doll where Chris Roberts touched you, as it were.

    Kickstarter has rules in place to keep people from just taking the money and doing a runner. If you and others don't think that's enough lobby against them to change their rules. Demonizing companies that have been funded by these legal rules based on some arbitrary "its all going to go wrong" paranoia, in hindsight, is bullshit.

    My statements have zero to do with SC and everything to do  with  crowdfunding. It just ripe for scams, easy come easy go and all.


    How about you give me one example of any industry that has managed to stay honest without rules and regulations.


    Again, there are rules and regulations. Again 83% of games funded as of the end of 2013 have shipped. only 3% are on hiatus or officially cancelled. Yes.... crowdfunding is rife with corruption. 
    This is the wrong place to debate this. I don't know if you're being sarcastic with your last sentence. 

    Crowfunding is a cross between a private company, a public company and a charity. It should be treated as such.

    It's human nature to be a lot more inefficient when you're playing with other people's money. That problem only compounds when you have little to no accountability.

    It's bad enough with public companies. I've been to enough bankruptcy auctions over the years to see the stupid crap companies spend other people's money on. Fancy board room bullshit to impress people into thinking that the company makes a lot of money. All the office furniture in my company is all bought for 5 cents on the dollar off of the jokers who went bankrupt. The auctioneers can't get rid of all the crap.

    I've also made a lot of the crap, metal stuff. They spend 5-6 figures just on interior designers to which I automatically triple my price to cover the pain in the ass factor because 9 out of 10 waste so much of your time and are such a pain in the ass to deal with. I've been dealing with one for the last six months, can't make up her fucking mind, sample this change that, back to this, all with other "investor's" money. Million dollar board rooms.

    There is even less accountability with Crowdfunding. You're playing with other people's money on a promise and there needs to be the ability for oversight, just like a public company. Would there be a lot of drama (being in the entertainment business and all) You bet your ass, but I guess it's a price that should be paid when you're risking other people's money.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    laserit said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    laserit said:
    laserit said:
    Gorilla said:
    I personally think that people that pledge funds through crowdfunding should enjoy similar levels of accountability and protection that regular investors would.  

    Can you access companies tax returns in the USA? you can for a  modest fee in the UK.
    Well they don't and they decided to give away that money anyway. So I say tough titters. Crying about accountability now is like thinking you should have worn a parachute AFTER you've already jumped out of the plane.

    History shows us that when you have no accountability, no matter the type of business or business model, bad things happen.


    Trouble is the bad things have to happen first before they put some common sense rules in place and the bad things always happen.

    I'm sorry but the "bad things will happen" argument doesn't sway me. Its easy to sit back and say things like that without having to show one shred of evidence to back it up. Criminalizing someone without due process of proof of wrong doing is moronic. Cite some relevant examples to back up your claim. Show me evidence, not insinuations, not what some bloke in pub told you, where SC is guilty of mismanagement or corruption. Show me on the doll where Chris Roberts touched you, as it were.

    Kickstarter has rules in place to keep people from just taking the money and doing a runner. If you and others don't think that's enough lobby against them to change their rules. Demonizing companies that have been funded by these legal rules based on some arbitrary "its all going to go wrong" paranoia, in hindsight, is bullshit.

    My statements have zero to do with SC and everything to do  with  crowdfunding. It just ripe for scams, easy come easy go and all.


    How about you give me one example of any industry that has managed to stay honest without rules and regulations.


    Again, there are rules and regulations. Again 83% of games funded as of the end of 2013 have shipped. only 3% are on hiatus or officially cancelled. Yes.... crowdfunding is rife with corruption. 
    This is the wrong place to debate this. I don't know if you're being sarcastic with your last sentence. 

    Crowfunding is a cross between a private company, a public company and a charity. It should be treated as such.

    It's human nature to be a lot more inefficient when you're playing with other people's money. That problem only compounds when you have little to no accountability.

    It's bad enough with public companies. I've been to enough bankruptcy auctions over the years to see the stupid crap companies spend other people's money on. Fancy board room bullshit to impress people into thinking that the company makes a lot of money. All the office furniture in my company is all bought for 5 cents on the dollar off of the jokers who went bankrupt. The auctioneers can't get rid of all the crap.

    I've also made a lot of the crap, metal stuff. They spend 5-6 figures just on interior designers to which I automatically triple my price to cover the pain in the ass factor because 9 out of 10 waste so much of your time and are such a pain in the ass to deal with. I've been dealing with one for the last six months, can't make up her fucking mind, sample this change that, back to this, all with other "investor's" money. Million dollar board rooms.

    There is even less accountability with Crowdfunding. You're playing with other people's money on a promise and there needs to be the ability for oversight, just like a public company. Would there be a lot of drama (being in the entertainment business and all) You bet your ass, but I guess it's a price that should be paid when you're risking other people's money.

    By the way, yes that was sarcasm. 

    First of all, your argument is centred around public companies. There is one MASSIVE difference between crowdfunding and public companies. It's assumed that public companies have shit tons of money at their disposal. So who cares if we go over budget?!?!?!? We can just get more!!! Whereas, with a crowdfunded company, you're immediately accountable. You have X dollars to make this game and that's it! There's nothing left in the well. 

    Even VC-funded companies are different than crowdfunding. They're taking a chunk of the company, so who cares if we waste some of their money? They're getting some of this awesomeness!!!!

    Two completely different mentalities. 

    Remember that crowdfunded companies are always on trial in the court of public opinion, so if they do mess up, BAM!! Here comes the class action lawsuit. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    edited October 2015
    CrazKanuk said:
    laserit said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    laserit said:
    laserit said:
    Gorilla said:
    I personally think that people that pledge funds through crowdfunding should enjoy similar levels of accountability and protection that regular investors would.  

    Can you access companies tax returns in the USA? you can for a  modest fee in the UK.
    Well they don't and they decided to give away that money anyway. So I say tough titters. Crying about accountability now is like thinking you should have worn a parachute AFTER you've already jumped out of the plane.

    History shows us that when you have no accountability, no matter the type of business or business model, bad things happen.


    Trouble is the bad things have to happen first before they put some common sense rules in place and the bad things always happen.

    I'm sorry but the "bad things will happen" argument doesn't sway me. Its easy to sit back and say things like that without having to show one shred of evidence to back it up. Criminalizing someone without due process of proof of wrong doing is moronic. Cite some relevant examples to back up your claim. Show me evidence, not insinuations, not what some bloke in pub told you, where SC is guilty of mismanagement or corruption. Show me on the doll where Chris Roberts touched you, as it were.

    Kickstarter has rules in place to keep people from just taking the money and doing a runner. If you and others don't think that's enough lobby against them to change their rules. Demonizing companies that have been funded by these legal rules based on some arbitrary "its all going to go wrong" paranoia, in hindsight, is bullshit.

    My statements have zero to do with SC and everything to do  with  crowdfunding. It just ripe for scams, easy come easy go and all.


    How about you give me one example of any industry that has managed to stay honest without rules and regulations.


    Again, there are rules and regulations. Again 83% of games funded as of the end of 2013 have shipped. only 3% are on hiatus or officially cancelled. Yes.... crowdfunding is rife with corruption. 
    This is the wrong place to debate this. I don't know if you're being sarcastic with your last sentence. 

    Crowfunding is a cross between a private company, a public company and a charity. It should be treated as such.

    It's human nature to be a lot more inefficient when you're playing with other people's money. That problem only compounds when you have little to no accountability.

    It's bad enough with public companies. I've been to enough bankruptcy auctions over the years to see the stupid crap companies spend other people's money on. Fancy board room bullshit to impress people into thinking that the company makes a lot of money. All the office furniture in my company is all bought for 5 cents on the dollar off of the jokers who went bankrupt. The auctioneers can't get rid of all the crap.

    I've also made a lot of the crap, metal stuff. They spend 5-6 figures just on interior designers to which I automatically triple my price to cover the pain in the ass factor because 9 out of 10 waste so much of your time and are such a pain in the ass to deal with. I've been dealing with one for the last six months, can't make up her fucking mind, sample this change that, back to this, all with other "investor's" money. Million dollar board rooms.

    There is even less accountability with Crowdfunding. You're playing with other people's money on a promise and there needs to be the ability for oversight, just like a public company. Would there be a lot of drama (being in the entertainment business and all) You bet your ass, but I guess it's a price that should be paid when you're risking other people's money.

    By the way, yes that was sarcasm. 

    First of all, your argument is centred around public companies. There is one MASSIVE difference between crowdfunding and public companies. It's assumed that public companies have shit tons of money at their disposal. So who cares if we go over budget?!?!?!? We can just get more!!! Whereas, with a crowdfunded company, you're immediately accountable. You have X dollars to make this game and that's it! There's nothing left in the well. 

    Even VC-funded companies are different than crowdfunding. They're taking a chunk of the company, so who cares if we waste some of their money? They're getting some of this awesomeness!!!!

    Two completely different mentalities. 

    Remember that crowdfunded companies are always on trial in the court of public opinion, so if they do mess up, BAM!! Here comes the class action lawsuit. 
    Uhm.... Didn't Crowfall recently have an additional crowdfunding for a camera man? Not saying anything is amiss with crowfall but kind of negates "You have X amount of dollars to make this game and that's it" Weren't they asking for 80k? how much did they get? Hmm just went to their site and you can "pledge" isn't that what you do at a telethon? or charity? Maybe the word "pledge" has less legal ramifications than the word "pre-order" so why do they use the word  "pledge" instead of the word "pre-order"?

    www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pledge

    a serious promise or agreement. : a promise to give money. : something that you leave with another person as a way to show that you will keep your promise.

    Remember you're the one that's "pledging" not them.

     As I said previously I'm not implying that anything is amiss with Crowfall but first we had the successful KS and now additional fundraising is in full swing, stretch goals and all.

    I'm sure the lawyers have been all over this shit when it's devised. I'm no lawyer but a class action lawsuit might be a little more difficult than what you're thinking. You also don't get blood out of stone, if there's nothing left, what the heck are you going to achieve with a class action.

    Again, my thoughts are not about individual projects, my thoughts are about crowdfunding as a whole. There will always be the scammers and crooks and as far as crowdfunding goes, it's kind of like the wild west right now.




    Post edited by laserit on

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    laserit said:
    CrazKanuk said:

    By the way, yes that was sarcasm. 

    First of all, your argument is centred around public companies. There is one MASSIVE difference between crowdfunding and public companies. It's assumed that public companies have shit tons of money at their disposal. So who cares if we go over budget?!?!?!? We can just get more!!! Whereas, with a crowdfunded company, you're immediately accountable. You have X dollars to make this game and that's it! There's nothing left in the well. 

    Even VC-funded companies are different than crowdfunding. They're taking a chunk of the company, so who cares if we waste some of their money? They're getting some of this awesomeness!!!!

    Two completely different mentalities. 

    Remember that crowdfunded companies are always on trial in the court of public opinion, so if they do mess up, BAM!! Here comes the class action lawsuit. 
    Uhm.... Didn't Crowfall recently have an additional crowdfunding for a camera man? Not saying anything is amiss with crowfall but kind of negates "You have X amount of dollars to make this game and that's it" Weren't they asking for 80k? how much did they get? Hmm just went to their site and you can "pledge" isn't that what you do at a telethon? or charity? Maybe the word "pledge" has less legal ramifications than the word "pre-order" so why do they use the word  "pledge" instead of the word "pre-order"?

    www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pledge

    a serious promise or agreement. : a promise to give money. : something that you leave with another person as a way to show that you will keep your promise.

    Remember you're the one that's "pledging" not them.

     As I said previously I'm not implying that anything is amiss with Crowfall but first we had the successful KS and now additional fundraising is in full swing, stretch goals and all.

    I'm sure the lawyers have been all over this shit when it's devised. I'm no lawyer but a class action lawsuit might be a little more difficult than what you're thinking.

    Again I'm not talking about individual projects, my thoughts are about crowdfunding as a whole.



    I'm currently a backer on 4 or 5 projects and I can tell you that there are always back room deals. There always has been, since I can remember. You ALWAYS have the option of upgrading your order, there are always add-ons, they always expand the stretch goals. At that point, though, you've committed to making that game. The difference between not shipping a game that had 50 backers and $5000 and not shipping a game that had 1,000,000 backers and $100,000,000 in funding is fairly substantial. 

    Fundraising won't stop on these games. Why would they? Why would you take the risk of not delivering your game? You should always be fundraising. If there are people willing to fund it, then why stop? By the way, as arbitrary as raising 80k for a cameraman or a blogger or a barista might be, what does it matter? If people are going to fund it, then they're going to fund it. The people have spoken!!! Oh! and in the case above, that's actually pretty transparent. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    CrazKanuk said:
    laserit said:
    CrazKanuk said:

    By the way, yes that was sarcasm. 

    First of all, your argument is centred around public companies. There is one MASSIVE difference between crowdfunding and public companies. It's assumed that public companies have shit tons of money at their disposal. So who cares if we go over budget?!?!?!? We can just get more!!! Whereas, with a crowdfunded company, you're immediately accountable. You have X dollars to make this game and that's it! There's nothing left in the well. 

    Even VC-funded companies are different than crowdfunding. They're taking a chunk of the company, so who cares if we waste some of their money? They're getting some of this awesomeness!!!!

    Two completely different mentalities. 

    Remember that crowdfunded companies are always on trial in the court of public opinion, so if they do mess up, BAM!! Here comes the class action lawsuit. 
    Uhm.... Didn't Crowfall recently have an additional crowdfunding for a camera man? Not saying anything is amiss with crowfall but kind of negates "You have X amount of dollars to make this game and that's it" Weren't they asking for 80k? how much did they get? Hmm just went to their site and you can "pledge" isn't that what you do at a telethon? or charity? Maybe the word "pledge" has less legal ramifications than the word "pre-order" so why do they use the word  "pledge" instead of the word "pre-order"?

    www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pledge

    a serious promise or agreement. : a promise to give money. : something that you leave with another person as a way to show that you will keep your promise.

    Remember you're the one that's "pledging" not them.

     As I said previously I'm not implying that anything is amiss with Crowfall but first we had the successful KS and now additional fundraising is in full swing, stretch goals and all.

    I'm sure the lawyers have been all over this shit when it's devised. I'm no lawyer but a class action lawsuit might be a little more difficult than what you're thinking.

    Again I'm not talking about individual projects, my thoughts are about crowdfunding as a whole.



    I'm currently a backer on 4 or 5 projects and I can tell you that there are always back room deals. There always has been, since I can remember. You ALWAYS have the option of upgrading your order, there are always add-ons, they always expand the stretch goals. At that point, though, you've committed to making that game. The difference between not shipping a game that had 50 backers and $5000 and not shipping a game that had 1,000,000 backers and $100,000,000 in funding is fairly substantial. 

    Fundraising won't stop on these games. Why would they? Why would you take the risk of not delivering your game? You should always be fundraising. If there are people willing to fund it, then why stop? By the way, as arbitrary as raising 80k for a cameraman or a blogger or a barista might be, what does it matter? If people are going to fund it, then they're going to fund it. The people have spoken!!! Oh! and in the case above, that's actually pretty transparent. 
    My concerns are not with the honest or fiscally responsible one's. My concerns are with the dishonest and/or fiscally irresponsible ones.

    You need proper rules, regulations and oversight to protect everyone involved including crowdfunding itself.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] CommonPosts: 0
    edited October 2015
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    I thought it was a well written piece and see no reason to remove it. 
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] CommonPosts: 0
    edited October 2015
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • reeereeereeereee Member UncommonPosts: 1,636
    fallacy can't support fallacy to creat facts. This article is another fallacy built round many fallacies.
    To clarify, is your position that the ex-employees are lying to get back at their former employer or that they don't exist and are just being made up by people to try and damage Star Citizen? 
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] CommonPosts: 0
    edited October 2015
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • Moon-DaddyMoon-Daddy Member UncommonPosts: 101
    edited October 2015
    reeereee said:
    fallacy can't support fallacy to creat facts. This article is another fallacy built round many fallacies.
    To clarify, is your position that the ex-employees are lying to get back at their former employer or that they don't exist and are just being made up by people to try and damage Star Citizen? 
    until names are released, these people don't exist.

    If these people where released, then they obviously didnt have what was needed to make the game a success.
    This,
    If they genuinely had an issue, they would file a report, or contact representation to their claim, instead of this immature reaction we are seeing, most likely from angry backers/non backers forming their own opinions

    Facts are needed to support all these claims, if people don't seem to mind claims not being backed up then I can say im the king of France.

    Its like reading a headline to a news story and going off from that.
    Because as far as what legitimately has been said, is that "people are mad"

    Making so much noise you dont know when to listen.

  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    Thing is in journalism normally you just need 3 witnesses, they had 7, 2 were not used.  No matter how much you and others want to know who they are it will never happen. You can take the Journalist to court and try to have him/her to release the names but that would be a long shot of happening. 

    Now if CIG can prove it was all a lie then that is a whole different ball game. But so far we have seen nothing from CIG in taking this to court. So in reality CIG is saying in their silence it is true. 

    After everything CR said in his letter and what his lawyer said I really expected there to be something filed by now. 
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • Xeno.phonXeno.phon Member UncommonPosts: 350
    I dont see how customers have any more of a right to the RSI books than we do as customers to the Blizzard books.

    We are not investors as crowd funders, we are customers, though legally we are not even that, we are donators.

    All of this is really unsettling honestly, what makes you think that any of you have the right to judge RSI in anything until they have released, or not?

    In the court of law all of this is called conjecture and hearsay. Until RSI doesnt deliver none of us have any right to do anything but wait and see. To think otherwise is just audacity.
  • ThourneThourne Member RarePosts: 757
    Brenics said:
    Now if CIG can prove it was all a lie then that is a whole different ball game. But so far we have seen nothing from CIG in taking this to court. So in reality CIG is saying in their silence it is true. 

    After everything CR said in his letter and what his lawyer said I really expected there to be something filed by now. 
    Actually all silence says is it just isn't worth the trouble.
  • FomaldehydeJimFomaldehydeJim Member UncommonPosts: 673
    It is two corroborating sources that are adequate to go to print. Whistle blowers remain anonymous for many reasons, not least because there's a stigma attached that may harm future employment opportunities.

    CIG did respond with a pseudo legal cease and desist letter from their co-founder. It is unlikely that they had instructed lawyers at this stage as the letter was actually incredibly harmful to CIGs case should this proceed to court.

    Normally you do not threaten legal action unless you intend to follow through.
  • Moon-DaddyMoon-Daddy Member UncommonPosts: 101
    edited October 2015
    Brenics said:
    Thing is in journalism normally you just need 3 witnesses, they had 7, 2 were not used.  No matter how much you and others want to know who they are it will never happen. You can take the Journalist to court and try to have him/her to release the names but that would be a long shot of happening.
    Actually you can take them to court, its called defamation, each journalist who puts their name to a report/article is putting not only their reputation on the line but that of their company and those who they represent not to mention the responsibility to represent their findings in a court if summoned.
    However being that no real human rights/equality issues are being raised i doubt we will see it.

    Even in this article they fail to honor both sides of the story, thus making it a motivated piece, taking it far out of objectivity and into opinion, which is not reporting its just making noise. Ofcourse the rise of Opinion journalists have given people an idea that its ok to report for the sake of making a story, instead of looking for an angle with the facts that are presented to them.

    Making so much noise you dont know when to listen.

  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    Brenics said:
    Thing is in journalism normally you just need 3 witnesses, they had 7, 2 were not used.  No matter how much you and others want to know who they are it will never happen. You can take the Journalist to court and try to have him/her to release the names but that would be a long shot of happening.
    Actually you can take them to court, its called defamation, each journalist who puts their name to a report/article is putting not only their reputation on the line but that of their company and those who they represent not to mention the responsibility to represent their findings in a court if summoned.
    However being that no real human rights/equality issues are being raised i doubt we will see it.

    Even in this article they fail to honor both sides of the story, thus making it a motivated piece, taking it far out of objectivity and into opinion, which is not reporting its just making noise. Ofcourse the rise of Opinion journalists have given people an idea that its ok to report for the sake of making a story, instead of looking for an angle with the facts that are presented to them.
    I have read a bunch of articles where just the witnesses side was brought and the accused has a right to speak up after it has been written. I do not think there is any law or standard where you have to take both sides of story in one article. I believe and tell me if am wrong they just have to inform the one side what they are going to print. I believe that was done and even if the written response didn't go into spam folder they did not have to put it in original article. 

    OH Cubs WON!
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    Brenics said:
    Brenics said:
    Thing is in journalism normally you just need 3 witnesses, they had 7, 2 were not used.  No matter how much you and others want to know who they are it will never happen. You can take the Journalist to court and try to have him/her to release the names but that would be a long shot of happening.
    Actually you can take them to court, its called defamation, each journalist who puts their name to a report/article is putting not only their reputation on the line but that of their company and those who they represent not to mention the responsibility to represent their findings in a court if summoned.
    However being that no real human rights/equality issues are being raised i doubt we will see it.

    Even in this article they fail to honor both sides of the story, thus making it a motivated piece, taking it far out of objectivity and into opinion, which is not reporting its just making noise. Ofcourse the rise of Opinion journalists have given people an idea that its ok to report for the sake of making a story, instead of looking for an angle with the facts that are presented to them.
    I have read a bunch of articles where just the witnesses side was brought and the accused has a right to speak up after it has been written. I do not think there is any law or standard where you have to take both sides of story in one article. I believe and tell me if am wrong they just have to inform the one side what they are going to print. I believe that was done and even if the written response didn't go into spam folder they did not have to put it in original article. 

    OH Cubs WON!
    Asking the accused is a courtesy nothing more. There is zero obligation to even inform the accused before you print an article. They did even wait for a reply and we don't know if the spam folder story is correct or if the Editor just forgot to check his mail. It does not matter.

    Right now we wait and see if the tiger that roared actually has claws, because the gazelle just showed him the middle finger.
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

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