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Plans for future?

JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Member RarePosts: 1,239
Cronicles of Elyria sounds intriguing, and I might consider backing it when/if you go Kickstarter, but before that there is couple very important questions about project's future:

  1. How big is your current team?
  2. What is your current budget?
  3. Roughly, for how much you plan to ask for on KS?
  4. What/who are your funding ideas/investors besides KS/pledges/your own money?
  5. How much money you think you need to launch the game (total money spent pre-launch, including your money, KS, post-KS pledges and everything else)?

Both games I am following closely, Crowfall and Camelot Unchained, have already answered (furthermore, in great detail and multiple times in some cases) each of these questions and I believe their transparency and open communication with backers should be the industry standard, at least speaking of KS games.

For comparison, I also asked Ryan Dancey (Pathfinder Online) something similar recently, in reply he wrote a textwall basically avoiding to answer and claiming that "more than 4 millions were invested so far" and that "at least 2-3 millions more will be invested". Two months later he left the company, and two weeks after that the game was basically shut down (if one can shut down the game that never launched and was years away from finished state).

Needless to say, all these millions were contradictory to both what followed and to the shoestring budget state the game was in. I hope that I won't get something as dodgy as what he wrote in reply to questions above!?
 W...aaagh?
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Comments

  • andre369andre369 Member UncommonPosts: 970
    From my 5 minutes of searching, it seems they cannot prove the screenshots on their website is reflective of any game they have developed. 

    Probably just built in a free engine and and added UI in PS. 

    Keep your wallet in your pocket till you see a playable product, videos from devs actually playing the game.

    Just as all other Kickstarters these days, the grass is always greener on the other side. Until you'r actually there. 

    Screenshots might be what they aim for, but is not representative of the product you will get. 

    /food for thought, no bashing intended. 
  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Member RarePosts: 1,239
    Problem is, 9 out of 10 indies will never se light of day if we keep our wallets in our pockets untill launch or even just alpha/beta (now, I agree that some of them should remain unlaunched and even un-KSed). I believe we are responsible for the future of the genre, but that doesn't mean throwing money on every new thing.

    I am willing to support BUT before that happens I'd like to be convinced (...or not!?) by detailed information of game's fundings, manpower and such, which often includes asking unpleasant questions. There is a ton of interesting MMO concepts floating around but only rare games are actually able to deliver.

    If we have enough info, it's possible to tell quite early in development whether this or that project has any chances of  even just launching, not to mention eventual success. Also, not having enough info can be quite indicative about project's future =)
     W...aaagh?
  • OldSchoolGamerOldSchoolGamer Member UncommonPosts: 190
    @JamesGoblin Anyone that has been on these forums since pre-launch of DFO knows I am no fan.  I have to disagree with you here.  DFO was in production for a decade with a small team and no budget, yet they launched a game still around today.  I used to agree with you, but after seeing what DFO pulled off, one can not tell future game success based on your criteria.  Dedication, commitment, and sweat equity to the cause are sometimes more valuable than all the money in the world.
  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Member RarePosts: 1,239
    @JamesGoblin Anyone that has been on these forums since pre-launch of DFO knows I am no fan.  I have to disagree with you here.  DFO was in production for a decade with a small team and no budget, yet they launched a game still around today.  I used to agree with you, but after seeing what DFO pulled off, one can not tell future game success based on your criteria.  Dedication, commitment, and sweat equity to the cause are sometimes more valuable than all the money in the world.
    My criteria is not all about the manpower and money, just these are the missing pieces of info. We should be aware of the vision, concepts, have some faith and bit of luck atop that. But funding is certainly not to be ignored.

    Furthermore, you will find couple more low budget exceptions, even in the MMO genre (Eve, DAoC etc.) but these are both quite rare and funding & budget are important piece of equation anyway, same as transparency or passion.

    I know indie devs like to go "Minecraft...blahblah...Eve...blahblah..." (or DFO blahblah =) ). Aforementioned Ryan Dicey had barely any posts without mentioning Eve, untill the very end (to remind you, PFO is practically shut down, years before launch).
     W...aaagh?
  • ZultraZultra Member UncommonPosts: 363
    andre369 said:
    From my 5 minutes of searching, it seems they cannot prove the screenshots on their website is reflective of any game they have developed. 

    Probably just built in a free engine and and added UI in PS. 

    Keep your wallet in your pocket till you see a playable product, videos from devs actually playing the game.

    Just as all other Kickstarters these days, the grass is always greener on the other side. Until you'r actually there. 

    Screenshots might be what they aim for, but is not representative of the product you will get. 

    /food for thought, no bashing intended. 
    You can be rest assured that the screenshots are from in-game, no filters or Photoshop was used.

    They are playing there cards tightly they are more developed then people give them credit for. 
    Sign up for Chronicles of Elyria here don't forget to use my friend code - B4ACB3

    Join the revolutionary MMO! 
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,209
    Kickstarter was designed to back "ideas" and "visions", not necessarily working products. If there was a working product, than they probably wouldn't need crowdfunding. However, SoulBound Studios seems to have accomplished everything in-house with their own money so far. I would definitely back the game now, if they were in the position to allow me to do so. I still have an extra $1000 sitting around that wasn't good enough for Crowfall that I'm sure Chronicles of Elyria wouldn't mind using. While I wouldn't necessarily call CoE a sandbox. It does seem to give the feel of a sandbox based on gameplay mechanics and features. As with all games, only time will tell. I just hope we aren't talking about a launch date of 5 years from now.

  • muffins89muffins89 Member UncommonPosts: 1,585
    I was under the impression that they were currently building a prototype.  then they were gonna use said prototype to get an investor or turn to kickstarter.
  • ZultraZultra Member UncommonPosts: 363
    muffins89 said:
    I was under the impression that they were currently building a prototype.  then they were gonna use said prototype to get an investor or turn to kickstarter.
    They are further along then people give credit for, it's just the user-end stuff they are working on mainly now. 
    Sign up for Chronicles of Elyria here don't forget to use my friend code - B4ACB3

    Join the revolutionary MMO! 
  • AlzuuleAlzuule Member UncommonPosts: 15
    edited October 2015
    andre369 said:
    From my 5 minutes of searching, it seems they cannot prove the screenshots on their website is reflective of any game they have developed. 

    Probably just built in a free engine and and added UI in PS. 

    Keep your wallet in your pocket till you see a playable product, videos from devs actually playing the game.

    Just as all other Kickstarters these days, the grass is always greener on the other side. Until you'r actually there. 

    Screenshots might be what they aim for, but is not representative of the product you will get. 

    /food for thought, no bashing intended. 

    The team behind CoE are previous AAA devs, although its a small team right now, and the game is running on the unreal engine. All screenshots are from ingame and this game have been in the works for over a year before they even published that they were making it.  if i remember correctly from talking with a dev on IRC the game started being worked on before 2010 ( as in planning, thinking up concepts etc ), so needless to say this isnt just an idea, but a project thats been in the works for a  long time. 



  • AlzuuleAlzuule Member UncommonPosts: 15
    Rhoklaw said:
    Kickstarter was designed to back "ideas" and "visions", not necessarily working products. If there was a working product, than they probably wouldn't need crowdfunding. However, SoulBound Studios seems to have accomplished everything in-house with their own money so far. I would definitely back the game now, if they were in the position to allow me to do so. I still have an extra $1000 sitting around that wasn't good enough for Crowfall that I'm sure Chronicles of Elyria wouldn't mind using. While I wouldn't necessarily call CoE a sandbox. It does seem to give the feel of a sandbox based on gameplay mechanics and features. As with all games, only time will tell. I just hope we aren't talking about a launch date of 5 years from now.
    They are planning to have a playable demo ready for pax east 2016 if thats any indication.
  • SilavenSilaven Member UncommonPosts: 13
    edited October 2015
    Cronicles of Elyria sounds intriguing, and I might consider backing it when/if you go Kickstarter, but before that there is couple very important questions about project's future:

    1. How big is your current team?
    2. What is your current budget?
    3. Roughly, for how much you plan to ask for on KS?
    4. What/who are your funding ideas/investors besides KS/pledges/your own money?
    5. How much money you think you need to launch the game (total money spent pre-launch, including your money, KS, post-KS pledges and everything else)?

    Both games I am following closely, Crowfall and Camelot Unchained, have already answered (furthermore, in great detail and multiple times in some cases) each of these questions and I believe their transparency and open communication with backers should be the industry standard, at least speaking of KS games.

    For comparison, I also asked Ryan Dancey (Pathfinder Online) something similar recently, in reply he wrote a textwall basically avoiding to answer and claiming that "more than 4 millions were invested so far" and that "at least 2-3 millions more will be invested". Two months later he left the company, and two weeks after that the game was basically shut down (if one can shut down the game that never launched and was years away from finished state).

    Needless to say, all these millions were contradictory to both what followed and to the shoestring budget state the game was in. I hope that I won't get something as dodgy as what he wrote in reply to questions above!?
    @JamesGoblin ;
    1. It is currently a small team. I have an idea as to the exact size but that's not for me to guess or disclose as it could be wrong/against the teams wishes. But I can say that two of the coders have more than 15 years experience in the gaming industry each. 

    2. Every dime that has been put into this game so far was funded by Jeromy "Caspian" Walsh which is around 500k and Im sure he has answered before in a post me and you both commented in... http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/6755046/#Comment_6755046

    Now other members of their team might have put in money of their own as well  but that I have no information for such claims at this moment in time.

    3. They have yet to disclose a budget and probably will not for a couple months id guess. They have said they do not plan to start a kickstarter until the community grows. I also think they dont want to do a kickstarter until they have more to show to the public but thats just my opinion.

    I cant answer the last two lol


  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Member RarePosts: 1,239
    Silaven said:
    Cronicles of Elyria sounds intriguing, and I might consider backing it when/if you go Kickstarter, but before that there is couple very important questions about project's future:

    1. How big is your current team?
    2. What is your current budget?
    3. Roughly, for how much you plan to ask for on KS?
    4. What/who are your funding ideas/investors besides KS/pledges/your own money?
    5. How much money you think you need to launch the game (total money spent pre-launch, including your money, KS, post-KS pledges and everything else)?

    Both games I am following closely, Crowfall and Camelot Unchained, have already answered (furthermore, in great detail and multiple times in some cases) each of these questions and I believe their transparency and open communication with backers should be the industry standard, at least speaking of KS games.

    For comparison, I also asked Ryan Dancey (Pathfinder Online) something similar recently, in reply he wrote a textwall basically avoiding to answer and claiming that "more than 4 millions were invested so far" and that "at least 2-3 millions more will be invested". Two months later he left the company, and two weeks after that the game was basically shut down (if one can shut down the game that never launched and was years away from finished state).

    Needless to say, all these millions were contradictory to both what followed and to the shoestring budget state the game was in. I hope that I won't get something as dodgy as what he wrote in reply to questions above!?
    @JamesGoblin ;
    1. It is currently a small team. I have an idea as to the exact size but that's not for me to guess or disclose as it could be wrong/against the teams wishes. But I can say that two of the coders have more than 15 years experience in the gaming industry each. 

    2. Every dime that has been put into this game so far was funded by Jeromy "Caspian" Walsh which is around 500k and Im sure he has answered before in a post me and you both commented in... http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/6755046/#Comment_6755046

    Now other members of their team might have put in money of their own as well  but that I have no information for such claims at this moment in time.

    3. They have yet to disclose a budget and probably will not for a couple months id guess. They have said they do not plan to start a kickstarter until the community grows. I also think they dont want to do a kickstarter until they have more to show to the public but thats just my opinion.

    I cant answer the last two lol



    @Silaven I know that the team is small, that JW invested 500k, that they are waiting for community to grow before eventual KS etc. I hope some of the devs will drop by and give me at least some dodgy answers, anything. Even that contains information, intended or not =)


    Anyway, thanks for the effort!

     W...aaagh?
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 15,907
    edited October 2015
    andre369 said:
    From my 5 minutes of searching, it seems they cannot prove the screenshots on their website is reflective of any game they have developed. 

    Probably just built in a free engine and and added UI in PS. 

    Keep your wallet in your pocket till you see a playable product, videos from devs actually playing the game.

    Just as all other Kickstarters these days, the grass is always greener on the other side. Until you'r actually there. 

    Screenshots might be what they aim for, but is not representative of the product you will get. 

    /food for thought, no bashing intended. 
    I agree but what does that say about the gaming community that gave Chris 80+ million for nothing more than 2d pictures of ships?he had NOTHING to show anyone when he started asking for money.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 15,907
    edited October 2015
    I personally feel this game sounds promising,has a few details that sound sketchy to me but still a game i can at least hope for with some promise.

    The last time i had any hope was for AA but soon i heard how much focus was on pvp and that Trion was running it i knew i would not play it.

    I did enjoy Vanguard,still had some flaws carried over from the EQ-EQ2 days but still  a solid game.

    To me that says a lot about the industry in general,i have only had a like for two mmo's since 2003 FFXI,and i bet there is literally thousands of developer's,that is a real low % of quality.Now mind you i have never played TESO so i can't say for certain there might not be one more quality game out there but it is still such a low % of quality but a very high % of crap out there.

    Point being,when i finally hear a game that has some promise ,i take note and listen.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • SilavenSilaven Member UncommonPosts: 13
    Silaven said:
    Cronicles of Elyria sounds intriguing, and I might consider backing it when/if you go Kickstarter, but before that there is couple very important questions about project's future:

    1. How big is your current team?
    2. What is your current budget?
    3. Roughly, for how much you plan to ask for on KS?
    4. What/who are your funding ideas/investors besides KS/pledges/your own money?
    5. How much money you think you need to launch the game (total money spent pre-launch, including your money, KS, post-KS pledges and everything else)?

    Both games I am following closely, Crowfall and Camelot Unchained, have already answered (furthermore, in great detail and multiple times in some cases) each of these questions and I believe their transparency and open communication with backers should be the industry standard, at least speaking of KS games.

    For comparison, I also asked Ryan Dancey (Pathfinder Online) something similar recently, in reply he wrote a textwall basically avoiding to answer and claiming that "more than 4 millions were invested so far" and that "at least 2-3 millions more will be invested". Two months later he left the company, and two weeks after that the game was basically shut down (if one can shut down the game that never launched and was years away from finished state).

    Needless to say, all these millions were contradictory to both what followed and to the shoestring budget state the game was in. I hope that I won't get something as dodgy as what he wrote in reply to questions above!?
    @JamesGoblin ;
    1. It is currently a small team. I have an idea as to the exact size but that's not for me to guess or disclose as it could be wrong/against the teams wishes. But I can say that two of the coders have more than 15 years experience in the gaming industry each. 

    2. Every dime that has been put into this game so far was funded by Jeromy "Caspian" Walsh which is around 500k and Im sure he has answered before in a post me and you both commented in... http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/6755046/#Comment_6755046

    Now other members of their team might have put in money of their own as well  but that I have no information for such claims at this moment in time.

    3. They have yet to disclose a budget and probably will not for a couple months id guess. They have said they do not plan to start a kickstarter until the community grows. I also think they dont want to do a kickstarter until they have more to show to the public but thats just my opinion.

    I cant answer the last two lol



    @Silaven I know that the team is small, that JW invested 500k, that they are waiting for community to grow before eventual KS etc. I hope some of the devs will drop by and give me at least some dodgy answers, anything. Even that contains information, intended or not =)


    Anyway, thanks for the effort!

    Ah, Okay I see your intentions now lol
  • AlzuuleAlzuule Member UncommonPosts: 15
    Also for anyone that wants more detailed information on this game i can highly recommend joining the IRC chat and checking it every now and then, alot of information is put out there that isnt taken beyond it and both screenshots and a video that havent been released to the public have been shown to some of the people there.
  • JeromyWalshJeromyWalsh Soulbound StudiosMember UncommonPosts: 134
    Hey James,

    Thanks for the invitation. As I've shared with others on different threads, and via IRC, I'm currently funding the company with my own life savings. I'm not rich, but I'm pouring everything I have (and taking on a reasonable amount of debt) because I believe in what we're doing. 

    When the time comes that we need to ask the community to help fund the development of the game - and that time will come, we'll do so with enough game-play footage, art assets, and engineering behind the campaign that everyone should feel comfortable with their investment and confident in our ability to deliver.

    We will also, at that time, be extremely transparent about how much we need, how we plan to spend the money, and what our burn-down is. 

    Cheers!
    Jeromy
    Jeromy Walsh, 
    Owner/CEO of Soulbound Studios
    ChroniclesOfElyria.com
  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Member RarePosts: 1,239
    Hey James,

    Thanks for the invitation. As I've shared with others on different threads, and via IRC, I'm currently funding the company with my own life savings. I'm not rich, but I'm pouring everything I have (and taking on a reasonable amount of debt) because I believe in what we're doing. 

    When the time comes that we need to ask the community to help fund the development of the game - and that time will come, we'll do so with enough game-play footage, art assets, and engineering behind the campaign that everyone should feel comfortable with their investment and confident in our ability to deliver.

    We will also, at that time, be extremely transparent about how much we need, how we plan to spend the money, and what our burn-down is. 

    Cheers!
    Jeromy

        OK I guessed you are not ready yet (still, I hoped for much more), thus I kinda expected reply in the manner of revealing nothing while promising a lot =)  Anyway, I hope we'll reach the "extremely transparent" phase soon enough.

        And of course, thanks for replying!

     W...aaagh?
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 15,907
    edited October 2015
    IRC....man o man i feel that is too archaic for me now a days,i haven't been in IRC since about the year 2002,when everyone was going around slapping others with a trout.

    There is a VERY fine line when comes to taking public feedback,in some or maybe most cases it is better to just promise a certain type of game and deliver it.Feedback can NEVER be adhered to because for every person you please another 10 are not happy.

    I only ask that developers try to be different,.i don't like what has happened to the market with thousands of games all playing the same but trying to convince us they are different.

    I might add that i ONLY like to see change where is needed,if ideas "make sense" then go with it,no need for public feedback.On that note PLEASE tell me i am not going to see rewards for stepping on new pixels of land and yellow question marks over npc heads and i will already be happy.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • JeromyWalshJeromyWalsh Soulbound StudiosMember UncommonPosts: 134
    We will continue to develop the game we want to play. We're not promising anything to anyone yet, as we're not asking anything of anyone.

    We will continue to work twice as hard as any other company in the industry, using our own blood, sweat, tears, and money, in an effort to create our dream game. A game that's been in design over a decade and which was first pitched back in 2008.

    Already the game consists of:
    • Aging, Dying, Reincarnation, & Immortals
    • A dynamic story engine guided by player conflict and destiny
    • Families & Genetics-based Character Creation
    • Dynamic character customization that causes your character model to change as you play
    • Scripted Offline Player Characters
    • New looting mechanics and systems for discouraging griefing
    • Contracts for creating unlimited number of metas and professions
    • A hierarchical skill system and Character Roles that encourage people to specialize in order to create a unique persona in the world
    • Custom Housing & subterranean construction
    • Disguises that allow you to create new identities
    And that's just the beginning. When we've finally revealed the full scope of the game and everything that defines Chronicles of Elyria, you'll know.
    Jeromy Walsh, 
    Owner/CEO of Soulbound Studios
    ChroniclesOfElyria.com
  • xxxxxx1xxxxxx1 Member UncommonPosts: 105
    We will continue to develop the game we want to play. We're not promising anything to anyone yet, as we're not asking anything of anyone.

    We will continue to work twice as hard as any other company in the industry, using our own blood, sweat, tears, and money, in an effort to create our dream game. A game that's been in design over a decade and which was first pitched back in 2008.

    Already the game consists of:
    • Aging, Dying, Reincarnation, & Immortals
    • A dynamic story engine guided by player conflict and destiny
    • Families & Genetics-based Character Creation
    • Dynamic character customization that causes your character model to change as you play
    • Scripted Offline Player Characters
    • New looting mechanics and systems for discouraging griefing
    • Contracts for creating unlimited number of metas and professions
    • A hierarchical skill system and Character Roles that encourage people to specialize in order to create a unique persona in the world
    • Custom Housing & subterranean construction
    • Disguises that allow you to create new identities
    And that's just the beginning. When we've finally revealed the full scope of the game and everything that defines Chronicles of Elyria, you'll know.
    =) Awesome! We'll looking forward to it.
  • SerylliousSeryllious Member UncommonPosts: 43
    From what I know of the game (which is a bit more than I probably should, considering I'm covering CoE as a pet project) - I think the speculation others have shown to be justified because of Industry Trends, but not on the merits of Soulbound Studios.

    Soulbound has been incredibly open - And any speculation that the screenshots they have been sharing are somehow disingenuous (as previously discussed on this thread) is pure speculation based on nothing more than air. 

    Having covered CoE from the perspective as a Journalist, including a First Look, Design Journal Readings, Community Spotlights, and hosting Live Panel Discussions; I've spent a lot of time discussing the details of this particular game, up to and including discussing the more technical aspects of this project. Jeromy Walsh is no slouch - he knows his stuff.

    This game is here to stay, and deserves all the love we can give it.
  • YanocchiYanocchi Member UncommonPosts: 659
    Here is what Adam Maxwell, a lead designer of Revival, wrote in a thread about Chronicles of Elyria:

    I'm sort of fascinated when the collective unconscious moves all once, as it often does in game designs, as it seems is happening now, too. I feel like there must be some sort of universal point of frustration that we all reach, or at least are all close to, and then one by one we hit that limit and move on it. The result being that concepts like this cluster and sort of bloom in unison. It's an interesting phenomenon.

    I think the near future looks really good for players who want to experience a deeper online RPG experience and to me that can only be a good thing.



    Baldur's Gate Online - Video Trailer
    * more info, screenshots and videos here

  • ZultraZultra Member UncommonPosts: 363
    Interesting comments by the dev :) , I don't like the accusations some were possibly saying on that thread about CoE being copycats. 
    Sign up for Chronicles of Elyria here don't forget to use my friend code - B4ACB3

    Join the revolutionary MMO! 
  • SerylliousSeryllious Member UncommonPosts: 43
    Zultra said:
    Interesting comments by the dev :) , I don't like the accusations some were possibly saying on that thread about CoE being copycats. 
    Whoever said that CoE was a copycat game ... I wonder what they're smoking. I might want some ;)
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