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So I made it around 5 hours into the pre-release.

JyiigaJyiiga Member UncommonPosts: 1,131
A little background first. I've many many RPG title. Including, but certainly not limited to Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights and more recently Pillars of Eternity. In addition to that, I play Pathfinder regularly and I recently started my first ever 5E campaign. So going into the things, I certainly had expectations that the game would be along those lines.

Here are the things that bugged me.

1. Character creation. This was missing multiple races that are available to any new 5E player. The creation system was missing chunks of the 5E system. For example I created a Cleric first and noticed that I did not have a domain available to me. I later discovered that many of the domain specific spells were just mixed in with the games skill system. There was no cantrips (level 0 spells) available during creation. There were also no skill selection during creation.

2. Skill system.  I found all those Cleric domain specific spells as soon as I got into the game (you know the ones missing during creation). All mixed together in an MMO style skill system that the game uses. As a 5E player this was a bit immersion killer for me. Since you could just mash together things like Nature and War or Life and War. There is no spell per day/rest system and instead all of the skills are available in nearly every fight. With cooldowns ranging from a few seconds to 240s. My heals were available in each and every fight, often being able to cast them multiple times and cheese my way through encounters by kiting around the AI while my heal recharged on the fly.

3.Playing with others. As long as I was playing the game with someone I knew (rl friend) it had some entertainment value. We could talk using the in game voice system and progress at fun and reasonable pace. Sadly this all went out the window the moment I joined a public game. Immediately the game became a Diablo styled race for loot. First person to reach that dead body or run over to a chest, was who got the loot. There is no roll system or priority system, first come, first served. Which often leads to players taking stupid risks in order to be the first grabby little person there.

4. Playing with others (again).  Yep here it is again. I can not say enough about this. Play this game ONLY with people you know or be prepared for some Diablo (1) style problems. There is no anti-cheat system, the game trusts the client for everything. I've seen players with 999 in all stats. This force players (DMs) to have to police such things.

5. Lack of social skills. I did not see any crafting skills and I did not see anything along the lines of intimidate, persuasion or bluff. Maybe creative module creators can give these back to us in the form of interesting dialouge options with NPC characters, but as of now I had no NPC interaction that resulted in anything but, listen to what I have to say and then go on my quest. Was I missing it? Did I not get far enough?

As of now I had Steam refund my deluxe version. Perhaps I will pick up the cheaper version, but I do not feel that this is a worthy of a $60 purchase at this time.

«1345

Comments

  • makasouleater69makasouleater69 Member UncommonPosts: 1,096
    edited September 2015
    I am glad I didn't buy it.  I almost did, instead of act of aggression; which I am very happy with. All those things you just stated, would make me hate the game, and would of got a refund.  All of them sound horrible, especially 1 and 4. I figured it was too good to be true lol. 
  • rnor6084rnor6084 Member UncommonPosts: 111
    Yet again the main problem with many a video game. Other humans. It's just best to avoid us.
  • JemAs666JemAs666 Member UncommonPosts: 251
    rnor6084 said:
    Yet again the main problem with many a video game. Other humans. It's just best to avoid us.
    I agree.  Humans screw up everything.
  • makasouleater69makasouleater69 Member UncommonPosts: 1,096
    JemAs666 said:
    rnor6084 said:
    Yet again the main problem with many a video game. Other humans. It's just best to avoid us.
    I agree.  Humans screw up everything.
    Even if you skip that part, those other problems she mentioned are to much to ignore. It sounds to me, modded NWN, or NWN 2 are better choices, and cost like 5 bucks lol. Paying 60 for what she described, is a joke. But hey its the norm now a days, 60-200 bucks, for unfinished garbage, with a cash shop/DLC which cost 5-10000 dollars, and a bunch of nonsense. 
  • psiicpsiic Member RarePosts: 1,587
    I am glad I didn't buy it.  I almost did, instead of act of aggression; which I am very happy with. All those things you just stated, would make me hate the game, and would of got a refund.  All of them sound horrible, especially 1 and 4. I figured it was too good to be true lol. 
    Same I waited and read reviews and talk to people on steam that I saw playing it and they are all pretty much disappointed
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,370
    I actually love it. I knew going into it what to expect. I watched Bill and the Hive leader play and was excited to get my hands on it. Played off and on all day and never once got bored. Lots of fun just did not like the ninja looting. Also wish I could put items in crates. So far so good. Reminds of the BG and Champions games on the PS2 with a create an adventure element added. Fun running as a DM. Look forward to the launch and post launch content. 

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • BluddwolfBluddwolf Member UncommonPosts: 355
    I gave the OP a LOL, you know... because...  the "cool down gripe"...

    Let me ask, in PnP D&D, when your Cleric uses his spells, does your DM make you wait 24 hours of real time before you can use them again?  

    Of course the DM doesn't, they advance the time; roll an random encounter roll; and then they tell you...  "You woke up the next morning, and your spells have replenished."  That all took a few moments, and yet the gripe that your spells in a PC game have a cool down that is too short is plain and simply silly talk.

    Honestly, there is not a single point you made I agree with.  You do understand that there is some loss in the translation going from PnP to PC game, don;t you?  

    Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,180
    JemAs666 said:
    rnor6084 said:
    Yet again the main problem with many a video game. Other humans. It's just best to avoid us.
    I agree.  Humans screw up everything.
    Even if you skip that part, those other problems she mentioned are to much to ignore. It sounds to me, modded NWN, or NWN 2 are better choices, and cost like 5 bucks lol. Paying 60 for what she described, is a joke. But hey its the norm now a days, 60-200 bucks, for unfinished garbage, with a cash shop/DLC which cost 5-10000 dollars, and a bunch of nonsense. 
    The game is like $39.99..go through greenman and get it even cheaper. Just saying.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • JyiigaJyiiga Member UncommonPosts: 1,131
    Bluddwolf said:
    Let me ask, in PnP D&D, when your Cleric uses his spells, does your DM make you wait 24 hours of real time before you can use them again? 

    Of course the DM doesn't, they advance the time; roll an random encounter roll; and then they tell you...  "You woke up the next morning, and your spells have replenished."  That all took a few moments, and yet the gripe that your spells in a PC game have a cool down that is too short is plain and simply silly talk.

    Honestly, there is not a single point you made I agree with.  You do understand that there is some loss in the translation going from PnP to PC game, don;t you?  

    Well typically there would be certain locations that are ideal for resting. You could easily have rest zones or safe locations in dungeons. Granted that's a pipe dream with this releasing in a few weeks.

    Here is how resting in Neverwinter Nights works.

    Resting allows a character to regain lost hit points and replenish spell slots. Any creatures summoned by that character will be unsummoned, and any lingering spell effects cast by that character will dissipate upon the beginning of a rest. A completed rest cycle also removes magical and extraordinary effects on the rested character. Supernatural effects, including most poisons and diseases (but not necessarily the damage caused by these) are not removed by resting. In addition, resting will cause a disease to progress, forcing the resting character to make a saving throw to attempt to resist the disease.

    Resting for monsters is instantaneous. Resting for player characters takes ten seconds, plus half a second per character level. This is defined in restduration.2da as follows.

    Resting can only be started in areas that permit resting, and only if there are no hostile creatures within a certain distance (even if there is no access from the creature to the character attempting to rest). Some modules (including the Shadows of Undrentide campaign) will allow resting in some areas only if a character is in a certain part of the area, possibly requiring that all doors to the room be closed first.

    Resting can be interrupted (by player action or monster attack). If this occurs, only partial benefits of rest are obtained. Hit points are restored gradually (linearly) over the rest period, while spell slots are restored at irregular intervals, starting with level 0. The slots for the highest spell level a character can cast are only restored if the rest cycle completes. Some modules (including the Hordes of the Underdark campaign) provide the possibility of rest being interrupted by "wandering" (technically spawned) monsters.

    Resting restrictions are somewhat common in some modules, particularly persistent worlds. These restrictions often include a limit on how often a character can rest, and sometimes a limit on how many hit points are restored. (Technically, full hit points are restored, followed by the character being damaged to remove the points in excess of what the world allows per rest cycle.) In addition, special items, such as rations, firewood, or a bedroll, may be required in order to rest.

    You never just rest anywhere in a tabletop session and you couldn't just rest anywhere in Neverwinter Nights. In tabletop resting in a hostile area could result in a random encounter or ambush. You would have to designate a guard for the night (someone that does not rest) or you would take turns resting. Yet even then it you failed a perception check you could still end up with an encounter.


  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,180
    edited September 2015
    Jyiiga said:
    Bluddwolf said:
    Let me ask, in PnP D&D, when your Cleric uses his spells, does your DM make you wait 24 hours of real time before you can use them again? 

    Of course the DM doesn't, they advance the time; roll an random encounter roll; and then they tell you...  "You woke up the next morning, and your spells have replenished."  That all took a few moments, and yet the gripe that your spells in a PC game have a cool down that is too short is plain and simply silly talk.

    Honestly, there is not a single point you made I agree with.  You do understand that there is some loss in the translation going from PnP to PC game, don;t you?  

    Well typically there would be certain locations that are ideal for resting. You could easily have rest zones or safe locations in dungeons. Granted that's a pipe dream with this releasing in a few weeks.

    Here is how resting in Neverwinter Nights works.

    Resting allows a character to regain lost hit points and replenish spell slots. Any creatures summoned by that character will be unsummoned, and any lingering spell effects cast by that character will dissipate upon the beginning of a rest. A completed rest cycle also removes magical and extraordinary effects on the rested character. Supernatural effects, including most poisons and diseases (but not necessarily the damage caused by these) are not removed by resting. In addition, resting will cause a disease to progress, forcing the resting character to make a saving throw to attempt to resist the disease.

    Resting for monsters is instantaneous. Resting for player characters takes ten seconds, plus half a second per character level. This is defined in restduration.2da as follows.

    Resting can only be started in areas that permit resting, and only if there are no hostile creatures within a certain distance (even if there is no access from the creature to the character attempting to rest). Some modules (including the Shadows of Undrentide campaign) will allow resting in some areas only if a character is in a certain part of the area, possibly requiring that all doors to the room be closed first.

    Resting can be interrupted (by player action or monster attack). If this occurs, only partial benefits of rest are obtained. Hit points are restored gradually (linearly) over the rest period, while spell slots are restored at irregular intervals, starting with level 0. The slots for the highest spell level a character can cast are only restored if the rest cycle completes. Some modules (including the Hordes of the Underdark campaign) provide the possibility of rest being interrupted by "wandering" (technically spawned) monsters.

    Resting restrictions are somewhat common in some modules, particularly persistent worlds. These restrictions often include a limit on how often a character can rest, and sometimes a limit on how many hit points are restored. (Technically, full hit points are restored, followed by the character being damaged to remove the points in excess of what the world allows per rest cycle.) In addition, special items, such as rations, firewood, or a bedroll, may be required in order to rest.

    You never just rest anywhere in a tabletop session and you couldn't just rest anywhere in Neverwinter Nights. In tabletop resting in a hostile area could result in a random encounter or ambush. You would have to designate a guard for the night (someone that does not rest) or you would take turns resting. Yet even then it you failed a perception check you could still end up with an encounter.


    I guess there's a reason they didn't call this NWN3? That seems to be the root in all of your complaints. Like the race issue, that was known long ago, yet you want a refund over it now? They explained thoroughly that race/class choices would be limited compared to the PNP when they first started advertising/interviewing for the title.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • JyiigaJyiiga Member UncommonPosts: 1,131
    edited September 2015
    Distopia said:

    I guess there's a reason they didn't call this NWN3?
    Indeed, but its about as D&D as the Neverwinter MMO. Which is more and more the case these days. There was a golden age of plentiful D&D titles that offered rather stunning gameplay.

    Thankfully the D&D license is not required to make titles such as these and I am extra thankful for Pillars of Eternity and the huge hit it has been. It fills the void nicely.
  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Member RarePosts: 1,927
    The lack of domains would kill it for me immediately. No excuse for that. Can you even choose an alignment? Is there a difference between turn undead and rebuke undead? Can you at least choose a deity, and have that choice matter?

    No social skills? No crafting skills? What about item creation feats, any of those? 

    Honestly, it just doesn't sound very good. I understand that systems have to be adapted, but it sounds like they were dumbed down as well. If I want simple mechanics I'll play an ARPG. If I want something deeper, I turn to games like Baldur's Gate and Pillars of Eternity. 

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!

    We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD. 

    #IStandWithVic

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,180
    Jyiiga said:
    Distopia said:

    I guess there's a reason they didn't call this NWN3?
    Indeed, but its about as D&D as the Neverwinter MMO. Which is more and more the case these days. There was a golden age of plentiful D&D titles that offered rather stunning gameplay.

    Thankfully the D&D license is not required to make titles such as these and I am extra thankful for Pillars of Eternity and the huge hit it has been. It fills the void nicely.
    You got back before my edit, I just have to ask if you paid attention early on, as they explained class/race choices would be limited, seeing that as your number one seems to indicate an impulse purchase? Which hey that's fine, it just seems a little reading/research would have saved you the headache.


    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • ThebeastttThebeasttt Member RarePosts: 1,130
    lol @ anyone playing 5e instead of pathfinder.

    lol @ sword coast legends still being far worse then neverwinter nights in 2015

    lol @ developers assuming people will play nice online
  • BluddwolfBluddwolf Member UncommonPosts: 355
    lol @ anyone playing 5e instead of pathfinder.

    lol @ sword coast legends still being far worse then neverwinter nights in 2015

    lol @ developers assuming people will play nice online
    I'm not impressed with Pathfinder, including the Adventure Card Game, and if you even tried to play Pathfinder Online you'd know that it is a half-assedly, thrown together, pile of shit (MMORPG rating = 4.5)

    Most that have played and modded NWN have said that the DM tools in SCL are far superior.  I'll have to take their word for it.  

    The developers expect that players will find other players that do play nice, and have a system integrated with your Steam Friends List to facilitate that.  This is something that hasn't been mentioned anywhere by the developer, and it is a big plus.

    Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....

  • TalmienTalmien Member UncommonPosts: 111
    When I started watching some of the dev streams and noticed that characters were able to die and be brought back to life multiple times in a single fight, and seemed to easily breeze passed anything the DMs threw at them, I began to get worried. This has helped put some more nails in the coffin for me. I doubt I'll make a purchase and will just read more reviews when it gets release.
  • RidrithRidrith Member RarePosts: 520
    Bluddwolf said:
    lol @ anyone playing 5e instead of pathfinder.

    lol @ sword coast legends still being far worse then neverwinter nights in 2015

    lol @ developers assuming people will play nice online
    I'm not impressed with Pathfinder, including the Adventure Card Game, and if you even tried to play Pathfinder Online you'd know that it is a half-assedly, thrown together, pile of shit (MMORPG rating = 4.5)

    Most that have played and modded NWN have said that the DM tools in SCL are far superior.  I'll have to take their word for it.  

    The developers expect that players will find other players that do play nice, and have a system integrated with your Steam Friends List to facilitate that.  This is something that hasn't been mentioned anywhere by the developer, and it is a big plus.
    The tools in SCL are nowhere NEAR as robust as the tools in Neverwinter Nights or Neverwinter Nights 2.  Hell, even the tools in Neverwinter the MMO are more useful when attempting to create a story based experience.

    The Iron Circle Guild - | PC Gaming | Tabletop Gaming | Good Company!
  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Jyiiga said:
    Distopia said:

    I guess there's a reason they didn't call this NWN3?
    Indeed, but its about as D&D as the Neverwinter MMO. Which is more and more the case these days. There was a golden age of plentiful D&D titles that offered rather stunning gameplay.

    Thankfully the D&D license is not required to make titles such as these and I am extra thankful for Pillars of Eternity and the huge hit it has been. It fills the void nicely.
    Wasteland 2, Pillars, Torment....these are real gems.

    Those reminded me of this logo:

    http://seeklogo.com/interplay-logo-72845.html

    :)
  • FanOfSupermanFanOfSuperman Member UncommonPosts: 144
    Distopia said:
    JemAs666 said:
    rnor6084 said:
    Yet again the main problem with many a video game. Other humans. It's just best to avoid us.
    I agree.  Humans screw up everything.
    Even if you skip that part, those other problems she mentioned are to much to ignore. It sounds to me, modded NWN, or NWN 2 are better choices, and cost like 5 bucks lol. Paying 60 for what she described, is a joke. But hey its the norm now a days, 60-200 bucks, for unfinished garbage, with a cash shop/DLC which cost 5-10000 dollars, and a bunch of nonsense. 
    The game is like $39.99..go through greenman and get it even cheaper. Just saying.

    I buy all my games through Green Man Gaming, always with at least a 20% off coupon (sometimes more).

    It's foolish to buy them anywhere else and pay full price.
  • RelampagoRelampago Member UncommonPosts: 307
    Darn =( ...
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,446
    Distopia said:
    JemAs666 said:
    rnor6084 said:
    Yet again the main problem with many a video game. Other humans. It's just best to avoid us.
    I agree.  Humans screw up everything.
    Even if you skip that part, those other problems she mentioned are to much to ignore. It sounds to me, modded NWN, or NWN 2 are better choices, and cost like 5 bucks lol. Paying 60 for what she described, is a joke. But hey its the norm now a days, 60-200 bucks, for unfinished garbage, with a cash shop/DLC which cost 5-10000 dollars, and a bunch of nonsense. 
    The game is like $39.99..go through greenman and get it even cheaper. Just saying.

    I buy all my games through Green Man Gaming, always with at least a 20% off coupon (sometimes more).

    It's foolish to buy them anywhere else and pay full price.
    GMG had a 23% off code.  I got the Deluxe Ed plus 4 standard copies for $115.  That was a decent deal.

    Let's hope they can make some tweaks to get this game shaped up right.

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  • makasouleater69makasouleater69 Member UncommonPosts: 1,096
    I just wanted to add, after watching a 5 min video of game play, the animations are god awful lol. They are worse than lego games, and 100 times worse than NWN 1, that had jumping dodging ect. These guys swinging their swords, look like some one went to the retard bus, and gave people swords.....
  • OainOain Member UncommonPosts: 59
    The full featured DM Mode is not in the head-start access. You have to wait until the game comes out on the 29th to use all the features of DM Mode.
  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 794
    Oain said:
    The full featured DM Mode is not in the head-start access. You have to wait until the game comes out on the 29th to use all the features of DM Mode.
    Besides a few pre-generated dungeon maps, what else is not included in the DM mode right now that will be next week in release.
  • RidrithRidrith Member RarePosts: 520
    Oain said:
    The full featured DM Mode is not in the head-start access. You have to wait until the game comes out on the 29th to use all the features of DM Mode.
    Besides a few pre-generated dungeon maps, what else is not included in the DM mode right now that will be next week in release.
    Not a lot.  Maybe he's holding out hope for a better experience but they're not holding back entire parts of the DM mode.  Tilesets, creature sets and maybe some items at this point are the only things being held back I believe.  So just to make it clear you can:

    1.) Choose from pre-created "scenes".  Forest A, B, C, etc.  City Street A, B.  Etc, etc.

    2.) Your quests MUST follow one of the four following categories:  Kill a boss.  Collect a certain item type.  Kill a certain enemy type.  And of course Custom.  Custom basically allowing you to put a quest on an NPC OUTSIDE OF A DUNGEON.  The three types listed before that are REQUIRED to be dungeon quests.  You can't use them in a "scene".  You have to generate a dungeon first and apply them to that area only.  Custom quests can unlock new scenes, or have you do more or less the same things minus a true boss kill in the "scene" areas.  More importantly if you set a quest to an area then "visit" the area to check it out, you'll have to remake the whole scene again because you can't edit the thing after the fact.

    3.) You can generate random dungeons.  There is no tile by tile creation.  You can create a number of floors for the dungeon choosing "enemy sets" that appear randomly in the dungeon, the size of the dungeon and the layout.  The layout being generic terms like:  "Simple, Complex".  Totally random.

    4.) You can edit the color schemes of creatures.  Most monsters CANNOT be equipped with new armor or weapons.  Some creatures can be equipped with weapons but most cannot.   You can't really edit the stats of creatures.  You can spend a few of the stats in point buy but you have to change them up from what they already have.

    5.) You cannot create your own items.  Loot is 100% random.  That boss your players just spent two hours running through your 8 level dungeon and 5 scene module with 15 quests?  He just dropped a white great sword.  Congrats.

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