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Neverwinter - the latest population reducing eruption

JudgeUKJudgeUK Member RarePosts: 1,532
In yet another epic example of player support, Cryptic have announced a change to the Leadership profession.

For those not familiar with the game, Leadership tends to be the main profession as it gives Astral Diamonds (the in-game currency). As is the norm with these things, the rewards increase as the higher the Leadership rank.

You can have more than one character, and all these can level the Leadership profession - so players where doing this for the AD returns - and have been since day one.

But not anymore.

Cryptic have announced a removal of the AD return from the Leadership profession - which has not gone down at all well with the player base (that is about as mildly as I put it).

A more accurate description would be a sh*tstorm of epic proporttions.

Here we go:

http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1203585/astral-diamond-changes

32 pages at the time of writing - and rising.

A while back the terminally awful module 6 lowered the player population. It will be a question - not if this change has the same effect - but if in fact it will surpass even Mod 6's disastrous effect on player numbers.
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Comments

  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,140
    F2P
  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Member UncommonPosts: 3,713
    Sounds like good changes to me. They are combating botters and rewarding people who actually play more. 

    image
  • giftedHorngiftedHorn Member UncommonPosts: 106
    Leadership never should have worked this way to begin with. As the devs say, leadership rewards are not based on time spent in game. Leadership is most rewarding to the players who have lots of in-game currency to invest in it. It's a way of helping the rich get richer.

    However... it's been this way for years now, and everyone's adapted to it. Even the little guys like me (just 5 toons at 20 leadership with 9 slots unlocked each) are now invested in the system. So, this is going to hurt.

    Still, in the long run it's good for the game. Unlike Mod 6, which was definitely bad or even terminally awful as you say.
  • TokkenTokken Member RarePosts: 2,724
    that sucks.
    Make PvE GREAT Again!
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,354
    Leadership never should have worked this way to begin with. As the devs say, leadership rewards are not based on time spent in game. Leadership is most rewarding to the players who have lots of in-game currency to invest in it. It's a way of helping the rich get richer.

    However... it's been this way for years now, and everyone's adapted to it. Even the little guys like me (just 5 toons at 20 leadership with 9 slots unlocked each) are now invested in the system. So, this is going to hurt.

    Still, in the long run it's good for the game. Unlike Mod 6, which was definitely bad or even terminally awful as you say.
    You hit the nail on the head. This does hit me and it hurts. I'm not even very excited or happy about it, but it's also not hard to see that it has been a problem.

    More problematic, at least for me, is that modules past 6 and this latest strongholds mod have been absolutely horrible. They're not that fun and the hoops and hurdles I have to jump in order to play a lot of the new content sucks.

    There is a lot I like about the game, but I'm putting time into other games at the moment.
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,208
    So not only am i going to have to suffer through a funknut more so called content... Keep in mind that dungeons are still borked due to the 5 to 3 conversion.... Due to the previous behaviour we are going to see a insane spike in costs of mats... And Leadership is all but useless... Don´t even pay for it self any more. 

    But on the up side i guess... In 6-8 months the economy MIGHT have become more stable... It will be entierly controlled by bots.... but at least it will be stable. 

    At this point i have a grand total of THREE dungeons to run.... It is going to be a fucking joy doing this. And about the same amount of skirm´s... PvP i have not touched since IWD due to it being completley gear dependent and that in turn equaled spending millions if not billions of AD.... 

    But i guess it at least take the need to log in to collect/setup Leadership out of it. 

    This have been a good conversation

  • JudgeUKJudgeUK Member RarePosts: 1,532
    The removal of the Leadership AD is just the latest in a downward spiral for the game. The development team appear to have lost their way. Whether this is through staff cuts I don't know, but since Module 5 the game has noticeably lost direction and also content.

    Yes content has been removed with long standing dungeons disappearing from the game.

    I have played this game since launch, with the only purchase being a mount in a sale. So I do have fairly long standing experience of the game developers.

    I see things have changed recently in the game development and support, and not for the good. This noticeably come across in the latest modules and the communication from the company.

    To me, it now feels like an under-staffed development team really struggling with the game.

    At present I do not see how they can turn the ongoing population decline around without significant backroom changes. However, this would likely require significant investment in bringing experienced mmo developers onboard. Something I just cannot see happening with this company at present.

    I can only see an ongoing decline with Neverwinter.
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,681
    It was a bit funny to read it, almost the same reasoning they did in STO, just there used lazyness instead of bots... (as in "we've devised a solid plan, but you lazy bums cherry-picked the fastest few activities, grabbed the dilly from those, and then instead of grinding several hours in all the other activities you dared to switch onto alts and do the same few quick ones... well, we decided to just remove those, but it is for your own good, now you can play for hours if you want any dilly, trust us it will be great" :lol:

    I'm not really affected by it since Neverwinter is only in my 2nd-level games (and from those I currently play CO :wink: ), have only three maxxed Leadeship characters and when I'm not playing I won't even log back for that few minutes of clicking. Still, I believe until there's nothing more about further changes (tweaked prices, few removed AD sinks, etc) it's nothing just a "give us more money" announcement.
     
    Only two minor groups won't be affected by these changes, the very casuals like me, who just play once in a while, leveling a new class or playing some Foundry; and the second one of course the bots. Everyone else (the actual, active players) will be shafted by it. Leadership, right from the start was about AD, that was the main reason to raise it. Switching it off, pretty odd solution, which by the way won't "solve" anything, just like every the other "fixes" all the way back until Caturday...
    "We saw that bots made huge amounts of AD, we had a fix, which indeed sucked for you, but it's good for the game. Oh wait, bots are still making huge amounts of AD, you know what, we kill Leadership off entirely. All those AD they stockpiled will still be there, your time and resources raising Leadership is down the drain, you will have a tough time from now on, but hey, at least bot will generate a bit less in the future! Yay, we rock, eat this, bots" :lol:

    (just a hint, maybe ban those accounts, sweeping it weekly? I dunno, it used to work in plenty of games...)
  • YanocchiYanocchi Member UncommonPosts: 675
    I suggest Dungeons & Dragons fans leaving Neverwinter try Neverwinter Nights 2 on Baldur's Gate or some other popular multiplayer persistent world. I have 4k CW in Neverwinter and level 30 FVS in NWN 2: BGTSCC. There is no doubt, the world and atmosphere in NWN 2: BGTSCC was more immersive than in Neverwinter.


    Baldur's Gate Online - Video Trailer
    * more info, screenshots and videos here

  • IkedaIkeda Member RarePosts: 2,751
    dDreamo84 said:
    Sounds like good changes to me. They are combating botters and rewarding people who actually play more. 
    This is one of those stupid things people say who don't know any better.  

    I logged back in last night because frankly my XBO is only being used as a TV center.  It was free.  I'd give it a try.  I was intrigued that the PC issues weren't over on the XBO.

    But quickly I discovered some of the things that changed.  Some of them don't affect me right now but I'm starting to wonder "why bother" when it really does.

    For example,

    Right now, with the cap, you can only get 24K AD per day.

    In order to gear up your guys, you're looking approximately 31M AD.

    Let's do the simple math:  34,000,000/24,000 = 1, 416 days.  That's right.  And that's if you make sure you hit your cap EVERY SINGLE DAY.

    Which you won't.  That's 3.8 years with current pricing to get what you need.

    And for that matter... these changes don't combat botting.  In fact, there's quite a few blogs out there including: http://blog.nwo-uncensored.com/weekly-neverwinter-botting-data-16/

    These show that botters don't give a rats.  They change the method of their botting and still achieve their AD gains.  The people who are affected are the SPECIFIC players who are playing by the rules.

    Honestly, took the wind out of my sails when I read this.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,354
    This essentially guts most any reason to do crafting at all. I would think it would hurt their bottom line on crafting purchases in the cash shop.

    I play the game like @Po_gg does. While I did do some leadership AD crafting I didn't do it regularly. It doesn't really affect me. I play the story, level new characters, and play foundry missions when I hit a content wall. The game really has floundered since Mod 5 or 6 though. Mod 5 was like the tipping point.
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,354
    Yanocchi said:
    I suggest Dungeons & Dragons fans leaving Neverwinter try Neverwinter Nights 2 on Baldur's Gate or some other popular multiplayer persistent world. I have 4k CW in Neverwinter and level 30 FVS in NWN 2: BGTSCC. There is no doubt, the world and atmosphere in NWN 2: BGTSCC was more immersive than in Neverwinter.


    Not for me. I don't like anything about that setup.
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • kikoodutroa8kikoodutroa8 Member RarePosts: 562
    I remember the buggy release and how it was possible to get insane amounts of Astral Diamonds thanks to the broken AH.
    It was funny because all the people who bought the "early access" packs had their own diamond stacks rendered worthless.
  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 800
    I remember the buggy release and how it was possible to get insane amounts of Astral Diamonds thanks to the broken AH.
    It was funny because all the people who bought the "early access" packs had their own diamond stacks rendered worthless.
    They also gave the impression the AD sales from the founder packs would be 'limited.'  Which was a major BS lie.  Perfect World is probably the worst company in the MMO industry imo.
  • IkedaIkeda Member RarePosts: 2,751
    I remember the buggy release and how it was possible to get insane amounts of Astral Diamonds thanks to the broken AH.
    It was funny because all the people who bought the "early access" packs had their own diamond stacks rendered worthless.
    They also gave the impression the AD sales from the founder packs would be 'limited.'  Which was a major BS lie.  Perfect World is probably the worst company in the MMO industry imo.
    Yep, I had high hopes as a founder of NW... and the Cat-astrophe and AD dupes went rampant and ruined the game.  I was hoping after launch it had gotten it's legs under it.
  • TheCrumb71TheCrumb71 Member CommonPosts: 3
    The game is fine.  Yes, a bunch of people who were abusing the AD system with armies of leadership bots got smacked down.  The game was not intended for players to have 50 accounts (yes we have a guild member who has 50 accounts) farming AD with leadership.  These players knew it was wrong, there is no way they could have thought "gee, I'm entitled to 1 account per email.... so it must be OK to get 50 different email accounts!"  Bullhockey.

    As far as the forums being clogged with 35 pages of screaming, it's not all anti-patch, plus of those 35 most of the manifestos are from players who seem to have the most to lose.  Those that agree with the change, have just said so and moved on.  Further, we who agree with the change don't have 50 accounts to log in and diatribes.

    The system was not designed to be that way, and in order for us normal players to even have a remote chance to keep up, we too would have to make dozens of accounts.  The Leadership Army players ruined the economy, they ruined the fun experience, they caused serious server lag, and now they are complaining that they got cheated.  No, YOU players cheated US!

    So, now they are forced to actually play the game, and you would think the end of the world is coming.

    Remember kids, free to play, free to quit, and I say good riddance.  Go try and find another game to exploit and ruin for your own selfish reasons.

    It's a great game, and it'll get even better.  Strongholds is a blast IMO.  The only drawbacks right now are 1) dungeons are still being revamped  2)  pvp is still owned by whales many which are the AD Army generals  3) the economy will take some working on to get back on track after being flooded by so much AD from these jerks.
  • JudgeUKJudgeUK Member RarePosts: 1,532
    edited September 2015
    The game is fine.  Yes, a bunch of people who were abusing the AD system with armies of leadership bots got smacked down.  The game was not intended for players to have 50 accounts (yes we have a guild member who has 50 accounts) farming AD with leadership.  These players knew it was wrong, there is no way they could have thought "gee, I'm entitled to 1 account per email.... so it must be OK to get 50 different email accounts!"  Bullhockey.

    As far as the forums being clogged with 35 pages of screaming, it's not all anti-patch, plus of those 35 most of the manifestos are from players who seem to have the most to lose.  Those that agree with the change, have just said so and moved on.  Further, we who agree with the change don't have 50 accounts to log in and diatribes.

    The system was not designed to be that way, and in order for us normal players to even have a remote chance to keep up, we too would have to make dozens of accounts.  The Leadership Army players ruined the economy, they ruined the fun experience, they caused serious server lag, and now they are complaining that they got cheated.  No, YOU players cheated US!

    So, now they are forced to actually play the game, and you would think the end of the world is coming.

    Remember kids, free to play, free to quit, and I say good riddance.  Go try and find another game to exploit and ruin for your own selfish reasons.

    It's a great game, and it'll get even better.  Strongholds is a blast IMO.  The only drawbacks right now are 1) dungeons are still being revamped  2)  pvp is still owned by whales many which are the AD Army generals  3) the economy will take some working on to get back on track after being flooded by so much AD from these jerks.
    There is so much incorrect here I don't really know where to start.

    Firstly then. Of course not all pplayers have 50 characters. However, the development team did allow players to have this option - for a price of course. So some players took them up on the offer. Players didn't scream at Cryptic for 50 slots, it was the company's decision to make this available to the players base.

    But like a lot of players, I have around 7-8 characters. With all these I have maxed out Leadership - because it gives AD. That has been the sole incentive to do this since day one.

    The costs in AD, and also to an extent the required game time in progressing a character to end gear prohibit doing this with multiple characters. Consequently players tend to focus on a single character whilst boosting their AD with leadership on others.

    Secondly, there is only one way for players to catch up -  wallet time. That is the nature of this game (and some would say of the company as a whole).

    PvP - as you say, forget it unless you have extensively raided your bank account. One of the worst examples of money over skill.

    Dungeons being revamped? Just for how long have these been removed from the game? They disappeared at Mod 6, months ago. Still no sign or even intended dates for their return.

    Let's get this straight. They gave the reason for removing leadership as an anti bot measure. This is an utter fallacy.

    Bots do not hang around long enough to max out leadership, that takes months. Their accounts are short lived, and repeatedly change.
    You can find bots running automated content at lower levels. They are in groups doing this. Not hard to spot.
    It is purely a measure aimed at getting players to spend even more in the game, that is it.

    Leadership causing lag? Just what? You may as well say it's caused by the sun coming up.
    Go into the Well of Dragons area when the dragon heralds appear - then you'll experience lag - the worst of the lot. The lag is caused by the historical poor optimization of the game, ground aoe skills here can just freeze the game.

    As for feel free to quit. Well the player numbers show that's exactly what is happening. But is that really the best outcome for this game? Or any game?
    Sometimes it is, but only as a lesson to the development team to reverse a direction.
    Even then it's a question of whether those players, having moved on to another game, will return.


  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,681
    edited September 2015
    [...]The game was not intended for players to have 50 accounts (yes we have a guild member who has 50 accounts) farming AD with leadership.
    Disagree, somewhat - but it doesn't really matters, since they talked specifically about bots and not the alt hoarders. Which is understandable, since they've built the system, obviously can't speak against it... (that's why I wrote above, the letter was similar to the STO one in tone... but that change was against players, opposed to this one :wink: )
    Sure, mistakes are understandable too, since they were new to this whole f2p (CoH and CO was developed as p2p, STO was in the middle ground, started as p2p but the revamp after the PWE takeover was made in an f2p mindset), Neverwinter was their first straight-to-f2p game, and that showed in some odd decisions, like the AD for AH (was a "great" help for spreading the effects of duping, Caturday rings a bell?), AD for gear, AD in Foundry, etc. The game was built around AD, and they were the ones who put Leadership into the game as a slow-but-steady AD source. They should've think about the possible side-effects...

    Anyways, I think this time they really mean it and try to go against bots, shafting the alt-keepers is just the cherry on top. That's why I said it's an odd solution which won't solve anything: Bots will be unaffected by this change too, like they were with the Gateway one.

    (Btw, whether keeping a legion of alts is "legal" or "intended" etc. could be a valid and interesting discussion, at an another time, since as I said, I think this change is not target those players.
    For the record, personally I believe it's a lame behaviour, but I always mocked no-lifers, even back in the MUD days :lol: Spending hours for: login, invoke, leadership, switch character, repeat - sounds like a horrid and boring grind to me. And I agree with your opening, Neverwinter is a fine game indeed. Like to play it from time to time.)
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,681
    JudgeUK said:

    [...] Let's get this straight. They gave the reason for removing leadership as an anti bot measure. This is an utter fallacy.


    Funny, we posted the same time :waving:
    Except I wrote that I think it's really against botters, and only as an added benefit it kills off the alt-hoarders. But since we're not inside Cryptic meetings, we can only guessing...
  • JudgeUKJudgeUK Member RarePosts: 1,532
    edited September 2015
    I agree, having 50 characters - good grief. That's more than a job lol.

    But it's not the norm. I'd say that's around 5-8 characters, with one main and alts.
    The high AD cost of getting anywhere with a character really promotes the single main focus.

    But this is not an anti-bot measure - which they have said it is.
    It takes months to get leadership to a high level. Bots simply do not hang around for anywhere near that length of time. They farm lower level content, disappear, to be replaced by others.

    This leadership change will not hurt bots - it is aimed purely at the player base.

    You could take actually say it is directed at the people who have invested the most time and money into their game - what sort of reward is that lol?
  • TheCrumb71TheCrumb71 Member CommonPosts: 3
    JudgeUK said:

    As for feel free to quit. Well the player numbers show that's exactly what is happening. But is that really the best outcome for this game? Or any game?
    Sometimes it is, but only as a lesson to the development team to reverse a direction.
    Even then it's a question of whether those players, having moved on to another game, will return.


    ---

    I didn't say 8 characters or 50 characters, and you KNOW that.  I said FIFTY ACCOUNTS.  Yes, there are people with FIFTY ACCOUNTS.  And running a program over your tablet while you sit at work, to log them in to manage leadership is BOTTING.  You know damn well what I'm talking about, don't pretend you don't or that this is news, because you are not fooling anyone, or you just started playing last week.

    Those people were the targets.  If you have eight character slots, you paid for them, and I am sure ARC values you as a customer.  As far as logging in 50 accounts, one character after the other after the other, it does cause lag, especially when you have 100 people doing it at the same time.  It also causes server instability without a return on investment from cryptics standpoint.

    Every one of these crybabies wants cryptic and ARC to follow the letter of the law to a tee "well they didn't explicitly deny that we can't have fifty accounts, so that must mean they wanted us to, I mean, if an exploit is available, that MUST mean they want us to do it!"

    How about this?  How about if Cryptic decided to sell off your information to a third party, or started selling your passwords to the chinese?  I mean, you didn't TELL them that they shouldn't do it, so they have the right to do it huh?


    Regular gold/diamond sellers etc, do not sit and "bot", they usually buy their goods wholesale from the game company or an insider.  CD Keys of all the packs are being bought and sold regularly, how do the sellers get them?  The same way they do in any game, someone on the inside sells them to the sellers.  The big sellers don't sit around praying for AD nor do they do Leadership, in that you are correct, but what you miss is that they, and WE as in most of the players who play maybe 10 -12 hours a week consider anyone with multiple accounts to be abusers, and one of the complaints that has been regularly posted is that the economy is wrecked, that players feel "forced" to make the game a part time job to keep up.  Keep up with who?  The sellers and black market?  No, YOU.  The players with 50 accounts, or maybe 12 accounts, or maybe even 5 accounts of leadership.  Even if not running script, spending 5 hours a day just to run leadership while most of us only have 2 hours to play the game, breaks the spirit of the game.  It makes it un-fun.  To see inflation rise and rise and rise, and look around and see a bunch of folks abusing the system and flooding the market with AD is what is ruining the game, not cryptic, not ARC.  

    Of course they make mistakes, everyone does, what company or person for that matter does not?  They are in my opinion trying to fix those mistakes.  An error of judgement was found, and they are trying to correct it.  What should they do?  Ignore it and hope it goes away and gets better?  That my friend would be the worst thing to do.

    And, as far as griping that they are trying to make money....  All I can say is ?????

    Really?  Have we gone down that far the ladder that even now, if a company provides you with entertainment, that you are so entitled to feel that they are cheating you if they try and make a profit?  Last I heard there was nearly $28 million dollars invested into this game so far.  Did you expect Obama to write a check to cover that?  No, they are a business, they employ people, those people have wives, kids, etc.  They need to eat as well, and pay off college bills too.  The game wasn't designated as a soup line, it was f2p, with goodies you can buy if you want.   Oh, but like most, you want to be UBER and PWNZ and you want it for free... There's the rub isn't it.  Ass Cash or Grass, nobody rides for free.

  • JudgeUKJudgeUK Member RarePosts: 1,532
    No idea where you get this 50 account information from. Why not make up a 60 account figure or 75?
    Anyone can pluck numbers out of their imagination.

    The only accurate information we have is that a player can have up to 50 character slots. The game company allows this. You could say they encourage it by selling these character slots in their cash shop.

    This is not breaking any game rules. It has in fact benefited the company by spending money with them. Their sales mechanism has worked - they have got the sale.

    And why would players buy these multiple character slots that Cryptic where selling?
    Why?
    -There is only one reason
    - And Cryptic knew full well what that reason was
    - That is why they had this multiple character slot feature in their cash shop
     
    -------->Leadership AD


    There are many ftp games out there. Some allow the game to be played, having basically cosmetic items in the store - Rift for example.

    Others are at the opposite end of the scale, and Cryptic are well known in this respect.

    Bots will continue to make AD from this game unless Cryptic take targeted action against them.
    You say that the business is there to make money, to support families. Well, at a fundamental level, that can also be applied to the gold sellers.

    By that same thought process, they will also be working to maximize their AD from the game. And this action by Cryptic simply does not stop them.

    In fact, it will likely increase their income as this AD revenue source for players disappears. How's that for an outcome?
    - Promote increased AD buying, whilst utterly failing to take effective and direct action against the gold sellers, with actions that drive more people away from the game.

    Win win......hardly.
  • TheCrumb71TheCrumb71 Member CommonPosts: 3
    JudgeUK said:

    You could take actually say it is directed at the people who have invested the most time and money into their game - what sort of reward is that lol?

    How about this?  How about the casual player who has quit and moved on, because he can't keep up with the players that have a leadership army?  How about his hours and his investment?  What are you going to give him from your own pocket?

    lol yourself, you're a selfish person, typical of this day with not a worry about how your actions affect others just so long as you "get yours" and screw everyone else on the way, but as soon as anything might inconvenience you a tad bit, you squeal like a stuck pig.

    Maybe I have you personally all wrong, and I'm lumping you in with the jackasses who caused this.

    "But this is not an anti-bot measure - which they have said it is."

    Again, I think this IS an anti-bot measure, the difference is, you are convinced or you have your head in the sand and don't know, or don't want to know that the botters are those with the massive leadership armies, they are NOT the AD sellers you see spamming the channels.  They are your guildmates, or anyone (I know, and I created this account so I would not be recognized by my guildmates, because I KNOW they are botting like mad and there are instructions all over the web to do it, and it is encouraged by guildmates because of our stronghold and a need to keep up with the Joneses, it's ridiculous).

    This huge bot increase, which maybe you don't realize sprung up bad, I don't think was intended at the guy with one account and 10 characters.  It came about after strongholds, when the arms race began.  Short sighted yes.  Every game, every person, every country, every programmer, every president, every committee, every everybody makes mistakes, but anyone worth their salt works to correct them as fast as they can.

    The big time AD sellers you see spamming don't bot, just like WoW or any other game, they just pay someone off on the inside for the transfer of pixels into one account or another  or  they dupe items of value, we all know that.  Should they go after them?  You bet, but I think it's harder to track down and prosecute people in communist China than it is to work on those things that you can control.  At least that's where I would put my effort.

    And, no matter what (I know, never start a sentence with "and"), there will always be a black market.  You have to assume that a small percent of the population will buy black market items, but the thing with that is, it is evenly distributed and it is not as widespread as an exploit that everyone knows about and that has come to be accepted by the players.  So a few guys become whales, everyone knows who they are, there is probably one in every average sized guild, but we dont' even try to keep up with them.  We just say "yeah, that Jake, he buys his gold from the Koreans, what a jackass, he can't cut it" and we move on and tend to just avoid Jake, then Jake goes and finds a new game after "whaling up" and then complaining that everyone on the server sucks at PvP (well after he rubs everyone's face in the fact that he PwNz and they SuXor).  

    An exploit has to be fixed ASAP.  Good luck finding the guy in a coffee shop in Tsing Zhou selling AD over a Tor Guarded network.  Usually what companies do, is they make deals with these individuals to throttle the sales, in return they give them something, most think that is how they are selling Founder Packs and Vanguard Packs, etc.  Sausage making is not pretty, we know that.

    Don't kid yourself, players like me  have been complaining to Strum and others that the Leadership armies had to go.  It was making MY FRIENDS leave the game, they just couldn't keep up with the Leadership Generals.  We want both to go, the Commercial Sellers and the AD Armies  (a few characters does not an Army make).   Not only that, it was driving my other friends into a tizzy, I dare say some people were going way out to keep up with the other guild that hit rank 5 that week, and then other guilds were doing the same damn thing.

    I see your point of view, you invested hours, with only 8 characters you don't sound like an abuser at all.  Now see mine, if I have two hours a day to play, I want to go watch netfix then, or play another game maybe, not have my computer dedicated to running script or hogging my bandwidth.  How can I even be a valued member of a guild when I only have 5 characters total and the guild has people who are making 2 million AD a week for them (plus their own stash of AD).

    I don't need BiS in every slot to PvE.  I have rank 8's on my 70's, 2400-2600 gear and I do just fine.  I don't PvP because I am not going to fight against a premade 3000k on teamspeak while I'm with my wife in a PuG or maybe with a guildmates some of which may not even all speak the same language.  We play for fun.  PvP is not fun for us in NW.  Not my idea of fun anyways, I'd rather run dragons, SH encounters, IWD HE's or the few Dungs that are left, and my gear does just fine, but then again, this is not my life and that's the point, if I HAVE to make an army to earn AD, then it will become my life.  I'm not willing to make that sacrifice and neither should you or anyone else, but to each his own.

    There are two sides to every coin.  I've heard about 100 sides to this coin, I'm giving you my side.
  • JudgeUKJudgeUK Member RarePosts: 1,532
    Well, They have implemented the AD removal from Leadership in the latest maintenance - and what has happened with this so called anti-bot measure?

    Notifications of guilds quitting
    Guilds being reduced to a couple of people
    PE looking like a ghost town
    Players who are sticking with it stopping any kind of spend
    Bots increase in low level farming areas, Neverdeath Graveyard in particular
    Bugged revised Leadership profession - 4 hour quest giving more rewards than 1 day quest.
    Bugged dungeons not giving the newly promised AD rewards
    Post after post of people leaving the game

    Currently at 54 pages with over one thousand six hundred replies.

    http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1203585/astral-diamond-changes/p54

    However you look at it - this is a really bad turn for the game.


  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,354
    I think that is a bit melodramatic and overstated. If the game becomes a ghost town it's because they have made several wacky decisions over the last several months, not just because easy AD farming got nerfed.

    They needed to do something about this for a long time now. What exactly do you suggest they should have done to curb massive AD farming through Leadership? Do you have any suggestions that would actually work and still not piss off the same people "rage-quitting"?
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


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