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Do you expect to play an online game in the next 10 years using VR hardware (head mounted display)?

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  • rodingorodingo Member RarePosts: 2,867
    I already have neck and eye issues from old age, not to mention the occasional headache.  Know what I say?  Bring on the VR!  I have been playing video games on a 2D screen for the past 35 some odd years, give or take a few.  I'm ready to take things to the next level.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Regularly? Depends on the hardware needed. 

    However to just play one within the next ten years? I'd be very surprised if everyone here hasn't tried it by then. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • cerulean2012cerulean2012 Member UncommonPosts: 492
    For me, most likely not.  At this point in time I really have no desire to even try it, so if MMOs start requiring it in order to play then that will most likely mark my end of gaming (at least games that require it.)
  • KenFisherKenFisher Member UncommonPosts: 5,035
    anemo said:
     

    There are a half dozen different dual analog single/double handed controlers...

    Thanks for showing me that.  I never saw that design.

    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  When I don't understand, I ask.  Such is not intended as criticism.
  • BoneserinoBoneserino Member UncommonPosts: 1,764
    People seem to think VR is ok for everybody.  Its not.  The older you get the less likely you will be able to use it.

    In a fast action game I would definitely not be using it and I bet the percentage of people that would, would be 25 % or less. 

    If it were just about walking around and enjoying the scenery then, yeah, it might be tolerable for awhile.

    But VR is not a universal gaming adjunct.  There are many who either can't use it or do not wish to for various reasons.

    Its niche, like OWPVP.

    FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Member RarePosts: 5,484

    Its niche, like OWPVP.
    Worse than that. OWPVP only requires a viable financial plan to succeed. VR headsets require a large number of players willing to invest in the hardware it to bring a substantial number of publishers to the table. It's a chicken and the egg problem.

    "We have met the enemy and he is us." ~Pogo Possum. 

  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Member UncommonPosts: 782
    People seem to think VR is ok for everybody.  Its not.  The older you get the less likely you will be able to use it.

    In a fast action game I would definitely not be using it and I bet the percentage of people that would, would be 25 % or less. 

    If it were just about walking around and enjoying the scenery then, yeah, it might be tolerable for awhile.

    But VR is not a universal gaming adjunct.  There are many who either can't use it or do not wish to for various reasons.

    Its niche, like OWPVP.
    I do need to ask ... exactly what makes you think this? How old are you even talking about?
    Also ... a fast action game wouldn't work well on VR, at least not like what exists today. Ever play paintball? I think it would be closer to that.

    Something you need to remember, it may not always remain a niche. Gaming in general used to be a niche and so did MMOs. Look at them now.

    It all depends on how well it works and whether or not it offers a compelling enough experience to warrant any negatives it may have. Personally, I think the only legitimate threatening negative is motion sickness. However, that has been solved for most people anyway, and it's still getting better for those who do get motion sick.

    People who talk about having to wear a headset as being the factor to stop them, I think they are underestimating the experience it gives you.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,839
    Looking forward to trying it out. 

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • BoneserinoBoneserino Member UncommonPosts: 1,764
    Hi Brabbitt

    Well what makes me think this is the fact that there are physiologic aspects to using this type of equipment to play games.    I am one of those ancient gamers of course and If I take from your nickname that you were born 1987, that would make you the same age as my son.

    I think VR would be less effective the older you get, ( 40, 50, 60 ) because I have experienced it myself.  Your body is less able to tolerate this as years go on.   There is a reason we prefer to send younger people to space.  It stresses your senses and your body.  And some people just aren't suited for it no matter what the age.   I had a friend who just could not play shooter games because he got a sort of vertigo from them.  I had no idea then but I do know, now that I am 10 years older.

    So point of fact, if you think these games are cool now, then go crazy.  Chances are they will become less appealing , depending on the type of game, as time goes on.

    So for people < 35, VR is probably the cats ass.  Over that and it may becomes less appealing fast, as evidenced by the response to this poll, I might add. It seems to support a minority in overall favor for VR.

    FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  • psiicpsiic Member RarePosts: 1,612
    What we really need is someone to make a damn holo deck.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,663
    @Boneserino I'm not sure whether age will be prohibitive physically. It may be, but I do know that even at just 48 I'm a lot less interested in it than I was 15 - 20 years ago.

    Like @Loktofeit said, regularly? Who knows, but I can see myself trying it. I just can't see myself investing in $200 - $300 or more for peripheral just for the odd experiment.
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,663
    edited September 2015
    Here is an interesting article Ars posted to my FB feed that talks about VR and artists. Note that the artists is not a youngin and he wears glasses. Interesting. However, he's also not wearing the gear in a 3+ gaming session.

    http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/09/how-a-disney-artists-deceptive-vr-demo-still-heralds-a-new-digital-art-future/

    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

    It only took 3 people 8 words to rock Blizzard to its core.
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 6,826
    psiic said:
    What we really need is someone to make a damn holo deck.
    This
  • AldersAlders Member RarePosts: 2,160


    Something you need to remember, it may not always remain a niche. Gaming in general used to be a niche and so did MMOs. Look at them now.

    I take nothing positive from this.
  • NitthNitth Member UncommonPosts: 3,904
    XAPKen said:
    Dullahan said:
    VR is supported now in most major engines. Even Unity 5 already has VR camera support. The cost may prevent games from being designed completely around these headsets, but there will be plenty of games in the next 3-5 years that will at least support VR.

    Any idea on how they will handle UI for things like chat?

    I've been prototyping, and I keep coming up that with the headset on, keyboard is unlikely to be useful.

    In my design, it's trackball left hand and mouse right hand.  A S D W are replaced with ball moves (could be joystick too).

    Right hand is body facing with mouse (RMB down for body facing) and normal HUD when RMB is up.

    Typing text, like chat is done with a fly-in virtual keyboard on screen that works like a tablet's virtual keyboard.  When typing isn't needed, it flies off.

    note: head angle for look around would be head tracker, if present.  If not, it's like the FPS games where there is no neck, and you turn body to look around.

    What I don't have figured out is hotkeys for skills and and spells.  Player needs to move, change facing and hotkey skills, but I'm out of hands and buttons.  If hotkeys become virtual, then one cannot change facing while in mouse cursor mode.

    It's a reverse of the problem with portables.  In a portable, you can't see the screen for the virtual keyboard and fingers in the way.  In an HMD, you can't see the keyboard or fingers because the screen is in the way.

    Maybe a console like controller with a gazzilion buttons ???
    If your going to do VR you don't shoehorn 2D interfaces into a VR experience.

    Chat panel? Why? - It's 2D window that enables a user to operate a keyboard for communication. That seems a little out of place when your talking about displacing the physical world so you can get immersed in a virtual one.

    This is why VR wont shine anytime soon: developers have to start thinking outside of the box for solutions specific for VR, which wont happen of course because designing for a niche piece of hardware is not productive on a software development level or a financial one.
     

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  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,786
    edited September 2015
    As usual, I am shocked by the lack of knowledge of some people on this subject.

    • No, it will not damage your eyes, no screen does no matter how close it is to your eyes. Screens can cause eye strain if you stare at them for too long without resting now and then. Eye strain however, is temporary. Just take breaks now and then and VR wouldn't be any worse than any other monitor
    False.

    In some parts of Asia up to 90% of schoolchildren are nearsighted due to spending too much time looking at books and/or eyes not getting enough sunlight while they develop.
    • The headset is not so heavy to cause neck problems. It's a non issue.
    False.

    Not enough exercise and too long time stationary is already causing neck problems. Any extra weight added to the neck in this situation will cause more neck problems.

    Headset isn't so heavy that it would need to cause neck problems to everyone, but it's definitely heavy enough that it can and will affect people who are already misusing their necks.
     
  • VestigeGamerVestigeGamer Member UncommonPosts: 518
    People seem to think VR is ok for everybody.  Its not.  The older you get the less likely you will be able to use it.

    In a fast action game I would definitely not be using it and I bet the percentage of people that would, would be 25 % or less. 

    If it were just about walking around and enjoying the scenery then, yeah, it might be tolerable for awhile.

    But VR is not a universal gaming adjunct.  There are many who either can't use it or do not wish to for various reasons.

    Its niche, like OWPVP.
    I do need to ask ... exactly what makes you think this? How old are you even talking about?
    Also ... a fast action game wouldn't work well on VR, at least not like what exists today. Ever play paintball? I think it would be closer to that.

    Something you need to remember, it may not always remain a niche. Gaming in general used to be a niche and so did MMOs. Look at them now.

    It all depends on how well it works and whether or not it offers a compelling enough experience to warrant any negatives it may have. Personally, I think the only legitimate threatening negative is motion sickness. However, that has been solved for most people anyway, and it's still getting better for those who do get motion sick.

    People who talk about having to wear a headset as being the factor to stop them, I think they are underestimating the experience it gives you.
    If VR becomes "required hardware", I'll be leaving video gaming forever.  Luckily, I do not think I will ever have to worry about that.

    VG

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    psiic said:
    What we really need is someone to make a damn holo deck.

    The first major attempt at that is coming and it's called The Void

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • anemoanemo Member RarePosts: 1,749

    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."

  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    A lot of people think this is going to be a very cool gadget but once you actually used one of these you realize it has some severe drawbacks.

    Don't get me wrong. Games made with real support are going to be amazing and a real different experience but there are a few issues with this technology.

    1. Game and nothing else.
    Unless you are very good at blind typing you can't do anything else while wearing the headset. Alt-tab to your email real quick to reply? Check a website for some info about the mission you are stuck in? Someone calls you on skype and you need your microphone and headphones? All these will make you take off the headset.

    Unless the headset also supports a desktop mode driver for windows you have to take it off anyway to even see the desktop. (occulus has something like that but it has issues still)

    If you are used to a multi monitor setup you will need to switch that off as all currently available headsets can not handle extended desktops.

    2. Very uncomfortable over an extended period.
    I have only tested 2 of them but they are all very uncomfortable over a longer period of time. Taking them off every hour was a must for me. It's very stressful for your eyes and neck. Results may vary.

    3. Disorienting and the glasses problem
    While playing the experience is great but as soon as you get to static screens or the desktop it feels like someone kicked you in the head. Your brain needs to adjust. This can be very discomforting.

    People with glasses will have issues. There is not one for all solution and a lot of them will not be able to enjoy the headsets even with contact lenses.


    I doubt this will ever become mainstream and it will, just like last time, be a hype and "cool thing" for a couple of years and then die due to the much more flexible monitor solution that also have a lot higher resolutions.
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  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Sure, but I am expecting the first game to be pretty crappy. A bit like "Dragons lair" that experimented with graphics and forgot to add gameplay due to it.

    And god help us with the asian VR games, they will put 25% of the games resources on boob mechanics.

    But I think as soon as someone realizes the potential and gets funding for it we will get a few good games, hopefully MMOs as well and not just FPS games that tend to get most of the high end technology first.
  • MusicTechGeekMusicTechGeek Member UncommonPosts: 12
    No desire for VR.  To me its just like 3D TV was going to be the "big" thing...it's all but dead now.  Unless EVERY game allows use for a VR headset, I think it's a ridiculous and unnecessary expense.
  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Member UncommonPosts: 782
    Hi Brabbitt

    Well what makes me think this is the fact that there are physiologic aspects to using this type of equipment to play games.    I am one of those ancient gamers of course and If I take from your nickname that you were born 1987, that would make you the same age as my son.

    I think VR would be less effective the older you get, ( 40, 50, 60 ) because I have experienced it myself.  Your body is less able to tolerate this as years go on.   There is a reason we prefer to send younger people to space.  It stresses your senses and your body.  And some people just aren't suited for it no matter what the age.   I had a friend who just could not play shooter games because he got a sort of vertigo from them.  I had no idea then but I do know, now that I am 10 years older.

    So point of fact, if you think these games are cool now, then go crazy.  Chances are they will become less appealing , depending on the type of game, as time goes on.

    So for people < 35, VR is probably the cats ass.  Over that and it may becomes less appealing fast, as evidenced by the response to this poll, I might add. It seems to support a minority in overall favor for VR.
    I see, but just remember, this doesn't pertain to everyone. Nor do you know the actual percentages or any concrete numbers for age range and such. It's likely not even that big of a concern. At least, I wouldn't think it is.

    Vrika said:
    False.

    In some parts of Asia up to 90% of schoolchildren are nearsighted due to spending too much time looking at books and/or eyes not getting enough sunlight while they develop.
    It's due to specifically not getting enough sunlight and what is causing them not to get enough sun light is due to spending to much time looking in books and staying in doors. It has nothing to do with actually looking at books or screens. All you have to do is read a few scientific studies on this, and you soon find out there is actually no proof screens or anything too close to your face causes permanent damage. It's actually a very common misconception. The original idea that it harms eyes is due to children staring to close to screens end up having bad eyes. However, the reason they are so close to the screen to begin with is because they have bad eyes.

    Vrika said:
    False.

    Not enough exercise and too long time stationary is already causing neck problems. Any extra weight added to the neck in this situation will cause more neck problems.

    Headset isn't so heavy that it would need to cause neck problems to everyone, but it's definitely heavy enough that it can and will affect people who are already misusing their necks.
    That isn't really an issue with the headset ... that is an issue with people not taking care of themselves appropriately.

    If VR becomes "required hardware", I'll be leaving video gaming forever.  Luckily, I do not think I will ever have to worry about that.
    I doubt it would ever become required by all games. I do expect some games to be made specifically for VR though. It's inevitable.

    I don't think VR will be for everyone. There will certainly be people who exist that may not like it for several reasons. I doubt it's going to be the same reasons that exist today though.
  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Member UncommonPosts: 782


    1. Game and nothing else.
    Unless you are very good at blind typing you can't do anything else while wearing the headset. Alt-tab to your email real quick to reply? Check a website for some info about the mission you are stuck in? Someone calls you on skype and you need your microphone and headphones? All these will make you take off the headset.

    Unless the headset also supports a desktop mode driver for windows you have to take it off anyway to even see the desktop. (occulus has something like that but it has issues still)

    If you are used to a multi monitor setup you will need to switch that off as all currently available headsets can not handle extended desktops.

    Why would you want to do anything else if you are playing a VR game? I would assume you would be rather focused on the game. But I do suppose a lot of people like to multi-task. I never understood it, so my view is a little biased here. I don't get why you would want to do something at the same time as playing a game unless it has lots of down time.

    2. Very uncomfortable over an extended period.
    I have only tested 2 of them but they are all very uncomfortable over a longer period of time. Taking them off every hour was a must for me. It's very stressful for your eyes and neck. Results may vary.

    Likely to be solved as time goes on. So I really wouldn't consider that a major problem. It's also going to vary among those who use it. Which you essentially said yourself already.

    3. Disorienting and the glasses problem
    While playing the experience is great but as soon as you get to static screens or the desktop it feels like someone kicked you in the head. Your brain needs to adjust. This can be very discomforting.

    People with glasses will have issues. There is not one for all solution and a lot of them will not be able to enjoy the headsets even with contact lenses.

    Another temporary problem. This is something that can be figured out as time goes on. Developers are so used to making games a particular way, that it's going to take some time to figure out what you should and shouldn't do while developing a game for VR.

    As for glasses, I doubt that is going to cause too many problems. Simply take them off, or wear them if the headset works with them.

    I doubt this will ever become mainstream and it will, just like last time, be a hype and "cool thing" for a couple of years and then die due to the much more flexible monitor solution that also have a lot higher resolutions.
    It going "mainstream" is debatable. What is even mainstream anyway?

    As for it only lasting a few years? I don't see that happening. I can't even see why that would happen. Monitors specs are increased all the time, and specs will continue to increase.

    It may not become mainstream .. but it dying is seriously doubtful as well. A market most certainly does exist, and it's fairly large too. Large enough to make a profit.
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    A lot of people think this is going to be a very cool gadget but once you actually used one of these you realize it has some severe drawbacks.


    If VR gear is anything like any other consumer electronic device (ex: CD player, VCR, 3D printer) then 10 years from now it will be a fraction of its current price and size. If the 2025 VR hardware looks anything like a 2015 Oculus Rift it will be because somewhere in the next two years the economy collapsed or some other apocalyptic event has happened that brought the world and technology to its knees. At that point, an uncomfortable VR headset will be the last of any of our concerns. :) 


    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

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