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It's the vocal minority...the industry is fine.

Tasslehoff35Tasslehoff35 Member UncommonPosts: 962
edited September 2015 in General Gaming
So a quick look through these forums, most game forums and other sites and it's is easy to see the real issue with mmorpgs and video games in general is the vocal minority who litter forums with QQing.


 The good news is those who QQ about games they don't play, games not being free enough, games are not the way they were back during 8bit and dial up, those who can't move on after a game they played closed and spend four failed years QQing about a game that took its place and those who think they are entitled to everything now are the minority.


 The truth is Video Games have never been better, there has never been such a wide range of games available to us. The saying misery loves company and clearly there are some who can't understand sometimes you just grow out of a hobby. There is nothing wrong with that I remember when I was 7 and didn't like micro machines anymore. I can't believe I was more mature at 7 then some of the 50 year olds here who can't move on if they can't find a video game they enjoy.

The industry is fine and thriving it's not the developers that is the issue its those I mentioned above. 
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Comments

  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,403
    edited September 2015
    There are definitely some absolutely amazing games being made at the moment, the last couple of years have been a wonderful time to be a gamer.
    Post edited by YashaX on
    ....
  • PalaPala Member UncommonPosts: 288
    edited September 2015
    Except the truth is that some elements from older games are no longer available, and that people haven't fallen out of love with their hobby but cant find enough quality that they used to. But go ahead and blame the customers, clients or players however you want to call them. 

    Why bash the gamers that take an effort to share their desires and set down in writing what they would like and be willing to pay for. When that happens about the products that my company provides we are extremely grateful as it makes our jobs easier.

    I have tried all modern MMOs and think they are terribly boring, so I play a 10 year old one. Unfortunately the UI is clunky, the graphics are dated but the worst is the lack of players. So I have tried everything else on the market and nothing was as good. Honorable mentions would be  Eve which kept me for over a year and AoC about 2 months. The rest couldn't manage more than a few hours. 

    So I play a 10 year old one that gives me the play style that I crave, group based, challenging and with relatively open world, with no endless quest lines and ability to solo everything. 

    Skyforge has grabbed me for 4-5 days now and thats awesome but I can tell that it lacks certain things and it wont last long, probably a month but I am so happy and grateful when that happens these days.

  • Tasslehoff35Tasslehoff35 Member UncommonPosts: 962
    Pala said:
    Except the truth is that some elements from older games are no longer available, and that people haven't fallen out of love with their hobby but cant find enough quality that they used to. But go ahead and blame the customers, clients or players however you want to call them. 

    Why bash the gamers that take an effort to share their desires and set down in writing what they would like and be willing to pay for. When that happens about the products that my company provides we are extremely grateful as it makes our jobs easier.

    I have tried all modern MMOs and think they are terribly boring, so I play a 10 year old one. Unfortunately the UI is clunky, the graphics are dated but the worst is the lack of players. So I have tried everything else on the market and nothing was as good. Honorable mentions would be  Eve which kept me for over a year and AoC about 2 months. The rest couldn't manage more than a few hours. 

    So I play a 10 year old one that gives me the play style that I crave, group based, challenging and with relatively open world, with no endless quest lines and ability to solo everything. 

    Skyforge has grabbed me for 4-5 days now and thats awesome but I can tell that it lacks certain things and it wont last long, probably a month but I am so happy and grateful when that happens these days.



    So the industry has left those like you behind.  Why cater to a very small percentage of players like you who want games most don't want?  Developers have tried and they always fail.  

    I'm not bashing the players,  I'm bashing the vocal minority who litter ever games forums, website like this with their tireless endless rants about how I play a ten year old game and everything new sucks.  When the fact is very little people play your ten year old game for a reason,  it's not what the masses want and enjoy.  There is a reason there are more mmorpgs today that have far exceeded any of these ten year old games ever did when you compare them to any matrix available.  

    Again the developers are giving the gamers what they want, it's why the industry is thriving and more popular then ever before, it's why there is more competition then ever before.  Yes they have left those like you behind, no that is not a bad thing. 
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    What? There were a lot wider range on the Commodore 64, far more games were releasing back then and the sequel percentage were far lower. Games today are more expensive and have far larger teams but it is tradeoff. Most games today are owned by a few publishers.

    The best thing today is Steam that lets small indie companies sell their game but there is a reason that most gamer magazines came out every 2 weeks and still had far more games in them then the modern monthlys have.

    Funny enough were the game price about as high back then even though the budgets were a lot smaller and $50 in 1984 were a lot of cash back then. I guess that is the reason piracy have gone down so much since (whatever EA thinks). Having 500+ pirated games were more or less standard back then for a C-64 user.


  • PalaPala Member UncommonPosts: 288
    edited September 2015
    Right, and yet I have spent hundreds of Euros just this year on games, but the industry has left me and those like me behind. Well, good for them! Let them make their copy-paste games and systems which are extremely 'accessible' or in other words you can play them while asleep on you keyboard. 

    Feel free to defend lack of originality and creativity as much as you want. There are always apologists in every industry.

    To be fair you didnt define which industry, I took it as MMO industry which is certainly 'thriving'. Other gaming, well, even my mother plays games these days so its hardly surprising there are more people involved. She only learned to use a PC about 2 years ago, but its fair to say that the games she plays cant exactly be called 'great'.
  • Tasslehoff35Tasslehoff35 Member UncommonPosts: 962
    Loke666 said:
    What? There were a lot wider range on the Commodore 64, far more games were releasing back then and the sequel percentage were far lower. Games today are more expensive and have far larger teams but it is tradeoff. Most games today are owned by a few publishers.

    The best thing today is Steam that lets small indie companies sell their game but there is a reason that most gamer magazines came out every 2 weeks and still had far more games in them then the modern monthlys have.

    Funny enough were the game price about as high back then even though the budgets were a lot smaller and $50 in 1984 were a lot of cash back then. I guess that is the reason piracy have gone down so much since (whatever EA thinks). Having 500+ pirated games were more or less standard back then for a C-64 user.


    Ok I agree steam helps but you are crazy comparing games today to games on the c-64!  Your 500+ pirated games combined wouldn't even compare to any game out today.  
  • PalaPala Member UncommonPosts: 288
    edited September 2015
    Loke666 said:
     Having 500+ pirated games were more or less standard back then for a C-64 user.


    I remember when my friends dad got us 500 pirated games for the Amiga from his mate at he Rover factory,  early 90s hehehe  :))
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,487
    edited September 2015
     Vocal minority on forums is *normal* - so not sure what the point of the OP is.

    Every dev studio on planet knows what small % of forum users there are - devs look at at the total number of active players and comparei it to total # of forum posters. Simple math.

    What we say on forums means very little in the end.


  • PurutzilPurutzil Member UncommonPosts: 3,048
    edited September 2015
    You have to also know that criticism is NOT bad. To often I see people (particularly fans) who aren't open to admitting a fault with a game they like. You have to be willing to accept it and vocally speak up about it. An issue won't get fixed if a developer does not know it exists. 

    A big issue I see personally as a whole with the industry having issue is the blatent cash grabs going along side games. No longer do we just have $50 games, now we have $60 games with a bunch of other pieces cut out and pasted in later for a lot more money. DLC itself has gone from a cool idea to a plague in many games as we find we get less and less, while being expected to pay more and more.

    MMos in particular with the F2P model often have lack luster design choices being put in place to make the gameplay purposely more grindy to enforce use of the cash shop which cheapens the experience for those who play free, while making those who pay often spend a lot more cash then they would ever before in an old box + subscription model.

    Games are advancing in many areas, but they are also falling back in other places. 
  • Tasslehoff35Tasslehoff35 Member UncommonPosts: 962
    DMKano said:
     Vocal minority on forums is *normal* - so not sure what the point of the OP is.

    What we say on forums means very little in the end.


    It appears you do know what the point was...
  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,156
    The industry is fine and thriving it's not the developers that is the issue its those I mentioned above. 
    I would say it is a little less than fine. It is still recovering from a crash in 2013. Due to long production cycles it will take it a few years to get back on its feet.
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,403
    Loke666 said:
    What? There were a lot wider range on the Commodore 64, far more games were releasing back then and the sequel percentage were far lower. Games today are more expensive and have far larger teams but it is tradeoff. Most games today are owned by a few publishers.

    The best thing today is Steam that lets small indie companies sell their game but there is a reason that most gamer magazines came out every 2 weeks and still had far more games in them then the modern monthlys have.

    Funny enough were the game price about as high back then even though the budgets were a lot smaller and $50 in 1984 were a lot of cash back then. I guess that is the reason piracy have gone down so much since (whatever EA thinks). Having 500+ pirated games were more or less standard back then for a C-64 user.


    Haha, yeah the sequels and the remasters are a bit over the top these days. But glad I don't have to load up games off a cassette anymore....

    Also, I honestly believe there is/has been a lot of innovation and experimentation in games over the years; masterpieces like Witcher 3 I think are really a showcase for how the industry has evolved. The same can be said for mmos imo, and I'm really looking forward to how some upcoming games take the genre further.
    ....
  • Tasslehoff35Tasslehoff35 Member UncommonPosts: 962
    The industry is fine and thriving it's not the developers that is the issue its those I mentioned above. 
    I would say it is a little less than fine. It is still recovering from a crash in 2013. Due to long production cycles it will take it a few years to get back on its feet.
    Video game crash of '13 not sure what doom and gloom website you frequent but there was no crash in '13.

    http://www.engadget.com/2014/02/12/npd-us-video-game-sales-reach-15-39-billion-in-2013/
  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    edited September 2015

    I think its fair to categorize gaming "overall" as doing great.  The MMORPG genre, however, is not.  It is dismal compared to "back in the day."  This is not to say that the genre hasn't modernized, because it has. It just hasn't innovated.  It's old and dated, and ironically enough the old is better than the new because the new is not only the same ol' same ol', it is also an empty, meaningless, unrewarding, unchallenging and bastardized, fast food version of what was once the gem of the video game industry.
    Post edited by LacedOpium on
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    I would say it is a little less than fine. It is still recovering from a crash in 2013. Due to long production cycles it will take it a few years to get back on its feet.
    Video game crash of '13 not sure what doom and gloom website you frequent but there was no crash in '13.

    http://www.engadget.com/2014/02/12/npd-us-video-game-sales-reach-15-39-billion-in-2013/
    There was a crash in 2008 that affected almost everything including games, but 2013 is news to me.

    Ok I agree steam helps but you are crazy comparing games today to games on the c-64!  Your 500+ pirated games combined wouldn't even compare to any game out today.  
    A lot of the genres got started back then and there were more innovation back then than ever before or since. That doesn't mean all new games suck today, but there is a huge lack in originality now for most games. Back then all games were made by gamers for gamers, now a lot of times do weasels in suits make the decisions.

    Of course did a huge percentage of those games suck but that is still true. There are way fwer masterpieces around today, for every Witcher or Minecraft game there is 7 copied FPS and soccer games at least.

    Now with MMOs things were a bit slower, the first MMO ish game is from 1991 but MMOs havn't really moved much forward in a long time. I am hoping we will see an end of the huge publishers with zero imigination we seen so much in the last 10-15 years and a return to indie companies doing games they themself want to play.

    The first MMO, followed by meridian 59 5 years later.
  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Member UncommonPosts: 3,140
    edited September 2015
    Enjoy your Call of Duty 20, battlefield 8, Assassin's Creed 6, etc ,etc. The market for the most part is stagnant. You get a gem occasionally I'll give you that. But the rest of the time it's the same game repackaged and you know what?

    That's what killed the industry last time.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 1,991
    The Market is great?  Why is no AAA MMO coming out any time soon and why are Kickstarters the thing right now even if they are failing?  No the Market is not better its Stagnant.  What we will likely see is the market segmenting off a bit more in the MMO market to more casual games being the MOBAs, the Hearthstones, and the like for the casual gamer.  Then MMORPGs again going back to a little bit more smaller market than currently because you cannot make a MMORPG on a Hundred Million Dollar budget plus where your subscriber base is around 500K and have content over in 1 month.  It needs to be in the middle of Hardcore old school MMOs and todays Casual hop from MMO to MMO.   
  • nbtscannbtscan Member UncommonPosts: 862
    Pretty bad that most of the games I play end up being the indie games from my PS Plus subscription.  There aren't many games releasing I'm interested in, but that's probably because I usually narrow my scope to JRPGs and that's even further narrowed by I don't like playing on portable devices.  (where most of them are being released right now)

    At least next year looks like it has some potential for some AAA JRPGs to release.
  • coretex666coretex666 Member EpicPosts: 3,617
    I wish I was like you.
    Easily amused.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] UncommonPosts: 0
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • mark2123mark2123 Member UncommonPosts: 450
    So a quick look through these forums, most game forums and other sites and it's is easy to see the real issue with mmorpgs and video games in general is the vocal minority who litter forums with QQing.


     The good news is those who QQ about games they don't play, games not being free enough, games are not the way they were back during 8bit and dial up, those who can't move on after a game they played closed and spend four failed years QQing about a game that took its place and those who think they are entitled to everything now are the minority.


     The truth is Video Games have never been better, there has never been such a wide range of games available to us. The saying misery loves company and clearly there are some who can't understand sometimes you just grow out of a hobby. There is nothing wrong with that I remember when I was 7 and didn't like micro machines anymore. I can't believe I was more mature at 7 then some of the 50 year olds here who can't move on if they can't find a video game they enjoy.

    The industry is fine and thriving it's not the developers that is the issue its those I mentioned above. 
    Can't see the point to your post.  If you think the vocal minority are wrong, why come on here to say so instead of just carrying on playing with the games you like, as their views clearly don't matter to you, so is it worth you taking a stance and being vocal yourself (ok for you, not for them?)

    It's about opinion and I happen to think there are no MMOs right now that have anything I haven't seen dozens of times before which has made me a bit bored of the genre and I live in hope that a company will produce something amazing, as is happening with the single/mutli player games both last year, this year and to come later in the year. Sadly, no MMO of late is anything original and the older ones have been mostly done to death now and rehashing same-old types of content, or stuff they think their players want but don't.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,080
    mark2123 said:
    So a quick look through these forums, most game forums and other sites and it's is easy to see the real issue with mmorpgs and video games in general is the vocal minority who litter forums with QQing.


     The good news is those who QQ about games they don't play, games not being free enough, games are not the way they were back during 8bit and dial up, those who can't move on after a game they played closed and spend four failed years QQing about a game that took its place and those who think they are entitled to everything now are the minority.


     The truth is Video Games have never been better, there has never been such a wide range of games available to us. The saying misery loves company and clearly there are some who can't understand sometimes you just grow out of a hobby. There is nothing wrong with that I remember when I was 7 and didn't like micro machines anymore. I can't believe I was more mature at 7 then some of the 50 year olds here who can't move on if they can't find a video game they enjoy.

    The industry is fine and thriving it's not the developers that is the issue its those I mentioned above. 
    Can't see the point to your post.  If you think the vocal minority are wrong, why come on here to say so instead of just carrying on playing with the games you like, as their views clearly don't matter to you, so is it worth you taking a stance and being vocal yourself (ok for you, not for them?)

    It's about opinion and I happen to think there are no MMOs right now that have anything I haven't seen dozens of times before which has made me a bit bored of the genre and I live in hope that a company will produce something amazing, as is happening with the single/mutli player games both last year, this year and to come later in the year. Sadly, no MMO of late is anything original and the older ones have been mostly done to death now and rehashing same-old types of content, or stuff they think their players want but don't.
    It's just whining about the whiners.  >:)

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • Tasslehoff35Tasslehoff35 Member UncommonPosts: 962
    mark2123 said:
    So a quick look through these forums, most game forums and other sites and it's is easy to see the real issue with mmorpgs and video games in general is the vocal minority who litter forums with QQing.


     The good news is those who QQ about games they don't play, games not being free enough, games are not the way they were back during 8bit and dial up, those who can't move on after a game they played closed and spend four failed years QQing about a game that took its place and those who think they are entitled to everything now are the minority.


     The truth is Video Games have never been better, there has never been such a wide range of games available to us. The saying misery loves company and clearly there are some who can't understand sometimes you just grow out of a hobby. There is nothing wrong with that I remember when I was 7 and didn't like micro machines anymore. I can't believe I was more mature at 7 then some of the 50 year olds here who can't move on if they can't find a video game they enjoy.

    The industry is fine and thriving it's not the developers that is the issue its those I mentioned above. 
    Can't see the point to your post.  If you think the vocal minority are wrong, why come on here to say so instead of just carrying on playing with the games you like, as their views clearly don't matter to you, so is it worth you taking a stance and being vocal yourself (ok for you, not for them?)

    It's about opinion and I happen to think there are no MMOs right now that have anything I haven't seen dozens of times before which has made me a bit bored of the genre and I live in hope that a company will produce something amazing, as is happening with the single/mutli player games both last year, this year and to come later in the year. Sadly, no MMO of late is anything original and the older ones have been mostly done to death now and rehashing same-old types of content, or stuff they think their players want but don't.
    I'd love for you to point out where I said they can't voice their crying.  Not once did I say you can't  post because all you do is QQ.  I said those who QQ are the vocal minority and are being left behind and for the good of the industry.  So yes I can post all I want about whatever I want.  If you don't like it you don't need to read or reply.  Just like I choose to read and reply to all the QQing going on...
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    caldeathe said:
    This is exactly the case. Any industry that thrives does so by filling the needs of today's customers, not last year's. There is increasing variety, new games are either finding a niche or failing. Some of those "niches" are larger than the entire industry was closer to its founding. The endless angst about how this or that game is going to mean the end of everything and "people shouldn't do this" or "shouldn't support that" is complete bovine waste. There are more people playing more games every day, and the industry will continue to adapt to fill the customers' requirements.
    Those people are moving towards mobile games by now, the type of players that came in with the internet mainstream age in the late 90s early 00s are playing on their IPADs now.

    The console crowd still hangs on but the PC crowd is going back to the mid 90s now. It is particularly noticable with MMOs. MMOs that would have done greatly 5 or 10 years ago do very poorly now.

    Candy crush and similar popular games are still games of course but something have hppened with PC games. More and more games release both on consoles and PCs today since they have to if they want as many copies sold as a few years back.

    Gaming is indeed increasing in numbers but it isn't the games most of us here like to discuss. And with MMOs there have been a movement towards crowdfunded indie games lately, no larger Western publisher have a MMO in development. Daybreak is probably the largest one right now (assuming Undead labs/Microsofts zombie MMO is cancelled, not sure).

    PC gaming is still growing in certain parts of the world, like China and South Korea but in the West we are more and more moving to a few huge games, sequels of already successful games and smaller indie games. Now that isn't really a bad thing unless you work for EA or Activision and small indie games can be huge fast like Minecraft.
  • LobotomistLobotomist Member RarePosts: 5,801
    edited September 2015


     The truth is Video Games have never been better, there has never been such a wide range of games available to us. The saying misery loves company and clearly there are some who can't understand sometimes you just grow out of a hobby. There is nothing wrong with that I remember when I was 7 and didn't like micro machines anymore. I can't believe I was more mature at 7 then some of the 50 year olds here who can't move on if they can't find a video game they enjoy.


    I work in game industry and can tell you that this what you wrote above is exactly the core of the problem.


    There are so many games right now, on average day there is 20 new games published on steam.
    And if we talk AAA titles the bar is rised so high with titles like Witcher 3 or GTA V, that if you dont have 500 people company with at least 300 million dollar investment , you are out of competition.

    Do you read news ? Just this month : Gazzilion layoffs , Funcom is bankrupt and closing , Cryptic layoffs , Turbine closing servers and rumored to be on verge of closing , Pathfinder Online whole team fired. Thats just this month.

    Right now working in game industry feels like episode of survivor




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