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Shutting down soon

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  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 796
    Bluddwolf said:
     If that includes approaching Hasbro to include more of the Pathfinder IP, I don't see why that wouldn't be on the table.
    That would never happen.  Hasbro and Paizo are not friends.  Hasbro (Wizards of the Coast) is doing really well lately with 5th edition.  They have multiple video games based off their IP now (Sword Coast Legends about to come out.)  Paizo of course could reach out.  Hasbro's response would probably be something along the lines of 'die in a fire.'
  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Member RarePosts: 1,943
    Rhoklaw said:
    So I wonder what happens to those who paid for a years subscription, like myself, lol.


    Same thing that happened to myself and others who bought founders packs for Moonrise. Nothing but a bunch of corporate shenanigans and refusal to even acknowledge the issue of refunds. 

    I'm pissed off enough about my $20, can't imagine how people like yourself who spent considerably more must feel. 

    As an aside, Jeff Strain and Undead Labs can go f**k themselves. 

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!

    We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD. 

    #IStandWithVic

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,938
    No sane company would want to jump into this mess.  Any smart business person simply interested in the IP would let this die and in a few years start from scratch.  

    I challenge ANYONE to name one part of what was produced that would entice a company to pay $1-$2 million to buy a piece of it.  The engine is horrendous, they still have a ton of exposure to unfulfilled Kickstarter items and pre-paid game time, their staff is down to 3 people and the buzz is all negative.  Realistically speaking, why would ANYONE invest as opposed to creating their own game from scratch?  There is simply too much baggage and not enough up side.


    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • arobiarobi Member UncommonPosts: 124
    Anyone who is stupid enough to kickstart this at this point if they do one, is well .... is basically lighting their wallet on fire lol. 
  • BluddwolfBluddwolf Member UncommonPosts: 355
    No sane company would want to jump into this mess.  Any smart business person simply interested in the IP would let this die and in a few years start from scratch.  

    I challenge ANYONE to name one part of what was produced that would entice a company to pay $1-$2 million to buy a piece of it.  The engine is horrendous, they still have a ton of exposure to unfulfilled Kickstarter items and pre-paid game time, their staff is down to 3 people and the buzz is all negative.  Realistically speaking, why would ANYONE invest as opposed to creating their own game from scratch?  There is simply too much baggage and not enough up side.


    I have said, the only thing with value remaining is the IP and maybe the few dozen players (less than 200 I'd guess) that would be a good base for alpha testing a new game.

    Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 9,990
    THEHIG said:
    I wonder how much Mr. Dancey made off with this time. When will folks learn not to trust him.
    its not about not trusting him, its about not trusting these practices.

    It would be quite the sight to see this happening to Star Citizen after the ridiculous amounts of dollars they got from players and the game is not even out.




  • saurus123saurus123 Member UncommonPosts: 665
    ppl never learn

    and will throw money at some awesome game ideas that will never be released
    and the "devs" of these games get rich and lol
  • TemperHSTemperHS Member UncommonPosts: 72
    @Slapshot1188  

    Well put, I couldn't agree more. I backed the game right from the very start and it has proven to be one of the most disappointing experiences I've ever had the displeasure of dealing with.

    Really, really glad I didn't purchase a DT account. I feel sorry for anyone who did.
  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,297
    Tried it, and just didn't care for it.  I think it had great intentions, but I don't think they were up for the task they set themselves.

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,938
    Bluddwolf said:
    No sane company would want to jump into this mess.  Any smart business person simply interested in the IP would let this die and in a few years start from scratch.  

    I challenge ANYONE to name one part of what was produced that would entice a company to pay $1-$2 million to buy a piece of it.  The engine is horrendous, they still have a ton of exposure to unfulfilled Kickstarter items and pre-paid game time, their staff is down to 3 people and the buzz is all negative.  Realistically speaking, why would ANYONE invest as opposed to creating their own game from scratch?  There is simply too much baggage and not enough up side.


    I have said, the only thing with value remaining is the IP and maybe the few dozen players (less than 200 I'd guess) that would be a good base for alpha testing a new game.
    Those 200 players you reference are the ones that lead the developers down this path of ruin.  No not all of them of course, but the ones with the loudest voices.   I do not believe that any sane developer would want the same folks to make up the core base for testing any new game.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    DMKano said:

    Never feel sorry for people that spend money in kickstarters, as more than likely it was disposable income so no big deal for them, and second - they wilingly donated knowing the risks.



    What about feeling sorry for people who play the beta, love the way a game is and buy a founders pack but then get hosed as the launch version makes major changes from the game they loved in beta?  Is that ok?  Did they "willingly donate knowing the risks"?  Guess which game I'm referring to??? 

    Personally I feel bad for those that bought into this one.  It seemed this game had the support of the Pathfinder founding company and all we heard out of Ryan was rainbows and butterflies.  If a kickstarter was going to make it, this one would have seemed like a solid bet.
    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 9,990
    Talonsin said:
    DMKano said:

    Never feel sorry for people that spend money in kickstarters, as more than likely it was disposable income so no big deal for them, and second - they wilingly donated knowing the risks.



    What about feeling sorry for people who play the beta, love the way a game is and buy a founders pack but then get hosed as the launch version makes major changes from the game they loved in beta?  Is that ok?  Did they "willingly donate knowing the risks"?  Guess which game I'm referring to??? 

    Personally I feel bad for those that bought into this one.  It seemed this game had the support of the Pathfinder founding company and all we heard out of Ryan was rainbows and butterflies.  If a kickstarter was going to make it, this one would have seemed like a solid bet.
    if you buy a founders pack, you are still part of the problem. You could wait for the games release, or a free beta, try the game and then buy it at launch. I dont feel bad for anyone buying into alpha/beta/founders pack access either. Being desperate only tells companies they are doing it right (when they are clearly doing it wrong but you still support them).




  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,297
    There is nothing wrong with supporting a game if you think it's good or might be good. You've just gotta be prepared for it not to pan out. Happens. Just don't risk money you can't afford.

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • BluddwolfBluddwolf Member UncommonPosts: 355
    Talonsin said:
    DMKano said:

    Never feel sorry for people that spend money in kickstarters, as more than likely it was disposable income so no big deal for them, and second - they wilingly donated knowing the risks.



    What about feeling sorry for people who play the beta, love the way a game is and buy a founders pack but then get hosed as the launch version makes major changes from the game they loved in beta?  Is that ok?  Did they "willingly donate knowing the risks"?  Guess which game I'm referring to??? 

    Personally I feel bad for those that bought into this one.  It seemed this game had the support of the Pathfinder founding company and all we heard out of Ryan was rainbows and butterflies.  If a kickstarter was going to make it, this one would have seemed like a solid bet.
    But, there was no beta, and you had to have backed the kick starter to even be in Alpha.  That was one of the main problems with PFO, Ryan's refusal to have a real development process for the game.   He was either completely clueless or the "cash grab" allegation is true (maybe both as well).




    Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Bluddwolf said:
     If that includes approaching Hasbro to include more of the Pathfinder IP, I don't see why that wouldn't be on the table.
    That would never happen.  Hasbro and Paizo are not friends.  Hasbro (Wizards of the Coast) is doing really well lately with 5th edition.  They have multiple video games based off their IP now (Sword Coast Legends about to come out.)  Paizo of course could reach out.  Hasbro's response would probably be something along the lines of 'die in a fire.'
    Well, I am pretty sure Hasbro wouldn't mind buying up Paizo and add it to their portfolio but as long as they are independant that wont happen.

    Wizards have kinda backtracked since they pulled back the open D20 license, that idea turned out to not be as great as they thought it was.  They certainly don't like Pathfinder one bit, they lost a lot of money due to it in combinationwith the crap 4th edition was and they also lost a lot of status among older roleplayers which is pretty hard and a long time work to win back.

    A lot of people thought Wizard betrayed D&D and moved over to Pathfinder. And I have a feeling that Wizard hoped for more from Neverwinter so they are probably doing the finger pyramid of evil contemplation right now and grinning.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,303
    IMO it would be best to give up,although the few that support the game would not think so.

    I seriously don't like all the thousands of developers jumping into the gaming market with so few resources and money,it is not a good option for a Triple A game.

    NEVER believe the fanbois hype,i don't know how to describe it in words but it happens everywhere in life.I always see groups of people that like to defend and grasp onto off the normal ideas and call them their own,like it is THEIR game or THEIR music or THEIR group or THEIR sport etc etc.

    Now to be fair to this business,they did give EVERYONE a chance to check out their game unlike most devs that just want the money from testing and get a false sense of where their game is really at.It is always better to know the truth rather than hear constant fanbois banter about the next coming of ,well you know.However i think they didn't allow others to give feedback until they felt the game was in trouble,big mistake,you need to get the entire community involved with your game from day 1.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 796
    Loke666 said:
    Bluddwolf said:
     If that includes approaching Hasbro to include more of the Pathfinder IP, I don't see why that wouldn't be on the table.
    That would never happen.  Hasbro and Paizo are not friends.  Hasbro (Wizards of the Coast) is doing really well lately with 5th edition.  They have multiple video games based off their IP now (Sword Coast Legends about to come out.)  Paizo of course could reach out.  Hasbro's response would probably be something along the lines of 'die in a fire.'
    Well, I am pretty sure Hasbro wouldn't mind buying up Paizo and add it to their portfolio but as long as they are independant that wont happen.

    Wizards have kinda backtracked since they pulled back the open D20 license, that idea turned out to not be as great as they thought it was.  They certainly don't like Pathfinder one bit, they lost a lot of money due to it in combinationwith the crap 4th edition was and they also lost a lot of status among older roleplayers which is pretty hard and a long time work to win back.

    A lot of people thought Wizard betrayed D&D and moved over to Pathfinder. And I have a feeling that Wizard hoped for more from Neverwinter so they are probably doing the finger pyramid of evil contemplation right now and grinning.
    While that may be all true (and it is,) 5e is a MASSIVE success for them.  It's beating their expectations in sales.  I have absolutely no idea about the video game component of all of it.  I do know Sword Coast Legends is getting rave reviews and it's based on the 5e ruleset.  

    As for Pathfinder, all they have is their IP (read: lore.)  

    You want to know what's really funny about all this?  
    Ryan Dancey is the man responsible for the Open Gaming License that allowed for Pathfinder to be made in the first place.  That means he's also the man responsible for the decision that ultimate bit Wizards in the ass.  I don't blame him for that though of course.  Wizards was honestly moronic in their decision making at that point (as you mention above.)
  • tharkthark Member UncommonPosts: 1,188
    Goblinworks is the Company to blame for this..and Paizo will probably do something more in the lines of D&D Online or scrapp this game altogether
  • User836User836 Member UncommonPosts: 117
    edited September 2015
    Bluddwolf said:
    Talonsin said:
    DMKano said:

    Never feel sorry for people that spend money in kickstarters, as more than likely it was disposable income so no big deal for them, and second - they wilingly donated knowing the risks.



    What about feeling sorry for people who play the beta, love the way a game is and buy a founders pack but then get hosed as the launch version makes major changes from the game they loved in beta?  Is that ok?  Did they "willingly donate knowing the risks"?  Guess which game I'm referring to??? 

    Personally I feel bad for those that bought into this one.  It seemed this game had the support of the Pathfinder founding company and all we heard out of Ryan was rainbows and butterflies.  If a kickstarter was going to make it, this one would have seemed like a solid bet.
    But, there was no beta, and you had to have backed the kick starter to even be in Alpha.  That was one of the main problems with PFO, Ryan's refusal to have a real development process for the game.   He was either completely clueless or the "cash grab" allegation is true (maybe both as well).
    Well, in Ryan's own words, he did suggest a "normal" development plan initially but Lisa Stephens challenged him to do things differently:

    "When I first approached Lisa about a Pathfinder MMO, I presented a plan roughly on par with the kind of development that had been the norm in the industry for the past 5 years: a $50+ million budget, a 3 to 5 year timeline, and a development staff of 50 to 75 people.
    One of Paizo's strengths is that they work very efficiently, and spend money when and where it counts the most. So Lisa took one look at that plan and challenged me to think outside the box. "Rather than telling me how to do it the way everyone else is doing it," she said, "tell me how to do it for the smallest budget possible while still achieving our goals." Those goals are to produce a game with the same high-quality standards for design, art, storytelling, and community involvement that Paizo has instilled into their Pathfinder products.
    Since I live for challenges like that, I spent weeks re-engineering the plan, making it leaner and more efficient, and thus making it take less and less time, and cost less and less money. In the end, we arrived at what I consider to be a revolutionary approach, which I'm going to share with you today."

    From GW blog dec. 6, 2011

  • KalmporosKalmporos Member UncommonPosts: 293
    User836 said:

    "When I first approached Lisa about a Pathfinder MMO, I presented a plan roughly on par with the kind of development that had been the norm in the industry for the past 5 years: a $50+ million budget, a 3 to 5 year timeline, and a development staff of 50 to 75 people.
    One of Paizo's strengths is that they work very efficiently, and spend money when and where it counts the most. So Lisa took one look at that plan and challenged me to think outside the box. "Rather than telling me how to do it the way everyone else is doing it," she said, "tell me how to do it for the smallest budget possible while still achieving our goals." Those goals are to produce a game with the same high-quality standards for design, art, storytelling, and community involvement that Paizo has instilled into their Pathfinder products.
    Since I live for challenges like that, I spent weeks re-engineering the plan, making it leaner and more efficient, and thus making it take less and less time, and cost less and less money. In the end, we arrived at what I consider to be a revolutionary approach, which I'm going to share with you today."

    From GW blog dec. 6, 2011

    Dancey did his magic again!
  • KopogeroKopogero Member UncommonPosts: 1,685
    edited September 2015
    LOL, how can someone be shut down that was never "launched" / "released"

    image

  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    edited September 2015
    Kopogero said:
    LOL, how can someone be shut down that was never "launched" / "released"
    Because according to Dancey, the game was not in alpha/beta and they were charging box+sub+cash shop for it, despite the fact that the game was half finished at best. (Nevermind that it had practically nothing to do with the IP on which it was based.)
  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939
    Burntvet said:
    Kopogero said:
    LOL, how can someone be shut down that was never "launched" / "released"
    Because according to Dancey, the game was not in alpha/beta and they were charging box+sub+cash shop for it, despite the fact that the game was half finished at best. (Nevermind that it had practically nothing to do with the IP on which it was based.)
    Which makes this sad how developers can steal money and it seems get away with it. In the real world if we would do this we would be locked up for theft.
    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

    Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event


    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/

    Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,303
    One of the number one rules is to add a %% to your predicted cost because it never costs what you predict it will.Sure you can have  a well laid out plan to get ideas done exactly on time and within budget but guess what that means.

    That means your community is NOT really involved because you cannot afford time to listen and make changes or improve on ideas.If at any time you stray outside the planned game design,you add time and cost.

    I feel what it came down to was Ryan had a decent idea of how to make a decent game but just accepted a nickle and dime idea to give himself a job.Stream lining game design NEVER works,i can spot corner cutting in seconds of entering a game.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • BluddwolfBluddwolf Member UncommonPosts: 355
    Brenics said:
    Burntvet said:
    Kopogero said:
    LOL, how can someone be shut down that was never "launched" / "released"
    Because according to Dancey, the game was not in alpha/beta and they were charging box+sub+cash shop for it, despite the fact that the game was half finished at best. (Nevermind that it had practically nothing to do with the IP on which it was based.)
    Which makes this sad how developers can steal money and it seems get away with it. In the real world if we would do this we would be locked up for theft.
    The developer(s), whether you consider that Goblin Works, Ryan Dancey, Paizo, Lisa Stevens or all of them collectively, have not "gotten away with it".  

    They have all all paid a price to their credibility in the PC gaming market, or will if they try to dip back in with a new product (regardless of genre).  

    PFO might actually become the poster child for what not to do, and it may severely hurt future kick starters.  

    Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....

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