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RMT are too profitable to destroy for MMO companies

scorpex-xscorpex-x Member RarePosts: 1,030
edited August 2015 in The Pub at MMORPG.COM
I've seen this on a few mmo titles now, companies using gold/gil sellers to boost profits and increase registered account numbers.  They pretend to hate them, ban them very lazily but in reality they love them as a valued resource.

FFXIV bans RealMoneyTraders, but they do it amazingly slowly and let them shout for hours/days so that they make a profit first.  As such the RMT they ban will buy the game again, make new registered accounts and will do this forever.  As long as they are left alone long enough to make a profit to offset the cost of buying the game they are happy and will repeat this over and over and over again.  Square gets inflated registered accounts and box sales, the rmt sell their gold.

Lots of F2P games do the same thing, they only allow RMT to flourish if they spend money though.  You will see RMT purchasing XP boosters or other things so the publishers know they are spending money and they will in return give them enough time to turn a profit..before banning them to repeat the process.

As such RMT are a profitable resource that f2p and p2p titles take advantage of, the days of cracking down on RMT are gone.

Comments

  • DaikuruDaikuru Member RarePosts: 797
    wtf is RMT?
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

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  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    edited August 2015
    Real Money Transaction. He's talking specifically about the gold sellers and bots that seem to go completely unchecked in some games. 

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,330
    Can't say you are wrong, plausible but tough to prove even if true. Besides everyone says RMT firms use stolen credit cards and accounts so if so I can't see companies getting in bed with these folks.

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  • Rommie10-284Rommie10-284 Member UncommonPosts: 265
    I'm on a smaller FF14 server, and I do see the Gil spammers go away for a short time after some updates.  They return shortly thereafter, but at least I've seen tangible proof SE does *something* about them.  Still - I can't say it's anything more than a token effort and dispute the OP's point about the games really doing something about RMT.  Between actual income from them, threats if they get shut down, and the poisoned trail they've laid to in-game item selling, there's not much hope for more effort against the spammers anytime soon.

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  • YanocchiYanocchi Member UncommonPosts: 670
    In some games it even feels like companies and RMT traders are in league with each other. After reading an article about how Chinese prisoners were forced to play WoW to make gold, I would believe pretty wild scenarios and conspiracy theories on the subject. :dizzy: I wouldn't be surprised if corrupt officials in some countries are involved in RMT trade and have the capability to threaten MMO companies or certain key employees to leave goldsellers alone. Who knows, maybe game companies leave goldsellers alone because they are associated with mobs who can bring about costly DDOS attacks.
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  • XiaokiXiaoki Member RarePosts: 3,358
    There are ways to permanently rid guild sellers from an MMO but the players are against such measures.

    When Skyforge released there were gold sellers the first day then everyone responded "hey, stupid, there's no trading in this game at all", they went away and never returned.

    Some MMOs have restricted pricing for auctions. As in, you don't set the auction price the game does.

    But the players don't want to be restricted on trading or auctions but they also don't want gold sellers, but any popular MMO with unrestricted trading will have gold sellers.

    Just proves that security and freedom are opposites.
  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    I hate to tell you OP that you are wrong.  Especially with FFXIV.  I was in an FC where several officers bought gold to buy a house.  Guess what within 2 days they were all ban, all 6 of them.  So I dont know why you are picking on FFXIV really on this other than their Spam is bad, in the end your comment is debunked because people do get ban from FFXIV.  If these people did not then SE would be fine with the RMT.  Problem is they are not and guess what RMT is here to stay, it was in MMOs back in 1998 with UO.  
  • KopogeroKopogero Member UncommonPosts: 1,685
    edited August 2015

    RMT is not the problem, it's the double standard implemented by companies that I dislike hardcore. They restrict/prevent players from SELLING their items/characters etc.. in a safe environment for $, yet they allow others to do it and PROFIT. RMT can never be prevented because federal law is inefficient in virtual trading. They can sell the items/gold from sites people can easily find on google.

    Bottom line, I like to see more freedom to players for equal rights to buy and sell what they want for $. Sure, this can be considered pay to win, but hey this is also where you have to decide if you want to win more IRL or in the game when deciding to sell your valuables yourself.

    So, RMT is not the issue, the double standard is. Not to mention the amount of scams players are exposed when dealing with RMT'ers.

    image

  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    I dont know why people keep trying to come up with an answer to this.  THEY WILL NEVER GET RID OF RMT unless there is no way to trade anything in game then what is the dam point play a single player game.  Stop trying to come up with a solution to something that has NO solution.  Its like trying to stop Humans from being Human.  IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.  
  • nbtscannbtscan Member UncommonPosts: 862
    RMT will always be present in games that are thriving and have a demand for their service.  Until developers sell gold directly to players (which I think is a terrible idea in a subscription game, much less any game) this grey market will always exist.  

    The RMT quite frequently use stolen payment information so it's no real big loss to them if their accounts get banned.  They'll just buy another copy of the game and make another account.  Yes, game devs do make money from this (until the cards are discovered and frozen with the funds reversed) but I'm sure they make a legitimate effort to ban these people.
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,211
    Kyleran said:
    Can't say you are wrong, plausible but tough to prove even if true. Besides everyone says RMT firms use stolen credit cards and accounts so if so I can't see companies getting in bed with these folks.

    Mob started out owning Vegas....regular business came in legitimized their business and some of the more criminal sides faded.
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 2,128
    danwest58 said:
    I dont know why people keep trying to come up with an answer to this.  THEY WILL NEVER GET RID OF RMT unless there is no way to trade anything in game then what is the dam point play a single player game.  Stop trying to come up with a solution to something that has NO solution.  Its like trying to stop Humans from being Human.  IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.  
    As if nowadays online game allow you to freely trade. Most item get lock and the gold just work as cashshop bait.
    No way to trade = play singleplayer game ? Ready ?
    I see many no trade MMO and they are more MMO than most of AAA MMO with gold seller.
  • KazuhiroKazuhiro Member UncommonPosts: 582
    Xiaoki said:
    There are ways to permanently rid guild sellers from an MMO but the players are against such measures.

    When Skyforge released there were gold sellers the first day then everyone responded "hey, stupid, there's no trading in this game at all", they went away and never returned.

    Some MMOs have restricted pricing for auctions. As in, you don't set the auction price the game does.

    But the players don't want to be restricted on trading or auctions but they also don't want gold sellers, but any popular MMO with unrestricted trading will have gold sellers.

    Just proves that security and freedom are opposites.
    Actually the gold sellers were still spamming in skyforge when I left it, they had simply moved on from selling gold outright, to offering to farm it on your account, or to powerlevel stuff.

    Where there is a buck to be made off of idiots, someone will be there to exploit it.

    To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.

  • KonfessKonfess Member RarePosts: 1,667
    scorpex-x said:
    [edit for space]

    As such RMT are a profitable resource that f2p and p2p titles take advantage of, the days of cracking down on RMT are gone.

    I want you to go to the mall this weekend, and see if you can spot the gold buyers.  Then walk up to them and accuse them of buying gold and supporting the RMT trade.  That’s what it's like to stop RMT.  You see there is no data of the RMT in game.  


    You say you can spot a bot?  What you can spot is someone who can’t or won’t interact with you.  There are a large number of people in this country and around the globe, whose play style is often mistaken for bots.


    You know what play style differentiates an RMT guild from a top tier Raiding guild?  Absolutely none.  How does a RMT gold transfer differentiate from any other transaction in the economy?  It doesn’t.


    You have in game data, and only in game data.  Which can’t identify RMT or bots, from valid players.  So every time a ban comes down, the company has to live with the consequences.  


    Those people who are involved in RMT and botting, they aren’t dead, in jail, or prevented from coming back.  So they do.  Those people who were innocent, they usually don’t come back.  Some even post to forums about how poorly they were treated.  The bots never post about getting caught.


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    Pardon any spelling errors
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    Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
    Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
    It costs money to play.  Therefore P2W.

  • KonfessKonfess Member RarePosts: 1,667

    Horusra said:
    Kyleran said:
    Can't say you are wrong, plausible but tough to prove even if true. Besides everyone says RMT firms use stolen credit cards and accounts so if so I can't see companies getting in bed with these folks.

    Mob started out owning Vegas....regular business came in legitimized their business and some of the more criminal sides faded.
    Nope.  The names and faces may have changed.  But the game continues, uninterrupted.

    Pardon any spelling errors
    Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
    Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
    Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
    Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
    It costs money to play.  Therefore P2W.

  • KonfessKonfess Member RarePosts: 1,667

    Kopogero said:

    RMT is not the problem, it's the double standard implemented by companies that I dislike hardcore. They restrict/prevent players from SELLING their items/characters etc.. in a safe environment for $, yet they allow others to do it and PROFIT. RMT can never be prevented because federal law is inefficient in virtual trading. They can sell the items/gold from sites people can easily find on google.

    Bottom line, I like to see more freedom to players for equal rights to buy and sell what they want for $. Sure, this can be considered pay to win, but hey this is also where you have to decide if you want to win more IRL or in the game when deciding to sell your valuables yourself.

    So, RMT is not the issue, the double standard is. Not to mention the amount of scams players are exposed when dealing with RMT'ers.

    I first heard of systems like your’s back in 2006.  One attempt at it actually made it to market.  Remember D3?  The others are probably still in play testing some where, or given up on out of fear.

    Pardon any spelling errors
    Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
    Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
    Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
    Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
    It costs money to play.  Therefore P2W.

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    scorpex-x said:
    I've seen this on a few mmo titles now, companies using gold/gil sellers to boost profits and increase registered account numbers.  They pretend to hate them, ban them very lazily but in reality they love them as a valued resource.

    FFXIV bans RealMoneyTraders, but they do it amazingly slowly and let them shout for hours/days so that they make a profit first.  As such the RMT they ban will buy the game again, make new registered accounts and will do this forever.  As long as they are left alone long enough to make a profit to offset the cost of buying the game they are happy and will repeat this over and over and over again.  Square gets inflated registered accounts and box sales, the rmt sell their gold.

    Lots of F2P games do the same thing, they only allow RMT to flourish if they spend money though.  You will see RMT purchasing XP boosters or other things so the publishers know they are spending money and they will in return give them enough time to turn a profit..before banning them to repeat the process.

    As such RMT are a profitable resource that f2p and p2p titles take advantage of, the days of cracking down on RMT are gone.

    That's an awfully nice tinfoil hat you got.

    There are a lot of fantastic things about being a game developer, but player conspiracies have to be one of the best. The stuff players come up with is hilarious.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • Beatnik59Beatnik59 Member UncommonPosts: 2,413
    I used to hate the gold farmers.  I still do.  But in a decade of MMORPGs, I have to say the cure for gold farmers is worse than the disease.

    All the "anti farm" mechanics that have been created seem to make the games far less realistic and satisfying than if they just let the gold sellers go.

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  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,656
    I've said from day 1 that the problem with RMT lies within the buyer.....I don't think the companies care about the gold sellers that much, especially if they are a paying customer......The gold buyers have ruined so many MMOs I cant even count.
  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,220
    Kyleran said:
    Can't say you are wrong, plausible but tough to prove even if true. Besides everyone says RMT firms use stolen credit cards and accounts so if so I can't see companies getting in bed with these folks.
    You are correct. It is common for RMT companies to use stolen credit cards, stolen accounts, etc.  They do not make any money for the gaming company, they COST the gaming company huge amounts of time, money, and resources. 
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