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Are you satisfied with your current MMO?

13

Comments

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    Between ESO which I find to be the best fit for my taste, SWTOR ( it's Star wars), and some Gw2 (which is growing stale) I get plenty of enjoyment, although..GW2.. I may give up on that. The other two offer enough to make up for the loss in a third option.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Vardahoth said:
    Like you, Yasha completely misses the point for the 0 (24% and highest% as of now) voters.

    We have said exactly what is wrong with the current state of mmorpg's and we have said exactly what we want out of mmorpg's and what would make it right. The industry keeps producing more evolved of the stuff we do not want and continues to ignore us while making things worse and worse. So we keep trying to tell the devs here about it. Everything we used to love in our MMORPG's has been stripped away from us leaving us nothing in its place.

    Now we have this user (Yasha) coming and telling us we are trolling and having nothing but doom and gloom posts. Yeah I would justify clueless as being the right response.

    @Yasha

    Watch the video in my sig (1st link), and become un-clueless. BTW the user of that video is not an old man. He's only 18 yrs old, and i was surprised to see someone so young able to recognize the changes I have said over and over again.
    Respond to what's actually being said. Don't discuss the topic with imaginary opponents.

    YOU said: "Yasha completely misses the point for the 0 voters."
    YASHA said: "There seems to be a group of people on these forums that basically hate mmos"?
    RESULT: Yasha didn't miss those 0-voters, and in fact explicitly mentioned them.

    YASHA said: "but they try to convince themselves and anyone who will listen that the problem is with the young people, all games now are crap, etc, etc."
    YOU said: "We have said exactly what is wrong with the current state of mmorpg's..."
    RESULT: You're behaving exactly like Yasha said.

    YOU said: "The industry keeps producing more evolved of the stuff we do not want and continues to ignore us while making things worse and worse." (aka doom and gloom)
    YOU said: "Now we have this user (Yasha) coming and telling us we are trolling and having nothing but doom and gloom posts."
    RESULT: You've behaving exactly like Yasha said.

    CONCLUSION: Zero evidence of Yasha being clueless, and lots of evidence proving exactly what she/he said.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Member RarePosts: 1,660
    YashaX said:
    Torval said:
    I play a lot of mmos and don't have enough time to play the games I like. LotRO, GW2, ESO and my others. Loving them.
    Same here, so many good games, so little time....
    So conflicting, even worse if you enjoy play multiple classes. I have yet to really dive into LOTRO or try ESO.
    MMORPGs aren't easy, You're just too PRO!
  • lttexxanlttexxan Member UncommonPosts: 429
    Bored...bored...bored...at the moment.

    It's better to lurk in forums and be thought a fool...than to endlessly "Quote" and remove all doubts.

  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Member RarePosts: 1,660
    Vardahoth said:
    Axehilt said:
    Clueless.
    Exactly what part of Yasha's post was clueless?  Everything seemed quite accurate.
    Like you, Yasha completely misses the point for the 0 (24% and highest% as of now) voters.

    We have said exactly what is wrong with the current state of mmorpg's and we have said exactly what we want out of mmorpg's and what would make it right. The industry keeps producing more evolved of the stuff we do not want and continues to ignore us while making things worse and worse. So we keep trying to tell the devs here about it. Everything we used to love in our MMORPG's has been stripped away from us leaving us nothing in its place.

    Now we have this user (Yasha) coming and telling us we are trolling and having nothing but doom and gloom posts. Yeah I would justify clueless as being the right response.

    @Yasha

    Watch the video in my sig (1st link), and become un-clueless. BTW the user of that video is not an old man. He's only 18 yrs old, and i was surprised to see someone so young able to recognize the changes I have said over and over again.
    I would hope that some kids will grow up to appreciate the classics. But it doesn't make either one of them clueless.

    You may enjoy Led Zepplin, but I fucking don't. I do recognized and appreciate what they have done, very much. Jimmy Page is brilliant.

    Do I have to have a clue what made Zelda or Final Fantasy so great? Do you have to like them? Fuck no!
    MMORPGs aren't easy, You're just too PRO!
  • MadimorgaMadimorga Member UncommonPosts: 1,920
    As much as I rail against free to play and as terrible as I heard Allods was, Skyforge is fun for me at the moment.  I spent $18 and might spend another $15 or $30 down the road but no one else's wallet affects me so I don't care what other people spend. I am soloing, though, so it's not really an MMO the way I'm playing it.

    Sadly I doubt it will hold my interest longer than another month or two, while a farming, trade running, housing game like AA could have kept me around for years, if only they'd done some things differently and reined in the greed. The lost potential on that one makes me sad.

    image

    I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

    ~Albert Einstein

  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 4,199
    Axehilt said:
    Illius said:
    I voted "Not playing anything and waiting on the next thing."

    But I'm not waiting for the next thing. I'm hoping for a complete overhaul that I don't expect to ever see. Mostly because gamers can't seem to pull their heads out of their arses. They aren't happy, but want more of the same just do it so it makes them happy again. They're crack babies.

    Sorry to be so blunt.
    pretty much what @Amaranthar said.  Not playing any MMO's and it doesn't look like that will change any time soon.  Enjoying some multiplayer co-op with a buddy or 2 is about as multiplayer as my gaming gets nowadays.
    How do you two reconcile this opinion with the objective evidence that here on MMORPG.com (with its unhappy vocal minority) 51% of the poll respondents have voted Satisfied or higher?

    Just ignore it and pretend it isn't happening?

    While 51% are satisfied, it does leave 49% (or whatever it is now) unsatisfied. And last I looked there were 24% who weren't playing anything at present.
    So while the "vocal" may be a minority, the "unhappy" don't appear to be a minority after all.

    Once upon a time....

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504

    While 51% are satisfied, it does leave 49% (or whatever it is now) unsatisfied. And last I looked there were 24% who weren't playing anything at present.
    So while the "vocal" may be a minority, the "unhappy" don't appear to be a minority after all.
    All depends on how you slice it.
    • In a poll here in the vocal minority refuge, unhappy players still manage to be outnumbered (52% currently) by satisfied players.
    • In a poll in a MMORPG's forum, you would expect satisfied players to be noticeably higher. (But still not great, because as we know general forums each have their own angry vocal minority.)
    • In a poll inside a MMORPG, we'd expect satisfied players to be much higher. (Because otherwise they wouldn't be there.) Though this is essentially the polar opposite of the poll here.
    • By popularity, WOW by itself (data), even after declining, has as many players as the entire MMORPG industry in ~2003 (data with Subs-1 being the major games and Subs-2 being the next biggest tier.)  When you add in ESO, GW2, and all the other modern MMORPGs, the genre is still quite a bit bigger than the early days. So that's a lot more raw "satisfied" votes ("votes" meaning gamers voting with their wallet.)
    • By popularity, MMORPGs have never been popular as the entire RPG genre only makes up about 10% of game sales. So it's unlikely that at any point in MMORPG history would they have satisfied the general gaming population. Though of course this slice is probably the most flawed as these weren't players in the target market of MMORPGs in the first place.


    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,852
    I have a variable enjoy meter.
    If i play any game too much i get real bored,if i play in moderation then usually remains enjoyable.


    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • CoatedCoated Member UncommonPosts: 485
    I'm trying all the games that go FTP. Not satisfied with any of them, although, some were interesting and there were a few that kept me around longer than I anticipated.

    They all run into the same problem though. Crafting is non existent. No player housing and nothing to really do other than dungeon and quest crawling. Final Fantasy 14 and Archeage came close, but one was not inventive enough and the other was poorly executed.
  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Member RarePosts: 1,660
    Axehilt said:

    While 51% are satisfied, it does leave 49% (or whatever it is now) unsatisfied. And last I looked there were 24% who weren't playing anything at present.
    So while the "vocal" may be a minority, the "unhappy" don't appear to be a minority after all.
    All depends on how you slice it.
    • In a poll here in the vocal minority refuge, unhappy players still manage to be outnumbered (52% currently) by satisfied players.
    • In a poll in a MMORPG's forum, you would expect satisfied players to be noticeably higher. (But still not great, because as we know general forums each have their own angry vocal minority.)
    • In a poll inside a MMORPG, we'd expect satisfied players to be much higher. (Because otherwise they wouldn't be there.) Though this is essentially the polar opposite of the poll here.
    • By popularity, WOW by itself (data), even after declining, has as many players as the entire MMORPG industry in ~2003 (data with Subs-1 being the major games and Subs-2 being the next biggest tier.)  When you add in ESO, GW2, and all the other modern MMORPGs, the genre is still quite a bit bigger than the early days. So that's a lot more raw "satisfied" votes ("votes" meaning gamers voting with their wallet.)
    • By popularity, MMORPGs have never been popular as the entire RPG genre only makes up about 10% of game sales. So it's unlikely that at any point in MMORPG history would they have satisfied the general gaming population. Though of course this slice is probably the most flawed as these weren't players in the target market of MMORPGs in the first place.


    Seriously, I made back in 2011! I got graphs!

    httpiimgurcomc4jmz7Yjpg1

    MMORPGs aren't easy, You're just too PRO!
  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Member RarePosts: 1,660
    Madimorga said:
    As much as I rail against free to play and as terrible as I heard Allods was, Skyforge is fun for me at the moment.  I spent $18 and might spend another $15 or $30 down the road but no one else's wallet affects me so I don't care what other people spend. I am soloing, though, so it's not really an MMO the way I'm playing it.

    Sadly I doubt it will hold my interest longer than another month or two, while a farming, trade running, housing game like AA could have kept me around for years, if only they'd done some things differently and reined in the greed. The lost potential on that one makes me sad.
    I really liked Allods, but paywall up the ass!
    MMORPGs aren't easy, You're just too PRO!
  • Paradigm68Paradigm68 Member UncommonPosts: 890
    My problem is I've been playing MMO's since they were MUDs (MUSH MOO, whatever) and I was kind of lead along this path that MMO's were supposed to be world simulators. Each iteration increasing the fidelity and immersion of the world being simulated. But what happened was at some point the MMO industry as a whole gave up on the idea of MMO's as world simulators and settled on MMO's being just regular sorts of expanded single player video games. So there are MMO games I play and have some little fun in, but I'll never be satisfied.
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 4,199
    Axehilt said:

    While 51% are satisfied, it does leave 49% (or whatever it is now) unsatisfied. And last I looked there were 24% who weren't playing anything at present.
    So while the "vocal" may be a minority, the "unhappy" don't appear to be a minority after all.
    All depends on how you slice it.
    • In a poll here in the vocal minority refuge, unhappy players still manage to be outnumbered (52% currently) by satisfied players.
    • In a poll in a MMORPG's forum, you would expect satisfied players to be noticeably higher. (But still not great, because as we know general forums each have their own angry vocal minority.)
    • In a poll inside a MMORPG, we'd expect satisfied players to be much higher. (Because otherwise they wouldn't be there.) Though this is essentially the polar opposite of the poll here.
    • By popularity, WOW by itself (data), even after declining, has as many players as the entire MMORPG industry in ~2003 (data with Subs-1 being the major games and Subs-2 being the next biggest tier.)  When you add in ESO, GW2, and all the other modern MMORPGs, the genre is still quite a bit bigger than the early days. So that's a lot more raw "satisfied" votes ("votes" meaning gamers voting with their wallet.)
    • By popularity, MMORPGs have never been popular as the entire RPG genre only makes up about 10% of game sales. So it's unlikely that at any point in MMORPG history would they have satisfied the general gaming population. Though of course this slice is probably the most flawed as these weren't players in the target market of MMORPGs in the first place.


    This is really deceiving. Let me show you how...
    • "In a poll here in the vocal minority refuge, unhappy players still manage to be outnumbered (52% currently) by satisfied players."
    Any business that has half it's customers unhappy is in trouble and doomed. But this is beyond a single business, it's an entire industry. That's what saves it at the present time. When things start to really change, there will be new MMO's that quickly jump to the top end and leave the present MMO's in big trouble.

    • "In a poll in a MMORPG's forum, you would expect satisfied players to be noticeably higher. (But still not great, because as we know general forums each have their own angry vocal minority.)"
    Again, this is not a "vocal minority". This is half the poll.

    • "In a poll inside a MMORPG, we'd expect satisfied players to be much higher. (Because otherwise they wouldn't be there.) Though this is essentially the polar opposite of the poll here."
    That's a reasonable assumption. However, what we find is a heavy lean towards FtP with whales providing the bulk of the revenues. This is a big clue to the satisfaction levels of gamers as a whole. And it's not simply because "it's free" because WoW still leads the pack and has a sub (still). There's no doubt that WoW is the class of the genre, where there is doubt is that there's no quality competition to draw gamers away.

    • "By popularity, WOW by itself (data), even after declining, has as many players as the entire MMORPG industry in ~2003 (data with Subs-1 being the major games and Subs-2 being the next biggest tier.)  When you add in ESO, GW2, and all the other modern MMORPGs, the genre is still quite a bit bigger than the early days. So that's a lot more raw "satisfied" votes ("votes" meaning gamers voting with their wallet.)"
    Of course the genre is bigger, those early days most gamers didn't even know about MMO's. Most WoW players didn't know about MMO's and that's been proven. This was a new thing, MMO's. It grew over the years simply because more people found out about them, and the idea of playing in a massive world with so many other players is a very socially enticing thing.
    But that doesn't mean gamers are still happy. When you look at WoW, when new MMO's came out after WoW's first few years the entire population of players would go way down (in log in terms) while they checked out the new games. And after the new games failed to be anywhere as good as WoW in the same game play those gamers went back to playing WoW (in general).
    This does NOT MEAN they were (still) satisfied with WoW. After all, they went to check out the other games. 

    • (Your final point)
    I don't see where this has anything to do with the topic, but I think you are right about it. Not everyone wants to play RPG's. And some of those don't want to play with other gamers. This goes back to the early days of online gaming. Cheaters, jerks, there's reasons why some people don't want to play with strangers. That still leaves many who do, and even find it very interesting to get into the large social arena. But again, this doesn't have anything to do with this topic about MMO gamers and their satisfaction level.


    Once upon a time....

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    This is really deceiving. Let me show you how...
    • "In a poll here in the vocal minority refuge, unhappy players still manage to be outnumbered (52% currently) by satisfied players."
    Any business that has half it's customers unhappy is in trouble and doomed. But this is beyond a single business, it's an entire industry. That's what saves it at the present time. When things start to really change, there will be new MMO's that quickly jump to the top end and leave the present MMO's in big trouble.

    • "In a poll in a MMORPG's forum, you would expect satisfied players to be noticeably higher. (But still not great, because as we know general forums each have their own angry vocal minority.)"
    Again, this is not a "vocal minority". This is half the poll.

    • "In a poll inside a MMORPG, we'd expect satisfied players to be much higher. (Because otherwise they wouldn't be there.) Though this is essentially the polar opposite of the poll here."
    That's a reasonable assumption. However, what we find is a heavy lean towards FtP with whales providing the bulk of the revenues. This is a big clue to the satisfaction levels of gamers as a whole. And it's not simply because "it's free" because WoW still leads the pack and has a sub (still). There's no doubt that WoW is the class of the genre, where there is doubt is that there's no quality competition to draw gamers away.

    • "By popularity, WOW by itself (data), even after declining, has as many players as the entire MMORPG industry in ~2003 (data with Subs-1 being the major games and Subs-2 being the next biggest tier.)  When you add in ESO, GW2, and all the other modern MMORPGs, the genre is still quite a bit bigger than the early days. So that's a lot more raw "satisfied" votes ("votes" meaning gamers voting with their wallet.)"
    Of course the genre is bigger, those early days most gamers didn't even know about MMO's. Most WoW players didn't know about MMO's and that's been proven. This was a new thing, MMO's. It grew over the years simply because more people found out about them, and the idea of playing in a massive world with so many other players is a very socially enticing thing.
    But that doesn't mean gamers are still happy. When you look at WoW, when new MMO's came out after WoW's first few years the entire population of players would go way down (in log in terms) while they checked out the new games. And after the new games failed to be anywhere as good as WoW in the same game play those gamers went back to playing WoW (in general).
    This does NOT MEAN they were (still) satisfied with WoW. After all, they went to check out the other games. 

    • (Your final point)
    I don't see where this has anything to do with the topic, but I think you are right about it. Not everyone wants to play RPG's. And some of those don't want to play with other gamers. This goes back to the early days of online gaming. Cheaters, jerks, there's reasons why some people don't want to play with strangers. That still leaves many who do, and even find it very interesting to get into the large social arena. But again, this doesn't have anything to do with this topic about MMO gamers and their satisfaction level.


    1. Those players aren't the customers. We just saw how the genre is quite successful financially. The people paying? Those are the customers. Their opinions matter.
    2. Do you need a primer on how polls work?  First, if you go to a rich neighborhood with a salary poll, obviously the results are going to be skewed.  Second, game forums aren't all players; they're a tiny fraction of some of the highest engaged and most opinionated players. Their opinions often do not reflect the common opinion of players playing the game, and myself I've seen this objectively proven several times (angry forum players say something is a huge problem; the data says they're objectively wrong.)
    3. Stating that players playing a game logically like the game (or they wouldn't play) doesn't really provide us many clues beyond the obvious.
    4. Of course it means they were satisfied with WOW. If it didn't satisfy them, they wouldn't pay money for it. The genre is bigger in part because it's a lot better at satisfying players than the grindy games of the past. Retention plays a huge role in player count, and retention essentially measures satisfaction (it measures whether players keep coming back day after day.)
    5. The final data set was meant to show that RPGs are only 9.5% of game sales, and MMORPGs are only a subset of RPGs, so if you asked any random gamer off the street whether they were satisfied with MMORPGs you'd get maybe 6-7% of them saying they were satisfied.  It was meant to drive home the overall point made by all 5 data sets; each is somewhat flawed in its own way, but the poll here on MMORPG.com (known to be a haven of MMORPG-malcontents) is a bit more flawed than normal (just as polling players in-game would be flawed in a similar but opposite way.)

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • CzelawCzelaw Member UncommonPosts: 173
    edited September 2015
    Put 4 playing FFXIV and I'm really lovin it.

    image
  • DeivosDeivos Member EpicPosts: 3,692
    https://www.superdataresearch.com/market-data/mmo-market/

    "Overall, the total MMO category is on track to generate $11 billion in annual revenues by the end of this year, representing roughly 21% of the worldwide digital games market."

    http://www.newzoo.com/insights/pcmmo-gaming-revenues-total-24-4bn-2014/

    "By 2017 the PC/MMO online games market will reach $30.7 billion, accounting for 31% of total global games market revenues."

    "Asia Pacific shows by far the largest overall revenues in 2014 with $14.19 billion, accounting for 58% of the total."

    http://www.newzoo.com/trend-reports/mmo-trend-report/

    Lets not skew things based off one statistic that doesn't even mention the market share of MMOs.

    "The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay

    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin

  • VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472
    edited September 2015
    Axehilt said:
    Vardahoth said:
    Like you, Yasha completely misses the point for the 0 (24% and highest% as of now) voters.

    We have said exactly what is wrong with the current state of mmorpg's and we have said exactly what we want out of mmorpg's and what would make it right. The industry keeps producing more evolved of the stuff we do not want and continues to ignore us while making things worse and worse. So we keep trying to tell the devs here about it. Everything we used to love in our MMORPG's has been stripped away from us leaving us nothing in its place.

    Now we have this user (Yasha) coming and telling us we are trolling and having nothing but doom and gloom posts. Yeah I would justify clueless as being the right response.

    @Yasha

    Watch the video in my sig (1st link), and become un-clueless. BTW the user of that video is not an old man. He's only 18 yrs old, and i was surprised to see someone so young able to recognize the changes I have said over and over again.
    Respond to what's actually being said. Don't discuss the topic with imaginary opponents.

    YOU said: "Yasha completely misses the point for the 0 voters."
    YASHA said: "There seems to be a group of people on these forums that basically hate mmos"?
    RESULT: Yasha didn't miss those 0-voters, and in fact explicitly mentioned them.

    YASHA said: "but they try to convince themselves and anyone who will listen that the problem is with the young people, all games now are crap, etc, etc."
    YOU said: "We have said exactly what is wrong with the current state of mmorpg's..."
    RESULT: You're behaving exactly like Yasha said.

    YOU said: "The industry keeps producing more evolved of the stuff we do not want and continues to ignore us while making things worse and worse." (aka doom and gloom)
    YOU said: "Now we have this user (Yasha) coming and telling us we are trolling and having nothing but doom and gloom posts."
    RESULT: You've behaving exactly like Yasha said.

    CONCLUSION: Zero evidence of Yasha being clueless, and lots of evidence proving exactly what she/he said.
    Result 1:
    • Your argument basically states oranges are fruit, and apples are fruit. Therefor apples are oranges.
    • I said he missed the POINT of the 0 voters. You said he says there are a group of people here that hate all mmorpg games. Therefor he didn't miss those 0 voters.
    • Some of these 0 voters actually liked the older MMORPG games and want to play those types again. That was the point. They don't hate the older type of MMORPG games, therefor they do not "hate all MMORPG games." Instead of saying "oh well they hate all mmorpg so we shouldn't listen to them", how about asking WHY THEY HATE THE CURRENT (NOT ALL) MMORPGs.

    result 2:
    • This argument basically says "my child is immature, what?!?! you don't like sushi because it has raw fish? You are immature and behaving like my child!".
    • I have already stated the young person in that video I posted is someone who I AGREE WITH. So how am I behaving in a way where I am saying "the problem is with young people?" I have explicitly said in bullet points why i don't like games on the first link in my sig. And not one of those points mentions anything about the young generation.

    result 3:
    • With this argument you strip out what I have said out of context.
    • I said "We have said exactly what is wrong with the current state of mmorpg's and we have said exactly what we want out of mmorpg's and what would make it right."
    • Therefor not all of what I have said is doom and gloom. So I am not behaving axactly as Yasha said.

    CONCLUSION: Yasha is still clueless. Read the full post of what the person says before you chop it up and change it to embarrass yourself.

    @ Yasha, have you thought about the reason that 24% is not higher is because people have just simply given up and do not even bother with the forums anymore? I can name about 100 gamers I used to play with that don't touch games anymore because of their current state, and don't bother with forums either. If a game did come out to our liking, I'm sure they would get back into it. But after 10 YEARS of this WoWclone crap, people have simply stopped visiting all together. How long do you expect us to sit around and wait... oh that's right... you don't. Just "shut up and play or don't play". The "kids these days" argument is such a poor fallacy for what the real issue is.

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

  • AethaerynAethaeryn Member RarePosts: 3,104
    I'm currently hopping around on old MMOs trying to find something again.  I would still be playing SWTOR for a bit but I keep getting nasty lag spikes that I can't seem to fix.

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Vardahoth said:
    Result 1:
    • Your argument basically states oranges are fruit, and apples are fruit. Therefor apples are oranges.
    • I said he missed the POINT of the 0 voters. You said he says there are a group of people here that hate all mmorpg games. Therefor he didn't miss those 0 voters.
    • Some of these 0 voters actually liked the older MMORPG games and want to play those types again. That was the point. They don't hate the older type of MMORPG games, therefor they do not "hate all MMORPG games." Instead of saying "oh well they hate all mmorpg so we shouldn't listen to them", how about asking WHY THEY HATE THE CURRENT (NOT ALL) MMORPGs.

    result 2:
    • This argument basically says "my child is immature, what?!?! you don't like sushi because it has raw fish? You are immature and behaving like my child!".
    • I have already stated the young person in that video I posted is someone who I AGREE WITH. So how am I behaving in a way where I am saying "the problem is with young people?" I have explicitly said in bullet points why i don't like games on the first link in my sig. And not one of those points mentions anything about the young generation.

    result 3:
    • With this argument you strip out what I have said out of context.
    • I said "We have said exactly what is wrong with the current state of mmorpg's and we have said exactly what we want out of mmorpg's and what would make it right."
    • Therefor not all of what I have said is doom and gloom. So I am not behaving axactly as Yasha said.

    CONCLUSION: Yasha is still clueless. Read the full post of what the person says before you chop it up and change it to embarrass yourself.

    Result 1:
    • No, that logic doesn't resemble what was said at all.
    • A common sense expectation based on Yasha's first quote is that people would vote 0 because they basically hate MMORPGs.
    • Also "basically hate MMORPGs" leaves enough room for these players enjoying an exception or two, while accurately describing the fact that they basically hate MMORPGs.
    Result 2:
    • No, that logic doesn't resemble what was said at all.
    • You strongly implied something was wrong with the current state of MMORPGs (reinforced by your vote) so you did precisely what Yasha predicted by implying "all games are crap".
    • Your response above seems really distracted by the "the problem is with the young people" part of Yasha's quote, but nobody said that's what you did.
    • That said, many of the MMORPG-haters do mistakenly feel it's a "new gamer" problem.
    Result 3:
    • It's still doom and gloom if someone says 'The end is nigh unless you listen to my demands.'  Turns out 'unless you listen to my demands' doesn't make a statement any less doom and gloom.
    • So your glimmer of hope isn't really changing the fact that your overall tone is doom and gloom. "The industry keeps producing more evolved of the stuff we do not want" implies you believe you speak for "we" (MMORPG gamers) and meanwhile the industry continues to make plenty of money off its actual players (the ones actually interested in MMORPGs; the actual MMORPG gamers.)
    So no, Yasha's comments in this thread have been quite accurate overall.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,826
    I'm enjoying FFXIV. There are some issues, but overall, it's a really good game. I chose option 3, but mght be closer to 4...Meh
  • VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472
    Axehilt said:
    Vardahoth said:
    Result 1:
    • Your argument basically states oranges are fruit, and apples are fruit. Therefor apples are oranges.
    • I said he missed the POINT of the 0 voters. You said he says there are a group of people here that hate all mmorpg games. Therefor he didn't miss those 0 voters.
    • Some of these 0 voters actually liked the older MMORPG games and want to play those types again. That was the point. They don't hate the older type of MMORPG games, therefor they do not "hate all MMORPG games." Instead of saying "oh well they hate all mmorpg so we shouldn't listen to them", how about asking WHY THEY HATE THE CURRENT (NOT ALL) MMORPGs.

    result 2:
    • This argument basically says "my child is immature, what?!?! you don't like sushi because it has raw fish? You are immature and behaving like my child!".
    • I have already stated the young person in that video I posted is someone who I AGREE WITH. So how am I behaving in a way where I am saying "the problem is with young people?" I have explicitly said in bullet points why i don't like games on the first link in my sig. And not one of those points mentions anything about the young generation.

    result 3:
    • With this argument you strip out what I have said out of context.
    • I said "We have said exactly what is wrong with the current state of mmorpg's and we have said exactly what we want out of mmorpg's and what would make it right."
    • Therefor not all of what I have said is doom and gloom. So I am not behaving axactly as Yasha said.

    CONCLUSION: Yasha is still clueless. Read the full post of what the person says before you chop it up and change it to embarrass yourself.

    Result 1:
    • No, that logic doesn't resemble what was said at all.
    • A common sense expectation based on Yasha's first quote is that people would vote 0 because they basically hate MMORPGs.
    • Also "basically hate MMORPGs" leaves enough room for these players enjoying an exception or two, while accurately describing the fact that they basically hate MMORPGs.
    Result 2:
    • No, that logic doesn't resemble what was said at all.
    • You strongly implied something was wrong with the current state of MMORPGs (reinforced by your vote) so you did precisely what Yasha predicted by implying "all games are crap".
    • Your response above seems really distracted by the "the problem is with the young people" part of Yasha's quote, but nobody said that's what you did.
    • That said, many of the MMORPG-haters do mistakenly feel it's a "new gamer" problem.
    Result 3:
    • It's still doom and gloom if someone says 'The end is nigh unless you listen to my demands.'  Turns out 'unless you listen to my demands' doesn't make a statement any less doom and gloom.
    • So your glimmer of hope isn't really changing the fact that your overall tone is doom and gloom. "The industry keeps producing more evolved of the stuff we do not want" implies you believe you speak for "we" (MMORPG gamers) and meanwhile the industry continues to make plenty of money off its actual players (the ones actually interested in MMORPGs; the actual MMORPG gamers.)
    So no, Yasha's comments in this thread have been quite accurate overall.

















    GOING INTO BROKEN RECORD MODE...
    Axehilt said:
    • A common sense expectation based on Yasha's first quote is that people would vote 0 because they basically hate MMORPGs.
    Axehilt said:
    Vardahoth said:
    Result 1:
    • I said he missed the POINT of the 0 voters.
    • how about asking WHY THEY HATE THE CURRENT (NOT ALL) MMORPGs.




    And here you just cancel yourself out. I can't argue someone who starts arguing with their own logic...
    Axehilt said:
    • Your response above seems really distracted by the "the problem is with the young people" part of Yasha's quote, but nobody said that's what you did.
    Axehilt said:

    YASHA said: "but they try to convince themselves and anyone who will listen that the problem is with the young people, all games now are crap, etc, etc."
    YOU said: "We have said exactly what is wrong with the current state of mmorpg's..."
    RESULT: You're behaving exactly like Yasha said.






    Read this again...
    Axehilt said:
    • You strongly implied something was wrong with the current state of MMORPGs (reinforced by your vote) so you did precisely what Yasha predicted by implying "all games are crap".
    Axehilt said:
    Vardahoth said:
    • Some of these 0 voters actually liked the older MMORPG games and want to play those types again. That was the point. They don't hate the older type of MMORPG games, therefor they do not "hate all MMORPG games." Instead of saying "oh well they hate all mmorpg so we shouldn't listen to them", how about asking WHY THEY HATE THE CURRENT (NOT ALL) MMORPGs.


    REALLY?!?!?! You are making me sound like some sort of mobster or terrorist here. Give into my demands or else... GET REAL!!!! I NEVER SAID THIS LOL
    Axehilt said:
    • It's still doom and gloom if someone says 'The end is nigh unless you listen to my demands.'  Turns out 'unless you listen to my demands' doesn't make a statement any less doom and gloom.





    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Vardahoth said:

    1. Why they hate MMORPGs isn't what was being discussed. You feel it's important, but it's not because MMORPGs simply aren't going to be made the way the vocal minority likes -- these games are being made the way the non-vocal majority likes.
    2. Again, you're fixated on the "young" part while ignoring the fact that you're doing exactly as Yasha described in hating modern MMORPGs.  The young part doesn't really matter. The fact that you're behaving as he/she described matters.
    3. Nobody accused you of hating all MMORPGs.  We've said you basically hate MMORPGs.  It's accurate. Getting angry about it won't change that.
    4. Don't look at me regarding the terrorist bit. Either you agree with us that you're doom and gloom, or you agree that the only condition under which you allow the possibility of hope is for the industry to give into your demands.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • deniterdeniter Member RarePosts: 1,367
    Look, i don't care if the silent majority don't share taste with me. That's OK. But there seems to be lots of discontent players who want something else than what the industry keeps pumping year after year. There's market for a few different kind of MMOs than those mainstream ones. I've noticed this on this very forum on similar topics like this one. Some people simply don't find an MMO game for their taste, while some people say they don't have time to play all games they would like. So obviously there are too many of type A games, and too few of type B games. Isn't it too much to ask there was even one type B game for us to play?
  • VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472
    deniter said:
    Look, i don't care if the silent majority don't share taste with me. That's OK. But there seems to be lots of discontent players who want something else than what the industry keeps pumping year after year. There's market for a few different kind of MMOs than those mainstream ones. I've noticed this on this very forum on similar topics like this one. Some people simply don't find an MMO game for their taste, while some people say they don't have time to play all games they would like. So obviously there are too many of type A games, and too few of type B games. Isn't it too much to ask there was even one type B game for us to play?
    According to Axehilt this means we hate all MMORPGs

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

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