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Need help upgrading AMD machine

Vlad0wnzVlad0wnz Member UncommonPosts: 29
AMD Athlon X4 750K CPU

MSI FM2-A75MA-E35 Motherboard

2GB Gigabyte Radeon R9 270X Graphics Card

8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 RAM

1TB Western Digital Caviar Black Hard Drive:

500W Corsair CX500 Power Supply


With this setup I get 20-35 FPS on lowest settings on games such as Dayz, H1Z1, Arma3. This is all on multiplayer.

I want to upgrade my rig so I can run these games on med-high settings with 50-60 FPS.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks :)
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Comments

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,059
    Got a budget in mind?
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,089
    Let's find out where your bottleneck is.  Try turning anti-aliasing up pretty high and then back to off entirely.  That's pretty much pure GPU load, as the CPU code doesn't even need to know if anti-aliasing is on, much less actually do anything about it.  If turning anti-aliasing up causes massive drops in your frame rate, the GPU is your bottleneck.  If tinkering with anti-aliasing doesn't make your frame rates budge in the slightest, you've got a CPU bottleneck.

    If it's a CPU bottleneck, then you're going to be stuck to a considerable degree, as there simply aren't any CPUs that are 2 1/2 times as powerful as the one you have now, apart from some very expensive ones in code that scales well to many CPU cores.  Never underestimate the ability of slow software to run poorly even on very fast hardware.
  • GrahxenGrahxen Member UncommonPosts: 19
    Vlad0wnz said:
    AMD Athlon X4 750K CPU

    MSI FM2-A75MA-E35 Motherboard

    2GB Gigabyte Radeon R9 270X Graphics Card

    8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 RAM

    1TB Western Digital Caviar Black Hard Drive:

    500W Corsair CX500 Power Supply


    With this setup I get 20-35 FPS on lowest settings on games such as Dayz, H1Z1, Arma3. This is all on multiplayer.

    I want to upgrade my rig so I can run these games on med-high settings with 50-60 FPS.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks :)


    You don't really have that bad of a system, but if you don't want to change out a new motherboard/chip, I would simply replace that AMD R9 270x With a Nvidia GTX 970. That R9 270 is just a rebadged 7870HD. Even the GTX 960 will have better performance.
  • previnprevin Member UncommonPosts: 47
    Apart from what has already been mentioned, your motherboard limits your options.  You can't use Crossfire/SLI, as you only have 1 PCI Express 2.0 x16 slot and 2 DDR3 memory slots.  There don't seem to be to many FM2 motherboards left in the market either.
  • breadm1xbreadm1x Member UncommonPosts: 374
    edited August 2015
    Dont think replacing a videocard is going to do mutch good.
    The CPU cant keep up with it.

    http://media.bestofmicro.com/W/M/440518/original/arma-fr.png

  • Vlad0wnzVlad0wnz Member UncommonPosts: 29
    300-400$
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,059
    edited August 2015
    Here's the way I see it:

    Yeah, the CPU and motherboard are older, yeah you can find faster video cards. The system you have is actually pretty well balanced out - such that upgrading any one side of it you'll end up limited by the other side.

    Upgrading the graphics - that'll get you some FPS in some of your games, but not all - some of those cases your wanting improvement on are going to be CPU bound. You could drop a Titan X in there, and still not get to what your wanting on some of the games.

    Upgrading the CPU ~could~ be done just by overclocking - that's the cheapest and easiest way around the entire thing. Maybe slap a bigger/better cooler on it, crank it for as much as you can get out of it, and see if that helps. You'd still have the same GPU, but that GPU should be able to get you to mid-level graphics on most games if there's enough CPU behind it.

    Beyond that, really, to upgrade the CPU your looking at a new Motherboard. New motherboard means 95% chance you'll need a new Windows license. Add all that up, and  your within a stone's throw of just having a new computer.

    Your kinda in the donut hole of computers. If it were me, I would overclock for Jesus, get the best I could, and save that $300-400 until you can get more like $600-800. Then I would ebay/donate this entire computer as a working unit (they sell/donate/tax writeoff for a lot more that way), and get yourself a brand new computer that gets you to where you ware wanting to be performance wise. You aren't dealing with mixing older equipment and newer equipment, you have two complete and working machines (the original of which you can sell and put towards the expense of the second), and you aren't going to be bottlenecked anywhere significant and chasing upgrade after upgrade on the same rig.


  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,419
    Computer is only ever as fast as its slowest part, and I think you're in a situation where most of the parts in your computer are getting old and slow.

    You'd probably gain some performance by upgrading the GPU, but it's not a miracle fix because then your CPU wouldn't be fast enough to keep up. On the other hand you'd likely also gain some speed by upgrading your CPU, but then the GPU wouldn't keep up.

    I'd recommend waiting with the upgrade until you can buy new GPU + CPU + motherboard all at once, and add SSD disk while you're at it. Your RAM, case, power supply, and HDD look like they're still good enough and you could probably avoid having to replace them. Or alternatively I'd recommend buying a new computer.

    There's no easy fix for your whole computer getting old.
     
  • ReizlaReizla Member RarePosts: 4,083
    Grahxen said:
    Vlad0wnz said:
    AMD Athlon X4 750K CPU

    MSI FM2-A75MA-E35 Motherboard

    2GB Gigabyte Radeon R9 270X Graphics Card

    8GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 RAM

    1TB Western Digital Caviar Black Hard Drive:

    500W Corsair CX500 Power Supply


    With this setup I get 20-35 FPS on lowest settings on games such as Dayz, H1Z1, Arma3. This is all on multiplayer.

    I want to upgrade my rig so I can run these games on med-high settings with 50-60 FPS.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks :)
    You don't really have that bad of a system, but if you don't want to change out a new motherboard/chip, I would simply replace that AMD R9 270x With a Nvidia GTX 970. That R9 270 is just a rebadged 7870HD. Even the GTX 960 will have better performance.
    Kinda worked for me by replacing my GTX660 for a GTX970. But I fear the impact of a GTX970 on his system might be less than on mine because of his much slower X4 CPU. Looking at the prices of the AMD A-series CPUs I think it would be worth to upgrade the GPU and if the CPU is way too slow for it, upgrade the CPU on a later moment.
  • booniedog96booniedog96 Member UncommonPosts: 289
    edited August 2015
    Vlad0wnz said:
    300-400$
    Check these out if your budget is at that range.  I kept the mobo as a mATX assuming you have a mATX case.

    http://pcpartpicker.com/p/fphq23

    Combo includes

     - FX 6300
     - *AM3+ mATX mobo SLI/Xfire capable (Memory Standard: DDR3 2400+(OC)/ 2100(OC)/      1866(OC)/ 1800(OC)/ 1600(OC)/ 1333/ 1066 non-ECC, un-buffered)
     - EVGA GTX 960 2GB SC

    base total: $348.87

    total after rebates: $326.86


    *Make sure your memory is within tolerance of the mobos capability.  It does have a wide range so there is a high probability it is compatible.
  • ReizlaReizla Member RarePosts: 4,083
    Vlad0wnz said:
    300-400$
    Check these out if your budget is at that range.  I kept the mobo as a mATX assuming you have a mATX case.

    http://pcpartpicker.com/p/fphq23

    Combo includes

     - FX 6300
     - *AM3+ mATX mobo SLI/Xfire capable (Memory Standard: DDR3 2400+(OC)/ 2100(OC)/      1866(OC)/ 1800(OC)/ 1600(OC)/ 1333/ 1066 non-ECC, un-buffered)
     - EVGA GTX 960 2GB SC

    base total: $348.87

    total after rebates: $326.86


    *Make sure your memory is within tolerance of the mobos capability.  It does have a wide range so there is a high probability it is compatible.
    mATX case and a SLI/xFire board? You have go tot be kidding there :lol: 
  • booniedog96booniedog96 Member UncommonPosts: 289
    edited August 2015
    Reizla said:
    Vlad0wnz said:
    300-400$
    Check these out if your budget is at that range.  I kept the mobo as a mATX assuming you have a mATX case.

    http://pcpartpicker.com/p/fphq23

    Combo includes

     - FX 6300
     - *AM3+ mATX mobo SLI/Xfire capable (Memory Standard: DDR3 2400+(OC)/ 2100(OC)/      1866(OC)/ 1800(OC)/ 1600(OC)/ 1333/ 1066 non-ECC, un-buffered)
     - EVGA GTX 960 2GB SC

    base total: $348.87

    total after rebates: $326.86


    *Make sure your memory is within tolerance of the mobos capability.  It does have a wide range so there is a high probability it is compatible.
    mATX case and a SLI/xFire board? You have go tot be kidding there :lol: 
    mATX SLI/Xfire no kidding, it is still done.

    http://static5.gamespot.com/uploads/scale_medium/917/9176928/2713584-img_1238.jpg
  • ReizlaReizla Member RarePosts: 4,083
    Reizla said:
    mATX case and a SLI/xFire board? You have go tot be kidding there :lol: 
    mATX SLI/Xfire no kidding, it is still done.

    http://static5.gamespot.com/uploads/scale_medium/917/9176928/2713584-img_1238.jpg
    Apparently not... Didn't know it was possible but how about heath in such a small case? GUess the CPU is watercooled for a reason there ;-)
  • booniedog96booniedog96 Member UncommonPosts: 289
    edited August 2015
    Reizla said:
    Reizla said:
    mATX case and a SLI/xFire board? You have go tot be kidding there :lol: 
    mATX SLI/Xfire no kidding, it is still done.

    http://static5.gamespot.com/uploads/scale_medium/917/9176928/2713584-img_1238.jpg
    Apparently not... Didn't know it was possible but how about heath in such a small case? GUess the CPU is watercooled for a reason there ;-)
    Well, instead of another GPU there is a route to add NVME SSD with the additional slot.

    edit: scratch that, nvme needs PCIe 3.0, this board has 2.0
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,089
    edited August 2015
    Vlad0wnz said:
    300-400$
    Check these out if your budget is at that range.  I kept the mobo as a mATX assuming you have a mATX case.

    http://pcpartpicker.com/p/fphq23

    Combo includes

     - FX 6300
     - *AM3+ mATX mobo SLI/Xfire capable (Memory Standard: DDR3 2400+(OC)/ 2100(OC)/      1866(OC)/ 1800(OC)/ 1600(OC)/ 1333/ 1066 non-ECC, un-buffered)
     - EVGA GTX 960 2GB SC

    base total: $348.87

    total after rebates: $326.86


    *Make sure your memory is within tolerance of the mobos capability.  It does have a wide range so there is a high probability it is compatible.
    The problem is that you propose spending a whole bunch of money for something only slightly faster than what he has now.  He'd then be right back in the position where he is now except with $350 less to throw at fixing it.

    I would say that a game that can't run well at minimum settings on a Radeon HD 7870/Radeon R9 270X is doing something severely wrong.  Reducing the base amount of CPU power that it takes to run a game isn't trivial to do, but reducing the GPU power sure is.  Just reduce the resolution and draw distances and you've greatly lightened the GPU load, in addition to the option to turn off any sort of anti-aliasing or post processing.
  • previnprevin Member UncommonPosts: 47
    Ridelynn said:
    Beyond that, really, to upgrade the CPU your looking at a new Motherboard. New motherboard means 95% chance you'll need a new Windows license. Add all that up, and  your within a stone's throw of just having a new computer.
    I have never had to get a new Windows license for a new motherboard - ever.  Odd that your experience is different.
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,419
    edited August 2015
    previn said:
    Ridelynn said:
    Beyond that, really, to upgrade the CPU your looking at a new Motherboard. New motherboard means 95% chance you'll need a new Windows license. Add all that up, and  your within a stone's throw of just having a new computer.
    I have never had to get a new Windows license for a new motherboard - ever.  Odd that your experience is different.
    Officially you must buy a new Windows license when you upgrade a motherboard if you have OEM Windows.

    Unofficially I've heard of many cases where Microsoft allows it even if it's against license agreement. I think it might have something to do with who originally bought the license from them or activated it. No-one really knows for certain when Microsoft is going to let you re-use OEM license except Microsoft, and they aren't telling.
    Post edited by Vrika on
     
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,059
    Like @Vrika said,

    Windows licensing is terribly obfuscated, and changes a good deal from version to version. But the basic thumbrule that has held mostly true throughout the versions is:

    - "Full Retail" editions are transferable so long as they are only installed on one computer at a time, but cost more up front. Most people do not have a "Full Retail" edition
    - OEM editions (those pre-installed on a computer, or purchased as an OEM license) are valid for the computer they are installed upon only. "Computer' is loosely defined as the motherboard for the purposes of  upgrading components
    - "Upgrade" editions take on the rules of whatever version of Windows they upgraded from (Full Retail or OEM) - I think they dropped Upgrade editions with Win8 and WIn10, thankfully, but a lot of VIsta/7 editions that people are still running are Upgrade editions.
    - Enterprise edition has it's own set of rules, most people do not have an Enterprise license.

    Windows will trigger reactivation whenever it detects enough changes in your hardware configuration, and always after a motherboard change - some people assume that just because Microsoft allows an invalid activation that it's legal - but they are not quite the same thing. I wouldn't recommend anything that's not legal without someone knowing that's the case up front.

    I usually make the assumption that most people will need (as in a legal sense, not so much an actual sense) a new Windows license with a new computer or a new motherboard. I'm not the one buying it for them, I do that for budgeting purposes, so they can see what the cost is. It's up to them to actually purchase it, or ignore it to obtain/reuse Windows in some non-legal means and repurpose that money however they see fit.
  • GrahxenGrahxen Member UncommonPosts: 19
    The best option for his price range is still what I recommended (my opinion). He will double his current performance by replacing that 270X with a GTX 970. Then he can simply save for a new motherboard and CPU. The 970 will hold him for years.

    970 Pixel rate is 110% faster then the 270X
    970 Texel rate is 37% faster then the 270X
    970 Memory Bandwidth is 25% faster then the 270X

    Even with his CPU he will be able to run all his games on medium/high as he specified.
  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Grahxen said:
    The best option for his price range is still what I recommended (my opinion). He will double his current performance by replacing that 270X with a GTX 970. Then he can simply save for a new motherboard and CPU. The 970 will hold him for years.

    970 Pixel rate is 110% faster then the 270X
    970 Texel rate is 37% faster then the 270X
    970 Memory Bandwidth is 25% faster then the 270X

    Even with his CPU he will be able to run all his games on medium/high as he specified.
    If hes going for GPU (not saying that he should) definitely r9 390 as its competing in performance with gtx 980 for price of 970.
  • booniedog96booniedog96 Member UncommonPosts: 289
    edited August 2015
    Quizzical said:

    I would say that a game that can't run well at minimum settings on a Radeon HD 7870/Radeon R9 270X is doing something severely wrong.  Reducing the base amount of CPU power that it takes to run a game isn't trivial to do, but reducing the GPU power sure is.  Just reduce the resolution and draw distances and you've greatly lightened the GPU load, in addition to the option to turn off any sort of anti-aliasing or post processing.
    Hmm, good point.  Hey OP, have you tried down scaling to 900p or 720p?  Try running those games in 1600x900 and 1280x720 resolutions and see what your fps averages are.  Run em with AA off and and a reduced draw distance on Medium/high settings, V-sync off.  Let us know what you come up with.
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,297
    edited September 2015
    Athlon X4 CPUs are... well, I don't know how to tell it nicely... piles of junk.
    If you have the money, put a Core I5 into that PC, you'll see a world of difference. Or if you are really in love with AMD, one of the high end FX CPUs.
    The Core I5 4590k is about 60% faster on single thread than your CPU, that's very important for games.
    Core I5 4590 = like $180 (didn't do much research, I'm in Europe), Gigabyte H97-D3H motherboard $85 (solid reliable motherboard, no big overclocking with that one but the CPU isn't made for that either), there you go, for $265 you gave a mega boost to your rig and you even have spare money for a SSD in your $400 budget which will also give another boost.
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Intel Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: ASUS Dual GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER EVO 8GB DDR6 - RAM: 32GB Kingston HyperX Predator DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Samsung U32J590 32" 4K monitor - Second display: Philips 273v 27" monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset - Sound: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.


  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    Games that you mentioned are CPU heavy and as Jean have said you CPU is terrible. This year is not the year for AMD purchase or upgrade. If you really want to change, i will suggest go with Intel. and that graphics card is fine for medium level detail on graphics. You need to change CPU and Motherboard to intel.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • bone15bone15 Member UncommonPosts: 52
    Games that you mentioned are CPU heavy and as Jean have said you CPU is terrible. This year is not the year for AMD purchase or upgrade. If you really want to change, i will suggest go with Intel. and that graphics card is fine for medium level detail on graphics. You need to change CPU and Motherboard to intel.
    eh Amd cpu has never been good. And also Games are only getting more and more Cpu intensive plus intel is the best upgrade imo. and even Amd Gpu sucks..

    Go intel Nvidia best combo and best performence
  • SomethingUnusualSomethingUnusual Member UncommonPosts: 546
    edited September 2015
    Hrmm... Are you heart set on sticking with the FM2 socket APU? If not, there is your bottleneck and can be easily improved by a new motherboard/processor as you don't need the APU's functions with a dedicated graphics card (Which you have a pretty good card.) I would recommend a newer AM3+ socket board and a newer FX chip to put in there, this would be about $300-450, maybe less if you don't mind used/OEM.

    If you want to stick with the FM2 socket motherboard, you could simply upgrade to say an A8, the A8 line is the highest CPU power in die of the FM2 chips. You might want to think the A10's, but no, they have more GPU power in the die. An A8 6600K or better would run about $150.

    Other than that, you've got a good setup of parts already. Though I would stick to my prior statement of upgrading to an AM3+ board/processor. If your heart is set on AMD.

    If you aren't set on sticking with AMD, I recommend pretty much anything in the i5 or i7 families for intel chips. The i5 series is relatively the same as the A8 in terms of function and power. Though the A8 line has better graphics processing (Radeon 6850 on die compared to intel HD 5k)... Unless going with intel and using a dedicated on the side. These chips are meant more for general computing, not gaming. For gaming you want a dedicated processor, whether intel or AMD, and a dedicated graphics card.

    There is also a matter of chipset. I don't know much of the intel chipsets, however for AMD, you want something in the neighborhood of the 990fx for gaming. AMD chipset information: http://www.amd.com/en-us/products/chipsets
    Intel chipset information: http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/chipsets/chipsets-overview.html

    Edit: Grammar
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