Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

SoL Is this just a marketing scheme and have we all been played for suckers?

BoneserinoBoneserino Member UncommonPosts: 1,764
I just thought it might be good to start our own discussion about Saga of L and its apparent marketing direction. 

It appears to me upon review that we have given this title probably more attention than it deserves at this point due to rather .....aggressive shall we say? .... attitude toward marketing this game.

Its not really new.  Most hardcore and PvP games tend to be this way,  and I understand that.   But this game/ person seems to be taking this a step further.   There seems to be no attempt to entice those who might be sitting on the fence or those who just want to maybe try it and see whats up.

The attitude seems to be: give us your money, if you like it fine, if you don't f*** off!

Generally I understand when a niche game says this is what we are making and it may not be for you.  For me that was Repop, but I liked the devs and was willing to give it a go.  Not my style but in the end I respect their vision.   And I also will defend a game that says it is for a certain type of gamer and if you aren't that type you probably won't like it.

In other words treat each person as an individual, and don't lump us all together as " F2P cry babies"

I am also a bit surprised that this PR person seems to have been given a soapbox by this site to say whatever comes out of his mouth, but as per usual, the forum mods have come down heavy, when it comes to actually disagreeing with someone who apparently is part of a dev team.  It just smacks of lets kiss their ass and screw the people who come here regularly to post.

End of the day, this whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth concerning gaming.  There really seems to be a huge divide, where I previously, naively assumed that we all had the basic goals in mind.   But it seems we are now pitting gamer vs. gamer in some type of popularity contest.  Come to our side, the rest of those guys are ( carebears, PvP asshats etc.)

I suppose my question is does it have to be this way?  Are we starting to make games in order to exclude others?  Are we becoming a bunch of private clubs with requirement for membership?   Will this type of game marketing succeed and will we see more of it?

FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

«13

Comments

  • anemoanemo Member RarePosts: 1,820
    You're standing on the same type of podium, and using the same methodolgy in this post.

    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] UncommonPosts: 0
    edited August 2015
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 9,862
    I bs you not, I looked to see if this guy was related Jason Appleton in someway.
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    What game?

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • RottsteinRottstein Member UncommonPosts: 66
    Thanks for trying to force more political correctness.  Its almost like we dont have enough of that.
  • JoreelJoreel Member UncommonPosts: 147
    edited August 2015
    So let me ask you this Boneserino...

    "Are you a supporter of the game?"
    "Have you even played the Pre-Alpha build yet?"
    "What do you really know about the game that enables you to speak from a position of authority about the game?"
    "Have you ever talked to the Tim or Emma, or even Bradley on the SoL forums or in the live streams?"

    I'd love to know as you seem to have some definite opinion about the Devs and their game and how they should be doing things... 
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,559
    The game sounds interesting to me.  I'm ok with sticking to their vision.   His general attitude of with us or against us and f*** off everyone else screams  unprofessional to me and doesn't inspire me to help support them.  It's sounds juvenile,  amateurish and screens of the stereotype  ffa PvP mentality that i dont like.  Yes i already know this won't have pvp. It's  the attitude.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • thunderclesthundercles Member UncommonPosts: 510
    So much hyperbole!
  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,201
    This reminds me of the Derek Smart threads. His games are not memorable because of the game, but because of the drama around the game.
  • BuccaneerBuccaneer Member UncommonPosts: 654
    The game sounds interesting to me.  I'm ok with sticking to their vision.   His general attitude of with us or against us and f*** off everyone else screams  unprofessional to me and doesn't inspire me to help support them.  It's sounds juvenile,  amateurish and screens of the stereotype  ffa PvP mentality that i dont like.  Yes i already know this won't have pvp. It's  the attitude.
    I have to agree.  I would have supported their vision.  I looked at their game site and thought I could get behind this; at last a sandbox is being made without FFA full loot PVP.  I don't care if the game is P2P, B2P or F2P, if it's good I would have played it.  Instead I carried on reading the thread regarding the game and saw the producer of the studio trolling and baiting the readers of this forum.  The man showed no tolerance to the slightest criticism, which was aimed at his attitude instead of the game.  How can I trust someone that is unprofessional whilst under no public stress to deliver on their promises and be professional in the future.  Also if this attitude is going to be a common occurance from the dev team, will this attitude be promoted in game.

  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    Rottstein said:
    Thanks for trying to force more political correctness.  Its almost like we dont have enough of that.
    Common sense and decency have now become "political correctness"? Ohh wait, i forgot that we now live in "Fuck you" generation, i guess all the "fuck you" statement are now considered decent and filled with common sense. not saying "fuck you" or "fuck off" or things along the line is "political correct but negligible ".

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • KanethKaneth Member RarePosts: 2,283
    Rottstein said:
    Thanks for trying to force more political correctness.  Its almost like we dont have enough of that.
    Common sense and decency have now become "political correctness"? Ohh wait, i forgot that we now live in "Fuck you" generation, i guess all the "fuck you" statement are now considered decent and filled with common sense. not saying "fuck you" or "fuck off" or things along the line is "political correct but negligible ".
    Couldn't agree more. Acting mature and polite is now considered political correctness, which is utterly ridiculous. Acting like a complete and utter prick is so commonplace now that it has nearly become the norm. 

    We'd all do well to remember the immortal words of Bill and Ted, "Be excellent to each other".
  • TikkunTikkun Member UncommonPosts: 13
    Having gone to the SoL site and read the blogs and posts, I am unsure as to why everyone is complaining about Renfell and his position ( I don't perceive it as an "attitude").  It seems clear that the type of game they are hoping to produce is a monthly subscription funded, group-centric, PvE,  dungeon crawl.  I have ventured to the SoL website and read blogs and forums and am quite impressed with SoL team's refusal to back away from their central point of view regarding the gaming experience.  If during the course of explaining their point of view they are clear on who they don't want to play their game; that is their perogative.  Why should anyone care how they market themselves.  Least of all people who have not made any financial commitment to the SoL production.

    If the game or Renfell's position bothers you don't purchase or play the game.  If you are seriously that disturbed by his comments on his website don't go there.  But I am more than sure he would love to thank you for all the free advertising you have provided for his game.  I. for one, am looking forward to this type of game as it reminds me of the old MUD and static picture MMORPG's I played in days gone by.  Here's hoping Saga of Lucimia gets completed and enjoys the success that the SoL team is aiming for.
  • inmysightsinmysights Member UncommonPosts: 408
    I don't understand why people are so butt hurt from Devs stating what type of MMO player they are catering to. I am glad they are doing this so I wont waste my time with the game they are building. We have so many MMO's today, we don't have enough daylight to play them all. I know of one other game off the top of my head who has said right from day one we are making a PVE/dungeon crawl, group centric MMO, Pantheon Rise of the Fallen. I don't see people raising a butt stink over the Devs preaching about it.

    I am so good, I backstabbed your face!

  • BuccaneerBuccaneer Member UncommonPosts: 654
    I don't understand why people are so butt hurt from Devs stating what type of MMO player they are catering to. I am glad they are doing this so I wont waste my time with the game they are building. We have so many MMO's today, we don't have enough daylight to play them all. I know of one other game off the top of my head who has said right from day one we are making a PVE/dungeon crawl, group centric MMO, Pantheon Rise of the Fallen. I don't see people raising a butt stink over the Devs preaching about it.
    True but the producer of Pantheon is not telling you to F**K Off if you don't like it.
  • inmysightsinmysights Member UncommonPosts: 408
    Buccaneer said:
    I don't understand why people are so butt hurt from Devs stating what type of MMO player they are catering to. I am glad they are doing this so I wont waste my time with the game they are building. We have so many MMO's today, we don't have enough daylight to play them all. I know of one other game off the top of my head who has said right from day one we are making a PVE/dungeon crawl, group centric MMO, Pantheon Rise of the Fallen. I don't see people raising a butt stink over the Devs preaching about it.
    True but the producer of Pantheon is not telling you to F**K Off if you don't like it.
    wow, I did not get that from reading the comments, did he actually say that, or just was taken like that in gest?

    I am so good, I backstabbed your face!

  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    Tikkun said:
    Having gone to the SoL site and read the blogs and posts, I am unsure as to why everyone is complaining about Renfell and his position ( I don't perceive it as an "attitude").  It seems clear that the type of game they are hoping to produce is a monthly subscription funded, group-centric, PvE,  dungeon crawl.  I have ventured to the SoL website and read blogs and forums and am quite impressed with SoL team's refusal to back away from their central point of view regarding the gaming experience.  If during the course of explaining their point of view they are clear on who they don't want to play their game; that is their perogative.  Why should anyone care how they market themselves.  Least of all people who have not made any financial commitment to the SoL production.

    If the game or Renfell's position bothers you don't purchase or play the game.  If you are seriously that disturbed by his comments on his website don't go there.  But I am more than sure he would love to thank you for all the free advertising you have provided for his game.  I. for one, am looking forward to this type of game as it reminds me of the old MUD and static picture MMORPG's I played in days gone by.  Here's hoping Saga of Lucimia gets completed and enjoys the success that the SoL team is aiming for.
    Am i to understand you are one of the people associated with renfail? you just posted your 1st comment on forum on this particular thread which by the way completely misses the point OP and many of us trying to make. and as soon as you post renfail likes it...tsk tsk tsk..
    I don't understand why people are so butt hurt from Devs stating what type of MMO player they are catering to. I am glad they are doing this so I wont waste my time with the game they are building. We have so many MMO's today, we don't have enough daylight to play them all. I know of one other game off the top of my head who has said right from day one we are making a PVE/dungeon crawl, group centric MMO, Pantheon Rise of the Fallen. I don't see people raising a butt stink over the Devs preaching about it.
      Yeah but pantheon devs did not badmouth any particular group of players and then claimed that they are being indecent because they don't want to be "politically correct", we ask since when did decency and common sense became a matter of "political correctness"?

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • RenfailRenfail Member RarePosts: 1,342
    wow, I did not get that from reading the comments, did he actually say that, or just was taken like that in gest?
    http://sagaoflucimia.com/our-world-our-way

    Taken out of context by many on these forums; read it and form your own opinion. 
    Tim "Renfail" Anderson | Creative Director | The Saga of Lucimia MMORPG
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,654
    The game sounds interesting to me.  I'm ok with sticking to their vision.   His general attitude of with us or against us and f*** off everyone else screams  unprofessional to me and doesn't inspire me to help support them.  It's sounds juvenile,  amateurish and screens of the stereotype  ffa PvP mentality that i dont like.  Yes i already know this won't have pvp. It's  the attitude.
    I'm in agreement with you. I'm all for how they want to make a game but if he worked for me I'd fire him.

    Having said that, he doesn't and it's his company so he can act however he wants. If it works for him then fine. If it eventually it bites him in the butt then that's a lesson he can process however he wants.

    On the other hand, too often people like songs or movies/actors, art, musical pieces, "whatever" that they might think are brilliant but the creators leave a lot to be desired.

    We would miss out on a lot of great things if we always judged the work by the creators.




  • AzothAzoth Member UncommonPosts: 840
    I suppose my question is does it have to be this way?  Are we starting to make games in order to exclude others?  Are we becoming a bunch of private clubs with requirement for membership?   Will this type of game marketing succeed and will we see more of it?
    I for one have been asking for more focused games that aren't catering to the masses. What the guy is saying, is that he don't want to waste time on people his game doesn't interest. The big fuss seems to be only about the way he express himself, to me that isn't relevant to the game. If a company I totally despise was to make my perfect mmorpg, I would buy and play it. Does that make me a prostitute? Maybe, but I don't care. I will judge on the result. 

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,286
    The only relevant thing about SOL (unfortunate acronym that lol) is whether it will be a good game or not. Right now we're in a very early "where's the beef" stage so we'll just have to wait and see.


    In sharp contrast to Mr. Appleton and his KS scam, this game is not asking for donations and they are specifically not asking by pretending to be all things to all players which is the typical KS hook.


    Is the producer a bit too much "in your face" with replies here? Yeah, maybe so. It's why even small indie studios typically have a community manager type person to do most of the talking with fans and other interested people. As soon as he said fuck you he seemed to hit a raw nerve especially with the MMO crowd so used to having even their most outrageous insulting rants catered to with polite responses.


    That seems to be the part most here want to talk about. How dare he tell us he doesn't want to hear our premature gripes!


    Personally I don't give much of a shit about that. I want to see the beef when there's beef to show. Until then this, like all games this early in development, is just a mild curiosity I'll put in the back of my mind as something worth keeping an eye on. 
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,744
    Know what really cracks me up?
    Fail uprating all the posts that praise him.

    The master is tossing bones to his pets.
    Harbinger of Fools
  • TikkunTikkun Member UncommonPosts: 13
    Actually, I am not associated with SoL in any capacity, other than having just gone to sign up on their website.  If I was associated with them I might have gotten Renfail's name correctly from the first  ( my apologies, good sir ). If you took the trouble to look beyond post count, you might note that I have been a member since 2010 ( though I have been on these boards much earlier and this is a 'newer' personna ).  I note you joined in 2013.  You appear to post more than me but I wonder if that makes your point any more cogent or noteworthy than mine.  Pray tell what is the point you are trying to make?  You don't like the language on his website?  You feel he should cater to your prejudices?  I suggest you re-read my post with the object of understanding the content.  You appear to have missed my response in its entirety.
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 9,862
    Iselin said:
    The only relevant thing about SOL (unfortunate acronym that lol) is whether it will be a good game or not. Right now we're in a very early "where's the beef" stage so we'll just have to wait and see.


    In sharp contrast to Mr. Appleton and his KS scam, this game is not asking for donations and they are specifically not asking by pretending to be all things to all players which is the typical KS hook.


    Is the producer a bit too much "in your face" with replies here? Yeah, maybe so. It's why even small indie studios typically have a community manager type person to do most of the talking with fans and other interested people. As soon as he said fuck you he seemed to hit a raw nerve especially with the MMO crowd so used to having even their most outrageous insulting rants catered to with polite responses.


    That seems to be the part most here want to talk about. How dare he tell us he doesn't want to hear our premature gripes!


    Personally I don't give much of a shit about that. I want to see the beef when there's beef to show. Until then this, like all games this early in development, is just a mild curiosity I'll put in the back of my mind as something worth keeping an eye on. 
    1. Your payment is a deposit to be used for the development and production cost of the Game, including the website cost, the production and delivery cost for the pledge items, and Stormhaven Studio’s corporate expenses associated with the foregoing (the Game Cost).
    1. The deposit shall be earned by Stormhaven Studios and become non-refundable to the extent that it is used for the Game Cost, with each Contributor’s deposit being applied as follows: first to the fulfillment of the pre-order tier items, and then to the Game Cost in a percentage equal to the total applied Game Cost in relation to the total Contributor deposits remaining after the cost for the pledge items.
    http://www.stormhavenstudios.com/terms-of-service/

    $200 per seat role play.
    http://sagaoflucimia.com/forums/index.php?threads/saturday-night-roleplay-group.41/

    Pre-orders opening in the next couple weeks.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,286
    bcbully said:
    Iselin said:
    The only relevant thing about SOL (unfortunate acronym that lol) is whether it will be a good game or not. Right now we're in a very early "where's the beef" stage so we'll just have to wait and see.


    In sharp contrast to Mr. Appleton and his KS scam, this game is not asking for donations and they are specifically not asking by pretending to be all things to all players which is the typical KS hook.


    Is the producer a bit too much "in your face" with replies here? Yeah, maybe so. It's why even small indie studios typically have a community manager type person to do most of the talking with fans and other interested people. As soon as he said fuck you he seemed to hit a raw nerve especially with the MMO crowd so used to having even their most outrageous insulting rants catered to with polite responses.


    That seems to be the part most here want to talk about. How dare he tell us he doesn't want to hear our premature gripes!


    Personally I don't give much of a shit about that. I want to see the beef when there's beef to show. Until then this, like all games this early in development, is just a mild curiosity I'll put in the back of my mind as something worth keeping an eye on. 
    1. Your payment is a deposit to be used for the development and production cost of the Game, including the website cost, the production and delivery cost for the pledge items, and Stormhaven Studio’s corporate expenses associated with the foregoing (the Game Cost).
    1. The deposit shall be earned by Stormhaven Studios and become non-refundable to the extent that it is used for the Game Cost, with each Contributor’s deposit being applied as follows: first to the fulfillment of the pre-order tier items, and then to the Game Cost in a percentage equal to the total applied Game Cost in relation to the total Contributor deposits remaining after the cost for the pledge items.
    http://www.stormhavenstudios.com/terms-of-service/

    $200 per seat role play.
    http://sagaoflucimia.com/forums/index.php?threads/saturday-night-roleplay-group.41/

    Pre-orders opening in the next couple weeks.

    Shrug... I'm not in the habit of buying any games before they're ready. And it isn't a KS campaign just pre-orders catering to the committed... which is the term I prefer for people who put a lot of money and emotional energy into games way too early since it reminds me of residence in mental institutions.

    The "get in early and have your ideas be part of devlopment" hook doesn't seem to work on me for some reason. I'm a games consumer and I'm happy just consuming them when they're ready.


    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
This discussion has been closed.