Does a new Heroes/ Villains MMO need to be story driven?

SirCedric

I was watching Superman Returns last night at the hotel, and while I was watching him save that airplane, I got to thinking man how cool would that be in a game.

So..............

With the current games out right now, they just fall short for having epic game play. I figure why not have your Avatar part of a Storyline, then once you finish that story you go off to do whatever else in the game. Sure you can still have side missions/ quests, but you would still follow your own story, for your Hero/ Villain.

The Video I post gives a great example to one mission you would get in a story driven MMO.

Not saying that's all you get, just make it the Heart of the game, you can still have the other things on top of that right?

 

SirCedric

I didn't forget you Villain types. lol

 

Loktofeit

Originally posted by SirCedric

I didn't forget you Villain types. lol

I see they use the same near-infinite ammo clips that the A-Team uses. 

Loktofeit

SirCedric, it seems like you want a single-player game, as you really haven't presented any MMO aspect to what you wanted. As to your question, if we are still considering MMOs, it is a matter of whether your target audience wants to be someone with superpowers or to be THE hero/villain. If the former, just enough story for context is usually needed but not much more. If the players want to be THE hero/villain then a good amount of scripted encounters need to be present to make them the hero.

This is because everyone can't be the fastest, best, most skilled, charismatic person in the game. Some will fit that bill and others won't. As such, the person who wants to be THE hero but isn't of hero caliber needs scripted and contrived experiences that will deliver the outcome they are looking for. 

SirCedric

Originally posted by Loktofeit

SirCedric, it seems like you want a single-player game, as you really haven't presented any MMO aspect to what you wanted. As to your question, if we are still considering MMOs, it is a matter of whether your target audience wants to be someone with superpowers or to be THE hero/villain. If the former, just enough story for context is usually needed but not much more. If the players want to be THE hero/villain then a good amount of scripted encounters need to be present to make them the hero.

This is because everyone can't be the fastest, best, most skilled, charismatic person in the game. Some will fit that bill and others won't. As such, the person who wants to be THE hero but isn't of hero caliber needs scripted and contrived experiences that will deliver the outcome they are looking for. 

So what's wrong with single player content within a MMO?

I am just focusing on this part of any NEW type of Comic Hero vs Villain game. People have already said they want to see the return of a City of Heroes type game, to replace the one that was canceled. I am just adding would a story help to shape what your doing in the game, and make you feel more part of said game?

Flyte27

In games like UO and EQ where there was no story this type of thing seemed to happen a lot.  Sometimes you were the one being saved, sometimes you were saving others, and sometimes you might just opt to stay out of it.  It felt a lot better for me since none of it was scripted.  It just kind of happened during the course of traveling around the game world and trying to advance in some way.

Loktofeit

Originally posted by SirCedric

Originally posted by Loktofeit

SirCedric, it seems like you want a single-player game, as you really haven't presented any MMO aspect to what you wanted. As to your question, if we are still considering MMOs, it is a matter of whether your target audience wants to be someone with superpowers or to be THE hero/villain. If the former, just enough story for context is usually needed but not much more. If the players want to be THE hero/villain then a good amount of scripted encounters need to be present to make them the hero.

This is because everyone can't be the fastest, best, most skilled, charismatic person in the game. Some will fit that bill and others won't. As such, the person who wants to be THE hero but isn't of hero caliber needs scripted and contrived experiences that will deliver the outcome they are looking for. 

So what's wrong with single player content within a MMO?

I am just focusing on this part of any NEW type of Comic Hero vs Villain game. People have already said they want to see the return of a City of Heroes type game, to replace the one that was canceled. I am just adding would a story help to shape what your doing in the game, and make you feel more part of said game?

Nothing is wrong with single-player content in an MMO. However, that you want it in an MMO makes a huge difference as to whether story needs to be present or not. 

Axehilt

Nearly all RPGs have story, and it's most often a central element, so yes obviously MMORPGs should contain story regardless of their theme.

Also it continues to surprise me that Superman is still a thing.  There's no relatability or depth to his character.

Loktofeit

Originally posted by Flyte27
In games like UO and EQ where there was no story this type of thing seemed to happen a lot.  Sometimes you were the one being saved, sometimes you were saving others, and sometimes you might just opt to stay out of it.  It felt a lot better for me since none of it was scripted.  It just kind of happened during the course of traveling around the game world and trying to advance in some way.

Thus the distinction between being A hero and THE hero. 

 

Octagon7711

It's good to have a back story.  If it's a good one it helps immersion.  You know better why you're going up against this guy.  Is it really needed? No.  But some players know the entire lore of the game they play.  Funny, I was just watching the entire cutscenes  back story of the Diablo series on YouTube last night.

Kajidourden

First we just need one, period.

Arglebargle

Originally posted by Octagon7711
It's good to have a back story.  If it's a good one it helps immersion.  You know better why you're going up against this guy.  Is it really needed? No.  But some players know the entire lore of the game they play.  Funny, I was just watching the entire cutscenes  back story of the Diablo series on YouTube last night.

My condolences to you!  

 

I agree about the good back story helping immersion and your sense of setting.  If I don't like it, I am way less likely to play on.

Theocritus

I actually do not like story driven games...To me many of them feel like everything is already done and Im just going through the motions...I prefer they put the game world in place and we make our own story.

SavageHorizon

Originally posted by Flyte27
In games like UO and EQ where there was no story this type of thing seemed to happen a lot.  Sometimes you were the one being saved, sometimes you were saving others, and sometimes you might just opt to stay out of it.  It felt a lot better for me since none of it was scripted.  It just kind of happened during the course of traveling around the game world and trying to advance in some way.

I agree.

I think they have turned lore into a played out story where you have no choice but to follow it.

 

It's hand holding and in some ways controlling how you play the game. Story is ok to a point in single player rpg but in an mmo it's immersion breaking.

 

Perhaps i don't give a fuck whether king ragna bonned his brothers wife and now his brother wants to chop his nuts off.

 

OK I will admit i did like lotro books but it's gone way over the top.

gideonvaldes

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by SirCedric

I didn't forget you Villain types. lol

I see they use the same near-infinite ammo clips that the A-Team uses. 

haha that's the first thing that I've noticed too lol

FomaldehydeJim

Honestly, I would be a happy man if I never saw another superhero anything again.

I am so bloody bored of Marvel releasing a movie every week, with all creativity and heart bled out of it in favour of arrogantly tying the plot into every other dam movie, thus creating an edifice of tedious CGI laden crap (except for Guardians of the galaxy, which was good).

And if Marvel wasn't irritating enough we also have to watch Superman commit genocide. Superman killing an entire city full of people... what the fuck?

Frankly superheroes can piss off to wherever vampires and werewolves finally pissed off to.     

end of rant.  

tupodawg999

To me superhero games seem more aligned with a mission based design with a random villain and henchmen - with a good enough villain generator you'd never know what you were going to face.

 

cameltosis

In a Heroes / Villains MMO, players need opportunities to feel like heroes or villains. 

 

If the MMO is well designed, then the gameplay itself should present enough opportunities for you to feel like you are fulfilling your purpose. E.g. if villians are allowed to hold up banks, rob stores or whatever, then that might make them feel like a villian without the need for story. Likewise, a hero walking past might see the robbery, jump in, dual the villain and beat them, saving the civilians and making them feel like a hero. 

 

However, if the MMO isn't designed to naturally provide these opportunities, then a storyline and scripted content is needed. 

Loke666

It doesn't have to, you could sandbox a multiplayer heroes and villains game pretty easy as well. Basically do you just need to build a city with possibilities and let the villains rob banks and whatever they like while the heroes try to stop them. It is funnier when you add npc cops and small time criminals as well.

Story driven games or sandboxes where players plan heists and try to take over the world (narf) can both be really fun and the devs to really need to do things in any specific way as long as it is fun.

moonbound

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by SirCedric

Originally posted by Loktofeit

SirCedric, it seems like you want a single-player game, as you really haven't presented any MMO aspect to what you wanted. As to your question, if we are still considering MMOs, it is a matter of whether your target audience wants to be someone with superpowers or to be THE hero/villain. If the former, just enough story for context is usually needed but not much more. If the players want to be THE hero/villain then a good amount of scripted encounters need to be present to make them the hero.

This is because everyone can't be the fastest, best, most skilled, charismatic person in the game. Some will fit that bill and others won't. As such, the person who wants to be THE hero but isn't of hero caliber needs scripted and contrived experiences that will deliver the outcome they are looking for. 

So what's wrong with single player content within a MMO?

I am just focusing on this part of any NEW type of Comic Hero vs Villain game. People have already said they want to see the return of a City of Heroes type game, to replace the one that was canceled. I am just adding would a story help to shape what your doing in the game, and make you feel more part of said game?

Nothing is wrong with single-player content in an MMO. However, that you want it in an MMO makes a huge difference as to whether story needs to be present or not. 

Didnt you try to say the same thing about my super hero mmo topic a while back which had nothing to do with what he is saying? Why is this always your defense? Its obvious some of you are just biased against new super hero mmorpgs or something.

moonbound

Originally posted by Axehilt

Nearly all RPGs have story, and it's most often a central element, so yes obviously MMORPGs should contain story regardless of their theme.

Also it continues to surprise me that Superman is still a thing.  There's no relatability or depth to his character.

You should not say things like this without actually reading the comics and understanding why someone like superman might have depth, he deals with human and alien emotions, his world is destroyed, he is an outsider 3 things at the top of my head and many other things like sins of his planet comes back to haunt him and more I can think of much more that gives superman depth. Now is he overpowered? Yes he is.

Loktofeit

Originally posted by moonbound

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by SirCedric

Originally posted by Loktofeit

SirCedric, it seems like you want a single-player game, as you really haven't presented any MMO aspect to what you wanted. As to your question, if we are still considering MMOs, it is a matter of whether your target audience wants to be someone with superpowers or to be THE hero/villain. If the former, just enough story for context is usually needed but not much more. If the players want to be THE hero/villain then a good amount of scripted encounters need to be present to make them the hero.

This is because everyone can't be the fastest, best, most skilled, charismatic person in the game. Some will fit that bill and others won't. As such, the person who wants to be THE hero but isn't of hero caliber needs scripted and contrived experiences that will deliver the outcome they are looking for. 

So what's wrong with single player content within a MMO?

I am just focusing on this part of any NEW type of Comic Hero vs Villain game. People have already said they want to see the return of a City of Heroes type game, to replace the one that was canceled. I am just adding would a story help to shape what your doing in the game, and make you feel more part of said game?

Nothing is wrong with single-player content in an MMO. However, that you want it in an MMO makes a huge difference as to whether story needs to be present or not. 

Didnt you try to say the same thing about my super hero mmo topic a while back which had nothing to do with what he is saying? Why is this always your defense? Its obvious some of you are just biased against new super hero mmorpgs or something.

Well, if that's your take away from that, more power to you. 

Flyte27

Originally posted by moonbound

Originally posted by Axehilt

Nearly all RPGs have story, and it's most often a central element, so yes obviously MMORPGs should contain story regardless of their theme.

Also it continues to surprise me that Superman is still a thing.  There's no relatability or depth to his character.

You should not say things like this without actually reading the comics and understanding why someone like superman might have depth, he deals with human and alien emotions, his world is destroyed, he is an outsider 3 things at the top of my head and many other things like sins of his planet comes back to haunt him and more I can think of much more that gives superman depth. Now is he overpowered? Yes he is.

I liked the Christopher Reeves superman, but I was a kid when I watched the movies.  What I really liked about his superman was the way he was polite, honest, hard working, and self sacrificing.  He had super powers and could have just taken over or destroyed the world, but he chose to help people.  I'm not sure I would ever want to play a game about him though.  It's more like having a role model.  Someone to look up to.

Ironman is fairly fun when portrayed by Robert Downy Jr.  I'd rather play as that character as he has a more interesting personality overall.  I've never been a big fan of playing super heroes though.

I like fantasy, westerns, and also games like involve archaeology in a fun way like Indiana Jones (I know it's fake lol).

Getting back to the main topic I'm not a big fan of scripted events in MMOs as I I've said.  Especially ones that are the same for everyone.  I like them in single player games.  The Witcher 3 is excellent in this regard and provides more freedom in terms of what order you do things and when you want to do them then the current MMOs.  My only gripe would be it shows you exactly where to go when you select a quest.  I generally ignore the GPS though and just wander.  It's far more fun that way for me.

SirCedric

Guys, I think my main point on this topic was just giving your Avatar a storyline, and you play out your role in the story. Now having said that, the story doesn't have to go in a straight line. You can have pros and cons to the story, and it can end different if you do different things.

One example is what you see with SWToR, it's a good start with what I am talking about, but I would like to see it expanded a little more. it's that Dark side vs Light side thing.  The story plays out, you make your choice within the story, and the outcome changes with each pick you make.

I get it you don't want to be locked into just playing story mode, that's fine, but this idea was only to help flesh out who you are in the game, not to lock you into just storyland. PvE, PvP, Open world missions, and all that Jazz would still be part of the game I am sure, just saying why now have this in the game too. IMO It can only help.

 

 

SirCedric

Oh and here is that light side ending, so you can compare the two.

Axehilt

Originally posted by Rhoklaw

Until we see a game developer come up with content that is truly unique start to finish, this sort of game scenario won't exist. No one ever feels special because everyone is the same hero.

Player #1: "Man, you should of seen me yesterday. I slaughtered an entire stronghold of undead and saved the nearby village from absolute corruption."

Player #2: "Really? That's odd. I blew up that same stronghold a week ago with a meteor and subsequently destroyed the nearby village along with it. Good to know they were all able to rebuild their village."

This is the current problem. This is also the reason for sandbox elements. People are tired of doing the same content, over and over and over. If players are ever going to feel unique, then their actions and decisions need to be unique which also means their story is unique.

Surely you're aware that this is a near-nonexistent problem and that even calling it a problem over-sells its importance.  Surely you're aware -- at least in a vague sense -- that WOW's success vastly exceeds that of its competitors, in spite of using this type of content.

Almost nobody cares whether someone else has done the same thing. The far more important factor is whether that thing is fun to do.

Unique experiences are a nice-to-have but definitely aren't preventing players from feeling special or having fun.