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No MMORPGS to get excited about for the foreseeable future

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  • VeerdinVeerdin Member UncommonPosts: 33
    @Shaigh Thanks! I did see that there was an English patch for the game, but the whole needing to pay for a KR account + needing to buy a VPN is a bit of a turn-off right now. Especially since the game apparently has forced PVP after level 30.  But I appreciate the heads up!
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
    Gaendric said:

    Unfortunately, it will take a while until the players understand this and accept lower polish/quality, thus for now the best option is to make a lower scope very focussed game.

    why would I ever need to accept lower polish/quality? There are plenty of other fun online games with polish/quality.

    That is not to say indie game cannot have some polish & quality. 
  • GaendricGaendric Member UncommonPosts: 618
    edited July 2016
    Gaendric said:

    Unfortunately, it will take a while until the players understand this and accept lower polish/quality, thus for now the best option is to make a lower scope very focussed game.

    why would I ever need to accept lower polish/quality? There are plenty of other fun online games with polish/quality.

    That is not to say indie game cannot have some polish & quality. 
    You are missing the point. We were talking about niche games in certain sub-segments. I was replying to a comment about specific games not being full scope. 
    People who want those types of games can't just play something else that doesn't fit to their taste. 
    It's great for you that you enjoy mass market games (I do too), but not everyone does.
    Those people can not have their niche games with mass market budgets.
    That was the point. Thus something has to give. Either they accept focussed lower scope games or a bit less polish.

    Post edited by Gaendric on
  • leoakleoak Member UncommonPosts: 8
    I'm so bored with gaming I've resorted to watching anime from the 80s. :(  I'm finding it far more entertaining to watch anime that was already old when I saw it as a little kid than playing anything that's available on the market now.  I'm guessing that by the time I've watched my way back to present day anime, maybe -- just maybe!-- there will be something mildly entertaining to play.  So far No Man's Sky and Worlds Adrift are the only games that look like they might be interesting, but I'm not getting my hopes up. 

    As for future of MMOs, for me it seems like it's a genre that's died a slow death and all that's left is a rotting corpse.  Gone are the days you could play an MMO for a year or more.  Count yourself lucky if you find one you can play for more than 3 months.        
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
    Gaendric said:

    People who want those types of games can't just play something else that doesn't fit to their taste. 
    It's great for you that you enjoy mass market games (I do too), but not everyone does.
    Those people can not have their niche games with mass market budgets.
    That was the point. Thus something has to give. Either they accept focussed lower scope games or a bit less polish.


    Sure ... but people who have taste so narrow that there is no good AAA options may want to think about expanding their horizon.


  • GaendricGaendric Member UncommonPosts: 618
    Gaendric said:
    People who want those types of games can't just play something else that doesn't fit to their taste. 
    It's great for you that you enjoy mass market games (I do too), but not everyone does.
    Those people can not have their niche games with mass market budgets.
    That was the point. Thus something has to give. Either they accept focussed lower scope games or a bit less polish.


    Sure ... but people who have taste so narrow that there is no good AAA options may want to think about expanding their horizon.

    Yes, if they don't accept mid-budget scope/quality, they will have to. I agree.

  • rush1984rush1984 Member UncommonPosts: 369
    soooo i bought legion did some norm/hc/mythic raiding got some "legionaries" meh.. kara was fun for abit ..... got fed up with easymode wow went back to nostralius pvp server  got bored of teh grind  same old......

    now im bored again, no decent mmorpgs in development seem to have beta sign ups unless u pay for it anymore .... time to give up my brain tells me but my heart says no :(

    what to do !
  • MensurMensur Member RarePosts: 829
    edited January 2017
    rush1984 said:

    It really seems that mmorpgs are dying to me

    I havent gone this long without being hyped for one mmorpg or another for so long, seems to me devs aint listening to what long term players and cater to the play 1 month and move on players.

    All the games coming up crowfall, camelot unchained to name a couple just seem meh and everquest next well if that actually gets made i cant see it being any good, Its like they have no idea what players want :S

    Nope i really think this is it for now, maybe between 2018-2020 some good mmorpgs will get made using oculus rift or something  which might be pretty cool seems like a long time  to wait:(

     

    I want a mmo to keep me interested like wow did back in vannila through to tbc , but that doesnt seem like its possible anymore.

    You my friend dont know your MMORPGs - If you did you would not write this garbage..

    EDIT: Sorry...didnt realize that this is an old article... :P 

    “Do not be so open-minded that your brains fall out.”


    ― G.K. Chesterton
  • rush1984rush1984 Member UncommonPosts: 369
    edited January 2017
    Mensur said:
    rush1984 said:

    It really seems that mmorpgs are dying to me

    I havent gone this long without being hyped for one mmorpg or another for so long, seems to me devs aint listening to what long term players and cater to the play 1 month and move on players.

    All the games coming up crowfall, camelot unchained to name a couple just seem meh and everquest next well if that actually gets made i cant see it being any good, Its like they have no idea what players want :S

    Nope i really think this is it for now, maybe between 2018-2020 some good mmorpgs will get made using oculus rift or something  which might be pretty cool seems like a long time  to wait:(

     

    I want a mmo to keep me interested like wow did back in vannila through to tbc , but that doesnt seem like its possible anymore.

    You my friend dont know your MMORPGs - If you did you would not write this garbage..

    EDIT: Sorry...didnt realize that this is an old article... :P 
    please my friend enlighten me  i need something to play  that doesnt suck balls

    there is one game that caught my eye and thats bless but im not gonna do all that back door shit just to play it
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,005

    Cash shops killed the market

     

    I dont really agree....THe quality of the games has nothing to do with the cash shops....They jsut arent making very good games anymore...Basically the same thing we have been seeing since WoW....Not that they are all WoW clones, but they are in the same easy, instant gratification mode.
  • TzavokTzavok Member UncommonPosts: 52
    I have always wanted to play some MMORPG that is all about exploring, finding dungeons without mobs at all, or maybe some but not aggressive, stuff like that.

    Dungeons could be puzzles, deciphering stuff, finding hidden treasures, combat could be here too, but not necessary at all.


  • JakkssJakkss Member UncommonPosts: 34
    Sometimes I think I will just wait a decade to see what happens to the video game genre... Maybe VR and AR will come a thing by then. 
  • ShinamiShinami Member UncommonPosts: 825
    Right now I find that MMORPGs are in a poor state. 
    A lot of games, but each game has the same two major formulas. 

    When RPGs began, they were supposed to be about problem-solving as a group in tabletop games while also acting out a character. The GM (or DM if its D&D) and his ability to lead the game itself allowed a session to be epic or complete trash. Then eventually RPG video games started being made and the commercials were marketed to D&D players who were treated like third or fourth class citizens; Often outcast and picked on. 

    These games held the stereotypes that in order to be "Roleplaying" there must be selection windows to simulate the tabletop idea of "situation X is happening... so what do we do? Do we fight, use an item, cast a spell, or run away?" and that system allowed a single player to build a party, equip a party, manage a party, and achieve a decent sense of self-worth. I mean c'mon... while most games were single player, single person games where one only focused on the self, one had to be outward and really focus on others and each of your party members. You had to actually give a damn and care....

    When was the last time you said to yourself...

    "My healer has great heals, but she'll be one-shotted without better armor. Oh how about my warrior... Can he really survive four hits if one goes critical before the healer fires his heal? or can my nuker balance between casting speed and damage to not be aggroed and have that window to throw items on to the field?" 

    Then we got into MMORPGs, and it became....

    "Yay! I can focus on just myself, but now I finally joined a guild and we can fight together through the hardest content... that is after waiting 1 - 2 hours for a party if I am a DPS, and automatically having a Tank or Healer become the party leaders.... but who cares? If loot drops... we can all fight over it....

    ....but thank god we no longer need save points!" 

    There are some things I've compiled from what people have told me and from what I believe in, so here is my list needed to make the MMO Genre better: 


    (a) Eliminate Quest NPCs: We aren't kids anymore! The Quest system was there to guide people, but then a point came where the quests were the same and repetitive regardless the NPCs we gathered them from. So rather than have pure quest NPCs, have global quests and a journal. Pick up information from NPCs and encounters and use that to generate the quests that you need to do. This opens up so that one can find quests at night, day, or in strange or nice weather. 

    (b) Immersion... MMORPGs are supposed to be about Immersion. Immersion is destroyed when we can do everything regardless of graphics or condition. Even Dragon Quest IV as a standard RPG had some quests at night, and some things that could only be done during the day. MMORPGs that have this night/day system are special to me. This brings me to crafting...

    (c) Crafting... This has to be useful. The only way to make it useful is to have each player be two classes. One Fighting Type Class, and one crafting type class. No longer allow weapons to drop from enemies but broken weapons that can be broken down into materials and then the player will craft weapons that suit the style of the player. By doing it like this, it means crafting will always be useful including at endgame.

    (d): The leveling system has to go. I rather have a skill-based system and a proficiency system. Every time a game adopts a leveling system, all roads leads to the endgame level-cap maps, further making the rest of the world useless. If I am going to fight Fishmen, then let me simply use my crafting to make weapons and armor that are strong vs fishmen and then combine that with my general skills and attributes tied to my build to fight against them. This means that preparation, skills and gear determine the zone, and not the level.... thus keeping the entire game relevant. This also leads to a game where people are playing the game and not just trying to journey to level cap to see what the end of the game has, get disappointed, and leave. 

    (e): Grouping needs to exist, meaning developers can't be afraid to make content for groups. Rather than force people to actually use a Global. Server-Wide Grouping Function, with instant warping into a dungeon or instance, I rather have an Area Grouping System that ties everyone in a region together and allows more communication in-game with players. While players fight the global (map-wide) event story, they tackle other things as well. 

    Just my ideas...

    The difference between MMORPGs and Tabletop PnP games are that in most MMORPGs, everyone works like a dog to level cap through the path of least resistance, while in Tabletop games, each story has relevance and importance to the player characters. In short, its not about Level... Its about the story itself. 

    When you say "RPG" to me, 
    I say "Tell me a Story"
    and that is what it was supposed to be. :( 

    Not "tell me a story when I cap" 
  • DrDread74DrDread74 Member UncommonPosts: 308

    It isn't possible anymore, you will never like any food as delicious as Chocolate ice cream when you first tried it. You will never enjoy any movie as good as Star Wars when it first came out and touched your soul like an Angel giving birth in pit of your stomach.



    http://baronsofthegalaxy.com/
     An MMO game I created, solo. It's live now and absolutely free to play!
  • rush1984rush1984 Member UncommonPosts: 369
    Tzavok said:
    I have always wanted to play some MMORPG that is all about exploring, finding dungeons without mobs at all, or maybe some but not aggressive, stuff like that.

    Dungeons could be puzzles, deciphering stuff, finding hidden treasures, combat could be here too, but not necessary at all.
    yeah like the old final fantasy dungeons or the ones in lost odyssey was amazing  theres bosses n shit but puzzles too, but teh only thing with that is once you done them you know them and replay value is 0
  • rush1984rush1984 Member UncommonPosts: 369
    Shinami said:
    Right now I find that MMORPGs are in a poor state. 
    A lot of games, but each game has the same two major formulas. 

    When RPGs began, they were supposed to be about problem-solving as a group in tabletop games while also acting out a character. The GM (or DM if its D&D) and his ability to lead the game itself allowed a session to be epic or complete trash. Then eventually RPG video games started being made and the commercials were marketed to D&D players who were treated like third or fourth class citizens; Often outcast and picked on. 

    These games held the stereotypes that in order to be "Roleplaying" there must be selection windows to simulate the tabletop idea of "situation X is happening... so what do we do? Do we fight, use an item, cast a spell, or run away?" and that system allowed a single player to build a party, equip a party, manage a party, and achieve a decent sense of self-worth. I mean c'mon... while most games were single player, single person games where one only focused on the self, one had to be outward and really focus on others and each of your party members. You had to actually give a damn and care....

    When was the last time you said to yourself...

    "My healer has great heals, but she'll be one-shotted without better armor. Oh how about my warrior... Can he really survive four hits if one goes critical before the healer fires his heal? or can my nuker balance between casting speed and damage to not be aggroed and have that window to throw items on to the field?" 

    Then we got into MMORPGs, and it became....

    "Yay! I can focus on just myself, but now I finally joined a guild and we can fight together through the hardest content... that is after waiting 1 - 2 hours for a party if I am a DPS, and automatically having a Tank or Healer become the party leaders.... but who cares? If loot drops... we can all fight over it....

    ....but thank god we no longer need save points!" 

    There are some things I've compiled from what people have told me and from what I believe in, so here is my list needed to make the MMO Genre better: 


    (a) Eliminate Quest NPCs: We aren't kids anymore! The Quest system was there to guide people, but then a point came where the quests were the same and repetitive regardless the NPCs we gathered them from. So rather than have pure quest NPCs, have global quests and a journal. Pick up information from NPCs and encounters and use that to generate the quests that you need to do. This opens up so that one can find quests at night, day, or in strange or nice weather. 

    (b) Immersion... MMORPGs are supposed to be about Immersion. Immersion is destroyed when we can do everything regardless of graphics or condition. Even Dragon Quest IV as a standard RPG had some quests at night, and some things that could only be done during the day. MMORPGs that have this night/day system are special to me. This brings me to crafting...

    (c) Crafting... This has to be useful. The only way to make it useful is to have each player be two classes. One Fighting Type Class, and one crafting type class. No longer allow weapons to drop from enemies but broken weapons that can be broken down into materials and then the player will craft weapons that suit the style of the player. By doing it like this, it means crafting will always be useful including at endgame.

    (d): The leveling system has to go. I rather have a skill-based system and a proficiency system. Every time a game adopts a leveling system, all roads leads to the endgame level-cap maps, further making the rest of the world useless. If I am going to fight Fishmen, then let me simply use my crafting to make weapons and armor that are strong vs fishmen and then combine that with my general skills and attributes tied to my build to fight against them. This means that preparation, skills and gear determine the zone, and not the level.... thus keeping the entire game relevant. This also leads to a game where people are playing the game and not just trying to journey to level cap to see what the end of the game has, get disappointed, and leave. 

    (e): Grouping needs to exist, meaning developers can't be afraid to make content for groups. Rather than force people to actually use a Global. Server-Wide Grouping Function, with instant warping into a dungeon or instance, I rather have an Area Grouping System that ties everyone in a region together and allows more communication in-game with players. While players fight the global (map-wide) event story, they tackle other things as well. 

    Just my ideas...

    The difference between MMORPGs and Tabletop PnP games are that in most MMORPGs, everyone works like a dog to level cap through the path of least resistance, while in Tabletop games, each story has relevance and importance to the player characters. In short, its not about Level... Its about the story itself. 

    When you say "RPG" to me, 
    I say "Tell me a Story"
    and that is what it was supposed to be. :( 

    Not "tell me a story when I cap" 
    this sounds like a game i would sub to :pleased:
    I feel like my genre was hijacked , maybe mmorpgs need to die so that they can be reborn  and hopefully the cod kids will stay away lol

  • CrusadecrusherCrusadecrusher Member UncommonPosts: 283
    When I was 7 legos started to bore me.  I didn't see anything new coming out with legos.  Not once did I ever think hey maybe I'll jump on a forum (well they didn't exist but still would never had thought it) and complain about outgrowing legos.   I realized at the young age of 7 when you outgrow a hobby or no longer enjoy it the mature thing to do is move on and find something you enjoy...just a little story I thought might fit in here...
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,005
    Tzavok said:
    I have always wanted to play some MMORPG that is all about exploring, finding dungeons without mobs at all, or maybe some but not aggressive, stuff like that.

    Dungeons could be puzzles, deciphering stuff, finding hidden treasures, combat could be here too, but not necessary at all.
    The exploration aspect of MMOs has been greatly ignored......After WoW so many felt that we must just want to do prefabricated quests all the time and that is our enjoyment.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    DrDread74 said:

    It isn't possible anymore, you will never like any food as delicious as Chocolate ice cream when you first tried it. You will never enjoy any movie as good as Star Wars when it first came out and touched your soul like an Angel giving birth in pit of your stomach.

    That isn't exactly true. Anything very similar to chocolate icecream might never be the same but there are many other types of flavors that can be just as good.

    With MMOs you just can't remake an older game and think it will be as fun, particularly if the older MMO have been played by everyone. Players that never played the original or something similar can still get the kick but not the veterans.

    People that remember EQ and UO know what I mean, both gave an awesome kick at the time but they were both so different from eachother and the older MMOs (like M59 and the Realm) that the kick they gave was something new.

    So to make a game that feels as good as your first MMO it both need to be good and very different from anything else you tried. That can be done and it have been done already several time. M59, UUO, EQ, DaoC, SWG, GW and Wow all delivered that kick to more then a few peeople, they were just different and fun enough.

    But it isn't easy. My advice would be to look on other pen and paper roleplaying games besides D&D and it it's clones.Translating the mechanics and worlds of games like Runequest, ARS Magica, Cyberpunk, Shadowrun, Vampire and R.I.F.T.S in a competent way would open up new horizons for the genre ( so would a Warhammer fantasy RPG game that actually were based on the original mechanics instead of WoW). Translating tried and good P&P mechanics and worlds is just far easier then to recreate them from scratch which of course is another possibility.

    You can never make a MMO as good as Wow that also uses similar mechanics. Or any of the other great MMOs for that matter. You can however create something better, it just is far from easy.
    Brald_Ironheart
  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    After seeing the polls for the 'Best of '16' and 'Anticipated for '17' I would argue there is more to be at least intrigued about in '17 than there was in '16.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Aelious said:
    After seeing the polls for the 'Best of '16' and 'Anticipated for '17' I would argue there is more to be at least intrigued about in '17 than there was in '16.
    Besides Lineage: Eternal I am not so sure we actually see much good releasing in '17. Most games on my list will take at least another year before releasing and probably 2+.

    There are interesting games in development for certain but most of them havn't even got a release date yet. 
  • MacroPlanetMacroPlanet Member UncommonPosts: 1,084
    Loke666 said:
    DrDread74 said:

    It isn't possible anymore, you will never like any food as delicious as Chocolate ice cream when you first tried it. You will never enjoy any movie as good as Star Wars when it first came out and touched your soul like an Angel giving birth in pit of your stomach.

    That isn't exactly true. Anything very similar to chocolate icecream might never be the same but there are many other types of flavors that can be just as good.

    With MMOs you just can't remake an older game and think it will be as fun, particularly if the older MMO have been played by everyone. Players that never played the original or something similar can still get the kick but not the veterans.

    People that remember EQ and UO know what I mean, both gave an awesome kick at the time but they were both so different from eachother and the older MMOs (like M59 and the Realm) that the kick they gave was something new.

    So to make a game that feels as good as your first MMO it both need to be good and very different from anything else you tried. That can be done and it have been done already several time. M59, UUO, EQ, DaoC, SWG, GW and Wow all delivered that kick to more then a few peeople, they were just different and fun enough.

    But it isn't easy. My advice would be to look on other pen and paper roleplaying games besides D&D and it it's clones.Translating the mechanics and worlds of games like Runequest, ARS Magica, Cyberpunk, Shadowrun, Vampire and R.I.F.T.S in a competent way would open up new horizons for the genre ( so would a Warhammer fantasy RPG game that actually were based on the original mechanics instead of WoW). Translating tried and good P&P mechanics and worlds is just far easier then to recreate them from scratch which of course is another possibility.

    You can never make a MMO as good as Wow that also uses similar mechanics. Or any of the other great MMOs for that matter. You can however create something better, it just is far from easy.
    Well said man. It took quite awhile for the industry to realize that trying to do what WoW did didn't work for most companies and then I feel like we saw the rise of the indie MMO/kickstart scene where developers pitched a unique idea and people backed it accordingly. It just seems to be taking quite awhile for a lot of these games to hit the streets though.
  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 6,051
    I am not exactly sad over this. There are better non-MMO games and, besides, MMOs have marred enough franchises as is(Warhammer Fantasy, Conan etc). Single players with co-op options would have fared MUCH better in this case(but you know...copy WoW).
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,908
    When I was 7 legos started to bore me.  I didn't see anything new coming out with legos.  Not once did I ever think hey maybe I'll jump on a forum (well they didn't exist but still would never had thought it) and complain about outgrowing legos.   I realized at the young age of 7 when you outgrow a hobby or no longer enjoy it the mature thing to do is move on and find something you enjoy...just a little story I thought might fit in here...
    Problem is most of us didn't outgrow MMORPG they were changed.  It's more akin to Bikers feeling out of place because all Bikes were changed to be like cars.  This mostly defeating the purpose of bikes and catering to a bigger market who really want cars.   

    You could say those bikes were financial success but failure as bikes.
  • TatsuyaHirokiTatsuyaHiroki Member UncommonPosts: 108
    I would probably play something similar to Atlantica Online /Silkroad Online, but sadly I have yet to find many games of such that fit the criteria and that isnt Age of Wushu/Wulin

    image

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