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What killed MMORPGs for you

VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472
edited August 2015 in The Pub at MMORPG.COM

I will start:

  • Cash shops / Free to play
  • Instances
  • Fast forward leveling to max level.
  • Factions
  • World of states (killing open world)
  • No more open world pvp or competition
  • Solo play to end game
  • Battle grounds (especially ones with no rewards that make your character stronger in the world)
  • Play every class at the same time (taking away unique roles for groups)
  • No death penalties
  • Nothing to punish you for making mistakes
  • Gear/Item binding
  • Upgrade your class with the click of a button.
  • What used to be 40+ class choices is now like 4.
  • No more healers or support classes.
  • Everyone starts at the same location and zones through the same places till level cap.
  • These caps of you can only do this 2 times per week
  • Releasing unfinished games with bugs that make you feel like a QA tester vs a video game player.
I'll add more as I think of some. But I think this is a good start.
 
 
 
Edit: Adding the things that give more detail on my opinion down below:
 


Comment by goprev - "I'm a little older than you i started playing Lineage 2 in C2 in a X1 server getting to lvl 40 for the second profession was eternal, endless hours of grinding as you may know, anyway a bit of old school mmo nostalgia right there. You pointed out my thoughts on recents games exactly, i think nowadays developers are afraid of frustrating the players ingame by its difficulty or by its system, generally speaking but specially in the mmo genre. Afraid that players won't buy the game or would stop playin it because its too harsh or doesnt have all those perks to simplify the experience. Everything is dumbed down, simple, easy, controlled, with no risk at all.  For example new mmos doesnt really punish you for dying, you may loose time but that's it, no experience lost, no drops, nothing really, what's the point of dying then? You just can walk towards higher level mobs you never saw before get killed because you took no precaution and say "oh i guess they are very strong, ok back to this" there isnt the thrill of unknown, precaution, fear and strategy you had to apply in games where death punishes you. In lineage if i remember well it was 5-20% of experience loss and some items dropped sometimes, that was absolutely huge on high levels! And it created a challenging environement, grudges, if for example a PK killed you while you were grinding you REALLY wanted to kill him back, or just kill a guy who annoys you and hope you'll get enough time to grind off your PK level. The ingame life is non existent, every single interaction you have with other players has a programmed intermediate, there is no continuity, no players storys or very few. Like you said there isnt those sort of myths created around a a player, clan or alliance. In my server Antharas was beaten once or twice and everybody knew the name of the guys who managed it, even if you didnt participate directly into the story of the server you followed it. "Dion castle got sieged now this guys have it, hope their taxe rate isnt higher" that kind of things you know. And getting accepted in a powerful and known clan what a motherfucking honour, i truly miss that feeling! Anyway just to say that i agree with you, games aren't the things that they used to be. I did like WoW though its a fantastic game, but i got bored of it quite fast. I'll try GoW2 i'm actually downloading it right now lol. Nice to see that i'm not the only one having this feeling about games lately. (Sorry if my english isn't great, not my first language!)"
 
 
 

I Quit.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
.............
Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

Post edited by Vardahoth on
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Comments

  • Xion1985Xion1985 Member UncommonPosts: 229

    Ok... Why are you on MMORPG.COM of all places if mmorpg's are dead to you.

    I'll admit that I am not into MMORPG's like I used to be but C'mon...

  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,857

    I'm having a great time with them. I don't make a habit of trying to make a list of bad things about anything in life, or they will be. I'm a half full kind of person though. Anything can be bad if you just put enough effort into it, or vice versa.

     

     

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • booniedog96booniedog96 Member UncommonPosts: 289
    Sorry you feel that way.  BTW, can I has your stuff?
  • FranconsteinFranconstein Member UncommonPosts: 99

    This post has been made many times over many years. At any rate, my answer is still the same: end-game. The fact that their IS end-game, kills an MMO for me.

     

    See, how I like to play videogames is progression. I mean, story progression alongside character and world. Pretty much how good single player games do. If I could play THAT, but with company, that's a great game for me. Now, people somehow decided that MMO meant "play forever and ever until I rot", which not only puts me off, but it spawned all the other negative traits of MMOs. How? Simple, really: players will always consume content faster than the developers can produce it. How did they counter that? Content gating and grinding.

     

    I'd rather have a game that has a beginning and an end, but that allows for lots of people to interact, and that encourages cooperation. Basically what GW2 did at the beginning.

     

     

    “There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.” - Ernest Hemingway

  • cerulean2012cerulean2012 Member UncommonPosts: 492
    Originally posted by Xion1985
    Ok... Why are you on MMORPG.COM of all places if mmorpg's are dead to you. I'll admit that I am not into MMORPG's like I used to be but C'mon...

    Because now he created a thread that will get attention and he can feel special.

    If you are not into MMORPGs anymore then no reason to post on an MMORPG forum.

  • Xion1985Xion1985 Member UncommonPosts: 229
    Originally posted by cerulean2012
    Originally posted by Xion1985
    Ok... Why are you on MMORPG.COM of all places if mmorpg's are dead to you. I'll admit that I am not into MMORPG's like I used to be but C'mon...

    Because now he created a thread that will get attention and he can feel special.

    If you are not into MMORPGs anymore then no reason to post on an MMORPG forum.

    I wasn't trying to say i'm not into MMORPG's at all...  It's just not nearly what it was like 10 years ago for me.  There are still games I enjoy in the genre.

  • LuftwaffenLuftwaffen Member UncommonPosts: 94
    Trammel
  • booniedog96booniedog96 Member UncommonPosts: 289
    I call dibs on whatever he got on ArcheAge, Rift, and Neverwinter.  C'mon breh, you don't need them anymore, you are gonna delete your toons right?  You can't post like this and not permanently delete your toons, otherwise you are trying to blow smoke up our "hee-haw" and that's not nice.  Perma delete and post pics otherwise you are BSing.
  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,485
    Originally posted by Xion1985
    Originally posted by cerulean2012
    Originally posted by Xion1985
    Ok... Why are you on MMORPG.COM of all places if mmorpg's are dead to you. I'll admit that I am not into MMORPG's like I used to be but C'mon...

    Because now he created a thread that will get attention and he can feel special.

    If you are not into MMORPGs anymore then no reason to post on an MMORPG forum.

    I wasn't trying to say i'm not into MMORPG's at all...  It's just not nearly what it was like 10 years ago for me.  There are still games I enjoy in the genre.

    It's not shiny and new anymore. You've seen and done it all.

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • JDis25JDis25 Member RarePosts: 1,347
    Lack of time to play them, unfortunately.
    Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War
    Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
  • KenFisherKenFisher Member UncommonPosts: 5,035

    What killed MMORPGs for me is that I'm not and have never really been an MMORPG gamer.

     

    I played WoW and liked it up to TBC.  From there it started going down-hill with all the "improvements".

    I've played a few others since, mostly F2P.  And at best I end up bored and figure why bother.

     

    That's a lot of the reason why I'm positioning RL2 as a Graphical MUD.  I think I can make a better game by distancing it from all the modern MMORPG designs and going back to basic Multiplayer Hack and Slash PVE RPG.  Public dungeons, no instancing, no endgame, no emphasis on storyline, just kill stuff, craft gear, and grow your character.

     

    No clue if others will like it.  Probably very few considering the retro styling.  But it's something I'd play.  So that what I'm building.


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  When I don't understand, I ask.  Such is not intended as criticism.
  • VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472
    Originally posted by Xion1985
    Ok... Why are you on MMORPG.COM of all places if mmorpg's are dead to you. I'll admit that I am not into MMORPG's like I used to be but C'mon...

    Because if mmorpg's weren't dead to me, I would be there playing them instead of making this post.

     

    Originally posted by ZombieKen
    What killed MMORPGs for me is that I'm not and have never really been an MMORPG gamer.   I played WoW and liked it up to TBC.  From there it started going down-hill with all the "improvements". I've played a few others since, mostly F2P.  And at best I end up bored and figure why bother.   That's a lot of the reason why I'm positioning RL2 as a Graphical MUD.  I think I can make a better game by distancing it from all the modern MMORPG designs and going back to basic Multiplayer Hack and Slash PVE RPG.  Public dungeons, no instancing, no endgame, no emphasis on storyline, just kill stuff, craft gear, and grow your character.   No clue if others will like it.  Probably very few considering the retro styling.  But it's something I'd play.  So that what I'm building.  

    I'm glad to hear it. I post here in breaks between learning programming myself. My motive for programming is also to create a game. My other motive is all the bad software put on the market, for wanting to write code that actually works.

     

    If you need any idea's feel free to pull from my list:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/368197/page/1

     

     

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

  • WizardryWizardry Member EpicPosts: 14,704

    There is no feel of role playing and to make things worse,many devs are even removing the ROLE lmao.

    Instead most every game just feels like a mess of ideas tossed together and call it a mmo.

    If i inherited 500 million tomorrow,there are VERY few Directors/production managers i would hire,all i have seen is sub par work.

    Two things i can't believe developers do.

    1 Hand holding,do they think we are retarded gamer's?

    2 Corner cutting in game design.DO they think we are too stupid to see where they went cheap on us?

     

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472
    Originally posted by Wizardry
    There is no feel of role playing and to make things worse,many devs are even removing the ROLE lmao. Instead most every game just feels like a mess of ideas tossed together and call it a mmo. If i inherited 500 million tomorrow,there are VERY few Directors/production managers i would hire,all i have seen is sub par work. Two things i can't believe developers do. 1 Hand holding,do they think we are retarded gamer's? yes 2 Corner cutting in game design.DO they think we are too stupid to see where they went cheap on us? yes  

    I answered your questions. And given the overwhelming idiotic replies, they are right :(

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

  • KenFisherKenFisher Member UncommonPosts: 5,035
    Originally posted by Vardahoth
     

    I'm glad to hear it. I post here in breaks between learning programming myself. My motive for programming is also to create a game. My other motive is all the bad software put on the market, for wanting to write code that actually works.

     

    If you need any idea's feel free to pull from my list:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/368197/page/1

     

    Got it.  Thank-you thank-you thank-you !!!  I skimmed it, great stuff and the timing is perfect.  I'm going to break it down tomorrow and see what I can use.

     


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  When I don't understand, I ask.  Such is not intended as criticism.
  • BartDaCatBartDaCat Member UncommonPosts: 812

    "What killed MMORPGs for you"

     

    Not a damn thing.

  • majimaji Member UncommonPosts: 2,091

    1) Cash Shops

    "Congratulations for fighting for that sword. Oh, you bought it in the cash shop. Should we quest together? Oh, you are three times as fast as I am because you bought a mount. Look, I found some awesome crafting materials! Wait, I got no space in the bank unless I pay 30$. Great, they added a new class! Oh, I only got space for two characters unless I pay 20$. My DPS? Yes I know it sucks, I didn't buy the DPS potions from the shop. Level together? Sure. You are suddenly 30 levels above me? Oh, you bought the XP potions."

    Basically, the cash shop system makes the developers create  a good game. Then they add in all kinds of artificial problems to make the game suck unless you pay money. The ideal situation is that the game is always fun if you pay some money but also annoying enough that you want to pay more money to solve the problems the devs added. Examples: Limited bank space, reduced movement speed, insane prices for mounts, limited character slots, reduced xp gain, and so on. 

     

    2) Lack of creativity by the developers.

    "We created a new MMORPG. Classes? Well... A warrior, or barbarian or whatever, with a super strike that deals a bit more damage and a whirlwind. We also got a mage or magus or sorcerer with a basic fireball. And a hunter with a pet." 

    Seriously? Just by reading the description of most MMORPGs I fall asleep. Always the same nonsense.

     

    3) Lack of replayability.

    WoW started with six different starting zones, back a decade ago. Six ways to start the game in a new environment with new quests. Most games today have two paths you can follow. If you play more than one hero per faction, you will go through the entire content again. No thanks.

     

    In short, I stick with games you buy once and then just play. The days where I loved MMORPGs are over.

     

     

    Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)

    Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,410
    NCSoft.....

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472
    Originally posted by maji
    1) Cash Shops "Congratulations for fighting for that sword. Oh, you bought it in the cash shop. Should we quest together? Oh, you are three times as fast as I am because you bought a mount. Look, I found some awesome crafting materials! Wait, I got no space in the bank unless I pay 30$. Great, they added a new class! Oh, I only got space for two characters unless I pay 20$. My DPS? Yes I know it sucks, I didn't buy the DPS potions from the shop. Level together? Sure. You are suddenly 30 levels above me? Oh, you bought the XP potions." Basically, the cash shop system makes the developers create  a good game. Then they add in all kinds of artificial problems to make the game suck unless you pay money. The ideal situation is that the game is always fun if you pay some money but also annoying enough that you want to pay more money to solve the problems the devs added. Examples: Limited bank space, reduced movement speed, insane prices for mounts, limited character slots, reduced xp gain, and so on.    2) Lack of creativity by the developers. "We created a new MMORPG. Classes? Well... A warrior, or barbarian or whatever, with a super strike that deals a bit more damage and a whirlwind. We also got a mage or magus or sorcerer with a basic fireball. And a hunter with a pet."  Seriously? Just by reading the description of most MMORPGs I fall asleep. Always the same nonsense.   3) Lack of replayability. WoW started with six different starting zones, back a decade ago. Six ways to start the game in a new environment with new quests. Most games today have two paths you can follow. If you play more than one hero per faction, you will go through the entire content again. No thanks.   In short, I stick with games you buy once and then just play. The days where I loved MMORPGs are over.    

     

    I can agree with this. I personally didn't like WoW (reasons I have already listed at beginning of this thread). But I agree with your post here.

     

    Lineage 2 was the same way (as far as different starting locations). It had 5 different starting towns and you wouldn't even see or meet up with other races until around level 20 or so (about a month grind). Each had their own quests to help you with gear and stuff. Exp was minimal and grind gave better exp than quests (but repeatable quests for collecting monster quest items xquantity were worth picking up), groups in areas requiring a group gave the best exp and drops.

     

    Now Lineage 2 has every race start in the same town, fast forward to level cap with cash shop items, and get best gear through cash shop. /end before ranting paragraphs I have already done before.

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

  • VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472
    Originally posted by Arglebargle
    NCSoft.....

    LoL this post is about what killed mmorpg's. Not what killed Lineage 2. Although I agree with you that I will never play another game by this company. They are prime example for doing everything that goes against everything they say they will do.

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

  • VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472
    Originally posted by ZombieKen
    Originally posted by Vardahoth
     

    I'm glad to hear it. I post here in breaks between learning programming myself. My motive for programming is also to create a game. My other motive is all the bad software put on the market, for wanting to write code that actually works.

     

    If you need any idea's feel free to pull from my list:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/368197/page/1

     

    Got it.  Thank-you thank-you thank-you !!!  I skimmed it, great stuff and the timing is perfect.  I'm going to break it down tomorrow and see what I can use.

     

    No problem, if you ever want to chat and pick my brain, feel free to pm me. My mmorpg experience is in my sig below.

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 7,644

    Another sad soul that looks for company in his miserable life without a MMORPG to play...

    Nothing killed MMORPGs for me, still enjoy several of them.

    And I may have a hint about what killed them for you... you refused to evolve and remained stuck in the past. I'm definitely a way more "oldtime" gamer than you, I started computer RPGs with the Ultima series in the early 80s when you were not even born yet, and I still enjoy actual games and also newer games when they come out.

    I also went to school uphill in a freezing snow blizzard (true story), and it's not an experience I want to repeat myself or that I wish for my kids, 4 wheel drive and air conditioning for the win.

    Nostalgia is a powerful blinder that stops people from enjoying new experiences.

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 4K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,514

    Claim oldschool status. Check.

    Compromise. Check.

    Without valid argument or logic, goto nostalgia fallacy.

    check!!!


  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Another sad soul that looks for company in his miserable life without a MMORPG to play... Nothing killed MMORPGs for me, still enjoy several of them. And I may have a hint about what killed them for you... you refused to evolve and remained stuck in the past. I'm definitely a way more "oldtime" gamer than you, I started computer RPGs with the Ultima series in the early 80s when you were not even born yet, and I still enjoy actual games and also newer games when they come out. I also went to school uphill in a freezing snow blizzard (true story), and it's not an experience I want to repeat myself or that I wish for my kids, 4 wheel drive and air conditioning for the win. Nostalgia is a powerful blinder that stops people from enjoying new experiences.

    +1 , When you find that all the new games just don't appeal anymore its because you have moved on as a gamer and you just don't want to admit it to yourself.  As a thought experiment,  Imagine playing a good AAA game from early 2000 and a good AAA game from 2015 side by side and imagine the game from 2000 had just been released, Whats better now that nostalgia does not exist?

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • AntiquatedAntiquated Member RarePosts: 1,415

    Time and Overexposure. "Real Life".

    I once wasted the a full-time work week, every week, on gaming. Broke the habit, moved on to the next stage, and published three books (so far).

    Try it. It's amazing what you can accomplish when freed of your self-imposed ball and chain. Your doctor, your body, your wrists, and your sciatic nerves will all thank you for it.

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