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Beta's are not Demo's

13

Comments

  • anarchyartanarchyart Member Posts: 5,378



    Originally posted by Fadeus




    Originally posted by Copeland
    /sarcasm on

    Ok you guys are right. Beta's are all for hype. They want all the kids talking about the game thats why they send you a Non-Disclosure Act. It's all just a rouse - they really want you to talk.
    You're right BETA's are a complete game thats why its LIVE! YEP YEP Beta's are actually an early release for the "special" kids so they can brag to their respective friends that they were there FIRST!
    Yes after Alpha testing the game is complete. We all know that a game only takes a year to develop so after alpha its a finished product!
    /sarcasm off



    Grow up. For someone your age you sure have a hard time acting like an adult, or talking like one for that matter.


    Fadeus, I have agreed with every syllable you have ever commited to print....except in this thread.

    Cope is exactly and precisely right with his original post. Beta's are NOT freaking demos! And people who bash beta's in any way are doing nothing for the game, the genre or the community in general.

    When you're beta testing, you are supposed to be helping the developers by crunching the game and reporting bugs and participating in the forums and making suggestions to help the game with your valuable time. Period.

    Going on forums and reporting negatively on a "beta" hurts the people who are trying to make the game. Dev's and coders and testers work 23 hour days in some cases: their blood sweat and tears are all over these games and their lifes blood is pumping through that data. Bashing the game while it is still in beta is unintelligent, ignorant and insensitive to human beings whos livelyhood may rely on whether said game is a success or a failure.

    I'm sorry but that's how it is and if you are beta testing a game you are supposed to be putting effort into HELPING the game not by fooking dissing it on imafreakinbedwettingnoob.com!

    image
  • ScarisScaris Member UncommonPosts: 5,332


    Originally posted by anarchyart
    Originally posted by Fadeus Originally posted by Copeland/sarcasm on Ok you guys are right. Beta's are all for hype. They want all the kids talking about the game thats why they send you a Non-Disclosure Act. It's all just a rouse - they really want you to talk.
    You're right BETA's are a complete game thats why its LIVE! YEP YEP Beta's are actually an early release for the "special" kids so they can brag to their respective friends that they were there FIRST!
    Yes after Alpha testing the game is complete. We all know that a game only takes a year to develop so after alpha its a finished product!
    /sarcasm off
    Grow up. For someone your age you sure have a hard time acting like an adult, or talking like one for that matter.
    Fadeus, I have agreed with every syllable you have ever commited to print....except in this thread.
    Cope is exactly and precisely right with his original post. Beta's are NOT freaking demos! And people who bash beta's in any way are doing nothing for the game, the genre or the community in general.
    When you're beta testing, you are supposed to be helping the developers by crunching the game and reporting bugs and participating in the forums and making suggestions to help the game with your valuable time. Period.
    Going on forums and reporting negatively on a "beta" hurts the people who are trying to make the game. Dev's and coders and testers work 23 hour days in some cases: their blood sweat and tears are all over these games and their lifes blood is pumping through that data. Bashing the game while it is still in beta is unintelligent, ignorant and insensitive to human beings whos livelyhood may rely on whether said game is a success or a failure.
    I'm sorry but that's how it is and if you are beta testing a game you are supposed to be putting effort into HELPING the game not by fooking dissing it on imafreakinbedwettingnoob.com!

    I don't think you really read my original post. If you did maybe you missed some key elements. Most of my post was not specifically saying that Beta's are demos. I go into alot of details, all I can say is read it again, if you still disagree then you do, but no copeland is not correct with his blanket statements. His statements do have merit however. But Copeland didn't want to discuss it. He wanted to drop it in like a bomb, praise the people that think he is great and right and put his nose up at anyone that disagrees and tell them there is no discussion, he is right and we are wrong.

    Really though, I don't see how you could have really of read my original post and said what you just did to me. Nowhere in what I said did I come across as supportive of " fooking dissing it on imafreakinbedwettingnoob.com!".

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • MeskorMeskor Member Posts: 28

     

    Copeland = IrthOnline insider making excuses for a bad Beta.

     

  • ScarisScaris Member UncommonPosts: 5,332


    Originally posted by Meskor

    Copeland = IrthOnline insider making excuses for a bad Beta.

    Pretty much...

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • anarchyartanarchyart Member Posts: 5,378

    I did read you original post Fadeus, and I mostly agree with you. But it comes down to copes original post that people shouldn't be bashing beta's. I didn't mean that you were dissing the game on imafreakinbedwettingnoob.com (i'm gonna buy that domain....lol) just that other's shouldnt be.

    It's your contention that beta is a 98% finished product. I won't split hairs but mostly I do agree with you. However we all know that even a year after release sometimes things are added that were supposed to be in at release, even in the best planned games. In beta we all know that often we are playing games that have MAJOR systems still not in place. But yes, in a perfect world the beta should be 90% or more finished.

    That having been said, people STILL shouldn't be bashing the game, especially when they are a guest employee essentially. That's my humble opinion, just think if it was YOUR game you were making and a bunch of rotten kids were just bashing it mercilessly on some forums when you invited them to come test it before it was done. No seriously, think of it that way for a minute.

    Your not wrong Fadeus, and Cope might have been a bit short with some of the replys, but his original post is a real gem and he hit some nails on the noggin.

    image
  • StankRugStankRug Member Posts: 5



    Originally posted by anarchyart

     but his original post is a real gem and he hit some nails on the noggin.



    He missed the nail by about a mile.
  • RossalisRossalis Member Posts: 29



    Originally posted by Copeland

    Well i expected the childrens flames. Exactly as i expected too LOL. But i'm glad to see theres a large portion of this community that has a good grasp of what TESTING means. Hopefully the kids will think about it a bit and start to understand in time. I know we'll have to deal with it forever but every once in a while we have to educate the community about what is expected from them.




    Yessiree, this cope fella sure is a genius.  He claims to have looked up "Beta" in the Webster dictionary and he found "testing".  And now he's going to educate us all.  We will soon have his IQ.  image
  • RammurRammur Member Posts: 575
    Open beta is normally basically the demo stage its open to see how much the general public likes about the game open beta pretty much determines how possible the player base will be.
  • RossalisRossalis Member Posts: 29



    Originally posted by Rammur
    Open beta is normally basically the demo stage its open to see how much the general public likes about the game open beta pretty much determines how possible the player base will be.


    You are absolutely correct.  Everyone seems to know this except for this cope genius.  Sounds like he's just making excuses for a Beta that's crappy.
  • Tanis45Tanis45 Member Posts: 4



    Originally posted by Rossalis

    You are absolutely correct.  Everyone seems to know this except for this cope genius.  Sounds like he's just making excuses for a Beta that's crappy.



    Based on his comments and responses on various threads, he seems to be making a personal hobby of making people angry.
  • RazorbackRazorback Member Posts: 5,253



    Originally posted by Jorev



    Originally posted by Xira

    If the MMORPG company treates the beta as a demo, why shouldn't we?


    True.

    And the real problem is not that players treat beta's as demo's, but that game companies rely on free labor to beta their product which is why so many games are released unfinished and buggy.

    You get what you pay for.



    HOLY CR4P Jorev posted something I agree with image

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    "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
    http://purepwnage.com
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  • ElnatorElnator Member Posts: 6,077


    Originally posted by Razorback
    Originally posted by Jorev
    Originally posted by Xira
    If the MMORPG company treates the beta as a demo, why shouldn't we?
    True.
    And the real problem is not that players treat beta's as demo's, but that game companies rely on free labor to beta their product which is why so many games are released unfinished and buggy.
    You get what you pay for.HOLY CR4P Jorev posted something I agree with image

    I somewhat agree with the free labor statement but the problem that most small MMO publishers have is there is no way they can pay enough testers to put a game that is going to support thousands of simultaneous players through it's paces. Hell, even large MMO makers can't. Thus they have open and closed public betas.

    And public betas are not why so many games get released "unfinished and buggy" because 99% of the time they're released with pre-existing bugs that were REPORTED during Beta. They get released buggy because they don't address the issues that their beta testers bring to them.

    Every game I have ever beta'd has released with bugs. And, interestingly, 99% of the bugs they release with are bugs that were reported to them during Beta Testing. Games are released "Buggy" because marketting departments make the decision on when the game releases, not the devs.

    Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
    Sig image Pending
    Still in: A couple Betas

  • Maverick827Maverick827 Member Posts: 71

    Beta's are demo's to some.  Making judgements off of bugs/lag/etc from a beta is stupid.  If you don't like the core gameplay or design...well, 99% of the time it's not going to change drastically after release.

  • IvanRashnuIvanRashnu Member Posts: 178

    There's been enough posts which defined the "beta" word meaning to test or "beta" word meaning to be a demo.

    I can agree with original poster that beta means testing, as I see already it called "open beta testing" in some other forums. So whoever signs up for beta is meant to test it and give feedbacks suggestions regarding their experience in that stage of the game. They're also meant to report the bugs. Therefore I think it should have the same meaning as "test" does. Good point at there, original poster.

    On the other hand, What Fadeus and some other posters are trying to point out is how this "beta" word is regarded by most of people and game companies nowadays. They're also right according to what they think, as most of people regard "beta" as a kind of "debate" of the game and a demo of it and game companies tend to see it as a demo. So I can say it should be like original poster defined, however it's regarded as a presentation to the game public. I complain about the point which anarchyart do. I don't understand the mentality of people who bash the game into ground owing to its defects while beta stage goes. This is hilarious and annoying on another side. At least for the sake of "beta" work, you're expected to give constructive comments critism and suggestions about the game.

    As for Irth Online, Magic Hat is a far smaller company when compared to the companies mentioned previously in this thread like SOE or Blizzard. It's obvious to see that they want to form the game with community, they're making the game with testers. Acceptable or not, true or not, but they want so and they're doing so. You certainly face with more defects in the game than you probably do in other large companies' games. It's Irth Online Dev Team's choice, participate or not, but choices deserve respect, eh?
    I'm understanding their choice and I support them, I'll try to help as much as I can even though I can't run it properly at the moment. I'm not a fanboy of that game, I'm not creating excuses for Irth Online beta stage here. All I want to say is it's their choice to make the game with community it has.

    Last word is the complaints about the manner original poster is displaying towards some people. Those some people you labelled as "flamer kids" expressed their own opinions in this thread at first as you did. They discussed the definations you made. I'm greatly impressed by those long posts with an acceptable English and well-explained opposite thoughts, as they're not usual and normal posts from the ones who can be labelled as "flamer kids". But unfortunately, you're doing the same thing from what we're used to see from that kind of people, harrassing people, not backing up your earlier statement, insulting and such. Why to look down on people like that although they bothered to give their own opinions in an acceptable way at first? It's sad to see one poster said "it's right for eliteism". When you have elite rank, you're not given the right to look down on people, harrasing them, bashing game into ground or such. Personally I decide who is elite or not on this forum according to my own criterions, not by looking their rank in the forum. Unfortunately there's someone in this forum who don't deserve that word at all...

    Regards

    ...

  • zoey121zoey121 Member Posts: 926

     Participated in many betas some were done well others were, well flopped. If companies are going to give me a chance to test run products before i dump funds into that game, yes i will try it.

     Also if i manage a closed beta and like the over all concept of the product i will do my best to send in

    /bug reports participate on forums and make suggestions.

     What i have found , is upon release except for a few most are dismal and still get pushed to live when they are not ready. Beta folks get blamed for the bugs, when in fact the game was pushed live to early.

     I can think of one big name here that a week before open beta ended they pushed all the elete professions to beta without due course of proper testing.

      As far as "us miss understanding them" concept it is simple, you release a buggy concept people will talk, after having a few bad releases folks, are more then likely not to be burned next time.

      As far as beta goes , free testers, some actually submit bug reports, all in all not a too bad of deal for developers and or for the gamers........

  • ScarisScaris Member UncommonPosts: 5,332


    Originally posted by IvanRashnu
    There's been enough posts which defined the "beta" word meaning to test or "beta" word meaning to be a demo.I can agree with original poster that beta means testing, as I see already it called "open beta testing" in some other forums. So whoever signs up for beta is meant to test it and give feedbacks suggestions regarding their experience in that stage of the game. They're also meant to report the bugs. Therefore I think it should have the same meaning as "test" does. Good point at there, original poster.On the other hand, What Fadeus and some other posters are trying to point out is how this "beta" word is regarded by most of people and game companies nowadays. They're also right according to what they think, as most of people regard "beta" as a kind of "debate" of the game and a demo of it and game companies tend to see it as a demo. So I can say it should be like original poster defined, however it's regarded as a presentation to the game public. I complain about the point which anarchyart do. I don't understand the mentality of people who bash the game into ground owing to its defects while beta stage goes. This is hilarious and annoying on another side. At least for the sake of "beta" work, you're expected to give constructive comments critism and suggestions about the game.As for Irth Online, Magic Hat is a far smaller company when compared to the companies mentioned previously in this thread like SOE or Blizzard. It's obvious to see that they want to form the game with community, they're making the game with testers. Acceptable or not, true or not, but they want so and they're doing so. You certainly face with more defects in the game than you probably do in other large companies' games. It's Irth Online Dev Team's choice, participate or not, but choices deserve respect, eh?
    I'm understanding their choice and I support them, I'll try to help as much as I can even though I can't run it properly at the moment. I'm not a fanboy of that game, I'm not creating excuses for Irth Online beta stage here. All I want to say is it's their choice to make the game with community it has.Last word is the complaints about the manner original poster is displaying towards some people. Those some people you labelled as "flamer kids" expressed their own opinions in this thread at first as you did. They discussed the definations you made. I'm greatly impressed by those long posts with an acceptable English and well-explained opposite thoughts, as they're not usual and normal posts from the ones who can be labelled as "flamer kids". But unfortunately, you're doing the same thing from what we're used to see from that kind of people, harrassing people, not backing up your earlier statement, insulting and such. Why to look down on people like that although they bothered to give their own opinions in an acceptable way at first? It's sad to see one poster said "it's right for eliteism". When you have elite rank, you're not given the right to look down on people, harrasing them, bashing game into ground or such. Personally I decide who is elite or not on this forum according to my own criterions, not by looking their rank in the forum. Unfortunately there's someone in this forum who don't deserve that word at all...Regards


    Very good post Ivan!

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • ianubisiianubisi Member Posts: 4,201

    It's a shame this topic has devolved into a shoutfest, as most topics beyond 20 posts tend to.

  • ScarisScaris Member UncommonPosts: 5,332


    Originally posted by ianubisi
    It's a shame this topic has devolved into a shoutfest, as most topics beyond 20 posts tend to.


    A shoutfest? The OP himself decided that anyone that wasn't going to agree with him was just wrong without any supporting statements. The OP was the one that started devalidating posts by calling people kids and so on and trying to make their age an issue in it.

    The thread was lost from the start, and then you don't even give Ivan credit for his good post, how was that a shoutfest?

    - Scaris

    "What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World

  • ianubisiianubisi Member Posts: 4,201


    Originally posted by Fadeus

    The thread was lost from the start, and then you don't even give Ivan credit for his good post, how was that a shoutfest?

    I cannot explain it any better than you did yourself just now.

  • IvanRashnuIvanRashnu Member Posts: 178

    I don't know what shoutfest mean, my dictionary doesn't include that word. Apparently it was word said for this lost topic. If it was not addressed at my post, I can agree with ianubisi this topic is lost, it was lost from the beginning. By the way I don't need anyone's credit

    ...

  • CreollinkCreollink Member Posts: 12

    "Less cumbersome graphics"...

    Copeland is pretending to know what he's talking about.  Obviously, he doesn't.

  • CopelandCopeland Member Posts: 1,955


    Originally posted by Creollink
    "Less cumbersome graphics"...
    Copeland is pretending to know what he's talking about. Obviously, he doesn't.

    Keep trolling. Everyone that has ever beta tested knows that they use less cumbersome graphics. Have you ever even done a beta? But thanks for bumping the thread :)

  • IvanRashnuIvanRashnu Member Posts: 178


    Originally posted by Copeland
    Originally posted by Creollink
    "Less cumbersome graphics"...
    Copeland is pretending to know what he's talking about. Obviously, he doesn't.

    Keep trolling. Everyone that has ever beta tested knows that they use less cumbersome graphics. Have you ever even done a beta? But thanks for bumping the thread :)


    They will troll no matter what your thoughts are. As far as I can see, they're trolling for the sake of being against you, as their posts showed a great deal of disapprovement about your attitudes towards the rest. I think they're right this time, because you ignored their good posts (rare to see) in this thread. I see nothing's wrong with ignoring yours, so they're doing so. This thread will be nothing except Copeland Versus A group of people who were annoyed by Copeland's manners

    ...

  • DisruptDisrupt Member Posts: 296

    lol, if you had no interest in the game, why would you sign up for it. "i feel its my civic duty to find bugs and report them like i do criminals" cmon, the game is a BETA to test it, sure its nice to help the devs out by finding bugs and reporting them, but 99% of the people who apply, think the game looks good.

    image

  • zethcarnzethcarn Member UncommonPosts: 1,558
    you have valid points Copeland but Betas are still Demos in the sense that the company task a BIG risk by releasing their unfinished product to the public eye for critism.  There is no way to police potential customers for using beta for whatever they desire to use it for.
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