Chris Roberts hires his brother and wife as executives

Naevius

Originally posted by Erillion Those "amateurs" - as you call them - are so "unsuccessful" that EVERY SINGLE DAY a few THOUSAND new people pledge for the Star Citizen project.

There is a sucker born every minute.

Mensur

This is getting out of control.. 

jcrg99

Originally posted by Erillion

And if you say "Bringing in more new backers is bad ... " ... on what planet do you usually live ? EVERY marketing departement in EVERY company will ask you that question if you state that bringing in new customers is a BAD thing !

Bringing new customers to buy a finished product that fits with their wishes... Every company.

Bringing new customers to buy an unfinished product targeted to a niche and trying to milk them even more, making they wait more and so on... every company that are in grave today or in the future.

Frontier should be dumb then? Of not opening their floodgates, taking advantage of the vibe, selling ships and low-entry packages earlier?

It's just a coincidence that they are decades in the niche market, while Roberts managed to do not sustain 3 past companies in just about 10 years?

Rusque

Originally posted by jcrg99

Originally posted by Thorkune

I think a large part of fanboyism is that once people have sunk a certain amount of money into something they just enter a state of denial.  

 

Ok... My answer will be even shorter then... This /

Fanboys destroy games. Primarily the games they claim to love. Nothing is more disastrous for an idea or product than sycophants.

CrazKanuk

Originally posted by jcrg99

Originally posted by Erillion

Originally posted by jcrg99

I am going to research how many multi-millionary companies that trade globally and survived in the long term, puts as the VP of Marketing fully responsible for all the plans and actions, sales, communication, PR, etc., someone with a degree that never worked before not even as a trainee...

Apple (highest market value of ANY company, worldwide)

Steve Jobs (College drop-out, travelled India to learn Zen instead of working)

 

Have fun

snip...

tl;dr:

There are two options at this point:

1-) Keep the amateurs, praise them, applaud them = flop

2-) Bring true professionals and let them (Sandi/Ben), you know, in some trainee position that would be the only role that they would be capable to assume in any serious company not managed by Chris Roberts... stop the ships sales and have the balls to show that the company is not going to ignore that people can end disappointed, and in other words, CARE with the customer, not pushing them absurdly due his passion to make crazy things, or letting other people that they are just focusing the project to milk the whales, as well as acknowledging the reality of how gamers react and the huge weight that the long wait + cash grabbing will give to them and to all people around (target public) in how they look to the game in the end, thinking in the consequences of all that for their future, remembering that they can't attract too much more than a niche (Feet in the ground), because or they ruin everything, making "a game for the masses", that the masses never will play anyway and only will piss more the hardcore ones, and even if the hype attracts more people now, that is TERRIBLE, because they are putting more and more people in the "Torture Machine" of the long wait, disappointments, delays, cash grabbing, implemented things that weren't like the way that they dreamed, etc. etc.

Stop ship sales.

If they do that, this project MAY have find the time to break, before the railroad ends and the train wreck. May have. Definitely they already took too long to shut down, but maybe, as there are many years yet until release, people would kind of forget until there and slowly, from now until release, the impression would be better of general people about them, exactly because they stopped the cash grabbing.

Otherwise, keeping that until near of day one or for much more time, will be impossible to the break works.

The marketing is going to kill this game. No matter what games come out. And then, when you try to figure out WHY? The reason is very easy to see... just look to the previous experiences of the people in charge of these matters in CIG... oh wait... they don't have any. Sure, even professionals can be short-sighted. But better to try another that keep people that is not just short-sighted, but also arrogant (with any customer that do not praise them as gods or criticize too much their areas), with celebrity complex, and proven already in this project many many times, that despite flaws, they never learned from those flaws.

They can keep saying "Oh, but we work hard" forever! They simply does not have the skills and capabilities for the job. Probably someone else wouldn't need to work so hard as them and would get much better results for the whole, for their financials, for the image of the company and for the gamers... a two-way road street... a balance were everyone wins, not just CR pockets and fanboys who think that the huge success of this project, is if CR be able to buy a new airplane for his personal collection.

 

 

You mention niche a lot and, for all intents and purposes it is a niche. However, SC has nearly double the amount of pre-order backers than EVE Online has subscribers. It has double the number of backers as Elite: Dangerous has sales to date. SC is an anomaly. Period. An amateur marketer is NOT going to derail that. If she had any impact whatsoever on the reception of the product. If she did then she must have a hell of a lot of natural talent or more experience with marketing that what you might think. The thing about marketing of digital products is that it has much less to do with experience in marketing fundamentals and more about experience with marketing online. There are kids on YouTube making millions of dollars a year because they are savvy online marketers, not because they have a marketing degree. So it's really hard to comment on someone based on experience or education. Maybe she DID have something to do with that success. If that's the case then she looks like a genius.

 

Marketing isn't likely to kill this game, either. There are plenty of detractors but it already has more interest than any other space sim today. As mentioned, it's an anomaly, much like WoW. So saying that continuing to sell ships is going to kill the game is like saying that WoW is dead. Also, they will continue to sell ships because in order to deliver the game they need more money (thanks scope creep). The monthly burn on the company is probably pretty massive at this point. Throw in the costs of running 3 offices and BAM! Your $85 million isn't looking like too much any more. 

 

Finally, your make a lot of assertions without any sort of factual evidence to back it up. The last one is possibly the most hilarious. If you truly believe that Chris Roberts' goal is to get filthy, stinking rich off this and then just make a run for it, you're delusional. That's why the cash grab idea does't fly. Fact: Chris Roberts has been trying to make this game for DECADES!!! It's not likely that you've had that sort of passion, but try to imagine if you MAYBE had that passion about something for a couple years even. You are willing to sacrifice. When you are close to something that you've envisioned for nearly your entire professional life, you're likely to give up almost anything. I wouldn't be surprised if Chris Roberts would give up his left nut to guarantee that the game ships. He'd probably give up any other appendage too. Maybe not his.... you know... but do you blame him? Have you seen his wife? Anyway, the point is that Chris is not likely to get rich off the game. Also, I don't think he's going to be spending money recklessly. The primary focus is likely on delivering the game. What will become of it? I don't know, but I know we'll see something. Some time. Maybe 2016? 2017? 

Rollgunner

Originally posted by Panther2103
I mean it is his company. He can do whatever he wants with recruitment as long as it's not affecting the games release or development that he promised. 

Three legalese words : Appearance of Impropriety.

Even if hiring your wife and brother is a clear benefit to your company, the fact that you engaged in nepotism generates doubt in the mind of the average person (who doesn't read the article), so it is often the *wrong* business choice as it can jeopardize your credibility.

Nanfoodle

As a gamer there are many things that get me upset but its never been the business end of things unless I am getting bad customer service. This to me seems like a silly thing to get upset about. I would sooner get ticked at the $300-400 space ships they keep selling. Their marketing team seems to be doing well, they raised something like 70 mill and have given little proof its being spent wisely. Fact is, no one has any proof here that his family members he has hired are not qualified for the job, matter of fact you can go back to Chris Robert and question his qualifications, that would be more fitting. 

JonBonJawa

Originally posted by Rollgunner

Originally posted by Panther2103
I mean it is his company. He can do whatever he wants with recruitment as long as it's not affecting the games release or development that he promised. 

Three legalese words : Appearance of Impropriety.

Even if hiring your wife and brother is a clear benefit to your company, the fact that you engaged in nepotism generates doubt in the mind of the average person (who doesn't read the article), so it is often the *wrong* business choice as it can jeopardize your credibility.

This really is the most desparate pathetic attempt to badmouth SC ever.

Erin and Chris Roberts have been making games together since over two decades ago,

What´s next, critcising the Wachowski Brothers for working together for years? The Cohen brothers maybe?

Or hey how about the Olsen Twins.

This thread is a disgrace even for the most vile SC hating troll and I have reported this garbage so some mod can put it out of its misery.

 

jcrg99

Originally posted by CrazKanuk

You mention niche a lot and, for all intents and purposes it is a niche. However, SC has nearly double the amount of pre-order backers than EVE Online has subscribers. It has double the number of backers as Elite: Dangerous has sales to date. SC is an anomaly. Period.

Tell me. What basis do you have to give such absolute confirmation? Don't tell me that it's just the counter in their page. That is a very weak evidence that kind of contradicts many of their other stats. 

Maybe she DID have something to do with that success. If that's the case then she looks like a genius.

No. There are just an average of 5k to 10k people , the same excited from the beginning, paying again and again thousands of dollars. The retention level is a shame, and these people are, in general, excited as the game is "one of the kind", dreaming about its bullets for decades now. Not really a merit of her here. It's the CIC public, in general... you know... those people who waited for a long time for a new Wing Commander, or a new Freelancer. That's it (in general). Thousands more jumped in the bandwagon (my guesses they around 150k individuals who pledged today). But if that this case 140k ar non-fans and have not been retained in any form, or growing in any form. To be fair, actually playing and looking to their bs, is more like 1 to 2k people in the peak moments.

 

 Marketing isn't likely to kill this game, either.

You have no idea. If you list a Top-5, Marketing probably will be number 1 or 2, responsible to kill games. It only decreases his effect (his bad effect) when the public is larger, not a niche. Keep dreaming about those 900k. They are phantoms, they don't exist. Are the product of a few excited group, doing that thing grow up.

As mentioned, it's an anomaly, much like WoW. So saying that continuing to sell ships is going to kill the game is like saying that WoW is dead.

You can't be serious. Tell me that you made a joke.

Also, they will continue to sell ships because in order to deliver the game they need more money (thanks scope creep). 

No. They don't. Chris Roberts said that they don't. And that not all the thigns are going to come in the day one. And also told that worked (or effectively produce something) based in the income. Well... that's not our deal. He should put the money to accelerate the production. That was the deal. Not working based in "monthly income".

The monthly burn on the company is probably pretty massive at this point. Throw in the costs of running 3 offices and BAM! Your $85 million isn't looking like too much any more. 

 Meh! The game can be made by 20. Putting more visual meh in the game or scenes in SQ42, we can bet not beyond 40. Any above that is just wasted money due total incompetence.

Finally, your make a lot of assertions without any sort of factual evidence to back it up.

I checked deeply this project from the beginning to see that things does not fit with each other. I am not an idiot that would believe in a counter of a company that have the interest to claim that is popular, exactly to motivate their own whales to pay more and to defend them as doing the "right thing", because that brings to them more money.

The last one is possibly the most hilarious. If you truly believe that Chris Roberts' goal is to get filthy, stinking rich off this and then just make a run for it, you're delusional. That's why the cash grab idea does't fly. Fact: Chris Roberts has been trying to make this game for DECADES!!!

That's what he said. But probably he already know that won't be able to, won't be able to please people, gave up, and decided to milk more as I can to have a better retirement, or you know... he does not deny that still have dreams in the Movies.

It's not likely that you've had that sort of passion, but try to imagine if you MAYBE had that passion about something for a couple years even. You are willing to sacrifice. When you are close to something that you've envisioned for nearly your entire professional life, you're likely to give up almost anything.

That's what you fail to see... Close? Tell me that was a joke again. He is close of a disaster. That is what he is close. And he is not dumb. He is kind of coward. Do not make sacrifices with his pocket, unnecessarily. He quit. The ship sales is a proof that he is not looking in the long term retention necessary.

Don't worry. Some kind of game will come out one day and I am sure that you will love it. But it will be a disaster. Caused by their marketing approach. And always have a few people that love games that the huge majority of the world considers a disaster. Good luck with the niche inside the niche inside the niche inside the niche. The ship prices and frequency of ship sales and jpeg sales, after release will increase a lot.

Rollgunner

Originally posted by JonBonJawa

Originally posted by Rollgunner

Originally posted by Panther2103
I mean it is his company. He can do whatever he wants with recruitment as long as it's not affecting the games release or development that he promised. 

Three legalese words : Appearance of Impropriety.

Even if hiring your wife and brother is a clear benefit to your company, the fact that you engaged in nepotism generates doubt in the mind of the average person (who doesn't read the article), so it is often the *wrong* business choice as it can jeopardize your credibility.

This really is the most desparate pathetic attempt to badmouth SC ever.

Erin and Chris Roberts have been making games together since over two decades ago,

What´s next, critcising the Wachowski Brothers for working together for years? The Cohen brothers maybe?

Or hey how about the Olsen Twins.

This thread is a disgrace even for the most vile SC hating troll and I have reported this garbage so some mod can put it out of its misery.

 

Hey, let's go to Wikipedia !

Appearance of Impropriety: The Appearance of Impropriety is a phrase referring to a situation which to a layperson without knowledge of the specific circumstances might seem to raise ethics questions. For instance, although a person might regularly and reliably collect money for her employer in her personal wallet and later give it to her employer, her putting it in her personal wallet may appear improper and give rise to suspicion, etc. It is common business practice to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.

Wait! what was that last sentence again?

It is common business practice to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.

Not a desperate or pathetic attempt to badmouth anyone, just a fact that you seem to disagree with.

CrazKanuk

Originally posted by jcrg99

Originally posted by CrazKanuk

You mention niche a lot and, for all intents and purposes it is a niche. However, SC has nearly double the amount of pre-order backers than EVE Online has subscribers. It has double the number of backers as Elite: Dangerous has sales to date. SC is an anomaly. Period.

Tell me. What basis do you have to give such absolute confirmation? Don't tell me that it's just the counter in their page. That is a very weak evidence that kind of contradicts many of their other stats.

No, I read an article somewhere. Wish I had the link. Either way, yeah, there are numbers on their site. Cool. Why does 1 million backers seem "off" to you? Their KS campaign had an average spend across users of around $65. If they had 1 million backers, that would put the average spend at around $85 which is actually showing an increase (expected since some people will be adding on ships). However, there are others who simply sticj with their initial pledge. Your assumption is that there are a small number of people contributing to their $85000000. That is a great deal of money to make up and I don't think that 1 million pledges is unreasonable. If you have evidence of these contradictions, please feel free to offer them up. 

Maybe she DID have something to do with that success. If that's the case then she looks like a genius.

No. There are just an average of 5k to 10k people , the same excited from the beginning, paying again and again thousands of dollars. The retention level is a shame, and these people are, in general, excited as the game is "one of the kind", dreaming about its bullets for decades now. Not really a merit of her here. It's the CIC public, in general... you know... those people who waited for a long time for a new Wing Commander, or a new Freelancer. That's it (in general). Thousands more jumped in the bandwagon (my guesses they around 150k individuals who pledged today). But if that this case 140k ar non-fans and have not been retained in any form, or growing in any form. To be fair, actually playing and looking to their bs, is more like 1 to 2k people in the peak moments.

 

Sorry, but this is high on speculation and low on any real fact. See, back in April there was a guy who bought all the ships and the cost was $22,500. If every person that had an interest in the game bought all the ships that means there would be around 4000 people actively interested in the game. So if that's what you're saying, fine. I suppose I'll allow others to decide for themselves what your mental state is. For me, I'm fine with accepting that there are 1-3% whales who just buy everything. You saying that you believe that there are 150k individuals today when there was nearly 35000 backers on 2,000,000 in their KS campaign, is a ridiculous multiple. Even watch the growth of their funds and it's not in sync with the amount of $$$ available in ships. Do the math and you'll see that you're wrong. 

 Marketing isn't likely to kill this game, either.

You have no idea. If you list a Top-5, Marketing probably will be number 1 or 2, responsible to kill games. It only decreases his effect (his bad effect) when the public is larger, not a niche. Keep dreaming about those 900k. They are phantoms, they don't exist. Are the product of a few excited group, doing that thing grow up.

See above. I think the facts support there being closer to 900k than there is closer to 150k. So I'm right. 

As mentioned, it's an anomaly, much like WoW. So saying that continuing to sell ships is going to kill the game is like saying that WoW is dead.

You can't be serious. Tell me that you made a joke.

Did I laugh? 

Also, they will continue to sell ships because in order to deliver the game they need more money (thanks scope creep). 

No. They don't. Chris Roberts said that they don't. And that not all the thigns are going to come in the day one. And also told that worked (or effectively produce something) based in the income. Well... that's not our deal. He should put the money to accelerate the production. That was the deal. Not working based in "monthly income".

Hmmmmm, I don't remember seeing this deal anywhere. Can you point it out? Back room sales in KS campaigns is not uncommon. Unless you've never participated in one. In that case, it's not uncommon. 

The monthly burn on the company is probably pretty massive at this point. Throw in the costs of running 3 offices and BAM! Your $85 million isn't looking like too much any more. 

 Meh! The game can be made by 20. Putting more visual meh in the game or scenes in SQ42, we can bet not beyond 40. Any above that is just wasted money due total incompetence.

Keep telling yourself that. E:D, which you speak so fondly of had/has over 300 employees working on the game. 

Finally, your make a lot of assertions without any sort of factual evidence to back it up.

I checked deeply this project from the beginning to see that things does not fit with each other. I am not an idiot that would believe in a counter of a company that have the interest to claim that is popular, exactly to motivate their own whales to pay more and to defend them as doing the "right thing", because that brings to them more money.

OH!! Sorry, I didn't know you had studied the project in-depth from the beginning. I'll go ahead and withdraw all my statements then. All the evidence is clear now. BS, you have NOTHING!!! factual to say about the subject. FACTUAL!! It's all subjective bull because you've got a hard-on for seeing the project fail for some reason. 

The last one is possibly the most hilarious. If you truly believe that Chris Roberts' goal is to get filthy, stinking rich off this and then just make a run for it, you're delusional. That's why the cash grab idea does't fly. Fact: Chris Roberts has been trying to make this game for DECADES!!!

That's what he said. But probably he already know that won't be able to, won't be able to please people, gave up, and decided to milk more as I can to have a better retirement, or you know... he does not deny that still have dreams in the Movies.

That's ok to think that way. Someone who doesn't have the creativity to understand how you could give everything up for your passion is not abnormal. There are people who do it regularly, though. You probably believe that all these game developers are making money hand-over-fist. 

It's not likely that you've had that sort of passion, but try to imagine if you MAYBE had that passion about something for a couple years even. You are willing to sacrifice. When you are close to something that you've envisioned for nearly your entire professional life, you're likely to give up almost anything.

That's what you fail to see... Close? Tell me that was a joke again. He is close of a disaster. That is what he is close. And he is not dumb. He is kind of coward. Do not make sacrifices with his pocket, unnecessarily. He quit. The ship sales is a proof that he is not looking in the long term retention necessary.

Don't worry. Some kind of game will come out one day and I am sure that you will love it. But it will be a disaster. Caused by their marketing approach. And always have a few people that love games that the huge majority of the world considers a disaster. Good luck with the niche inside the niche inside the niche inside the niche. The ship prices and frequency of ship sales and jpeg sales, after release will increase a lot.

I have seen many disasters during my time and I don't expect SC to be any different. I've learned to deal with bugs at launch. Why adjust my expectations now. 

Hey! Once again thanks for the comment on ship frequency and pricing, along with all of the facts and research behind it. I'm certain that you're right based on all the in-depth research you've done. I appreciate you taking the time to do that. 

 

Amana

There are already threads about the game's progress and speculation over CIG. I know these hires are news but  it's just serving as another place for people to bash delays and ship sales and such.