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Player Population At It's Lowest Since 2008

F0URTWENTYF0URTWENTY Member UncommonPosts: 349

http://n4g.com/news/1751076/eve-onlines-player-population-at-its-lowest-since-2008

 

How do the vets with their enormous time and money investments in Eve Online feel with the direction the game is going? I played for 5 years, and quit after the Incarna captains quarters and microtransactions for cosmetic items. I knew CCP had switched it's business model to milking the remaining playerbase of a game on it's last leg. 

 

I still read all the patch notes and have been waiting for a reason to come back. But all I see are these UI updates nobody wants and small changes and fixes. CCP must have a much smaller dev team now because I remember them capable of producing content faster when I was still playing.

 

They didn't even talk about project legion at the last fanfest. Not even a small update. Are the abandoning that like they did with walking in stations and world of darkness? If they integrated FPS combat into Eve with Project Legion it could bring many players back but they choose not to even talk about it?

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Comments

  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619

    There are many reasons for this and one of them is the developers embracing of the marketing slogan "Be the Bad Guy".  Over the years empire space has gotten more and more dangerous which makes mining, trading, mission running and other non-pvp activities less appealing to players.  CCP continues to try and build PR by releasing stories of people losing vast amounts of real money in scams.  Who wants to play a game where everyone is looking to scam you?

    Bottom line, PVP focused games do not attract players like other games do.  If you look at DarkFall, Mortal Online, Archeage and any other MMO that focuses on PVP you find way less players than games that have PVP but only on request, such as WoW and TOR.  All CCP has to do is make empire space a little safer but they have this chip on their shoulder that their game has to be ruthless everywhere.  CCP Falcon said this:

    "Some of the people complaining in this thread have valid points about the fact that they don't feel safe. Simple fact of the matter is, that you're not suppose to feel safe in New Eden.

    Eve is not a game for the faint hearted. It's a game that will chew you up and spit you out in the blink of an eye if you even think about letting your guard down or becoming complacent."

     

    Eve wont die but as they continue to make the game more ruthless and encourage scamming, and other empire-based aggression, it will continue to lose population and become more of a niche game.  Sad really when you think this game was up to over 400k subscribers at one time.

    As I said, this in not the only reason for the decline.  Vets moving on to other games like Elite, high barrier to entry with the drastic learning curve, the normal summer slowdown and other factors are also a part of this issue.

     

    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001
    Don't fly what you can't afford to lose, be 'grateful' for the learning opportunity when people decide to 'farm you for tears', do expect to be ganked for giggles if you want to pve a expendive ship. doesn't leave a lot of room for Pvers as expected, especially when we have ED to play. To be fair though eve has allways been for the wolves and every niche deserves a home.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,774
    As they get more and more competition that attitude won't fly.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • Quazal.AQuazal.A Member UncommonPosts: 856

    As a 'vet' it is concerning the drop the numbers, but been trying to discuss this in game.

     

    Firstly i think the problem arrived from the changes from the 2 a year, to the monthly, this change has not garnered any interest, in the past the coming weeks and post weeks of patch day numbers spiked, in any mmo i have played you always see numbers arise around patch time.

    When they changed to monthly they removed this 'buzz' and because the changes are only smal lincrements we are no longer seeing some nice new things, whilst the game makers will say we are still getting the same changes its just smaller steps are not noticed.

    Then, can we honestly say across any MMO numbers are increasing long term, the only games that can say this tend to be MOBA & FPS  - Everything else is suffering. 

    There are some serious problems in game where ccp have / are driving out some of the older players, the dumbing down hasnt bought in anything like the numbers the game used to bring in, of course at some point you will have found any likely player who was interested in this type of game has either played or heard of it.

    We also have things going on in game that (see post above) make the game out to be some hell-hole for A888holes where as any player of a minimum life in game will tell you isnt the case, however, with the likes of Code & goons running amock in highsec this furhter reduces the PvE element that ANY/ALL MMO require, like it or not even full 100% pvp games players like to PvE and they have to be catered for.

    The problem above is ccaused by the COMPLETE stagnation of nullsec, null is now basically one big nap-fest, in days gone by you had 2-3 main powerblocs that wouldn't agree to any naps, nowadays this happens, consider what is happening with Code & Goons, was nullsec a busy hive of pvp we woudn't see them anything like as much in hgihsec but also the players who got bored of ratting/plexing etc and just want to pvp would come back.

     

    Sadly a joke around the game "EvE is dying" has never looked so likely, is it a slow painful death, or will it be put to bed who knows but unless CCP do something drastic the only end game will be "pull the plug" or just leave a game with 10-15k players playing. Either way this doesn't fill me with joy, personally speaking once EvE dies then my time in ANY MMO will be over, this is the only game of the genre that keeps me playing. 

    This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game where of course you're welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
    Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy

  • BaitnessBaitness Member UncommonPosts: 656
    I stopped playing because the pvp is about strategy, not individual ability, the combat is uninteresting, and the pve content stinks. I need them to fix at least two of these issues before it becomes appealing again. I suspect the game is in downfall because of the hard core alliance war players having too much control over development. I continue to recommend eve, but I feel like the game is really just about offering easy fodder to the pirate players. The game would benefit a lot by stopping catering to them.
  • EvgireonEvgireon Member Posts: 71
    Last time I played EVE was a year ago. There was no new content except t3 ships, motherships and various carebear stuff and fluff since 2008. Oh, and nerf this and nerf that.
  • hfztthfztt Member RarePosts: 1,337

    Honestly I havent been playing much either for the last half year. I can't really flaunt CCP for anything except perhaps a too slow pace of development. Then again they have been basicly rewriting the whole game since 2011, so given the 5 year MMO development time everybody claims, they are probably still 1-2 years out from being where they want to be to really bring the game forward in a meaningfull way, and lets be nonest, they needed to do that rewrite.

    But something tells me it is not about that at all. EVE is 12 years old now, and I have been playing for all that time on and off, but the "been there, done that" feeling have been taking over lately, and CCP cant really do much about that.

  • justmemyselfandijustmemyselfandi Member UncommonPosts: 559
    Originally posted by F0URTWENTY

    Player Population At It's Lowest Since 2008

    And yet, still a better movie than Twilight.

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  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Originally posted by justmemyselfandi
    Originally posted by F0URTWENTY

    Player Population At It's Lowest Since 2008

    And yet, still a better movie than Twilight.

    Watching the static between channels is better than Twilight...

    But I think they put too much resources on Dust. That both have cost us WoDO and took away resources from Eve. Big misstake in my book, while Eve is a unique game it wont be popular forever so a new MMO would have been a nice way for the company to survive the next 10 years, and WoDO had a lot of potential.

    Dust on the other hand seems like a huge waste to me at least... No way it's would last as long and have as many players as WoDO would have had and failures like that hurts existing games as well.

  • HelleriHelleri Member UncommonPosts: 930

    I have tried to like EVE....But,I just get bored with it too easily. The environment and all the new sights and sounds were cool at first. But, after a while it wears thin on me. It seems like there is only 10 synthesized tracks I get to listen to over and over. I am not a bring my own music kind of person. Moreover, I am the kind of player who likes to completely master something before I move onto a new thing within a game. This game had me hoping ships every hour. I saw one ship loitering in the newb area that I wanted a Gnosis. I own 3 of them now (and gold pod, and a couple of apotheosis). It tells me it will take literally 2 years to master that ship completely. Da hell? It's all on a timer. I don't actually train anything. I "read a book" and wait a few hours to a few weeks for the training to finish. Nothing I actively do speeds this along. It doesn't matter if I narrow my scope and buckle down. I can only ever progress at the exact same rate as every one else or less (like if I forget to add training to the que).

     

    Yeah I know the stuff I train can be forward applied to other ships. But, I like MY ship. I ended up just endlessly hoping through wormholes mapping out their features. People tell me to go gank, Or go mine...and all of those I find to be very boring. There is is nothing exciting for me about the combat for me. it's just a 100 pew pew pew. And, win or run away. And, mining is just drudgery for me. I can't do most the missions in the only ship I want to be in (and when I was doing them in lower ships it was very rinse and repeat). And, no one has a level.... I want to see a level so I know if I should attack or run. I don't want to have to memorize a couple hundred ships and all their possible effective load outs just to be able to know what the guy I decloaked behind is capable of.

     

    It all feels like pointless filler while waiting on training to finish to me. It's a game I have picked up several times and set right back down. Each time I though "It just didn't click with me last time, this time will surely be different". I kind of feel like "hey just charge me 1 buck a month to log in for 1 hour  so I  can manage my que and maybe pick up a few new skill books...And, we can talk about paying more in 3 years when my character has developed enough to actually get to the engaging parts of the game...hopefully".

    image

  • hfztthfztt Member RarePosts: 1,337
    Originally posted by Helleri

    Each time I though "It just didn't click with me last time, this time will surely be different". 

    OT, but that is exactly how I have felt about WoW from the start. Those WoW style MMO's just dont do it for me at all. Sadly it is the formula that gets cloned all the time, so finding new MMO's that I like is pretty hard...

  • MaurgrimMaurgrim Member RarePosts: 1,197

    I started playing at launch day back in may 2003, so the game is old but not dated, Its a great game, during the years up till now I've been playing and off, but for last few years I dont have the time for it, I got a job and a family now so I cant put in those hours I would like, few hours a week dont get you anywhere so I unsubbed last summer and I doubt I ever come back.

    This I guess is one of the problem, we old vets grew up dont play as much and/or just quit and not enough new blood taking over.

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 10,749
    Originally posted by Helleri

    I have tried to like EVE....But,I just get bored with it too easily. The environment and all the new sights and sounds were cool at first. But, after a while it wears thin on me. It seems like there is only 10 synthesized tracks I get to listen to over and over. I am not a bring my own music kind of person. Moreover, I am the kind of player who likes to completely master something before I move onto a new thing within a game. This game had me hoping ships every hour. I saw one ship loitering in the newb area that I wanted a Gnosis. I own 3 of them now (and gold pod, and a couple of apotheosis). It tells me it will take literally 2 years to master that ship completely. Da hell? It's all on a timer. I don't actually train anything. I "read a book" and wait a few hours to a few weeks for the training to finish. Nothing I actively do speeds this along. It doesn't matter if I narrow my scope and buckle down. I can only ever progress at the exact same rate as every one else or less (like if I forget to add training to the que).

     

    Yeah I know the stuff I train can be forward applied to other ships. But, I like MY ship. I ended up just endlessly hoping through wormholes mapping out their features. People tell me to go gank, Or go mine...and all of those I find to be very boring. There is is nothing exciting for me about the combat for me. it's just a 100 pew pew pew. And, win or run away. And, mining is just drudgery for me. I can't do most the missions in the only ship I want to be in (and when I was doing them in lower ships it was very rinse and repeat). And, no one has a level.... I want to see a level so I know if I should attack or run. I don't want to have to memorize a couple hundred ships and all their possible effective load outs just to be able to know what the guy I decloaked behind is capable of.

     

    It all feels like pointless filler while waiting on training to finish to me. It's a game I have picked up several times and set right back down. Each time I though "It just didn't click with me last time, this time will surely be different". I kind of feel like "hey just charge me 1 buck a month to log in for 1 hour  so I  can manage my que and maybe pick up a few new skill books...And, we can talk about paying more in 3 years when my character has developed enough to actually get to the engaging parts of the game...hopefully".

    It doesn't sound like you understand what the game is about, you say your favourite ship is a gnosis, which is a decent enough battlecruiser, but, 2 years to master? what skills do you think have to be mastered for this ship exactly, even if you just wanted to get battlecruiser skill to level V, that wouldn't take 2 months even, it seems like your too focused on skill training, and not looking at the things you can already do in the game.

    I recommend joining a Corp for new players, there are always some around that are willing to teach new players. Eve does have a steep learning curve, it sounds like you have the same problem some new players have, where, they enter the game, sell a few plex so that they have enough Isk to buy anything, and then struggle to understand why there is no 'best' ship or anything and that you can't 'buy' the gear to win fights, because it doesn't exist.

    Eve is a very social game, being a part of a corporation will serve two things, hopefully they will help you with your training, the things you need, the things you don't, in that sense its easier than years ago when we still had learning and attribute skills, you should have 3 neural remaps too, so you can remap your attributes to suit whatever activity you are intending to persue, it cuts down on training time, there are ways to boost those too, using cybernetics, again, all things that a decent new player corporation would introduce you to.

    The second thing is group based activities, even mining is better when your mining in a fleet with your corporation, thats if your interested in mining, its very profitable, but if you have 3 gnosis then you don't have isk worries anyway, there is mission running, including epic arcs which are harder although sisters of eve epic arc is i believe, new player friendly, and theres PVP, from faction warfare to roaming, to null sec territorial type stuff, and with lots of variations in between.

    As for the engaging part of the game, Eve does not have leveling to end game, Eve is the end game, it starts the moment you begin, forget about skill training as an objective, i've been playing since 2004 and i am still skill training, it doesn't make you more powerful, it won't win you fights, what it will do, is give you more choices, the rest, is up to you.image

  • MukeMuke Member RarePosts: 2,614
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Don't fly what you can't afford to lose, be 'grateful' for the learning opportunity when people decide to 'farm you for tears', do expect to be ganked for giggles if you want to pve a expendive ship. doesn't leave a lot of room for Pvers as expected, especially when we have ED to play. To be fair though eve has allways been for the wolves and every niche deserves a home.

    EVE has everyone on a single servercluster.

    ED has a few playing PVE on singleplayer mode.

     

    Big difference, you probably have not played any of those games.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • CaldicotCaldicot Member UncommonPosts: 450

    When IRL population starts to decline you know something is messed up.

    When you look at the concept of the EVE universe, it also would have to be growing since the influx of new players should outnumber those who leave the game. Well, that is unless something is messed up of course :/

    If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan

  • MukeMuke Member RarePosts: 2,614

    Vets quit at some point -can't play till old age- , new players find the game too difficult and compare it to a simple MMO like WoW, which is maxed out in 1 day without challenge or tactics. So they die, quit , uninstall and move on.
     

    There is your reason.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • F0URTWENTYF0URTWENTY Member UncommonPosts: 349
    Originally posted by Muke

    Vets quit at some point -can't play till old age- , new players find the game too difficult and compare it to a simple MMO like WoW, which is maxed out in 1 day without challenge or tactics. So they die, quit , uninstall and move on.
     

    There is your reason.

     

    So then why isn't CCP's main focus on Walking in stations or Project Legion? All they are doing is fixing bugs and rewriting the back end but that only matters to the current eve players. It would make much more sense for them to be working on new features that would get new players interested in the game.

     

    Before Incarna released, there was hype that eve would add avatar gameplay. They said they were working on PVE stuff first. If they would have made Walking in Stations a new gameplay layer instead of a closet they could have so many new players. They could even get those players with Project Legion even if it was only loosely tied into Eve like Dust. They had no update on Project legion at this recent fanfest. Devs told players that attended there was nothing worth mentioning about Project Legion a year after it was first announced. It seems very likely to me CCP only have a small crew working on Project Legion, which is probably their best chance of getting new players.

     

    CCP are choosing to not make any new features to bring in new players. They are choosing to let the game die.

  • BaitnessBaitness Member UncommonPosts: 656

    It isn't that new players find it too hard, they go into it expecting a complex game.  The game requires no individual skill, just a long learning period, it isn't too intimidating.  New players aren't coming because the game and the updates it receives are targeted solely at the veteran alliance war players, as those have always been the most dedicated fanbase.

     

    Unfortunately, the majority of what those players want is changes aimed not at shaking up nullsec but rather anything to make new players in hi and low sec even easier pickings.  These players do not care what is good for the game, only what is good for their own amusement, but they have taken quite a bit of control over development.

     

    EvE will not survive with these players continuing to have influence over the game.  They are not enough to keep the game funded, and they actively destroy the experience for new players.  EvE needs to cater to crowds they have been ignoring - the carebears and the new players.  There is no real competition for EvE and the space combat it offers (does STO?).  They are ignoring a part of their small customer base that could be easily attracted to the game.  Give up on the nullsec stars and the bitter vets, they will bring the game down with them.  Cater to the new players and the carebears, and the nullsec players will stick around because they have more targets to harass and no other game that allows them to be so trollish.

  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,067
    I have considered the game but upon reading some of the bullying and threats and abuse reports it scared me that I might be unfortunate enough to meet these individuals . Granted it might be a minority but the notoriety those articles and posts by people when I read them made me decide I would not try the game.

  • DarLorkarDarLorkar Member UncommonPosts: 1,082
    Originally posted by Baitness

    It isn't that new players find it too hard, they go into it expecting a complex game.  The game requires no individual skill, just a long learning period, it isn't too intimidating.  New players aren't coming because the game and the updates it receives are targeted solely at the veteran alliance war players, as those have always been the most dedicated fanbase.

     

    Unfortunately, the majority of what those players want is changes aimed not at shaking up nullsec but rather anything to make new players in hi and low sec even easier pickings.  These players do not care what is good for the game, only what is good for their own amusement, but they have taken quite a bit of control over development.

     

    EvE will not survive with these players continuing to have influence over the game.  They are not enough to keep the game funded, and they actively destroy the experience for new players.  EvE needs to cater to crowds they have been ignoring - the carebears and the new players.  There is no real competition for EvE and the space combat it offers (does STO?).  They are ignoring a part of their small customer base that could be easily attracted to the game.  Give up on the nullsec stars and the bitter vets, they will bring the game down with them.  Cater to the new players and the carebears, and the nullsec players will stick around because they have more targets to harass and no other game that allows them to be so trollish.

    The players do not control the direction the game goes...never have never will. The game is exactly how it was made to be at the start and what the dev's wanted.

     

    They have had years of knowing that the game could be more friendly to PVE type players...but the dev's never wanted that type game. They wanted a open world PVP game, with just enough safety to keep a few sheep playing. 

     

    The dev's have always celebrated the lowest type of gameplay. Theft, scams, ganking in all it forms.  That is the game they built, the game they wanted, the game they have. They will follow that vision to the bitter end.

     

    Not a bad thing really...to have a vision and believe in it so much that you will never change.  Can never say that they did a bait and switch:P They have always been firm believers in their vision and willing to stay the course. No sense in expecting them to change now.

  • RusqueRusque Member RarePosts: 2,780

    While there aren't firm numbers (though we can do some napkin math) if we scale it down proportionally, EVE has lost 40% of it's players since it's high point (which would have been the much touted 500k). So it's somewhere in the 300k range, which is what it is, doesn't matter one way or the other. And while I personally dislike EVE the only reason I see for the decline is that it's really just getting old (just like WoW). It'll be harder and harder to maintain population as tastes change and original playerbase moves on.

    That said, they've done a phenomenal job maintaining a community. 12 year old game with a following has it's name in the books. That's pretty solid.

    If Star Citizen falls through and doesn't deliver what people were hoping, I wouldn't be surprised to see a small resurgence back into EVE.

  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327

     

    Why are so many referring to "new blood" or "new players?"  There is no "new blood" or "new players" to be had.  After 12 years every PvPer, or gamer has already heard of EVE and anyone who had any interest at all in playing it has already played it.  The game capped out years ago and is on the downhill swing.  Any upswing to this games population at this point would simply be due to returning players.  There is no significant "upswing" in population left to be had for this game.  It's way past done.  You can stick a fork in it.

  • sayuusayuu Member RarePosts: 733
    Originally posted by LacedOpium

     

    Why are so many referring to "new blood" or "new players?"  There is no "new blood" or "new players" to be had.  After 12 years every PvPer, or gamer has already heard of EVE and anyone who had any interest at all in playing it has already played it.  The game capped out years ago and is on the downhill swing.  Any upswing to this games population at this point would simply be due to returning players.  There is no significant "upswing" in population left to be had for this game.  It's way past done.  You can stick a fork in it.

    My nephew just started playing 3 months ago, since then he's gotten 5 of his friends to join too. . .

     

    New blood. . .

     

  • MoiraeMoirae Member RarePosts: 3,318
    Of course it is. The extreme form of PvP they have embraced is bound to lose its luster after a while. 
  • simsalabim77simsalabim77 Member RarePosts: 1,607

    I play a few times a week doing small gang/solo PVP and exploration in lowsec. Faction Warfare is plenty busy and I suspect when the new Sovereignty stuff is implemented there'll be a moderate spike in sub numbers. I'm not saying the game is "healthy" or whatever, but as long as there's enough people for me to shoot at, the dip in sub numbers doesn't bother me a bit.

     

    Even if they only have 100,000 subs, that's 100,000 players on ONE server. 

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