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Are MMORPG on the way out as MOBA begin to rise?

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  • KhebelnKhebeln Member UncommonPosts: 759

    Well, all in all mmo genre is still young, and evolving as the technology changes so all is not lost yet.

    What i predict will happen, and it is slowly already happening we will see more games that strip down all the mmo bad habbits and old fat like Neverwinter/Skyforge bah even old DDO.

    You have quick access to quality gameplay and combat (even if you count how bugy Neverwinter Dungeons are) the next iteration of this play style Skyforge is doing it far better.

    Problem with making really good sandbox is that, by the time its done its visually are already old. And making it really good takes many many years. Only exception to that trend is Eve Online that managed to always look young and fresh, thats why its only mmo in history that gains subscriptions as time passes. And will for many years to the future :)

    Main issue with 3rd type of mmos, the classical themepark, that are the plague for many years now that started with the popularity of wow and creation of countless C class mmo games both in the west and asia.

    Simply said redundant content, boring static combat.

    Why make mmo where 90% of content is thrown away and forgotten ? I never understood that.

    Why not make combat more interesting, in this day and age we can make amazing combat with the use of in game physics. World no longer needs to be static. Learn some stuff from single player games!

    Thempark games will over time be taken over games like Neverwinter and Skyforge that almost dont have any redundant content.

    Why not make self generating maps in games like that kinda like in D3 ?Not all of them need to be like that but even if you would make certain dungeons randomly generated it would extend game play by leaps and bounds.

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  • fivorothfivoroth Member UncommonPosts: 3,916
    Originally posted by Helleri
    Originally posted by Axehilt

     
    The only thing we can say is that yes, clearly MOBAs are growing in popularity while MMORPGs are falling.  We'd need to research the more likely suspects first (other RPGs, and other PVE genres) before we could determine with any certainty where those ex-MMORPG players went.

    That was really all I was trying to say. Is that this seems to be the case. Not that they are in direct competition. Or that one is the cause of the other. I don't feel I implied otherwise. I do feel it was incorrectly inferred (by more then on person). Heck the title is very purposefully written as "Are MMORPG on the way out as MOBA begin to rise?" and not "Are MMORPG dying because MOBA are replacing them?" I feel like people replying (in general) got defensive over the mere idea of MMORPG becoming less popular in general (what ever reason aside) and just reacted based on the first part they heard played back in their heads. I thought I was very careful with my language and very transparent about the process via which I arrived at a big question...I guess I was not as well worded as I thought. Sorry, for that.

     

    Also, MMO in my opinion is an umbrella term. I feel as well, that it is a little too all encompassing. Massively Multiplayer Online...That could even include things like Facebook and Second Life (if the only qualifiers is that it be massive in some sense, used by many at once and online). I actually like to call the wider genre MMOG (The G standing for game so as to be more specific about what is being discussed)c and refer more specifically to sub genres within it (such as I did by saying MMORPG and MOBA and not MMO and MOBA).

     

    Furthermore debate over whether an MOBA is an MMOG/MMO always seems to end in ones definition of Massive. And, usually the argument against it is that lack of persistence equates to lack of massiveness. But, I feel that sort of falls flat. Because, even with persistence in most games one might consider truly massive. I rarely have the draw distance to see anything more of a world at once then I would see were it instanced. Nor do I commonly see more players at once then I would see were it instanced. So the end effect of persistent vs. instant is sort of the same.

     

    But, even if one were to dismiss this and stick to their guns on massive necessarily meaning a large persistent world. Were do you draw that line? how do you fairly say "this is large enough to be massive". And, how do you factor in content per sq. m? Some games like arch lord or huge in the span of it's sheer size. But, you can run a long way between places without running into any actual content. Whereas some game worlds like Runescape are technically pretty small. But there is so much content packed into such a small area that movement is gated by the amount of things there are to experience and the world can feel large.

    MOBAs have been popular for a long time. Dota has had a huge following since the early 2000s before most of the current MMOs were even released. LoL released in 2007/8. 

    The two are completely unrelated. A lot of my gamer friends play MOBAs. Almost none of them play MMORPGs. They never played MMORPGs unless they were on the WoW bandwagon but that doesn't count. Even my dog was playing WoW during those hype years.

    Also google searches don't imply anything. I don't think I have ever typed MMORPG in google. I have certainly never searched for MOBA. Besides its not like the MMO population has increased significantly over the last god knows how many years. 

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  • GruntyGrunty Member EpicPosts: 8,657

    Why must everything about games be an either/or situation? I don't like MOBAs. Guess what? I don't play MOBAs and I don't care that other people like and play MOBAs. Let them play what they want and let me play what I want.

    Popularity contests have never interested me and never will.

    Play what you like. Ignore those who don't like what you play.

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  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Does ice cream cause drowning?

    I'd say it depends on the ratio of whipped cream to four leafed clovers.

    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

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  • KanethKaneth Member RarePosts: 2,284
    Originally posted by ceratop001
    Mobas are just getting the run off from the failed mmorpg scene. Players are bored and just trying everything they can to find a home. The whole online gaming world is a mess.

    As much as I agree with this, I can also see mobas taking over the potential customer base away from mmorpgs. While ex-mmo players may not have all moved to mobas (and some certainly have), there could be some credence that mobas are somewhat stagnating the numbers entering into the mmorpg genre.

    Mobas tend to not have any upfront cost to enter, and while there are many F2P mmorpgs out there, almost all of them require some type of cost or grinding in order to get to the meat of the content. You can start to play with friends in a moba immediately, while in mmorpgs there are level gaps present to prevent friends from gaming together for periods of time. Mobas provide instant action, where mmorpgs tend to make you build up to the action after awhile. There's also no long term progression in mobas so that you're not having to "keep up with the joneses" like you do in a mmorpg.

    Mmorpgs are declining in popularity and there's a real potential that the genre isn't going to get a new large batch of entry level players until they get burned out on mobas. 

  • StrayfeStrayfe Member UncommonPosts: 199

    MOBAs have a defined ceiling, whereas MMORPGs, in theory anyway, do not.  The set of game parameters and gameplay mechanics that define what a MOBA is are very finite.  Lanes, minions, small scale battles, items/talents, maps, either pvp or against bots, etc.

    MMORPGs as virtual worlds could, theoretically, contain just about any possible mechanic you could think of from any other genre (including MOBAs), plus any number of mechanics specific to them.  We've seen this with MMOFPS, MMORTS.  Even MMORPG sports games are floating around out there.  In theory, this allows MMORPGs to pull from a much higher potential player base depending on the features included in each specific game.

    In practice, however, the AAA industry keeps attempting to churn out the exact same MMORPG over and over again, because innovation died the moment production of games was shunted away from people who are passionate about games and into the hands of bean counters, as is the case any time an industry goes from niche to mainstream appeal.  It happened with radio, television, movies, books, anything you can possibly think of, and now that the video game industry has matured, this is where things stand.

    Indie developers have been a boon for other facets of gaming, however MMORPGs are too big and too convoluted for an indie team to make one of any reasonable quality.  Essentially, gamers want to play the "next big thing", people in general want the "next big thing."  Right now, developers stopped making MMORPGs and the few titles on the horizon are low budget, extremely niche (Camelot Unchained, Crowfall) or being headed by a development studio that broke away from its parent company, fired half its staff and went into full STFU mode about everything (EQ Next).

    There's not much to be excited for right now if you're a fan of MMORPGs, and given that void, people will try to fill it with something, even if it's not the something they'd prefer.

  • GaendricGaendric Member UncommonPosts: 623

    I don't see a problem. People should play what they enjoy most, whichever genre that may be in.

    What it boils down to is that Mobas can only steal MMO customers if they are delivering a superior product for the targeted audience. In which case they deserve those customers.

    It's not doom&gloom or anything, it's just some non-MMOs currently delivering superior experiences for many players. Genre hopping is common, people will play whatever they enjoy most. As quickly as they left, they will also come back if there is incentive to do so.

    So basically, the "simple" solution is to target the right audience, make a great MMO for them, market it well and voilà, you "stole" those customers back.

     

  • Matticus75Matticus75 Member UncommonPosts: 396

    The only MOBA I cared for was Demigod, where you can upgrade your base, defensive structures, capture additional creep spawn points, and as well as upgrade creeps weapons/armor with adding more powerful creep types as the game progresses, not to mention your hero as well.............

    ALL of the MOBAs now are just a really a dumbed down verison of Demigod, never understood why MOBAs are so popular over Demigod. This is the only genre where one of the original MOBAs was pretty much abandoned for a "really dumbed down version of the same game type" Demigod was not hard to play, and didn't take an hour to finish a match..... That's why I don't play them, I literally fall asleep when I play.

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Originally posted by Helleri

    That was really all I was trying to say. Is that this seems to be the case. Not that they are in direct competition. Or that one is the cause of the other. I don't feel I implied otherwise. I do feel it was incorrectly inferred (by more then on person). Heck the title is very purposefully written as "Are MMORPG on the way out as MOBA begin to rise?" and not "Are MMORPG dying because MOBA are replacing them?" I feel like people replying (in general) got defensive over the mere idea of MMORPG becoming less popular in general (what ever reason aside) and just reacted based on the first part they heard played back in their heads. I thought I was very careful with my language and very transparent about the process via which I arrived at a big question...I guess I was not as well worded as I thought. Sorry, for that. 

    Also, MMO in my opinion is an umbrella term. I feel as well, that it is a little too all encompassing. Massively Multiplayer Online...That could even include things like Facebook and Second Life (if the only qualifiers is that it be massive in some sense, used by many at once and online). I actually like to call the wider genre MMOG (The G standing for game so as to be more specific about what is being discussed)c and refer more specifically to sub genres within it (such as I did by saying MMORPG and MOBA and not MMO and MOBA). 

    Furthermore debate over whether an MOBA is an MMOG/MMO always seems to end in ones definition of Massive. And, usually the argument against it is that lack of persistence equates to lack of massiveness. But, I feel that sort of falls flat. Because, even with persistence in most games one might consider truly massive. I rarely have the draw distance to see anything more of a world at once then I would see were it instanced. Nor do I commonly see more players at once then I would see were it instanced. So the end effect of persistent vs. instant is sort of the same. 

    But, even if one were to dismiss this and stick to their guns on massive necessarily meaning a large persistent world. Were do you draw that line? how do you fairly say "this is large enough to be massive". And, how do you factor in content per sq. m? Some games like arch lord or huge in the span of it's sheer size. But, you can run a long way between places without running into any actual content. Whereas some game worlds like Runescape are technically pretty small. But there is so much content packed into such a small area that movement is gated by the amount of things there are to experience and the world can feel large.

    Right I didn't mean to imply you were claiming otherwise, sorry if I came off that way.

    As for "MMO", adjectives require exclusivity to function.  If I called every color "yellow", you'd never know what I was describing. So non-massive games shouldn't be called MMOs.

    The definition of massively is clear when you consider history:

    • In 1997 Quake 2 released and had thousands of concurrent players online...but only ~20 per server.
    • In 1997 Richard Garriott coined the term MMORPG for Ultima Online.
    • UO had many hundreds of players per server (possibly over a thousand?)
    • So clearly MMO wasn't a measure of the playerbase, but of how many players were playing in the same shared game.
    As for details on how many players have to share the game to be "massive", I feel it's vaguely double:
    • A typical multiplayer FPS has ~64 players max, while a MMOFPS has over 128.
    • A typical multiplayer RPG has ~8 players max, while a MMORPG has over 16.  (I actually feel typical RPG multiplayer averages a bit less than 8, and in ESO I regularly see 30+ in town, so these numbers are a bit conservative.)
     

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  • HelleriHelleri Member UncommonPosts: 930
    Originally posted by Axehilt
    Originally posted by Helleri

    That was really all I was trying to say. Is that this seems to be the case. Not that they are in direct competition. Or that one is the cause of the other. I don't feel I implied otherwise. I do feel it was incorrectly inferred (by more then on person). Heck the title is very purposefully written as "Are MMORPG on the way out as MOBA begin to rise?" and not "Are MMORPG dying because MOBA are replacing them?" I feel like people replying (in general) got defensive over the mere idea of MMORPG becoming less popular in general (what ever reason aside) and just reacted based on the first part they heard played back in their heads. I thought I was very careful with my language and very transparent about the process via which I arrived at a big question...I guess I was not as well worded as I thought. Sorry, for that. 

    Also, MMO in my opinion is an umbrella term. I feel as well, that it is a little too all encompassing. Massively Multiplayer Online...That could even include things like Facebook and Second Life (if the only qualifiers is that it be massive in some sense, used by many at once and online). I actually like to call the wider genre MMOG (The G standing for game so as to be more specific about what is being discussed)c and refer more specifically to sub genres within it (such as I did by saying MMORPG and MOBA and not MMO and MOBA). 

    Furthermore debate over whether an MOBA is an MMOG/MMO always seems to end in ones definition of Massive. And, usually the argument against it is that lack of persistence equates to lack of massiveness. But, I feel that sort of falls flat. Because, even with persistence in most games one might consider truly massive. I rarely have the draw distance to see anything more of a world at once then I would see were it instanced. Nor do I commonly see more players at once then I would see were it instanced. So the end effect of persistent vs. instant is sort of the same. 

    But, even if one were to dismiss this and stick to their guns on massive necessarily meaning a large persistent world. Were do you draw that line? how do you fairly say "this is large enough to be massive". And, how do you factor in content per sq. m? Some games like arch lord or huge in the span of it's sheer size. But, you can run a long way between places without running into any actual content. Whereas some game worlds like Runescape are technically pretty small. But there is so much content packed into such a small area that movement is gated by the amount of things there are to experience and the world can feel large.

    Right I didn't mean to imply you were claiming otherwise, sorry if I came off that way.

    As for "MMO", adjectives require exclusivity to function.  If I called every color "yellow", you'd never know what I was describing. So non-massive games shouldn't be called MMOs.

    The definition of massively is clear when you consider history:

    • In 1997 Quake 2 released and had thousands of concurrent players online...but only ~20 per server.
    • In 1997 Richard Garriott coined the term MMORPG for Ultima Online.
    • UO had many hundreds of players per server (possibly over a thousand?)
    • So clearly MMO wasn't a measure of the playerbase, but of how many players were playing in the same shared game.
    As for details on how many players have to share the game to be "massive", I feel it's vaguely double:
    • A typical multiplayer FPS has ~64 players max, while a MMOFPS has over 128.
    • A typical multiplayer RPG has ~8 players max, while a MMORPG has over 16.  (I actually feel typical RPG multiplayer averages a bit less than 8, and in ESO I regularly see 30+ in town, so these numbers are a bit conservative.)
     

    I can agree that the perspective history for helping to definine what was meant by massive at the time is sound. However, we have come a long way from there. Even though we have come a long way from then (and an argument could be made for expanding what is meant by Massive). In the interest of not watering down our own terminology, I will concede that point.

    However, on the second point. There are still many things that are MMO which are not MMORPG (Second life being a case in point). So, I do feel it is important to Not call an MMORPG by MMO (do we really need to contract an acronym further?). And, to distinguish between MMO and MMOG. That one extra character specifies 'and also a game'.

    image

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,966
    I play a lot of MMO's but no MOBAs. 

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • tixylixtixylix Member UncommonPosts: 1,288

    The MMO has been in decline for a long time because they're not being made any more. 

     

    The problem is in the days of EverQuest games were a lot cheaper to make. Lots of smaller studios were pumping out MMOs which were radically different there was something for everyone to enjoy. WoW came out, change the game and suddenly studios thought they had a template to copy from. This correlated with the 360 and the HD gaming era, where suddenly game creation became a lot more expensive. So once all these failed WoW clones went under, a lot of money was lost and everyone decided to get the hell out of the genre. 

    We're at this point now though where there are huge markets for niche games, there are enough people gaming on places like Steam to support them. The AAA is in decline and everyone is going for these indie experiences, they're bored of AAA and are branching out. 

    If someone came along and made a modern SWG with great graphics and mechanics, it would be hugely popular. Sadly though everyone has checked out and I think the genre has been confused with out genres. Now to people games like Destiny are suddenly MMOs... when they aren't. This is what the instant travel and dungeon focused MMOs have bred...

  • azzamasinazzamasin Member UncommonPosts: 3,100
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    MOBAs won't replace MMOs anymore than shooters will replace city-building games.

     

     

    Sorry to burst your precious bubble but MOBA's have been more populated then MMO's for a while now.  MMO's are the worst genre by the numbers and it is only going to get worse.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • syntax42syntax42 Member UncommonPosts: 1,378
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    MOBAs won't replace MMOs anymore than shooters will replace city-building games.

     

     

    Sorry to burst your precious bubble but MOBA's have been more populated then MMO's for a while now.  MMO's are the worst genre by the numbers and it is only going to get worse.

    Care to back up your wild claims with some reliable sources?

  • azarhalazarhal Member RarePosts: 1,393
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    MOBAs won't replace MMOs anymore than shooters will replace city-building games.

    Sorry to burst your precious bubble but MOBA's have been more populated then MMO's for a while now.  MMO's are the worst genre by the numbers and it is only going to get worse.

    How does that comment burst's Robokapp bubble that shooters aren't going to replace city-building games?

    Shooters are way more popular then the niche city-building genre. Shooter games popularity didn't stop city-building games from being made, bought and played.

     

  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Member EpicPosts: 2,380

    The AAA companies that used to make MMO's have already all bailed for the MOBA scene.  That alone should tell us where all the players are.

    Just as a bit of anecdotal evidence; a significant number of EVE Online developers have left CCP and gone to Riot.  I'm talking about somewhere around 10+ well known developers that interacted with the community quite a bit, not to mention just as many who have quietly gone to Riot behind the scenes.

    I don't know how many other MMO companies are losing members to MOBA companies, but CCP is bleeding developers away.

  • AkumawraithAkumawraith Member UncommonPosts: 370
    Originally posted by tawess

    I´d rather see it as the MMO genre comming to rest, it is no longer a "new thing" heck it is hardly a "thing"

    (VR is the "new thing" )

    MOBAs are not there yet.. they are still sort of a "thing" 

     

    Also the reason you see a lot less searching on places like Youtube is because the front page of YT is getting better/more invasive when it comes to findingt stuff you might like, so you are more likely to channel hop than outright search for stuff. 

     

    But as other pointed out... MOBA´s and MMO(insert genre here) do not directly compete in the same way that Forza, Need for Speed and Mario Kart does not directly compete but still are all racing games. 

    I can see this statement as something that many see and agree with.

     

    However I wouldn't be my loving/hated self if I didnt point out that the only reason MMOs are feeling like damn again? syndrome is because none of them are really doing anything even remotely intelligent... oh, wait, Citadel of Sorcery is doing something.. I wish them luck.

     

    Since 2008 MMOs have all gone to crap. Wrath was released, Blizzard sold out to Vivendi, Obama got elected.. oh wait that wasnt gaming related... but it gives one the understanding that 2008 just sucked.. Since then the gaming industry really hasnt been too innovative, rather... they have become stagnant in their own waste.

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    Playing: The Secret World until Citadel of Sorcery goes into Alpha testing.

    Tired of: Linear quest games, dailies, and dumbed down games

    Anticipating:Citadel of Sorcery

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Originally posted by h0urg1ass

    The AAA companies that used to make MMO's have already all bailed for the MOBA scene.  That alone should tell us where all the players are.

    Just as a bit of anecdotal evidence; a significant number of EVE Online developers have left CCP and gone to Riot.  I'm talking about somewhere around 10+ well known developers that interacted with the community quite a bit, not to mention just as many who have quietly gone to Riot behind the scenes.

    I don't know how many other MMO companies are losing members to MOBA companies, but CCP is bleeding developers away.

    Meaningless statement tbh, and has no bearing on player numbers. Might startle you to find out that developers do actually move from company to company, does that mean anything, no actually it does not.

    As for the MMO companies that have 'bailed' for the MOBA scene, which are you actually talking about? Obviously not Blizzard, as they are still heavily involved with WoW, obviously not CCP as they are involved with, not just Eve, but  Legion and Valkyrie also, and obviously not Square Enix, as they are still very busy with FFXIV;ARR, perhaps you meant Bioware, but, no, they are still working away at SW;TOR, so, which companies do you actually mean?

    MOBA's and MMO's are different markets, different customers, different player base. They are not in competition because players of one, are rarely interested in the other, and, if every single MMO shut down tomorrow, the players are unlikely to start playing MOBA's because of it.image

  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 7,112

    Even if MOBAs are becoming popular and perhaps outstrip MMORPGs what relevance is it to folk who do not play or enjoy  MOBAs. Those people who do not enjoy point click or the lack of the 'world' in the MOBA is not going suddenly see the light and switch. They will continue to play the games that are available simply because the gameplay in MOBAs is not to their liking.

     

    Unless you are saying that as a result more developers who were making MMORPGs will now solely make MOBAs. Well Blizzard has done that in support of your argument but are they giving up the MMORPG genre then. My point is what difference would this development mean to a player who enjoys MMORPGs unless it is that less money will be going to MMORPGs. 

     

    Fine even if empirically you are correct I have played League of Legends and it will never ever take the place of an MMORPG and even if that was not your point I have never been able to play FPS because I get bad nausea and headaches and does it affect my love for MMORPGs that I cannot play a very popular genre. They are just different genres, even if MOBAs outstrip the development and popularity and I suspect it already does it makes little difference to me as I am still playing MMORPGs . I am not going to suddenly develop a liking for MOBAs especially since I did not like it that much after playing it for 3 months.

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  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Member EpicPosts: 2,380
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by h0urg1ass

    The AAA companies that used to make MMO's have already all bailed for the MOBA scene.  That alone should tell us where all the players are.

    Just as a bit of anecdotal evidence; a significant number of EVE Online developers have left CCP and gone to Riot.  I'm talking about somewhere around 10+ well known developers that interacted with the community quite a bit, not to mention just as many who have quietly gone to Riot behind the scenes.

    I don't know how many other MMO companies are losing members to MOBA companies, but CCP is bleeding developers away.

    Meaningless statement tbh, and has no bearing on player numbers. Might startle you to find out that developers do actually move from company to company, does that mean anything, no actually it does not.

    You mean people change jobs?  Say it ain't so!  Thanks captain obvious.  It's not that devs are changing jobs, it's the direction of flow from MMO to MOBA.  Not surprised that a well known EVE apologist is on the scene to spin the facts though.

    As for the MMO companies that have 'bailed' for the MOBA scene, which are you actually talking about? Obviously not Blizzard, as they are still heavily involved with WoW, obviously not CCP as they are involved with, not just Eve, but  Legion and Valkyrie also, and obviously not Square Enix, as they are still very busy with FFXIV;ARR, perhaps you meant Bioware, but, no, they are still working away at SW;TOR, so, which companies do you actually mean?

    What you're talking about is not new development, you're talking about supporting existing games, which of course these companies are going to do.  They'll support them as long as these games are bringing in money that will let them develop their competing MOBA.

    Name a AAA company that has announced a AAA MMO with a 100+ million budget in the last year.  For the past ten years many of the AAA companies have been releasing new 100+ million budget MMO's like they were going out of style... which they are.  Now there's nothing but silence and tumbleweeds.

    Here I'll help you out from this very site.  Here's a list of upcoming games that people are hyped about playing:

    Crowfall:  Indie Studio

    Star Citizen: Indie Studio

    Gloria Victis:  Indie Studio

    Camelot Unchained:  Indie Studio

    Pantheon: Indie Studio

    Everquest Next:  SOE... Oh wait, they sold off their MMO studio and bailed out of the MMO scene.

    I can keep going down the list, but I like to stop at SOE since it punctuates the fuck out of my point.

    It's also pretty rich that you mentioned Blizzard considering that their next title isn't an MMO.   It's... wait for it!  A MOBA!

    Also, Legion is going to be a shitty console FPS port and Valkyrie an MMORPG?  Uhhh, no.  Valkyrie is the very example of what I'm talking about here.  CCP is capitalizing on VR technology and moving away from MMO's.

    Ever heard of World of Darkness?  The next big MMO that CCP was supposed to be producing?  Shit-canned.  Gone.  Nada.  Even CCP is diversifying away from the MMO scene.

    MOBA's and MMO's are different markets, different customers, different player base. They are not in competition because players of one, are rarely interested in the other, and, if every single MMO shut down tomorrow, the players are unlikely to start playing MOBA's because of it.image

    Prove one single word.  

    Nearly my entire EVE Online corporation plays MOBA's.  In fact they sit around playing MOBA's until they get a ping from someone like me saying I have a target to kill.

    I'd wager that they not only share a player base, but that MOBA's have taken a large portion of the player base.  Otherwise where are the big MMO announcements from last year and this year?

  • TheOctagonTheOctagon Member UncommonPosts: 408
    I've always thought of MOBA's as a niche style game. There are actually only a few that are worth playing...
  • XiaokiXiaoki Member RarePosts: 3,358

    Why spend 7 years and $100 million making a new AAA MMORPG just so you can be screamed at by the players for more content and every little tiny thing?

    If you dont have an entire continent of new content every month for free the players will riot.


    MOBAs on the other take a fraction of the cost and time to make and the players just want more heroes and outfits.

    Your upkeep is once a month put out a new hero, some new outfits and maybe some balance tweaks.


    The problem lies with the players. The players demand too much from MMORPGs these days and are willing to give little in exchange.


    MMORPGs are not worth the investment to developers and publishers anymore.

  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Member EpicPosts: 2,380
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    Why spend 7 years and $100 million making a new AAA MMORPG just so you can be screamed at by the players for more content and every little tiny thing?

    If you dont have an entire continent of new content every month for free the players will riot.


    MOBAs on the other take a fraction of the cost and time to make and the players just want more heroes and outfits.

    Your upkeep is once a month put out a new hero, some new outfits and maybe some balance tweaks.


    The problem lies with the players. The players demand too much from MMORPGs these days and are willing to give little in exchange.


    MMORPGs are not worth the investment to developers and publishers anymore.

    This is partially a self created problem from the companies.  When you make a 100% themepark MMO, then the impetus is on the company to keep producing content, and no company can produce content faster than the players can chew through it these days.

    If you put up artificial barriers to chewing through the content quickly, then players complain that the game has too much "grind" and then they leave.

    We live in an instant gratification age and MOBA's fulfill that instant gratification need.

    Alternatively, if these companies would build themebox/sandpark MMO's instead, where both players and devs create the content, then I believe these types of games would last a lot longer.

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Originally posted by Helleri

    However, on the second point. There are still many things that are MMO which are not MMORPG (Second life being a case in point). So, I do feel it is important to Not call an MMORPG by MMO (do we really need to contract an acronym further?). And, to distinguish between MMO and MMOG. That one extra character specifies 'and also a game'.

    Yeah totally agree on not calling MMORPGs "MMOs".

    MMO is an adjective.  If someone tells you "I just got a red!"  then your response would probably be "A red what?" because they haven't used a noun (and therefore haven't told you what it is that's red.)

    So you wouldn't describe Second Life as an MMO. Wikipedia calls it a virtual world.  Virtual world is the 'noun' we're looking for.  And if SL also has massive multiplayer then we can call it a MMOVW.  But never just MMO.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    How can people sit here and say who is playing what, what background and interests they had prior, and whether or not those folks taste did or did not change? It's just as weird to sit here and say MMORPG players don't play MOBAs, or the opposite.. The fact of the matter is no one here knows who's playing what, who likes what, and who has moved onto something else. Unless individually stated, which really means jack-squat to the overall topic here.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


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