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FPS Mode deylayed

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  • TheYear1500TheYear1500 Member UncommonPosts: 531
    Originally posted by Vrika
    Originally posted by Wizardry
    I had a hard time following what Chris was going on about. To me it just sounds like any normal operation having various server machines handling various content.It also just sounded to me like instance after instance,then calls it a persistent world lol. I would normally say just more stalling to continue soaking up that cash shop but in all honesty,they have not spent nearly enough time on this game to call any portion of it finished or in his terms "first iteration". I don't get the whole "MODULE" talk,that is one of my biggest peeves in games like MOBA's everything is just a module instead of looking like a game world.I never like to feel like i am at an Arcade where i put my 50 cents in to play on that machine,then 50 cents to hop onto another machine and sop on and so on,i like the game to feel like one entity.Think along the lines of H1Z1,the only thing people play is BR a 15 minute instance,,removed from the rest of the game world. What it really sounds like is this game is going to operate like GW1,a lobby,full of instances,none of the "modules" are together in the game but instead separated through instances. I am by no means saying this type of game is easy to pull of,imo it is the toughest game to pull off.However all the small detail that goes into trying to pull this off cost effectively brings out a worse product.Everything from boarding a ship "instance" to landing "instance".i expect even the story and everything else to always feel instanced and separated from the game world.Hangar's...yep instanced,all of the design just ruins any quality and fun it would be to have a real quality game such as this one. I feel the end result is going to give me the same feel as SWTOR did,just a game that "could have been" but never felt like an EPIC space game,instead just Wing  Commander with updated graphics.

    The modules and instances don't refer to actual gameplay.

    Instance is the word they use when they're trying to tell you that they have complex technology that distributes the processing load to multiple computers so that it's completely invisible to you and you can play in a seamless word.

    Modules is the word they use when they're trying to explain that they have split the project to several smaller pieces, and have different teams working on those different pieces. They call those pieces modules. Ideally it'll also be completely invisible to you that the game is programmed this way.

    It's complicated. Just think of Chris Roberts as remote controller salesman who's giving you a lecture about technical principles behind how a remote controller works and how it's assembled at the factory.

    Its not a seamless world, it will be filled with load screens.  

  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 4,724
    Originally posted by TheYear1500
    Originally posted by Vrika
    Originally posted by Wizardry
    I had a hard time following what Chris was going on about. To me it just sounds like any normal operation having various server machines handling various content.It also just sounded to me like instance after instance,then calls it a persistent world lol. I would normally say just more stalling to continue soaking up that cash shop but in all honesty,they have not spent nearly enough time on this game to call any portion of it finished or in his terms "first iteration". I don't get the whole "MODULE" talk,that is one of my biggest peeves in games like MOBA's everything is just a module instead of looking like a game world.I never like to feel like i am at an Arcade where i put my 50 cents in to play on that machine,then 50 cents to hop onto another machine and sop on and so on,i like the game to feel like one entity.Think along the lines of H1Z1,the only thing people play is BR a 15 minute instance,,removed from the rest of the game world. What it really sounds like is this game is going to operate like GW1,a lobby,full of instances,none of the "modules" are together in the game but instead separated through instances. I am by no means saying this type of game is easy to pull of,imo it is the toughest game to pull off.However all the small detail that goes into trying to pull this off cost effectively brings out a worse product.Everything from boarding a ship "instance" to landing "instance".i expect even the story and everything else to always feel instanced and separated from the game world.Hangar's...yep instanced,all of the design just ruins any quality and fun it would be to have a real quality game such as this one. I feel the end result is going to give me the same feel as SWTOR did,just a game that "could have been" but never felt like an EPIC space game,instead just Wing  Commander with updated graphics.

    The modules and instances don't refer to actual gameplay.

    Instance is the word they use when they're trying to tell you that they have complex technology that distributes the processing load to multiple computers so that it's completely invisible to you and you can play in a seamless word.

    Modules is the word they use when they're trying to explain that they have split the project to several smaller pieces, and have different teams working on those different pieces. They call those pieces modules. Ideally it'll also be completely invisible to you that the game is programmed this way.

    It's complicated. Just think of Chris Roberts as remote controller salesman who's giving you a lecture about technical principles behind how a remote controller works and how it's assembled at the factory.

    Its not a seamless world, it will be filled with load screens.  

    I thought their plan was to create tech to handle transitions between instances without any loading screen. Did they change it?

    I think it's seamless if there's tech that hides those seams completely.

     
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 8,937
    Originally posted by Vrika
    Originally posted by TheYear1500
     

    I thought their plan was to create tech to handle transitions between instances without any loading screen. Did they change it?

    I think it's seamless if there's tech that hides those seams completely.

    TheYear1500 is guessing ... no one yet has an idea if and where there will be loading screens. Current transitions in Arena Commander are no indication, because you are essentially logging into a SimPod ("playing a game in an arcade machine/simulator in-game").

     

    Here is a guestimate by me personally - there may be some loading screens, but they most likely will hide them well -

    -  riding an elevator ( Mass Effect was hiding some loading that way too)

    -  passing through customs (the scanning for weapons scene in the SC trailer)

    -  (OPTIONAL) passing over final approach to a landing beacon system that guides you to your landing position

    -  passing a stargate/wormhole routinely as your nav computer guides you through it  (when you FIRST enter a gate there is this mini game on navigating the "wormhole" that we have seen in a trailer, but flying through a known gate will most likely hide some loading of the next star system)

    - waiting for an airlock to cycle from vacuum to full atmosphere (that would be my guess for most combat boarding action and for entering space ships)

    etc.

     

    Have fun

     

     

     

  • kinkyJalepenokinkyJalepeno Member UncommonPosts: 932
    Originally posted by rubydragon5
    According to gamespot, SC FPS mode has been delayed indefinitely   http://www.gamespot.com/articles/star-citizens-fps-mode-delayed-indefinitely/1100-6428528/   I am hoping this doesn't become a big mess and a decent product is still delivered.

    This was always the danger...  The game is trying to do too much, too early and all at once...

     

    They should have fully released a solid space sim first then after a while worked on the FPS part and released as an expansion.  Looks like Elite:D will be the sure fire bet at this stage..

  • JonBonJawaJonBonJawa Member UncommonPosts: 489
    Originally posted by Phaserlight
    Originally posted by JonBonJawa stomp on the little indie with 85 million from actual fans without financial interest

    Again, I'm sorry, but nothing about 85 million USD qualifies as "little".  The city built a huge library in my hometown and filled it with books for 9 million.

    When successfully completed, Star Citizen will likely be one of the most expensive video games ever made.

    still SC is about 180 million behind the development budget of GTA V

    and it´s about 3 years less time in development than GTA V and Sykrim and they had established studios, not hired the team from scratch building up offices.

    yet the vocal minority complainers have the impression in their heads SC would be overdue and over budget.

    It will take until 2017 to finish it, is my realistic opionion ,and that´s perfectly okay

     

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,207
    Originally posted by Erillion
    Originally posted by Vrika
    Originally posted by TheYear1500
     

    I thought their plan was to create tech to handle transitions between instances without any loading screen. Did they change it?

    I think it's seamless if there's tech that hides those seams completely.

    TheYear1500 is guessing ... no one yet has an idea if and where there will be loading screens. Current transitions in Arena Commander are no indication, because you are essentially logging into a SimPod ("playing a game in an arcade machine/simulator in-game").

     

    Here is a guestimate by me personally - there may be some loading screens, but they most likely will hide them well -

    -  riding an elevator ( Mass Effect was hiding some loading that way too)

    -  passing through customs (the scanning for weapons scene in the SC trailer)

    -  (OPTIONAL) passing over final approach to a landing beacon system that guides you to your landing position

    -  passing a stargate/wormhole routinely as your nav computer guides you through it  (when you FIRST enter a gate there is this mini game on navigating the "wormhole" that we have seen in a trailer, but flying through a known gate will most likely hide some loading of the next star system)

    - waiting for an airlock to cycle from vacuum to full atmosphere (that would be my guess for most combat boarding action and for entering space ships)

    etc.

     

    Have fun

     

     

     

    As always, I am no fan of Roberts, but all these sorts of things are great ways to provide instance transition while maintaining immersion.  Can't forget cutscenes.  He likes them.

     

    Any word on the projected number of players or ships that can fit in instance?  I've heard that it was something around 32, but that was a while ago.  Gone up?  Gone down?   Waiting on the mysterious netcode revision?

     

    Delays are inevitable.  With this production they are even inevitabler.....

     

     

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 3,485
    Originally posted by JonBonJawa
    Originally posted by Phaserlight
    Originally posted by JonBonJawa stomp on the little indie with 85 million from actual fans without financial interest

    Again, I'm sorry, but nothing about 85 million USD qualifies as "little".  The city built a huge library in my hometown and filled it with books for 9 million.

    When successfully completed, Star Citizen will likely be one of the most expensive video games ever made.

    still SC is about 180 million behind the development budget of GTA V

    and it´s about 3 years less time in development than GTA V and Sykrim and they had established studios, not hired the team from scratch building up offices.

    yet the vocal minority complainers have the impression in their heads SC would be overdue and over budget.

    It will take until 2017 to finish it, is my realistic opionion ,and that´s perfectly okay

     

    Except you are forgetting that They have said that a crowd funded dollar is worth 4x as much as a regular development dollar so really they are at 340 million dollars, which already surpasses GTA V.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 8,937
    Originally posted by Arglebargle

    Any word on the projected number of players or ships that can fit in instance?  I've heard that it was something around 32, but that was a while ago.  Gone up?  Gone down?   Waiting on the mysterious netcode revision?

    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12770-Chris-Roberts-On-Multiplayer-Single-Player-And-Instancing

    http://forums.starcitizenbase.com/topic/12527-instance-size/

     

    Still at 50-100 players per instance according to plan. Somewhere around the lower number is more likely. So its a bit more than what you heard. For reference: BF4 has 64.

     

    Have fun

     

  • MukeMuke Member RarePosts: 2,610
    Originally posted by Erillion
    Originally posted by Arglebargle

    Any word on the projected number of players or ships that can fit in instance?  I've heard that it was something around 32, but that was a while ago.  Gone up?  Gone down?   Waiting on the mysterious netcode revision?

    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12770-Chris-Roberts-On-Multiplayer-Single-Player-And-Instancing

    http://forums.starcitizenbase.com/topic/12527-instance-size/

     

    Still at 50-100 players per instance according to plan. Somewhere around the lower number is more likely. So its a bit more than what you heard. For reference: BF4 has 64.

     

    Have fun

     

    Instances are bad, should be one big happy open world, even when it is laggy.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 8,937
    Originally posted by Muke

    Instances are bad, should be one big happy open world, even when it is laggy.

    Has been tried, does not work due to hardware limitations, always ended in desaster. As time and hardware progresses, the limit of what is possible goes up.

    Largest player gathering was in EVE Online, several thousand players in one place ... only works due to a mechanic called "time dilation" (everyone is slowed down equally so the server can keep up with shoveling around the data). Its a bit like watching a Powerpoint presentation slide by slide. Laggy does not even begin to describe it.

     

    Have fun

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 8,937
    Originally posted by justmemyselfandi

    It's about the simple fact that Chris Roberts has absolutely no incentive to make the actual game suckers have been paying him to make, ....***snip**

    You have never met anyone of the SC team personally, correct ?

    My personal impression (Gamescon, 2014) :  Money is NOT the motive that drives them.

    They are as eager to see this game come to life as any hardcore fan, maybe even more so. They remind me of the people that created the "Lord of the Rings" movies (i know some)  .... on a mission to create something unique and giving it all. 

     

    Have fun

  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 2,831
    Originally posted by JonBonJawa
    Originally posted by Phaserlight

    Again, I'm sorry, but nothing about 85 million USD qualifies as "little".  The city built a huge library in my hometown and filled it with books for 9 million. When successfully completed, Star Citizen will likely be one of the most expensive video games ever made.

    still SC is about 180 million behind the development budget of GTA V

    and it´s about 3 years less time in development than GTA V and Sykrim and they had established studios, not hired the team from scratch building up offices.

    yet the vocal minority complainers have the impression in their heads SC would be overdue and over budget.

    It will take until 2017 to finish it, is my realistic opionion ,and that´s perfectly okay

     

    Uhm nope. If you look at the link you'll see that the development budget for GTAV was $137 million so currently a difference of $50 odd million. As someone else mentioned there's always the 4 to 1 thing he was tooting https://i.imgur.com/cbs3aHj.jpg

  • VaselVasel Member UncommonPosts: 147
    I have had a few beers with the CGI QA team and can assure you that SC is not vapor ware. It will take a lot longer to get done than we all would like. If your not interested then dont support it. No one is forcing you.
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 8,937
    Originally posted by Vasel
    I have had a few beers with the CGI QA team and can assure you that SC is not vapor ware. It will take a lot longer to get done than we all would like. If your not interested then dont support it. No one is forcing you.

    Vasel ... what was your impression about the CIG team members you met   (and their motives) ?

    In your opinion: 

    Are they doing it just for the money ? Do they consider themselves part of something that may become a new milestone of the gaming industry ? Is it just the usual thing they do as a Q&A tester ? 

     

    Have fun

  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 2,831
    A lot of people thought Bernie Madoff was a stand up guy... which is not to imply SC is any sort of scheme, just that what you see and what you get can be wildly different.
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member RarePosts: 2,367

    Furthermore, the "no one is forcing you" line grossly oversimplifies a few basic things about the human prefrontal cortex, limbic system, and economics. Anyone who has had experience stock trading, marketing, or a college education covering the topic, should see right through it.  Why even bring it up unless there is some question about the matter?

    I just find it funny how quickly some resort to this defense, considering how paper thin it is in the face of modern science.


    People really do like to think they are in control, when decades of research indicate the opposite (if you really want to know more, try Googling Dr. Robert Sapolsky).

    I do believe in free will, but maybe Jacob from Ink said it best:

    "To be what you are not, experience what you are not." -Saint John of the Cross
    Authored 131 missions in Vendetta Online
    Check it out on Steam

  • jcrg99jcrg99 Member UncommonPosts: 723
    Originally posted by Vasel
    I have had a few beers with the CGI QA team and can assure you that SC is not vapor ware. It will take a lot longer to get done than we all would like. If your not interested then dont support it. No one is forcing you.

    The problem on getting feedback with employees is that they do not know the big picture in general, and they can be just as deceived by a money maker focused boss as his fans. They usually are.

    But you can be sure that every single one of them think first in what is best for them and considering that the revenue of this company comes regardless results, and that effectiveness would make sure to they lose their job sooner (since majority will be cut on release), I am sure that a lot of these employees are not really "doing their best" to be more effective.

    That's pretty obvious. And that is what those people earns by rewarding their lack of effectiveness with more money. I am pretty sure that the majority of their employees also are newbies, very low paycheck, which makes easier for Roberts to save money along the road, as well as, naturally to provoke more causes for delays, caused by the general inexperience of the team which leads to more bugs, reworks and so on. 

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