Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Is down scaling bad?

nolic1nolic1 Member UncommonPosts: 716

So after seeing many posts about the new down scaling I decided to go research it my self to see just how much different it was and found some things that made me wonder even more if it was intended or was supposed to be there in the first place. Check out the link below to see the video I did on it.

 

Video Link : Guild Wars 2 Down Scaling

 

I hope you all have your own input for this and see you in game.

Sherman's Gaming

Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online

Channel:http://https//www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw

«13

Comments

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,065

    From my own research you can now make a low level character that has way more of one attribute than a down scaled level 80, while before it didn't happen.

    Considering early game power is the way to go and not much else matter, the real low level character as long as it doesn't die will do more damage that a down scaled character. So we have a glass cannon (real low level) vs a well rounded character (down scaled).

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,408

    This is interesting. What triggered a change in behavior? Has this caused problems or complaints?

    My impression is what Gaia said, that a higher level character will be more well rounded. They have more traits and skills to choose from too.

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • nolic1nolic1 Member UncommonPosts: 716
    Yes your more well rounded and I even made a video explaining in more detail the difference and what it means in fact its uploading now as I type this. But in truth there is more taken away when you down scale then before to put you on a more equal field to those of the level of the area you go to. Its more like the difference in Exalted gear and ascended gear at level 80 now then before. But it is really interesting that they did not just remove level for it as I explain in my video.

    Sherman's Gaming

    Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online

    Channel:http://https//www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw

  • flizzerflizzer Member RarePosts: 2,442
    Downscaling is one of the major reasons I love GW2.
  • MargraveMargrave Member RarePosts: 1,249
    Originally posted by DMKano
    For me downscaling is the worst feature period. It's the reason why I dont play GW2. Being forced to scale down simply by entering a lower level area - ugh no thanks. Make it optional - forcing me to be weaker, yeah I'll pass.

    ^ This.

     

    It doesn't encourage friends to play with someone with a high level character that CAN'T just WTF PWN everything low level.

     

    That's why we went to a different title. I'm not going to say which as I hate when someone is in a forum for game A, and won't stop talking about game B. Such bad taste.

  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Member RarePosts: 1,673
    Originally posted by DMKano
    For me downscaling is the worst feature period. It's the reason why I dont play GW2. Being forced to scale down simply by entering a lower level area - ugh no thanks. Make it optional - forcing me to be weaker, yeah I'll pass.

    I do not understand how it makes you weaker. You scale from 80 to 20 in a zone 20-25 and fluctuates as you move in and out of areas throughout the map. You are not weaker than any mob or difficult for you to kill if you were actually at level 20.

    If you are just talking about being level 80 and just face rolling level 20 mobs. What’s the point in that?

    MMORPGs aren't easy, You're just too PRO!
  • MargraveMargrave Member RarePosts: 1,249

    The point would be that some of us enjoy the gameplay of face rolling any mobs.

     

    Luckily other games/companies are more than willing to offer it.

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,408
    Originally posted by nolic1
    Yes your more well rounded and I even made a video explaining in more detail the difference and what it means in fact its uploading now as I type this. But in truth there is more taken away when you down scale then before to put you on a more equal field to those of the level of the area you go to. Its more like the difference in Exalted gear and ascended gear at level 80 now then before. But it is really interesting that they did not just remove level for it as I explain in my video.

    Downscaling was pretty OP before and it wasn't a secret. Maybe they decided to keep early levels more challenging rather than total faceroll. Not sure really.

    I did watch the video as much as I could earlier while I was on lunch and most of it made sense.

    The removal of levels is a psychological thing I think. They have essentially removed levels for all practical purposes, but they left the counter there. People like the counter. It was a chief complaint in GW1 - how you got to level 20 so fast and there was nothing outward to show for it afterwards except your gear appearance. I think they want levels to have as little impact as possible in the game without taking way that sense of the progression. That's my guess anyway.

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • parpinparpin Member UncommonPosts: 220

    gw2 in future will have only level 80 zones like hot..basically no more leveling..all the content in the future including hot will be 80 only.

    you just need world completion for crafting legendary weapons..and for that you are strong enough..so do not worry about it..

  • nolic1nolic1 Member UncommonPosts: 716

    So here is the other video I did that shows a little more on how the new down scaling works its also kind of fun to do naked play through of content now that I have tested it.

     

    Down Scaling part 2

     

    Hope you see what I mean now its not that bad it really makes you feel equal to players in the other areas now. Next I would love to try a naked dungeon run to see how much different it would be.

    Sherman's Gaming

    Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online

    Channel:http://https//www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,634

    Downscaling is a blessing in mmos. Regardless of your level/gear you still have a challenge wherever you go.

    Low level zones become wasted resources in mmos because it is inevitable that those zones will be empty when not enough new players/alts are being made. Downscaling keeps low level zones persistent between players of all levels.

     

    Sure adding more new zones is always great, but that doesnt mean existing lower level zones have to be forgotten, mind as well remove them from the game if there is no downscaling.

     

    EDIT: and without downscaling, then why not remove levels from the game? it has the same possitive effect of making every zone challenging regardless of player progression.





  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 7,982
     Boring crap mechanic that makes every fight feel the same .........
  • rodingorodingo Member RarePosts: 2,870
    Originally posted by Margrave

    The point would be that some of us enjoy the gameplay of face rolling any mobs.

     

    Luckily other games/companies are more than willing to offer it.

    Yes there are many others to choose from that all pretty much take a similar approach with each other in regards to general MMO mechanics.  I'm glad there is at least ONE MMO that does things differently.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,408
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by StoneRoses
    Originally posted by DMKano
    For me downscaling is the worst feature period. It's the reason why I dont play GW2. Being forced to scale down simply by entering a lower level area - ugh no thanks. Make it optional - forcing me to be weaker, yeah I'll pass.

    I do not understand how it makes you weaker. You scale from 80 to 20 in a zone 20-25 and fluctuates as you move in and out of areas throughout the map. You are not weaker than any mob or difficult for you to kill if you were actually at level 20.

    If you are just talking about being level 80 and just face rolling level 20 mobs. What’s the point in that?

    Absolutely I should be able to faceroll lowrer levle mobs.

    What's the point of levels really?

    If you have a level based game with level progression - max level is superior to loser levels and should absolutely wtfpwn noob mobs.

    I can't tell you how awesome the feeling was when I hit 100 in EQ1 and could faceroll content that was super hard for me even at level 90.

    Or pulling an entire zone of 200+ mobs and just killing them all in a matter of minutes.

    It gives you a sense of your levels meaning something, your character actually being powerful.

    in GW2 a level 80 feels week even vs level 5s because of downscaling.

    I understand some like this - I hate it.

    The OP is talking about the new downscaling changes. It would have been better if the OP title and post had mentioned changes a little clearer when asking the question.

    Whether you like downscaling or the downscaling changes are two different beasts. Personally I like both. I like downscaling or automatic level scaling.

    Level 80 characters can faceroll in level 5 zones, just nite quite so easily now. That's what this change is about.

    I would also like upscaling but with the idea that an upscaled character is going to be underpowered for that level, but people could band together for safety and efficiency.

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • rodingorodingo Member RarePosts: 2,870
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by StoneRoses
    Originally posted by DMKano
    For me downscaling is the worst feature period. It's the reason why I dont play GW2. Being forced to scale down simply by entering a lower level area - ugh no thanks. Make it optional - forcing me to be weaker, yeah I'll pass.

    I do not understand how it makes you weaker. You scale from 80 to 20 in a zone 20-25 and fluctuates as you move in and out of areas throughout the map. You are not weaker than any mob or difficult for you to kill if you were actually at level 20.

    If you are just talking about being level 80 and just face rolling level 20 mobs. What’s the point in that?

    Absolutely I should be able to faceroll lowrer levle mobs.

    What's the point of levels really?

    If you have a level based game with level progression - max level is superior to loser levels and should absolutely wtfpwn noob mobs.

    I can't tell you how awesome the feeling was when I hit 100 in EQ1 and could faceroll content that was super hard for me even at level 90.

    Or pulling an entire zone of 200+ mobs and just killing them all in a matter of minutes.

    It gives you a sense of your levels meaning something, your character actually being powerful.

    in GW2 a level 80 feels week even vs level 5s because of downscaling.

    I understand some like this - I hate it.

     

    If you indeed have a lvl 80 in GW2, and the character does indeed feel weak to you in lower levels, then you really don't know how to play your character at the slightest bit. 

     

    I could lick my keyboard with my eyes closed and control my mouse with my toes and still go through downscaled areas with ease.

     

    Of course there is no way for me to prove that you do not have a lvl 80 or for you to prove that you have one for that matter, but something tells me you said that becuase you read it from someone else on the internetz, who read it from someone else, who read it from someone else, and so on, and so on....

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    Its just so unrealistic, but par for the course in modern MMOs.  As far as I'm concerned, you are either of a certain strength and level, or you aren't.  The idea of magically becoming weaker or stronger based on where in the world you are is a huge immersion breaker.


  • ragz45ragz45 Member UncommonPosts: 810
    Originally posted by DMKano
    For me downscaling is the worst feature period. It's the reason why I dont play GW2. Being forced to scale down simply by entering a lower level area - ugh no thanks. Make it optional - forcing me to be weaker, yeah I'll pass.

    I love it, and think it's one of the best features of the game.  When I'm playing with my level 14 friend on my level 80, it doesn't feel like I'm a god, it feels like I'm on par with my buddy.  Which makes it all the more fun and exciting to play together.  Then again, I'm not a player that focuses 100% on end game or pvp.  I enjoy the journey...

    Different strokes.....

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,408
    Originally posted by nolic1

    So here is the other video I did that shows a little more on how the new down scaling works its also kind of fun to do naked play through of content now that I have tested it.

    Down Scaling part 2

    Hope you see what I mean now its not that bad it really makes you feel equal to players in the other areas now. Next I would love to try a naked dungeon run to see how much different it would be.

    The second video made it a bit clearer and seemed a little more focused. I don't think it's bad at all and like I said earlier the level numbers really are about tracking progress more than anything. Some people need that.

    I subscribed to your channel. I'm not a big video or let's play watcher, but I liked your video.

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Member RarePosts: 1,673
    Originally posted by Dullahan
    Its just so unrealistic, but par for the course in modern MMOs.  As far as I'm concerned, you are either of a certain strength and level, or you aren't.  The idea of magically becoming weaker or stronger based on where in the world you are is a huge immersion breaker.

    Realistic to what exactly? I must be living under a rock.

    If you want immersion in GW2 there is a lot of it. play a Celestial Eng build.

    MMORPGs aren't easy, You're just too PRO!
  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Member RarePosts: 1,673
    Originally posted by Torval
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by StoneRoses
    Originally posted by DMKano
    For me downscaling is the worst feature period. It's the reason why I dont play GW2. Being forced to scale down simply by entering a lower level area - ugh no thanks. Make it optional - forcing me to be weaker, yeah I'll pass.

    I do not understand how it makes you weaker. You scale from 80 to 20 in a zone 20-25 and fluctuates as you move in and out of areas throughout the map. You are not weaker than any mob or difficult for you to kill if you were actually at level 20.

    If you are just talking about being level 80 and just face rolling level 20 mobs. What’s the point in that?

    Absolutely I should be able to faceroll lowrer levle mobs.

    What's the point of levels really?

    If you have a level based game with level progression - max level is superior to loser levels and should absolutely wtfpwn noob mobs.

    I can't tell you how awesome the feeling was when I hit 100 in EQ1 and could faceroll content that was super hard for me even at level 90.

    Or pulling an entire zone of 200+ mobs and just killing them all in a matter of minutes.

    It gives you a sense of your levels meaning something, your character actually being powerful.

    in GW2 a level 80 feels week even vs level 5s because of downscaling.

    I understand some like this - I hate it.

    The OP is talking about the new downscaling changes. It would have been better if the OP title and post had mentioned changes a little clearer when asking the question.

    Whether you like downscaling or the downscaling changes are two different beasts. Personally I like both. I like downscaling or automatic level scaling.

    Level 80 characters can faceroll in level 5 zones, just nite quite so easily now. That's what this change is about.

    I would also like upscaling but with the idea that an upscaled character is going to be underpowered for that level, but people could band together for safety and efficiency.

    Didn't CoH have this feature?  could have sworn they did, it was such a long time ago.

    MMORPGs aren't easy, You're just too PRO!
  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,858
    I love downscaling. I usually play games with my kids but seeing how they work and I'm retired I have to wait on them. GW2 lets me play as much as I want and not worry too much about outleveling them. It's always fun for me to go back and enjoy areas that I have done and play again still getting something out of it, instead of just checking it off the map as a useless completed area like in other titles.

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    Originally posted by StoneRoses
    Originally posted by Dullahan
    Its just so unrealistic, but par for the course in modern MMOs.  As far as I'm concerned, you are either of a certain strength and level, or you aren't.  The idea of magically becoming weaker or stronger based on where in the world you are is a huge immersion breaker.

    Realistic to what exactly? I must be living under a rock.

    If you want immersion in GW2 there is a lot of it. play a Celestial Eng build.

    I'm sorry, but if I really have to explain how its unrealistic that I become more or less powerful based on where I'm standing in the world, you are obviously only asking to white knight for the game.


  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by nolic1

    So after seeing many posts about the new down scaling I decided to go research it my self to see just how much different it was and found some things that made me wonder even more if it was intended or was supposed to be there in the first place. Check out the link below to see the video I did on it.

    Video Link : Guild Wars 2 Down Scaling

    I hope you all have your own input for this and see you in game.

    Good vid man, and you're absolutely right.

    However, the problem w/ GW2 is that Anet is essentially stuck in a Catch-22 situation.

    They have designed (and like to design) games that are not based around the typical vertical progression models. However, the majority of gamers are still hooked on that type of design. It's why nearly every game nowadays has some kind of arbitrary leveling system (shooters, racing games, etc.).

    So, as you're vid points out, the levels are mostly there as an illusion. They cater to that sense of progression, without really affecting gameplay. This is both good and bad, because on the one hand they help bring more players into the game; but on the other they mask what would otherwise be a fairly seamless experience (in being able to play w/ friends).

    You also get people (like some of the other posters in this thread), who are used to that artificial power curve, and don't like when a game appears to take it away from them. Even though, as you point out in your video, the differences really aren't that severe.

    - Personally, I would prefer the game to not have levels, but I also know that would throw a lot of people off. The amount of "what am I supposed to do in this game!?!" 'anything you want' "I don't get it!" would increase, which is really unfortunate. That said, you are correct in that they have the setup to where they could normalize all the levels without affecting gameplay much.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,951
    Originally posted by DMKano
    For me downscaling is the worst feature period. It's the reason why I dont play GW2. Being forced to scale down simply by entering a lower level area - ugh no thanks. Make it optional - forcing me to be weaker, yeah I'll pass.

    I kind of agree which is why Guild Wars 2 really isn't a major game for me.

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Ah thanks for clarifying this - the last time I logged into the game was the launch month, so I have no clue what changes were done in the last couple of years.

    There's been a lot of QOL and systems improvements over the years, but the base gameplay is more or less the same.

     

Sign In or Register to comment.