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They still refuse to offer an expansion only copy

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  • grimalgrimal Member UncommonPosts: 2,920
    Originally posted by Torval
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by Volkon

    I said it was never a standalone, you said I was wrong... then posted a link showinng that it never was a standalone. I have no idea where you're going with this.

    The only difference is that they added the core for free when you buy the expansion now. Either way, it's still not a standalone, you need the core to play.

     

    In their original FAQ, there is an implication that one would need to buy the core game in order to play the expansion.  I inferred this as did many many others.  In fact, ANET actually reimbursed people that bought the core game recently just for the expansion to correct this mistake on their part. 

    This implication further suggests that the core game is independent of the expansion.  Otherwise, why would it be worded as such originally: "therefore it requires the base game to play."  If this was always intended to be bundled together, why the sudden change in the FAQ and the outrage of many users due to it?

    Yes, early on it seems they were going to sell the base game and the xpac separately. They either changed their position on this or they clarified a poorly worded position. It doesn't matter though because they did clarify it. The game isn't compartmentalized it is sold as a single unit. You can upgrade your account or buy a new account that includes all the previous content for that price.

    Who cares why and what the motives for the change are unless you're just trying to pick apart everything to find fault. They made the change to try and please more customers and make more money. Conjecturing on the past motives of what might have been is just forum fapping.

    I care.  I want to know if there is more to the expansion or if it's a money grab by ANET.

  • GaleOmGaleOm Member UncommonPosts: 28
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by Torval
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by Volkon

    I said it was never a standalone, you said I was wrong... then posted a link showinng that it never was a standalone. I have no idea where you're going with this.

    The only difference is that they added the core for free when you buy the expansion now. Either way, it's still not a standalone, you need the core to play.

     

    In their original FAQ, there is an implication that one would need to buy the core game in order to play the expansion.  I inferred this as did many many others.  In fact, ANET actually reimbursed people that bought the core game recently just for the expansion to correct this mistake on their part. 

    This implication further suggests that the core game is independent of the expansion.  Otherwise, why would it be worded as such originally: "therefore it requires the base game to play."  If this was always intended to be bundled together, why the sudden change in the FAQ and the outrage of many users due to it?

    Yes, early on it seems they were going to sell the base game and the xpac separately. They either changed their position on this or they clarified a poorly worded position. It doesn't matter though because they did clarify it. The game isn't compartmentalized it is sold as a single unit. You can upgrade your account or buy a new account that includes all the previous content for that price.

    Who cares why and what the motives for the change are unless you're just trying to pick apart everything to find fault. They made the change to try and please more customers and make more money. Conjecturing on the past motives of what might have been is just forum fapping.

    I care.  I want to know if there is more to the expansion or if it's a money grab by ANET.

    money grab??? well how do you call then overload of free content in last few years?

  • grimalgrimal Member UncommonPosts: 2,920
    Originally posted by GaleOm
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by Torval
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by Volkon

    I said it was never a standalone, you said I was wrong... then posted a link showinng that it never was a standalone. I have no idea where you're going with this.

    The only difference is that they added the core for free when you buy the expansion now. Either way, it's still not a standalone, you need the core to play.

     

    In their original FAQ, there is an implication that one would need to buy the core game in order to play the expansion.  I inferred this as did many many others.  In fact, ANET actually reimbursed people that bought the core game recently just for the expansion to correct this mistake on their part. 

    This implication further suggests that the core game is independent of the expansion.  Otherwise, why would it be worded as such originally: "therefore it requires the base game to play."  If this was always intended to be bundled together, why the sudden change in the FAQ and the outrage of many users due to it?

    Yes, early on it seems they were going to sell the base game and the xpac separately. They either changed their position on this or they clarified a poorly worded position. It doesn't matter though because they did clarify it. The game isn't compartmentalized it is sold as a single unit. You can upgrade your account or buy a new account that includes all the previous content for that price.

    Who cares why and what the motives for the change are unless you're just trying to pick apart everything to find fault. They made the change to try and please more customers and make more money. Conjecturing on the past motives of what might have been is just forum fapping.

    I care.  I want to know if there is more to the expansion or if it's a money grab by ANET.

    money grab??? well how do you call then overload of free content in last few years?

    I've stated before and am not going to repeat myself. 

     

  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Member RarePosts: 1,675
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by StoneRoses
     Originally posted by SteeJanz

    Again, not completely true on the "limited" run for free statement.  I have taken a buddy of mine through a chapter of the LS so that he didn't have to pay for it.  I can take you tomorrow.  It only becomes part of  revenue stream if the consumer chooses it for convenience sake.  And whether we like it or not, it isn't up to us to determine what others are willing to contribute to the cash shop for the convenience of not farming for gold or having a friend.

    I agree with you if a purchase is required to obtain the content.   But when a developer provides multiple avenues to obtaining missed content, we as players should be encouraging it.   Again, I like your argument but I believe you are stretching it in its application here.  For your box price, you can experience the LS content that you missed without paying for it.  You can argue the ways to obtain it, but you have a choice whether to contribute to the cash shop or not and still get the content.  

    I guess I should have worded it that it is disingenuous not mention all options in your argument. 

    People do not want options or they ignore it all together. They see a price tag on it and it suddenly becomes an issue.

     

    Who said anything about  them charging for it being an issue? I also didn't ignore it, that point came with the original post by MadOtak. which I responded to,  Let me put it as plainly as possible, you can't argue something is free, while a company makes a dime off someone for it. No matter how you slice it or the options available, they're still making money off of it. WHich means you can't turn around and say, that's part of the box fee...How hard is that to understand?

    I see what you did there. Let me slide it back in so you can better understand I quoted SteeJanz.

    LS = Living Story.

    People were shitting bricks over having to pay to unlock living story episodes. Rather than taking the advise many have suggested they focused on the price tag and nothing else.

     

    MMORPGs aren't easy, You're just too PRO!
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,410
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by Torval
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by Volkon

    I said it was never a standalone, you said I was wrong... then posted a link showinng that it never was a standalone. I have no idea where you're going with this.

    The only difference is that they added the core for free when you buy the expansion now. Either way, it's still not a standalone, you need the core to play.

     

    In their original FAQ, there is an implication that one would need to buy the core game in order to play the expansion.  I inferred this as did many many others.  In fact, ANET actually reimbursed people that bought the core game recently just for the expansion to correct this mistake on their part. 

    This implication further suggests that the core game is independent of the expansion.  Otherwise, why would it be worded as such originally: "therefore it requires the base game to play."  If this was always intended to be bundled together, why the sudden change in the FAQ and the outrage of many users due to it?

    Yes, early on it seems they were going to sell the base game and the xpac separately. They either changed their position on this or they clarified a poorly worded position. It doesn't matter though because they did clarify it. The game isn't compartmentalized it is sold as a single unit. You can upgrade your account or buy a new account that includes all the previous content for that price.

    Who cares why and what the motives for the change are unless you're just trying to pick apart everything to find fault. They made the change to try and please more customers and make more money. Conjecturing on the past motives of what might have been is just forum fapping.

    I care.  I want to know if there is more to the expansion or if it's a money grab by ANET.

    You stated before that you've played less than a year and implied by your tone and the context, and how you vaguely left that unclear even after you corrected someone stating it was 3 weeks. Doesn't it seem like the wisest choice for someone in your position, with your doubts, to wait until after release to make a decision? Speculation, conjecture, and nit-picking others motives won't answer your question. Time and the content release will.

    That's all I'm really saying, people that are ambivalent, skeptical, or unsatisfied should just wait a bit. Nitpicking over a mistake corrected is just petty and and goes nowhere.

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by Dakeru
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by Volkon

    You have evidence of this assertion?

    Here you go:  http://imgur.com/SAsawP8

    This is a snapshot taken by a user to show the FAQ before and after.

    I'm amazed anyone is even asking for proof. I thought it was commonly known that Anet plain lied in this matter.

     

    Inb4 fans jump in: "They didn't lie, they are just giving away the game for free now!"

    I said trolls will be trolling no matter what ANet did.

    And i was right, as usual.

    But its STILL funny as hell.

  • Leon1eLeon1e Member UncommonPosts: 791

    Y'all carry heads on your shoulders. Don't enforce your opinion on others. Me and my boyfriend bought the ultimate package. We bought the Fallout 4 pipboy edition too. We love gaming and we love perks. We've easily sunk over 2000 hours in almost 3 years. To us, price is justified. If it isn't to you, don't call people like us silly. Just move on with your lives and/or wait for discount.

     

    What is your goal here exactly? Moaning in hopes ANet would lower price? Or that they'd offer separate expansion only copy? Let me assure you, that won't happen. It's not even up to them at this point. Complain to NCSoft. 

    You carry your head on your shoulders and make the best decision you think is right *for you*. 

     

    Either that or you could go to Lamborghini and ask them to sell you chasis only version of their top car xD (just to put things in perspective) 

  • BladestromBladestrom Member UncommonPosts: 5,001

    Its pretty pathetic.  If for example I had a an album that i purchased on my phone, and i found out that album was given as a bonus for free if you purchased the new album by the same artist i would not humphing and tutting like a child because other people got that album for free.

     

    Wanting others to have less so you feel as if you are getting more is the worst kind of selfishness there is.

     

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • NailzzzNailzzz Member UncommonPosts: 515
    Originally posted by Bladestrom

    Its pretty pathetic.  If for example I had a an album that i purchased on my phone, and i found out that album was given as a bonus for free if you purchased the new album by the same artist i would not humphing and tutting like a child because other people got that album for free.

     

    Wanting others to have less so you feel as if you are getting more is the worst kind of selfishness there is.

     

     Your comparison is lacking a lot of context. A more apt comparison would be that the artist released a single that only contains 1 track and 2 remixes of that one track, yet was selling it at the same price as a full length album. Then throwing in an old album for free that you already own to justify the price.

     If you already own that old album, is paying full album costs for a single really worth it? If you wouldn't accept this at a record store, why is it ok here?

    As for your presumption that this is based on wanting to screw over new players in the process, No one has suggested that. Using the earlier example of the albums, if you didn't already have the older album, then buying the single which comes with the full length album for the price of the full length album is a good deal. Just as i would certainly encourage new players to purchase the new guild wars expansion, as it is a good deal for them. No one is complaining about allowing new players to get the whole game for the base game price. No one is advocating for a high barrier of entry for new players. The only argument here is whether an expansion with a tiny fragment of the content compared to the base game is worth as much money to people as the base game since if you already have the base game, that is all that you are getting. Otherwise what good does it do an old player to buy the base game twice?

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,410
    Originally posted by Nailzzz
    Originally posted by Bladestrom

    Its pretty pathetic.  If for example I had a an album that i purchased on my phone, and i found out that album was given as a bonus for free if you purchased the new album by the same artist i would not humphing and tutting like a child because other people got that album for free.

    Wanting others to have less so you feel as if you are getting more is the worst kind of selfishness there is.

     Your comparison is lacking a lot of context. A more apt comparison would be that the artist released a single that only contains 1 track and 2 remixes of that one track, yet was selling it at the same price as a full length album. Then throwing in an old album for free that you already own to justify the price.

     If you already own that old album, is paying full album costs for a single really worth it? If you wouldn't accept this at a record store, why is it ok here?

    As for your presumption that this is based on wanting to screw over new players in the process, No one has suggested that. Using the earlier example of the albums, if you didn't already have the older album, then buying the single which comes with the full length album for the price of the full length album is a good deal. Just as i would certainly encourage new players to purchase the new guild wars expansion, as it is a good deal for them. No one is complaining about allowing new players to get the whole game for the base game price. No one is advocating for a high barrier of entry for new players. The only argument here is whether an expansion with a tiny fragment of the content compared to the base game is worth as much money to people as the base game since if you already have the base game, that is all that you are getting. Otherwise what good does it do an old player to buy the base game twice?

    Your comparison suits your purposes better, but isn't more apt. The new album, old album analogy is fitting here. This isn't a "single" release. It's an album. It's an expansion with a new class, expansions of old classes, a new region with zones, new pvp maps, and more. You keep pushing the word single because you're trying desperately to paint this as having very little value to everyone.

    His analogy is interesting because I recently backed a KS for a band I like and one of their stretch goals was a digital download of a previous release.

    What's funny is that fans of a band will pay big bucks for a rare single or a rare pressing of a previous release. We're like that. Fans of the game will pay the $50 for expac because they want it. Many will prepurchase it so they can get an extra character slot now.

    Anet really isn't stingy. I already got my 2 extra character slots, all the digital goodies, and the 4k gems. They're not making me wait for the big bash release like some publishers have done with their xpac goodies. I like that, but then I'm a fan of the game and a $100 for what I got is a good value to me.

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • NailzzzNailzzz Member UncommonPosts: 515
    Originally posted by Torval
    Originally posted by Nailzzz
    Originally posted by Bladestrom

    Its pretty pathetic.  If for example I had a an album that i purchased on my phone, and i found out that album was given as a bonus for free if you purchased the new album by the same artist i would not humphing and tutting like a child because other people got that album for free.

    Wanting others to have less so you feel as if you are getting more is the worst kind of selfishness there is.

     Your comparison is lacking a lot of context. A more apt comparison would be that the artist released a single that only contains 1 track and 2 remixes of that one track, yet was selling it at the same price as a full length album. Then throwing in an old album for free that you already own to justify the price.

     If you already own that old album, is paying full album costs for a single really worth it? If you wouldn't accept this at a record store, why is it ok here?

    As for your presumption that this is based on wanting to screw over new players in the process, No one has suggested that. Using the earlier example of the albums, if you didn't already have the older album, then buying the single which comes with the full length album for the price of the full length album is a good deal. Just as i would certainly encourage new players to purchase the new guild wars expansion, as it is a good deal for them. No one is complaining about allowing new players to get the whole game for the base game price. No one is advocating for a high barrier of entry for new players. The only argument here is whether an expansion with a tiny fragment of the content compared to the base game is worth as much money to people as the base game since if you already have the base game, that is all that you are getting. Otherwise what good does it do an old player to buy the base game twice?

    Your comparison suits your purposes better, but isn't more apt. The new album, old album analogy is fitting here. This isn't a "single" release. It's an album. It's an expansion with a new class, expansions of old classes, a new region with zones, new pvp maps, and more. You keep pushing the word single because you're trying desperately to paint this as having very little value to everyone.

    His analogy is interesting because I recently backed a KS for a band I like and one of their stretch goals was a digital download of a previous release.

    What's funny is that fans of a band will pay big bucks for a rare single or a rare pressing of a previous release. We're like that. Fans of the game will pay the $50 for expac because they want it. Many will prepurchase it so they can get an extra character slot now.

    Anet really isn't stingy. I already got my 2 extra character slots, all the digital goodies, and the 4k gems. They're not making me wait for the big bash release like some publishers have done with their xpac goodies. I like that, but then I'm a fan of the game and a $100 for what I got is a good value to me.

     So you believe that this expansion is comparable in content to the base game then? Because that is the only way this is a straight album to album comparison. We are dealing with the same domestically released bands product after all (Arenanet) so bringing import costs doesn't make sense in this analogy. There is no cap on this "albums" distribution so rarity isn't a factor. And KS is just a step up from charity and NCsoft/Arenanet is not anywhere near a charity case. I'm glad that you feel that this is worth buying the box set for, but not everyone is going find all of the goodies that worth while. If you aren't into alts, 2 more character slots aren't likely to matter, for example.

     If it makes you feel better, we can go so far as to refer to the expansion as an E.P.(typically 4 new tracks) if that makes you feel better about the comparison. But that still doesn't justify it being the same price as a full length album unless you want to make the claim that the amount of content in the new expansion is more than just a small part of the content of the base game. So far there has been little to suggest that this is the case.

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,973
    If they had put the new class in the cash shop for $50.00, I would have bought it just to play a new class, the new zones and skill trees i don't really care about.  Just a little extra icing on the cake.  So for me it's worth it.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,858
    Originally posted by Octagon7711
    If they had put the new class in the cash shop for $50.00, I would have bought it just to play a new class, the new zones and skill trees i don't really care about.  Just a little extra icing on the cake.  So for me it's worth it.

    I agree.

    I guess it comes down to if your a fan of the game or not. I bought the Ultimate version of the expansion. Lots of new content, including that class, and gems...not to mention I'm supporting something I have been playing for 3 years.

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • dontadowdontadow Member UncommonPosts: 1,005

    From a marketing point of view, purely from that, this is has been a bad idea all around and certainly will work negatievely against getting returning players to rejoin the fold. 

    The presentation is poor.  What would be more effective is to say "hey this is the new expansion" and for a limited time or with a special code get the real one free.  This puts the expansion up front as the cost and the base game as free.

    As it stands, I can not think of a single game whose expansion released at such a higher cost point over the base game (whereas the base game has only decreased in price by 30 to 40 percent since launch).  In other words, people expect an expansion to be less than the base game's initial launch, if not significanntly less.  The message anet is sending now is that u have to buy the base game (reatailed at 20 - 30 now) to get the expansion (which looks to be an average expansion price of 20 dollars).  

    They are doing a poor job of presenting the expansion as worth 50 dollars and buy autobundling the base game they are showing their own confidence in the expansions worth. 

    The besst recovery for them is to offer an expansion only for 35 to 40, and refunding those with who prepurchased and giving them something to show good faith in the community.   

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,065
    Considering the metric ton of Revenants walking around the HoT pre-purchase seems to be doing fine.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • Good_ApolloGood_Apollo Member UncommonPosts: 55
    Originally posted by Betakodo
    Originally posted by Maelzrael

    Dear Op, 

     

    Don't buy it then. There is no SUB, it's a fair price for free content there-on-after. 

     

    End

    There is cash shop. Also, if you didn't log in for Living story season 2, you had to pay 200 gems for it or something like 800 for the whole set. How do we know they're not going to pull that again?

    To the "Freerers", just because a marketing team labels something as "Free", doesn't make it so. Do you get to play Guild Wars if you pay $0? Of course not, you have to buy HoT.

    So, how many people claiming it's "Free" actually own Guild Wars 2 already anyways? It's a slap in the face of the millions of people who already own the game. Yes, it makes good business sense to bundle it if you want to attract new players, but for their existing customer base, they should have offered it as less for just the expansion. Both you and I know that the cost of the core game is factored into the $50. For the $50 price point, what do they offer to the people who left Guild Wars 2?

    The only true free games are the F2P where yes, we've paid $0 to play. In Guild Wars 2, you paid $50 to have a inventory bag slot locked, legalized RMT, "Convenience" locked away on purpose and most all the good looking armors and weapons in the cash shop.

    P.S

    Guild halls were a feature that were supposed to be released with Guild Wars 2's original release. Then they said they were releasing it later. Now it's a main feature of HoT. I'm curious if some guild halls are going to be cash shop only.

     

    All I get from this is, "Should have never forced out subscription model based games."

     

    =)

     

    In my opinion, sub based games are still the best idea for this genre. Everyone pays the same and is on equal footing, no cash shop nonsense. But no, people wrongly perceived that as being shafted somehow despite the benefits it provided. Welp, this is what we get for pushing the subscription model into obscurity, ENJOY!

     

    Still riles me up that there are those out there who still don't seem to get that MMO's have a continued development cost that is completely different from single player games. Subscriptions solved this problem, and $15 a month is absolute peanuts. But no, not good enough for the penny pinchers out there, so companies adapted and came up with the cash shop which doesn't work unless highly incentivized. Once again, the community has to reap what it sowed.

  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,797

    edit:

    NVM this is just too dull to even bother

    Harbinger of Fools
  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Member UncommonPosts: 1,986
    Originally posted by Kilrain
    Character slot for pre-owning sounds about right to me.
     
    Think about all the $15/mo games that would charge $50 for the base game and $50 per expansion, not including the original game for several years.
     
    This isn't a bad deal at all. People are just getting more and more greedy.

    I would say people are getting more money conscience and that's not just the gaming industry, it's society wide.

  • MagikarpsGhostMagikarpsGhost Member RarePosts: 689
    Originally posted by Betakodo

    So they now offer a character slot if you activated the game before a certain date. They should have done that in the first place (See Guild Wars Factions and Nightfall which they did without cash shop items in the game). The game is still too expensive in my opinion for what they claim to have in it, plus I'm pretty sure HoT is going to be loaded with cash shop items anyways.

     

     

    people complain about this but not when WoW charges 15 a month + 60 per expansion UNLESS you go collectors edition for 75. Really people get off your high horse, i rather pay another 50 then be done with it. Also the free character slot is a nice addition.

    Look to sum all this up i bought WoW for a friends bday it cost me 40+60=100 bucks + tax so it ended at around 107. 107 + 15 a month will just continue to add up where gw2 is 50 bucks for the WHOLE DAMN GAME. if you owned the game before hand then suck it up and pay the money. You already have a massive head start on those who will be new to the game. We know the ins and outs of the game and will be able to jump right in to the new content where the new players wont. I am tired of these self entitled brats constantly complaining about "no expansion only options"  Oh and to touch on the cash shop part of your post, NOTHING inside the cash shop is a MUST its all convinence items. AND you are able to convert gold to gems to buy them so even if HoT is heavy with cash shop it doesn ot effect your game at all. Also HoT will be adding a new area/new "sub classes" as i like to call them/ a new class/ gliding. so yes it is worth the 50 bucks MUCH MORE then WoD was.

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