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  • Atis-nobAtis-nob Member UncommonPosts: 98
    Originally posted by Kaputzy
    Originally posted by Atis-nob
    Originally posted by Copperfield
    Originally posted by Atis-nob
    This game is in development for ages, many sandbox titles were announces in that time. If repop wont release within ~9 months, other games will appear and sandbox population will spread among them. Sandboxers are less fickle so they wont drop their game of choice just because Repop got bigger skill tree. ABT better release before its too late and grab all players they can. Cut maps, models, sounds, just compete main systems, fluff and territory can be added later.

    funny hope people throw in facts based on own opinions

     

    There is not a single sandbox game in development  with the depth of the repopulation

     

    Seeing the low budget they had to work with.. i think this team has done a pretty good job

    Funny people throw in opinions without understanding marketing basics. Most players dont give a damn about vague stuff like depth, and those who do, dont measure it up like you. They see sandboxish enough for them games and jump to them. you can talk about depth till blue in face, NONE CARES, they see funny thing, they play it. Try to go in crowfall forum and persuade everyone how shallow game is in comparison, best answer you'll see will be "go and play repop if you like it so much".

     

    I hope somebody in ABT understands hype better that you or they'll end up with 100 players, pompously talking about depth in ghosttown.

     

    Marketing 101 by Atis-nob:

    Release unfinished game so that player base is not stolen by Mystery Game. Sandbox players are less fickle so will persevere with Mystery Game regardless of product quality or vague notion of game depth and complexity. All 'game depth' must be replaced by 'funny thing' to attract more players. They must see 'funny thing'. 'Funny thing' > game depth.

     

    image

     

    I can understand people getting anxious and want the game released sooner rather than later, but I'm relieved and reassured that the devs have continually reiterated that they will release the game 'when it is ready' and are taking serious strides to get it to that point.

    Your 'release it quick' strategy doesn't seem to have worked so well for other titles Atis-nob, but thanks for the lesson in 'marketing basics'. 

    Your complex and deep game strategy surely worked for Fallen Earth, Vanguard and other ghost-towns.

    EVE was released in completely broken state and is a king of sandboxes now. They didnt wait when competitors establish their titles, they started early and outlived other deep projects.

    Game's depth is not something measurable. You cant say "this title is 10% deeper than that", but you can say "this title is funnier to play for me". Depth requires time to understand, to feel, so it helps with retention but not with promotion. For getting initial players flow fun>depth any time.

     

    Blizzard can afford "when its ready", because it got tens of millions ?? followers, indie title - cant. If sandbox player starts in another game, gets tied in social life, builds a house, its much harder for him to properly try Repop later. So just dont release Repop later, main systems are almost ready and sandboxers can live without megatons of much initial content, release few months before competitors and use MMO hooks to your advantage. Repop's community, cities and perspectives should keep players from switching game, not wise versa.

     

    What exactly titles had all mechanics working, released early and fail?

     

    WOW got his pop because it started at right time, when potential MMO players were not hooked at another theme park. later projects were worthy themeparks but never had a chance for jack pot, WOWers had their game and wasnt looking for another.

     

    Right now there is a sandbox wave incoming because there is demand for such games. Repop can be forerunner and win big or follower and stay with tiniest pop of devoted fans.

    Also people follow people. Its not fun to play in semi-empty socially based MMO, so deep game with no people to play with will lose to shallower one with high pop. No initial pop mean no pop at all.

  • KaputzyKaputzy Member UncommonPosts: 91
    Originally posted by Atis-nob
    Snip*

    Your complex and deep game strategy surely worked for Fallen Earth, Vanguard and other ghost-towns.

    You're using examples of failed games that suffered because they were released unfinished, which is exactly what you are advocating and encouraging ABT do with The Repopulation!  

     

    EVE was released in completely broken state and is a king of sandboxes now. They didnt wait when competitors establish their titles, they started early and outlived other deep projects.

     

    I think you've nailed it! I hope all aspiring game developers are reading: The key to a successful game lies in releasing it early in 'a broken state'. Brilliant deduction! 

    I'm sure Eve's longevity despite a poor launch had nothing to do with a die-hard player base eager to play a space combat, sandbox MMO. Something that was unheard of at the time.

    Good games stand the test of time. It has nothing to do with 'whichever is released first is and will remain king', otherwise we'd all still be playing Ultima Online.

     

    Game's depth is not something measurable. You cant say "this title is 10% deeper than that", but you can say "this title is funnier to play for me".

     

    I don't even know where to being here...

    Who said anything about quantifying the level of depth in this or any other game? What are you even trying to say?

    Look, I can say (opinion) that Archeage has more depth than Pokemon Online. I could also say (opinion) that it is more fun to play. I've never heard anyone say (example) Archeage is 10% more fun than Pokemon Online, or Archeage is 10% deeper.  

    What you also fail to understand is that the level of depth and how much fun someone has playing a game, more often than not, go hand in hand. 

     

    Right now there is a sandbox wave incoming because there is demand for such games. Repop can be forerunner and win big or follower and stay with tiniest pop of devoted fans.

     

    Alternatively it could have an abysmal launch and turn people away forever.

    Or - Continue the solid work they're doing so that, on release, the game will meet expectations and have fulfilled its potential. Something we all know it has in abundance.

     

    To be honest Atis-noob, I get the impression you are very confused. That and I thank God you're not developing this (or any other) game.

     

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,206

    Your parents or peers have likely at one time said you get wiser with age.It is true,i have been there,i bought many games out of boredom, on a whim,they are not wise decisions,just as supporting unfinished games are not wise decisions.

    I am in much the same boat,i do not like much of what the genre is delivering us,it really seems like the effort has got worse.The reason the effort is worse is because developers have found a large market where by players now support less effort,so they figure why not take advantage of those people,screw the others,we just want to make money.

    My suggestion,learn from life as you go,realize your mistakes,stop supporting games you know almost nothing about,do the homework,watch Twitch TV streams,videos on you tube,get a better feel for a game before spending money.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • KaputzyKaputzy Member UncommonPosts: 91

    This game is actually really good though Wizardry, that's not what we're debating, we're in agreement there.

    The bone of contention is whether it should be released now, unfinished and with it's bugs, or they should do it when they have ironed these things out.

    It's surprising how many people here and on other forums are so keen for a quicker release. I think it boils down to the impatience in wanting to play the game without having to worry about progress being wiped. I get that, but for me there's a bigger picture.

  • Atis-nobAtis-nob Member UncommonPosts: 98
    Originally posted by Kaputzy
    Originally posted by Atis-nob
    Snip*

    Your complex and deep game strategy surely worked for Fallen Earth, Vanguard and other ghost-towns.

    You're using examples of failed games that suffered because they were released unfinished, which is exactly what you are advocating and encouraging ABT do with The Repopulation!  

     All MMORPGs release unfinished, only differense is how much they lack at release. Repop has enough for good start. My examples released DEEP and pretty unique, yet thats didnt save them.

    EVE was released in completely broken state and is a king of sandboxes now. They didnt wait when competitors establish their titles, they started early and outlived other deep projects.

     

    I think you've nailed it! I hope all aspiring game developers are reading: The key to a successful game lies in releasing it early in 'a broken state'. Brilliant deduction! 

       Worked for all "king of the hill" MMO projects. Young WoW had little in common with older superpopular WoW, from current WoWer early game mechanics was trainwreck. Eve was broken at release, SWG (Repop predecessor) was never finished, pure mix of half-made barely working mechanics during its entire life.

    I'm sure Eve's longevity despite a poor launch had nothing to do with a die-hard player base eager to play a space combat, sandbox MMO. Something that was unheard of at the time.

    Surely die-hard players NEVER wanted post-apocalyptic MMORPG like FallenEarth (often hailed as Fallout-esc MMO), massive serious fantasy MMORPG like Vanguard and many others. Only thing they ever wanted was space sim with politics so we got succesful EvE and bunch of failed games.

    Good games stand the test of time. It has nothing to do with 'whichever is released first is and will remain king', otherwise we'd all still be playing Ultima Online.

     

     Right, so all themeparks except WoW are bad, it's success has NOTHING to do with releasing early, when casual MMO crowd was completely unripe.

     

    Game's depth is not something measurable. You cant say "this title is 10% deeper than that", but you can say "this title is funnier to play for me".

     

    I don't even know where to being here...

    Who said anything about quantifying the level of depth in this or any other game? What are you even trying to say?

    Copperfield claimed that Repop depth somehow gonna beat other sandboxes, even if they release earlier. Players will instantly understand the need to drop their game of choice and flock to Repop, because it's superior depth is so obvious. Totally legit prediction, we always can measure depth and show comparison chart to players.

    Look, I can say (opinion) that Archeage has more depth than Pokemon Online. I could also say (opinion) that it is more fun to play. I've never heard anyone say (example) Archeage is 10% more fun than Pokemon Online, or Archeage is 10% deeper.  

    What you also fail to understand is that the level of depth and how much fun someone has playing a game, more often than not, go hand in hand. 

     What you fail to understand is how marketing works. Players wont know what is deep before playing it for certain amount of time, and you need something to hype them enough to get them try Repop. Now when they have released Everquest Next, Crowfall, Camelot Unchained, Start Citizen, Albion etc. how exactly you can pull them to Repop and show its depth?

    But when you have ZERO released sandboxes of that wave, Repop can be sold just as single full-fledged modern sandbox at market.

    Right now there is a sandbox wave incoming because there is demand for such games. Repop can be forerunner and win big or follower and stay with tiniest pop of devoted fans.

     Alternatively it could have an abysmal launch and turn people away forever.

    Or - Continue the solid work they're doing so that, on release, the game will meet expectations and have fulfilled its potential. Something we all know it has in abundance.

    Why would players even try 34896347548th sandbox of new wave? Just because you and 3 your friends promise them fulfilled potential? Thats huge selling point for sure.

    Why would they have abysmal launch if they finish all core mechanics, polish interface and get just enough content to make players busy for few months? Other content can be added later.

     

    To be honest Atis-noob, I get the impression you are very confused. That and I thank God you're not developing this (or any other) game.

    At least I can understand difference between developing and marketing, thats more than can be said about you. You live in some fantasy world where good product sells itself and players always know what game is deeper. In our cruel reality we need marketing for that and ABT has very little budget for that. Their best bet is to release first, grab whole sandbox crowd and hook them up, before competitors even get to beta, then use initial money flow to add content.

     

    While you are at it, could you remind me of other successful MMO titles, released right after big wave of direct competitors with bigger hype and budgets?

  • justmemyselfandijustmemyselfandi Member UncommonPosts: 559

    I own Repopulation. I play Repopulation. I like Repopulation.

    But if they release it now, or even anytime this year as they seem to be hoping, the game will never make it more than 6 months past launch.

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  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 10,749
    Originally posted by justmemyselfandi

    I own Repopulation. I play Repopulation. I like Repopulation.

    But if they release it now, or even anytime this year as they seem to be hoping, the game will never make it more than 6 months past launch.

    Given the incomplete state of the game currently, i would agree. Players aren't as forgiving these days as they were 10 years ago, when perhaps, the number of MMO's wasn't that great. Now there are plenty of games to choose from, so launching an incomplete game would probably doom the game to failure, if they are going to stand a chance with this game, they really need to make sure its complete, and working as intended, or else they will discover, as Warner Bros did recently with the new Batman game, that players are not willing to put up with that kind of BS anymore.image

  • psiicpsiic Member RarePosts: 1,612

    I backed this game pretty heavily from the very beginning, and have listened to concept after concept , promise after promise. I've pretty much written it off as either bad engine choice or lack of talent. 

    Not trying to be mean but let's be honest Repopulation is like MasterChef last night..

    Take a home cook and try and make them quality bakers and ya end up with something ugly to look at 

    image

     

    not done inside

     

    image

  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327

     

    Anyone suggesting for an MMORPG to be released in an unfinished buggy state knows nothing about MMORPGs or their history.

  • psiicpsiic Member RarePosts: 1,612
    Originally posted by LacedOpium

     

    Anyone suggesting for an MMORPG to be released in an unfinished buggy state knows nothing about MMORPGs or their history.

    This is always the excuse, but why not? Why can a game not be finished before they try and sell it. 

     

    It is a fucking excuse and a piss poor one at that.  When they make an mmo for consoles it's a finished game, so why should we accept anything less for pc's ? 

     

    Oh quick the optimization excuse.. ok fine add 2 months to optimize then release. 

     

    Gamers are addicts we have to have it as fast as they can push it, we started begging for fix before it was cooked and as long as we were paying they were happy to provide. 

    Somewhere it got all screwed up and they start to think they had the right to sell us unfinished buggy games, then it went even more crazy and they decided they had the right to sell us betas, then alphas, now they sell us concepts, sometimes not even that. 

    However just because we are stupid enough to pay for it does not mean they have the right to claim buggy and unfinished is the rule.

  • MardukkMardukk Member RarePosts: 2,206
    The game is much more polished than I expected in early alpha.  I do expect major improvements in combat and mob loot/PvE as a viable playstyle.  Currently they seem to have focused quite a bit on crafting...which is nice but they better throw a bone to PvEers or PvPers something.  Also the bit of world I ran around it felt walled off, sparse and not really sci fi.  I do have hope for the game as they have shown that they could put some complexity into the game just a few areas need some attention.
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,516
    Originally posted by LacedOpium

     

    Anyone suggesting for an MMORPG to be released in an unfinished buggy state knows nothing about MMORPGs or their history.

    This.  I can't believe people are advocating the release of a game before its ready in light of how just about every game with no exceptions has failed miserably after doing so. I'm not talking about a lite launch either, I mean launching a game like Repop now, unoptimized, and unfinished in about every way; not just finishing the main game and adding other systems later.

    Its suicide in this industry. Get an MMO education.


  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,776
    Is there a skill cap in this game .. if not , its a complete waste of time imo.
  • KaputzyKaputzy Member UncommonPosts: 91
    Originally posted by Scorchien
    Is there a skill cap in this game .. if not , its a complete waste of time imo.

    There are both soft and hard skill caps (6k/60k iirc).

  • HeretiqueHeretique Member RarePosts: 1,494
    The game needs A LOT of work, probably will be a long time before we see it in a beta state. Glad you're enjoying it for what it is now.
  • MaurgrimMaurgrim Member RarePosts: 1,197

    I have been playing it for some time and I do enjoy the game, I get the same feeling for this game as I did with EVE back in 2003 both share similarites in the beginning althou there is much more to do in repop than it ever were in the beginning of EVE.

    So if it all goes well for the devs we will see repop grow in the very same way EVE did during the years to come.

  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    Do they still have the shitty HERO Engine client that downloads gigabytes of crap only to the C: drive?
    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • psiicpsiic Member RarePosts: 1,612
    Originally posted by MrSnuffles
    Do they still have the shitty HERO Engine client that downloads gigabytes of crap only to the C: drive?

    Exactly bad engine choice

  • wyldmagikwyldmagik Member UncommonPosts: 484
    Originally posted by psiic
    Originally posted by MrSnuffles
    Do they still have the shitty HERO Engine client that downloads gigabytes of crap only to the C: drive?

    Exactly bad engine choice

    Then why dont you just move it with a symbolic link thats what I did. Its because they are still using cache extraction on data.

    1. Create a folder on a different drive that you want to contain game files for example D:MY_REPOP_FILES
    2. Move entire HeroEngine folder (i.e. C:Users%username%AppDataLocalHeroEngine) to D:MY_REPOP_FILES

    leave the original folder on C until you have moved/copied the folder to new place and made the link using method below.


    3. Open cmd prompt with administrator rights (right click run as administrator)
    4. Type this and press ENTER: MKLINK /D "C:Users%username%AppDataLocalHeroEngine" "D:MY_REPOP_FILES"
    5. you will get a success msg like symbolic link created for C:UsersYOUR_USERAppDataLocalHeroEngine <<===>> D:MY_REPOP_FILES

    That's it you should have all your cache in your D drive, and retain the folder / file structure on C drive (but without consuming disk space)

  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    Originally posted by wyldmagik
    Originally posted by psiic
    Originally posted by MrSnuffles
    Do they still have the shitty HERO Engine client that downloads gigabytes of crap only to the C: drive?

    Exactly bad engine choice

    Then why dont you just move it with a symbolic link thats what I did. Its because they are still using cache extraction on data.

    1. Create a folder on a different drive that you want to contain game files for example D:MY_REPOP_FILES
    2. Move entire HeroEngine folder (i.e. C:Users%username%AppDataLocalHeroEngine) to D:MY_REPOP_FILES

    leave the original folder on C until you have moved/copied the folder to new place and made the link using method below.


    3. Open cmd prompt with administrator rights (right click run as administrator)
    4. Type this and press ENTER: MKLINK /D "C:Users%username%AppDataLocalHeroEngine" "D:MY_REPOP_FILES"
    5. you will get a success msg like symbolic link created for C:UsersYOUR_USERAppDataLocalHeroEngine <<===>> D:MY_REPOP_FILES

    That's it you should have all your cache in your D drive, and retain the folder / file structure on C drive (but without consuming disk space)

    Sorry but, I should not have to jump through hoops or god forbid use the admin console to make file system changes to be able to install the game wherever i want. It should be in the steam directories like all other steam games. If they can't get these basics right i have no faith in them ever making a working MMORPG. The last time i played it it was horrible from the combat to the interface just one giant amateur mess, just like the installation.

     

    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

    ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
  • KilrainKilrain Member RarePosts: 1,177
    Has anyone played both The Repopulation and Goria Victus that can give me a comparison of completeness?
  • Atis-nobAtis-nob Member UncommonPosts: 98
    Originally posted by Dullahan
    Originally posted by LacedOpium

     

    Anyone suggesting for an MMORPG to be released in an unfinished buggy state knows nothing about MMORPGs or their history.

    This.  I can't believe people are advocating the release of a game before its ready in light of how just about every game with no exceptions has failed miserably after doing so. I'm not talking about a lite launch either, I mean launching a game like Repop now, unoptimized, and unfinished in about every way; not just finishing the main game and adding other systems later.

    Its suicide in this industry. Get an MMO education.

    I advocated for early release but never for buggy or unoptimised one. My idea is to cut on content, not on code quality. Ofc some bug will slip through but thats ok, no, and I mean NO AT ALL great mmo were released without handful of bugs. Most big names in industry were complete mess at release day, even Blizzard games had serious issues.

    Waiting till everybody and his mom release similar game is suicide. Get a basic education, starting from reading class. it will help to discern early release from broken one.

  • justmemyselfandijustmemyselfandi Member UncommonPosts: 559
    Originally posted by MrSnuffles
    Originally posted by wyldmagik
    Originally posted by psiic
    Originally posted by MrSnuffles
    Do they still have the shitty HERO Engine client that downloads gigabytes of crap only to the C: drive?

    Exactly bad engine choice

    Then why dont you just move it with a symbolic link thats what I did. Its because they are still using cache extraction on data.

    1. Create a folder on a different drive that you want to contain game files for example D:MY_REPOP_FILES
    2. Move entire HeroEngine folder (i.e. C:Users%username%AppDataLocalHeroEngine) to D:MY_REPOP_FILES

    leave the original folder on C until you have moved/copied the folder to new place and made the link using method below.


    3. Open cmd prompt with administrator rights (right click run as administrator)
    4. Type this and press ENTER: MKLINK /D "C:Users%username%AppDataLocalHeroEngine" "D:MY_REPOP_FILES"
    5. you will get a success msg like symbolic link created for C:UsersYOUR_USERAppDataLocalHeroEngine <<===>> D:MY_REPOP_FILES

    That's it you should have all your cache in your D drive, and retain the folder / file structure on C drive (but without consuming disk space)

    Sorry but, I should not have to jump through hoops or god forbid use the admin console to make file system changes to be able to install the game wherever i want. It should be in the steam directories like all other steam games. If they can't get these basics right i have no faith in them ever making a working MMORPG. The last time i played it it was horrible from the combat to the interface just one giant amateur mess, just like the installation.

     

    If you want it in the Steam directory, then you get the game through Steam. Everyone who bought the game prior to Steam release got a free Steam key. The only client that installs to the c: drive by default is the standalone client, which was abandoned ahile ago in lieu of the Steam client.

    I installed from Steam. Guess where the game is installed? In my Steam folder, on my E: drive. Really simple.

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  • AkulasAkulas Member RarePosts: 2,492
    If I can be a detective (track pvpers and mark them as ffa full loot) then I'll play. Because I liked doing that in another game I play even though it's a useless skill it's a clever way to get back at a person.

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  • makasouleater69makasouleater69 Member UncommonPosts: 1,096
    I am personally done with this garbage kick starter thing. All the games I tried are garbage from kick starter.infamous hero a copy of heroes quest sucked bad compared to sierras original. Shourd s of avatar is about as bad as you can get, with outrageous house prices, lag and no sight when it is ever gonna be finished. Elite and dangerous was alittle better than both of the others I mentioned, but still terrible compared to games already out. Divinity original sin was my last. Compared to baulders gate,nwn, nwn 2, elder scrolls it was garbage. It seems to me these games are just a endless pit with out coming out with anything good. But hey you want to pay 10k for a house in a video game what ever.
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