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Making Amends?

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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,464

    Originally posted by Dakeru

    Originally posted by st4t1ck
    So whats your remedy. Are you fine if they just dont give the base game out free and charge new people the same 50$ for the expansion and 10$ for the base game?

    I strongly believe that Anet will not lower the price but add a free character slot for the revenant.

    This doesn't make it that much better of a deal but it will be a sign of good will and I believe that I and many others will accept it.

    Well, what will they do for the $75 tier then? Add an additional slot to that? It already comes with a slot. If they just added a slot to the first tier then people would be less likely to buy the $75 tier since that $50 tier includes the most valuable perk. That would be bad marketing and business. So to add bonus value to the $50 tier they would need to add that to the $75 and $100 tiers.

    Originally posted by eyelolled

    Originally posted by Dakeru

    Yes I am throwing in the generalization card because that's what people seem to do on the Heart of Robbery thread nonstop.

    Entitlement Entitlement Entitlement

     

    If a new player pays 50$ and gets GW2 and HoT as bundle then I am entitled to the same. Same price - same product.

    It's as easy as that.

     Hi. I am the guy throwing "entitlement" around and I just thought I would show you what you missed.

    Thanks for listening and helping me prove my point

    lolol, thank you. I was the guy that didn't use the word entitlement and tried really hard to avoid going down that road, but got accused and lumped in. It's nice to see it in their own words.
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,464
    Originally posted by Dakeru
    Originally posted by eyelolled
    Originally posted by Dakeru

    Yes I am throwing in the generalization card because that's what people seem to do on the Heart of Robbery thread nonstop.

    Entitlement Entitlement Entitlement

    If a new player pays 50$ and gets GW2 and HoT as bundle then I am entitled to the same. Same price - same product.

    It's as easy as that.

     Hi. I am the guy throwing "entitlement" around and I just thought I would show you what you missed.

    Thanks for listening and helping me prove my point

    You are right.

    I am entitled to get the same deal as everyone else.

    Actually it is really funny that you point out that I want the same as everyone else.

    I don't want anything better or feel like I should get free stuff or anything like that.

    I just want the same.. 

    What is so hard about this? The xpac doesn't include an additional base game key. It includes the base game for those who don't already own it. It's a nice way of inviting new players in without gouging them for base game.

    The xpac doesn't have a separate base game key. It's in the very thread you linked. It has a game key that will behave in one of two ways. 1) It will upgrade an existing account to the xpac. 2) It will allow a new account to be created that also includes the base game.

    What the xpac currently is not. An xpac game key and a base game key. That is what you feel you're entitled to have offered; what you feel you deserve and are owed for them to offer you for the price of the xpac.

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • eye_meye_m Member UncommonPosts: 3,317
    Originally posted by Dakeru
    Originally posted by eyelolled
    Originally posted by Dakeru

    Yes I am throwing in the generalization card because that's what people seem to do on the Heart of Robbery thread nonstop.

    Entitlement Entitlement Entitlement

     

    If a new player pays 50$ and gets GW2 and HoT as bundle then I am entitled to the same. Same price - same product.

    It's as easy as that.

     Hi. I am the guy throwing "entitlement" around and I just thought I would show you what you missed.

     

    Thanks for listening and helping me prove my point

    You are right.

    I am entitled to get the same deal as everyone else.

     

    Actually it is really funny that you point out that I want the same as everyone else.

    I don't want anything better or feel like I should get free stuff or anything like that.

     

    I just want the same.. 

     You DO get the same deal, unless you don't buy the expansion. Then you rake in a steal of a deal with absolutely no cost up front, you can continue to play the old version without any of the new stuff! For absolutely no cost whatsoever, you get to continue to do the exact same things again! What a bargain, and that bargain is for YOU!

    However, if you do choose to pay, then you don't get to take advantage of that special offer.

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

    I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.

  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,797
    Originally posted by eyelolled

    However, if you do choose to pay, then you don't get to take advantage of that special offer.

    And how is that the same then?

    Harbinger of Fools
  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Member RarePosts: 1,683
    Originally posted by Dakeru
    Originally posted by eyelolled

    However, if you do choose to pay, then you don't get to take advantage of that special offer.

    And how is that the same then?

    Oh come on Dakeru!! Is it really that hard for you?

    MMORPGs aren't easy, You're just too PRO!
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,797
    Originally posted by StoneRoses
    Originally posted by Dakeru
    Originally posted by eyelolled

    However, if you do choose to pay, then you don't get to take advantage of that special offer.

    And how is that the same then?

    Oh come on Dakeru!! Is it really that hard for you?

    Apparently it is, enlighten me how I get the same value for my 50$ as everyone else.

    Harbinger of Fools
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,464
    Originally posted by Dakeru
    Originally posted by eyelolled

    However, if you do choose to pay, then you don't get to take advantage of that special offer.

    And how is that the same then?

    The list of features is the same for everyone. It's not complicated. There are features in the package you can't use or take advantage of and you feel entitled to compensation of an equally valuable feature. The list of features is still the same for everyone whether because after you apply the key the accounts access the same stuff.

    It's very much like a Steam bundle where you already own one or more of the games in the bundle. You don't get a second copy/key of the game to give away. It does nothing for your account. What you want is something like one of those third party game bundles that give you separate keys for each game to do with as you please.

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • cerulean2012cerulean2012 Member UncommonPosts: 492
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by n3v3rriv3r

    if only people value more their money and eat less cr%p from developers. We would have better quality products, less dlcs and more content in games as they are.

    You dont get it do you? You get less for the same money. Should I make it a picture or it is simple math enough:

    new players: original game + expansion = 50

    old players: expansion = 50

    What is so hard to understand?

     

    It is easy then.

    Old players should abandon their old account, that already paid for itself and get a brand new account with the original game + expansion for $50.

    There same value.

    Why do old players insist in upgrading their old account instead of getting more value?

     

    So old players should just give up on the hundreds of hours of play they already have.  They should not worry about the effort they put into getting all of the level 80s and getting them equipped up.  They should not worry about the time, effort, money it cost to get a legendary weapon for their character/s.

    Makes perfect sense, throw away what you have done and already seen in the game.  Start new as if you never played before because bozos can't figure it out. 

    Sorry, I am not going to re-buy then game just to get the expansion.  If the put just the expansion on sale for say 29.99, maybe just maybe 39.99 I will get it otherwise...they will not get my money any more.  Not for the expansion, not for gems not for anything!

  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,797
    Originally posted by Torval
    Originally posted by Dakeru
    Originally posted by eyelolled

    However, if you do choose to pay, then you don't get to take advantage of that special offer.

    And how is that the same then?

    The list of features is the same for everyone. It's not complicated. There are features in the package you can't use or take advantage of and you feel entitled to compensation of an equally valuable feature. The list of features is still the same for everyone whether because after you apply the key the accounts access the same stuff.

    It's very much like a Steam bundle where you already own one or more of the games in the bundle. You don't get a second copy/key of the game to give away. It does nothing for your account. What you want is something like one of those third party game bundles that give you separate keys for each game to do with as you please.

    Funny..

    Last time I bought a bundle on steam I got a key for Torchlight 1 and 2.

    They even advertised at the time that if I already possess T1 I could gift the key to someone else.

    Harbinger of Fools
  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    Originally posted by Dakeru
    Originally posted by Gestankfaust
    ^Why...this thread?

    Because the shitstorm is so big that Anet may reconsider?

    So basically the "hold your breath and stomp your feet" approach.

    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

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    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Member RarePosts: 1,683
    Originally posted by Dakeru
    Originally posted by Torval
    Originally posted by Dakeru
    Originally posted by eyelolled

    However, if you do choose to pay, then you don't get to take advantage of that special offer.

    And how is that the same then?

    The list of features is the same for everyone. It's not complicated. There are features in the package you can't use or take advantage of and you feel entitled to compensation of an equally valuable feature. The list of features is still the same for everyone whether because after you apply the key the accounts access the same stuff.

    It's very much like a Steam bundle where you already own one or more of the games in the bundle. You don't get a second copy/key of the game to give away. It does nothing for your account. What you want is something like one of those third party game bundles that give you separate keys for each game to do with as you please.

    Funny..

    Last time I bought a bundle on steam I got a key for Torchlight 1 and 2.

    They even advertised at the time that if I already possess T1 I could gift the key to someone else.

    T2 is on sale right now on Steam $7.99,.. are you going to demand that they refund you the difference?

    You're Entitled to that right?

     

     

    MMORPGs aren't easy, You're just too PRO!
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,797
    Originally posted by StoneRoses
    Originally posted by Dakeru
    Originally posted by Torval
    Originally posted by Dakeru
    Originally posted by eyelolled

    However, if you do choose to pay, then you don't get to take advantage of that special offer.

    And how is that the same then?

    The list of features is the same for everyone. It's not complicated. There are features in the package you can't use or take advantage of and you feel entitled to compensation of an equally valuable feature. The list of features is still the same for everyone whether because after you apply the key the accounts access the same stuff.

    It's very much like a Steam bundle where you already own one or more of the games in the bundle. You don't get a second copy/key of the game to give away. It does nothing for your account. What you want is something like one of those third party game bundles that give you separate keys for each game to do with as you please.

    Funny..

    Last time I bought a bundle on steam I got a key for Torchlight 1 and 2.

    They even advertised at the time that if I already possess T1 I could gift the key to someone else.

    T2 is on sale right now on Steam $7.99,.. are you going to demand that they refund you the difference?

    You're Entitled to that right?

     

     

    And now you are just plain trolling

    Harbinger of Fools
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,464
    Originally posted by Dakeru
    Originally posted by Torval
    Originally posted by Dakeru
    Originally posted by eyelolled

    However, if you do choose to pay, then you don't get to take advantage of that special offer.

    And how is that the same then?

    The list of features is the same for everyone. It's not complicated. There are features in the package you can't use or take advantage of and you feel entitled to compensation of an equally valuable feature. The list of features is still the same for everyone whether because after you apply the key the accounts access the same stuff.

    It's very much like a Steam bundle where you already own one or more of the games in the bundle. You don't get a second copy/key of the game to give away. It does nothing for your account. What you want is something like one of those third party game bundles that give you separate keys for each game to do with as you please.

    Funny..

    Last time I bought a bundle on steam I got a key for Torchlight 1 and 2.

    They even advertised at the time that if I already possess T1 I could gift the key to someone else.

    That is not how Steam bundles typically work. There are a ton of bundles right now on Steam. Go ahead test that theory.

    If Runic did run a special promotion like that, you'll note that they advertised it as such. Anet is not advertising their xpac that way. They are explicitly and clearly stating the opposite - that the key upgrades an existing account or creates a new account that includes the base game. You just don't like how that package works. That's the difference.

    Right now there is a Steam bundle for King's  Bounty. If you own one of the games and buy the bundle you won't get an extra key. The same goes for the Might and Magic bundles.

    Keep petitioning them though. If you get them to give a better deal out of a package then that just means I'll get a better package deal. Even though I don't think it's a reasonable demand or agree that you're entitled to it, I'm always for more stuff for the deal.

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685
    Originally posted by Fauzt
    Well all I can say is people with the thinking of the fact that prices should be different, obviously haven't played EQ2, seeing as how with each of their expansions you get all previous ones.  You either want the expansion or don't.  If you do, you're willing to pay for it.  Deal with it

    What do you mean by "deal with it"?  Do you want others not to express their opinions on the matter?  Last i checked, we were allowed to on this website, yet others feel the need to be insulting because of this.  Thankfully, there's a block feature that this site offers, so i'll deal with them in that way.

  • GestankfaustGestankfaust Member UncommonPosts: 1,989
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by Dakeru
    Originally posted by Gestankfaust
    ^Why...this thread?

    Because the shitstorm is so big that Anet may reconsider?

    So basically the "hold your breath and stomp your feet" approach.

    Exactly...and whine/complain cause they can.

    "This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

  • GestankfaustGestankfaust Member UncommonPosts: 1,989
    Originally posted by observer
    Originally posted by Fauzt
    Well all I can say is people with the thinking of the fact that prices should be different, obviously haven't played EQ2, seeing as how with each of their expansions you get all previous ones.  You either want the expansion or don't.  If you do, you're willing to pay for it.  Deal with it

    What do you mean by "deal with it"?  Do you want others not to express their opinions on the matter?  Last i checked, we were allowed to on this website, yet others feel the need to be insulting because of this.  Thankfully, there's a block feature that this site offers, so i'll deal with them in that way.

    lol...so "deal with it" means block people telling you to "deal with it"?

     

    Well...it isn't unfair what's goin on. Just unfair to you...deal with it.

    "This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by Gestankfaust
    Originally posted by observer
    Originally posted by Fauzt
    Well all I can say is people with the thinking of the fact that prices should be different, obviously haven't played EQ2, seeing as how with each of their expansions you get all previous ones.  You either want the expansion or don't.  If you do, you're willing to pay for it.  Deal with it

    What do you mean by "deal with it"?  Do you want others not to express their opinions on the matter?  Last i checked, we were allowed to on this website, yet others feel the need to be insulting because of this.  Thankfully, there's a block feature that this site offers, so i'll deal with them in that way.

    lol...so "deal with it" means block people telling you to "deal with it"?

     

    Well...it isn't unfair what's goin on. Just unfair to you...deal with it.

    The only people who have to deal with anything, are those who have a problem with open discussion... You're gonna have to get used to reading stuff you don't agree with at some point, it's always going to be there. Getting angry about it will eventually become detrimental to your health. See that's the great thing about games, you don't have to deal with them.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • GinazGinaz Member RarePosts: 2,283

    I think an issue some people have is that Arena Net encouraged people to buy the game as it currently stands by basically saying "Buy now and get caught up for the expansion!" and then went and bundled the base game with the expansion.  It's kind of shady, IMO, to encourage new players to buy your game so they can get take advantage of the content  in an upcoming expansion knowing full well they were going to bundle the two together.  So someone who bought base GW2 last week or sometime after the expansion was announced because of a desire to get caught up that was encouraged by the company, just got hoodwinked.  Had Arena Net been honest from the beginning and said "Guys, we're going to be bundling the base game with the expansion for new players/accounts so you can either buy now and enjoy the game until the expansion but pay and additional $50 or wait and get both for $50" then there wouldn't be a problem. 

    I have no issue with the price or the lack of goodies for veteran players.  They've been enjoying the game for almost 3 years now with the only cost being the initial price.  Expansions and the cash shop is how b2p games stay afloat after release.  Lowering the cost of entry for new players is a good thing, IMO, because it benefits the population as a whole.  Bringing in new players is the lifeblood of MMO's.  Anything you can do to encourage them to play is good for everyone, inc. veteran players.  If veteran players don't think the expansion is worth $50 then they can  either wait until it goes on sale or don't buy it at all.

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  • GestankfaustGestankfaust Member UncommonPosts: 1,989
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Gestankfaust
    Originally posted by observer
    Originally posted by Fauzt
    Well all I can say is people with the thinking of the fact that prices should be different, obviously haven't played EQ2, seeing as how with each of their expansions you get all previous ones.  You either want the expansion or don't.  If you do, you're willing to pay for it.  Deal with it

    What do you mean by "deal with it"?  Do you want others not to express their opinions on the matter?  Last i checked, we were allowed to on this website, yet others feel the need to be insulting because of this.  Thankfully, there's a block feature that this site offers, so i'll deal with them in that way.

    lol...so "deal with it" means block people telling you to "deal with it"?

     

    Well...it isn't unfair what's goin on. Just unfair to you...deal with it.

    The only people who have to deal with anything, are those who have a problem with open discussion... You're gonna have to get used to reading stuff you don't agree with at some point, it's always going to be there. Getting angry about it will eventually become detrimental to your health. See that's the great thing about games, you don't have to deal with them.

    lol....yep

     

    this is open discussion. Same stupid arguments....same day. But you just keep on truckin...and I'll just keep laying common sense on your doorstep ;)

    "This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,464
    Originally posted by Ginaz

    I think an issue some people have is that Arena Net encouraged people to buy the game as it currently stands by basically saying "Buy now and get caught up for the expansion!" and then went and bundled the base game with the expansion.  It's kind of shady, IMO, to encourage new players to buy your game so they can get take advantage of the content  in an upcoming expansion knowing full well they were going to bundle the two together.  So someone who bought base GW2 last week or sometime after the expansion was announced because of a desire to get caught up that was encouraged by the company, just got hoodwinked.  Had Arena Net been honest from the beginning and said "Guys, we're going to be bundling the base game with the expansion for new players/accounts so you can either buy now and enjoy the game until the expansion but pay and additional $50 or wait and get both for $50" then there wouldn't be a problem. 

    I have no issue with the price or the lack of goodies for veteran players.  They've been enjoying the game for almost 3 years now with the only cost being the initial price.  Expansions and the cash shop is how b2p games stay afloat after release.  Lowering the cost of entry for new players is a good thing, IMO, because it benefits the population as a whole.  Bringing in new players is the lifeblood of MMO's.  Anything you can do to encourage them to play is good for everyone, inc. veteran players.  If veteran players don't think the expansion is worth $50 then they can  either wait until it goes on sale or don't buy it at all.

    That is a good point. Someone did bring this up in that other thread. Someone provided a forum link where Anet said that if you recently purchased the base game and want to refund and buy an xpac instead they would be happy to do so. The player must contact support to make the trade.

    It was a boneheaded move to do so in the first place, but at least they're doing the right thing.

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,065
    Originally posted by cerulean2012

    So old players should just give up on the hundreds of hours of play they already have.  They should not worry about the effort they put into getting all of the level 80s and getting them equipped up.  They should not worry about the time, effort, money it cost to get a legendary weapon for their character/s.

    Makes perfect sense, throw away what you have done and already seen in the game.  Start new as if you never played before because bozos can't figure it out. 

    Sorry, I am not going to re-buy then game just to get the expansion.  If the put just the expansion on sale for say 29.99, maybe just maybe 39.99 I will get it otherwise...they will not get my money any more.  Not for the expansion, not for gems not for anything!

    Apparently you value the red bit at about $10-20.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • GreteldaGretelda Member UncommonPosts: 359

    lol @ some comments. Dakeru is right to make this topic. GW2 previously listened as well and some other companies previously listened as well when the crowd was loud and internet helps yes.

     

    they either have to listen to the crowd, or deliver one hell of an expansion to get away with this. this is not ANET's doing btw. sure they like money as well, but it's mainly NCSOFT cause Wildstar failed.

     

    also those with the mindset of "can't leave my game after all the time i put on it" shouldn't play MMOs. it's called addiction and it's what WoW feeds on. you have to always let go of your game one day and your MMOs won't finish any time soon so don't bother to stay all the way to see the end of your journey (you can just come back when they give you the final content of their game) and don't be afraid to start over with another game.

    my top MMOs: UO,DAOC,WoW,GW2

    most of my posts are just my opinions they are not facts,it is the same for you too.

  • JohnP0100JohnP0100 Member UncommonPosts: 401
    http://www.killtenrats.com/2015/06/18/gw2-lash-and-love/

    It is sad to see a company just mismanage a product announcement like this. This is just face palm stuff.

    It shows what PvP games are really all about, and no, it's not about more realism and immersion. It's about cowards hiding behind a screen to they can bully other defenseless players without any risk of direct retaliation like there would be if they acted like asshats in "real life". -Jean-Luc_Picard

    Life itself is a game. So why shouldn't your game be ruined? - justmemyselfandi

  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Member RarePosts: 1,683

    Vanilla WoW $49.99

    3yr $14.99  $539.64

    1st Xpac TBC $49.99 + $29.99 Base Game

    Blizzard's marketing in 2007. Many of would rather go back here than be down there.

    ***********

    GW2 $69.99

    3yr $0.00

    1st Xpac Hot $49.99 + Free Base Game

    Anet's marketing 2015. Rather than being here you would rather be up there.

     

    HUGE FUCKING PROBLEM THERE!!

    MMORPGs aren't easy, You're just too PRO!
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by StoneRoses

    Vanilla WoW $49.99

    3yr $14.99  $539.64

    1st Xpac TBC $49.99 + $29.99 Base Game

    Blizzard's marketing in 2007. Many of would rather go back here than be down there.

    ***********

    GW2 $69.99

    3yr $0.00

    1st Xpac Hot $49.99 + Free Base Game

    Anet's marketing 2015. Rather than being here you would rather be up there.

     

    HUGE FUCKING PROBLEM THERE!!

    I think you're too hung up on the B2P model, it just seems like an agenda at this point. You realize Blizz gets some of the loudest complaints about their offerings right? Especially in regard to their frequency in updates and content additions. Because people expect it to be worth it. B2P isn't an explain all answer to value.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


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