Originally posted by Giffen ESO is a quest hub, game on rails just like WoW, but that is pretty much where the similarities end.
There are no quest hubs in ESO. Not a game on rails either. These are thing that trolls who have never played the game keep saying.
I believe he can't properly differentiate linear questing from quest hubs. While there are no quest hubs the main zone quests for each zone are very linear and lead you around the zone very much like in WoW. This is what I think people are seeing when they call ESO a WoW clone.
That said there are lot of differences between ESO and WoW and some of the things people have said like casual play making it a WoW clone are just ridiculous.
I agree there. All around in fact....
Not worth arguing about anyway. I know what I grew up playing and what comparisons are true and what are trolls. Just can't figure out why anyone should care either way. Play the damn game or don't. Stop making posts or threads about things others like but you (no not you reeereee) do not like.
It's simple...you are NOT going to change anyone's mind on MMORPG, or ANY site, if they hate or like a game. Your facts (again...not reeereee :P) aren't fact...they are opinions. We, as players of said game(s), know what the game(s) play like. We aren't swayed by trolls.
Next Ima hafta defend my love of bacon double cheeseburgers on FB cause some nut doesn't like them.
Originally posted by Dullahan All forms of convenience popularized by WoW exist in ESO. The fact that it has more PvP focus doesn't change anything.
That's a complete stretch..and goes for all MMOS then. Then you also have to include WoW as a clone of everything earlier for the same reasons. WoW didn't "popularize" any of it. It was already popular. WoW lumped it all together.
Jeebus.....
WoW definitely, without controversy (read about it) popularized the casual model of MMORPGs. When one refers to WoW clone, its a reference to that casual design philosophy that rewards players more for less time invested. Fast leveling, soloing, quest progression, fast travel, cross server, megaserver, instancing, non-contested content, menu queuing and lobby gameplay etc etc etc. Those are things that make a "wow clone." Adding more emphasis on PvP doesn't disqualify a game from WoW-clone status. Neither does trying to redefine what it means.
Originally posted by Giffen ESO is a quest hub, game on rails just like WoW, but that is pretty much where the similarities end.
There are no quest hubs in ESO. Not a game on rails either. These are thing that trolls who have never played the game keep saying.
I believe he can't properly differentiate linear questing from quest hubs. While there are no quest hubs the main zone quests for each zone are very linear and lead you around the zone very much like in WoW. This is what I think people are seeing when they call ESO a WoW clone.
That said there are lot of differences between ESO and WoW and some of the things people have said like casual play making it a WoW clone are just ridiculous.
Says you.
You have a perfect reference right here in this forum. Go back 5 years or even more, and find out what a WoW clone is. Trying to argue that a game based on the same casual philosophy as WoW isn't a WoW clone because of feature X is nothing but your trying to change the definition.
I hate to say someone is wrong, but Dull you are wrong!
If ESO is a WoW clone then WoW is a clone of the games before it and every MMORPG is a clone of them.
Originally posted by Giffen ESO is a quest hub, game on rails just like WoW, but that is pretty much where the similarities end.
There are no quest hubs in ESO. Not a game on rails either. These are thing that trolls who have never played the game keep saying.
I believe he can't properly differentiate linear questing from quest hubs. While there are no quest hubs the main zone quests for each zone are very linear and lead you around the zone very much like in WoW. This is what I think people are seeing when they call ESO a WoW clone.
That said there are lot of differences between ESO and WoW and some of the things people have said like casual play making it a WoW clone are just ridiculous.
Says you.
You have a perfect reference right here in this forum. Go back 5 years or even more, and find out what a WoW clone is. Trying to argue that a game based on the same casual philosophy as WoW isn't a WoW clone because of feature X is nothing but your trying to change the definition.
Im saying I DON'T CARE! Do you not get it? All modern games are clones of something. Get over yourself....
Originally posted by Giffen ESO is a quest hub, game on rails just like WoW, but that is pretty much where the similarities end.
There are no quest hubs in ESO. Not a game on rails either. These are thing that trolls who have never played the game keep saying.
I believe he can't properly differentiate linear questing from quest hubs. While there are no quest hubs the main zone quests for each zone are very linear and lead you around the zone very much like in WoW. This is what I think people are seeing when they call ESO a WoW clone.
That said there are lot of differences between ESO and WoW and some of the things people have said like casual play making it a WoW clone are just ridiculous.
Says you.
You have a perfect reference right here in this forum. Go back 5 years or even more, and find out what a WoW clone is. Trying to argue that a game based on the same casual philosophy as WoW isn't a WoW clone because of feature X is nothing but your trying to change the definition.
People were using that term in regard to SWG NGE. It didn't just begin five years ago, it started off as a derogatory way to describe games that were gear/quest based.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Dullahan All forms of convenience popularized by WoW exist in ESO. The fact that it has more PvP focus doesn't change anything.
That's a complete stretch..and goes for all MMOS then. Then you also have to include WoW as a clone of everything earlier for the same reasons. WoW didn't "popularize" any of it. It was already popular. WoW lumped it all together.
Jeebus.....
WoW definitely, without controversy (read about it) popularized the casual model of MMORPGs. When one refers to WoW clone, its a reference to that casual design philosophy that rewards players more for less time invested. Fast leveling, soloing, quest progression, fast travel, cross server, megaserver, instancing, non-contested content, menu queuing and lobby gameplay etc etc etc. Those are things that make a "wow clone." Adding more emphasis on PvP doesn't disqualify a game from WoW-clone status. Neither does trying to redefine what it means.
Have you played ESO?
Yep.
Then you know it has a different focus than WOW, it's not about a single feature it's about the focus of the design. WOW's main focus is running dungeons/Raids and gaining more and more outlandish looking shoulderpads. ESO is more about lore and story, With a secondary PVP focus.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It's not. It's just something people say when they have little other frame of reference or can't form a unique comment. Someone says it about everything.
SWtOR, ok. Champions Online, ok. Wildstar, ok. Sure, it's pretty hard to argue against that. But like...
EQ2? Cringe. EQ2 released months earlier.
Warhammer? Cringe. What did they have in common? Themepark mmos with classes, levels, etc... If that is the criteria, then...
WoW was an EQ clone.
Oh, now panties will be in bunches.
Of course it wasn't, and neither is ESO a WoW clone.
On a side note, Rift was a bastard love-child of EQ2 and Warhammer. See, that's a better argument. It shows I've played more than 2 mmos in my life.
Wannabe-guy-who-pretends-he-knows-mmos-01 says, " (Insert game here) is a generic WoW clone! "
I dont feel like this game is a WOW clone at all, but the main argument against this game is always "it feels like a generic WOW clone." I dont understand whats generic about ESO at all really (im not saying its extremely innovative or anything but a WOW clone?)
So what are some ways ESO feels like a generic WoW ripoff, i want to hear opinions.
'WoW Clone' is one of those overused terms that have become synonymous with 'the game doesn't feel different enough'. It's gotten bad enough to the point where very few seem to even understand that label anymore, right up there with other labels like 'pay 2 win', 'sandbox', 'open world'. etc.
Personally I wouldn't call it a WoW clone, but there are a few features that are similar. Primarily dungeons, vertical progression, and loot grind. Now, those are hardly WoW-specific, but we're talking about a misused term here, so most people aren't using much logic when using this term.
Originally posted by Giffen ESO is a quest hub, game on rails just like WoW, but that is pretty much where the similarities end.
There are no quest hubs in ESO. Not a game on rails either. These are thing that trolls who have never played the game keep saying.
I believe he can't properly differentiate linear questing from quest hubs. While there are no quest hubs the main zone quests for each zone are very linear and lead you around the zone very much like in WoW. This is what I think people are seeing when they call ESO a WoW clone.
That said there are lot of differences between ESO and WoW and some of the things people have said like casual play making it a WoW clone are just ridiculous.
Says you.
You have a perfect reference right here in this forum. Go back 5 years or even more, and find out what a WoW clone is. Trying to argue that a game based on the same casual philosophy as WoW isn't a WoW clone because of feature X is nothing but your trying to change the definition.
Perhaps to a handful of bitter EQ1 vets that is what "WoW clone" means, but I assure you that is not what the vast majority believe, or ever believed the term to mean.
Originally posted by Dullahan All forms of convenience popularized by WoW exist in ESO. The fact that it has more PvP focus doesn't change anything.
That's a complete stretch..and goes for all MMOS then. Then you also have to include WoW as a clone of everything earlier for the same reasons. WoW didn't "popularize" any of it. It was already popular. WoW lumped it all together.
Jeebus.....
WoW definitely, without controversy (read about it) popularized the casual model of MMORPGs. When one refers to WoW clone, its a reference to that casual design philosophy that rewards players more for less time invested. Fast leveling, soloing, quest progression, fast travel, cross server, megaserver, instancing, non-contested content, menu queuing and lobby gameplay etc etc etc. Those are things that make a "wow clone." Adding more emphasis on PvP doesn't disqualify a game from WoW-clone status. Neither does trying to redefine what it means.
Have you played ESO?
Yep.
Then you know it has a different focus than WOW, it's not about a single feature it's about the focus of the design. WOW's main focus is running dungeons/Raids and gaining more and more outlandish looking shoulderpads. ESO is more about lore and story, With a secondary PVP focus.
I just said twice, its not about a single feature. Its about the casual philosophy that puts a little distance between the guy that plays a couple hours a week, and the hardcore. That is what a WoW clone is.
Look, its obvious the whole WoW clone thing is upsetting people. I don't care what games you play. I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't play ESO. I really don't care. Go nuts, have fun.
Then you know it has a different focus than WOW, it's not about a single feature it's about the focus of the design. WOW's main focus is running dungeons/Raids and gaining more and more outlandish looking shoulderpads. ESO is more about lore and story, With a secondary PVP focus.
I just said twice, its not about a single feature. Its about the casual philosophy that puts a little distance between the guy that plays a couple hours a week, and the hardcore. That is what a WoW clone is.
Look, its obvious the whole WoW clone thing is upsetting people. I don't care what games you play. I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't play ESO. I really don't care. Go nuts, have fun.
Except, that's not at all what a WoW (or any) clone is. It has nothing to do w/ casual vs. hardcore. It has nothing to do w/ the mindset of those who play the game. It has everything to do with the majority of features from one game being ported / copied / transferred to a completely different game.
Does ESO and WoW share some features, yes they do. However so do all racing games, all FPS games, all fighting games. There are certain features that are staples of games made within a specific genre. For themepark fantasy MMOs, dungeons & quest hubs are some of these features.
Does WoW also have these features? Absolutely, but so do ALL MMOs within this same category. Even many of the ones that predate WoW.
- That doesn't stop people from using the term 'WoW Clone' as essentially stigmatic duct-tape, an all-use slander tool for w/e game isn't liked. But that doesn't make it correct, as has been explained & demonstrated in this very thread.
Let me just finish by saying I'm not a huge fan of ESO. Never have been, though I was interested in the RvR briefly. However, even though I dislike this game, I won't (and can't) get behind those who label it a WoW clone. It's not. It's not skyrim either, it's just a messy game with a lot of cool sounding features that were flawed on implementation.
I just said twice, its not about a single feature. Its about the casual philosophy that puts a little distance between the guy that plays a couple hours a week, and the hardcore. That is what a WoW clone is.
Look, its obvious the whole WoW clone thing is upsetting people. I don't care what games you play. I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't play ESO. I really don't care. Go nuts, have fun.
I think it's the idea of misrepresentation that is upsetting people, if anything is. That's the main driving force of these thread topics is: discussion, dispute, agreement, etc. and if one person thinks something is A and not B then it's disputed. That doesn't change the thing just because one person says it does.
I get that you think a "WoW clone" is any title that would be considered "casual" or not "hard core" but that is giving WoW a bit too much credit. Does ESO and WoW play the same way? Nope, not IMO so to me it isn't a WoW clone. To me it's not so much the ease of playing but the meta of progression, advancement, and avatar identity. These are day and night between ESO and WoW but I respect that you may disagree.
I just said twice, its not about a single feature. Its about the casual philosophy that puts a little distance between the guy that plays a couple hours a week, and the hardcore. That is what a WoW clone is.
Look, its obvious the whole WoW clone thing is upsetting people. I don't care what games you play. I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't play ESO. I really don't care. Go nuts, have fun.
I think it's the idea of misrepresentation that is upsetting people, if anything is. That's the main driving force of these thread topics is: discussion, dispute, agreement, etc. and if one person thinks something is A and not B then it's disputed. That doesn't change the thing just because one person says it does.
I get that you think a "WoW clone" is any title that would be considered "casual" or not "hard core" but that is giving WoW a bit too much credit. Does ESO and WoW play the same way? Nope, not IMO so to me it isn't a WoW clone. To me it's not so much the ease of playing but the meta of progression, advancement, and avatar identity. These are day and night between ESO and WoW but I respect that you may disagree.
Ya, just to make sure I wasn't crazy, I went back and read these very forums. Six years ago and since its meant the same thing, casual games revolving around convenience. All the games of the past dubbed WoW clones had distinctions of their own, but all shared the same linear design. Almost all have the golden path, linear quest progression, solo play, fast leveling and instancing. If you want to tie it to particular features, those would be the ones. Look for yourself, or continue on in ignorance. It matters not to me.
Does eso have fast levelling - no Does eso have quest hubs - no Does eso have gear/power as the core objective - no Does eso make crafting meaningless - no Does eso have lobbies - no Does eso have garrisons/minions - no
Does wow have AA - no Does wow have voice acted questing - no Does wow have wvw - no Does wow have global ah - yes Does wow have nameplates - yes Does wow have shared dps meters - yes Does wow have gated content - yes Does wow have a power ceiling - no. Does wow gameplay consist of perfecting rotations - yes.
Totally different style of game
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
I just said twice, its not about a single feature. Its about the casual philosophy that puts a little distance between the guy that plays a couple hours a week, and the hardcore. That is what a WoW clone is.
Look, its obvious the whole WoW clone thing is upsetting people. I don't care what games you play. I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't play ESO. I really don't care. Go nuts, have fun.
I think it's the idea of misrepresentation that is upsetting people, if anything is. That's the main driving force of these thread topics is: discussion, dispute, agreement, etc. and if one person thinks something is A and not B then it's disputed. That doesn't change the thing just because one person says it does.
I get that you think a "WoW clone" is any title that would be considered "casual" or not "hard core" but that is giving WoW a bit too much credit. Does ESO and WoW play the same way? Nope, not IMO so to me it isn't a WoW clone. To me it's not so much the ease of playing but the meta of progression, advancement, and avatar identity. These are day and night between ESO and WoW but I respect that you may disagree.
Ya, just to make sure I wasn't crazy, I went back and read these very forums. Six years ago and since its meant the same thing, casual games revolving around convenience. All the games of the past dubbed WoW clones had distinctions of their own, but all shared the same linear design. Almost all have the golden path, linear quest progression, solo play, fast leveling and instancing. If you want to tie it to particular features, those would be the ones. Look for yourself, or continue on in ignorance. It matters not to me.
Carry on though, facts change every day.
You neglected the gear treadmill and combat, but other than that very similar to what I would have said... I argued with you because you said there wasn't a features list and now you give me a features list that is fairly similar to what I would have said.
The problem is "casual games revolving around convenience" is so broad it includes just about every game released in the last 11 years. If every game since WoW is a WoW clone it starts to lose it's meaning no? The the term WoW clone simply comes to denote all games made after WoW was launched.
Though I suppose there are a few fringe games designed to appeal to the full loot PvP crowd like Darkfall and Mortal Online that wouldn't fall into that category.
I just said twice, its not about a single feature. Its about the casual philosophy that puts a little distance between the guy that plays a couple hours a week, and the hardcore. That is what a WoW clone is.
Look, its obvious the whole WoW clone thing is upsetting people. I don't care what games you play. I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't play ESO. I really don't care. Go nuts, have fun.
I think it's the idea of misrepresentation that is upsetting people, if anything is. That's the main driving force of these thread topics is: discussion, dispute, agreement, etc. and if one person thinks something is A and not B then it's disputed. That doesn't change the thing just because one person says it does.
I get that you think a "WoW clone" is any title that would be considered "casual" or not "hard core" but that is giving WoW a bit too much credit. Does ESO and WoW play the same way? Nope, not IMO so to me it isn't a WoW clone. To me it's not so much the ease of playing but the meta of progression, advancement, and avatar identity. These are day and night between ESO and WoW but I respect that you may disagree.
Ya, just to make sure I wasn't crazy, I went back and read these very forums. Six years ago and since its meant the same thing, casual games revolving around convenience. All the games of the past dubbed WoW clones had distinctions of their own, but all shared the same linear design. Almost all have the golden path, linear quest progression, solo play, fast leveling and instancing. If you want to tie it to particular features, those would be the ones. Look for yourself, or continue on in ignorance. It matters not to me.
Carry on though, facts change every day.
You neglected the gear treadmill and combat, but other than that very similar to what I would have said... I argued with you because you said there wasn't a features list and now you give me a features list that is fairly similar to what I would have said.
The problem is "casual games revolving around convenience" is so broad it includes just about every game released in the last 11 years. If every game since WoW is a WoW clone it starts to lose it's meaning no? The the term WoW clone simply comes to denote all games made after WoW was launched.
Though I suppose there are a few fringe games designed to appeal to the full loot PvP crowd like Darkfall and Mortal Online that wouldn't fall into that category.
Correction, I said designed around convenience, which implies systems which promote those things. They aren't really features. Don't think I've ever caught a commercial advertising the things that make a fantasy game less realistic and easier. Clone status isn't negated simply because a game has chocobos, magical rifts, light sabers, or a big ass open world battleground.
I just said twice, its not about a single feature. Its about the casual philosophy that puts a little distance between the guy that plays a couple hours a week, and the hardcore. That is what a WoW clone is.
Look, its obvious the whole WoW clone thing is upsetting people. I don't care what games you play. I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't play ESO. I really don't care. Go nuts, have fun.
I think it's the idea of misrepresentation that is upsetting people, if anything is. That's the main driving force of these thread topics is: discussion, dispute, agreement, etc. and if one person thinks something is A and not B then it's disputed. That doesn't change the thing just because one person says it does.
I get that you think a "WoW clone" is any title that would be considered "casual" or not "hard core" but that is giving WoW a bit too much credit. Does ESO and WoW play the same way? Nope, not IMO so to me it isn't a WoW clone. To me it's not so much the ease of playing but the meta of progression, advancement, and avatar identity. These are day and night between ESO and WoW but I respect that you may disagree.
Ya, just to make sure I wasn't crazy, I went back and read these very forums. Six years ago and since its meant the same thing, casual games revolving around convenience. All the games of the past dubbed WoW clones had distinctions of their own, but all shared the same linear design. Almost all have the golden path, linear quest progression, solo play, fast leveling and instancing. If you want to tie it to particular features, those would be the ones. Look for yourself, or continue on in ignorance. It matters not to me.
Carry on though, facts change every day.
You neglected the gear treadmill and combat, but other than that very similar to what I would have said... I argued with you because you said there wasn't a features list and now you give me a features list that is fairly similar to what I would have said.
The problem is "casual games revolving around convenience" is so broad it includes just about every game released in the last 11 years. If every game since WoW is a WoW clone it starts to lose it's meaning no? The the term WoW clone simply comes to denote all games made after WoW was launched.
Though I suppose there are a few fringe games designed to appeal to the full loot PvP crowd like Darkfall and Mortal Online that wouldn't fall into that category.
Correction, I said designed around convenience, which implies systems which promote those things. They aren't really features. Don't think I've ever caught a commercial advertising the things that make a fantasy game less realistic and easier. Clone status isn't negated simply because a game has chocobos, magical rifts, light sabers, or a big ass open world battleground.
Different definition of features I guess. Having big ears is a feature of someones face. That person wanting to advertise it or not does not determine whether or not it is a feature.
I'll give you an example of where it gets interesting. gw2.
gw2 is highly nonlinear, you can level to max in the first few zones hell you can level to max level gathering, there are very few quests, combat is completely different from WoW in several aspects, there is no gear treadmill, thought there are instanced dungeons/PvP.
Is gw2 a casual centric game? Yes, in fact it is significantly more casual than WoW. Yet at the same time gw2 is the least similar to WoW of any mainstream game (and likely any game period) released in the last 10 years.
I just said twice, its not about a single feature. Its about the casual philosophy that puts a little distance between the guy that plays a couple hours a week, and the hardcore. That is what a WoW clone is.
Look, its obvious the whole WoW clone thing is upsetting people. I don't care what games you play. I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't play ESO. I really don't care. Go nuts, have fun.
I think it's the idea of misrepresentation that is upsetting people, if anything is. That's the main driving force of these thread topics is: discussion, dispute, agreement, etc. and if one person thinks something is A and not B then it's disputed. That doesn't change the thing just because one person says it does.
I get that you think a "WoW clone" is any title that would be considered "casual" or not "hard core" but that is giving WoW a bit too much credit. Does ESO and WoW play the same way? Nope, not IMO so to me it isn't a WoW clone. To me it's not so much the ease of playing but the meta of progression, advancement, and avatar identity. These are day and night between ESO and WoW but I respect that you may disagree.
Ya, just to make sure I wasn't crazy, I went back and read these very forums. Six years ago and since its meant the same thing, casual games revolving around convenience. All the games of the past dubbed WoW clones had distinctions of their own, but all shared the same linear design. Almost all have the golden path, linear quest progression, solo play, fast leveling and instancing. If you want to tie it to particular features, those would be the ones. Look for yourself, or continue on in ignorance. It matters not to me.
Carry on though, facts change every day.
No need to be salty and call ignorance, I think you're better than that. These forums are not gospel on what umbrella MMOs fall under but those that spend a lot of time here may start to think so. You know as well as I do that MMOs are made of a lot of different pieces and at a point they all start to share similar features. If you look we are almost talking about the same thing. You may cherry pick things so it fits your argument but the simple question is does ESO play like WoW and therefore make is a WoW clone? I've played many MMOs that have felt like WoW but with a different skin, ESO is not one of them.
This knee-jerk urge to call MMOs "WoW Clones" because they aren't "hardcore" needs to stop. There is a particular faction that wants to turn back the clock on MMOs, at least with certain features (I'm one of them), but to slander every MMO that doesn't fit the criteria as a WoW clone is just being dishonest.
This knee-jerk urge to call MMOs "WoW Clones" because they aren't "hardcore" needs to stop. There is a particular faction that wants to turn back the clock on MMOs, at least with certain features (I'm one of them), but to slander every MMO that doesn't fit the criteria as a WoW clone is just being dishonest.
Nothing knee-jerk about the things I say. I do my research before commenting, and I will continue to call modern themeparks WoW clones as long as they are based around convenience. You guys can carry the political correctness torch in my stead.
This knee-jerk urge to call MMOs "WoW Clones" because they aren't "hardcore" needs to stop. There is a particular faction that wants to turn back the clock on MMOs, at least with certain features (I'm one of them), but to slander every MMO that doesn't fit the criteria as a WoW clone is just being dishonest.
Nothing knee-jerk about the things I say. I do my research before commenting, and I will continue to call modern themeparks WoW clones as long as they are based around convenience. You guys can carry the political correctness torch in my stead.
You can call them what you want, I don't think that has been the issue at all in this discussion. Just people trying to make sense of it.
Just to ask though...How do you research a singular definition of a term (with no real definition) that has been used in so many cases in so many different ways.. Going all the way back through a decade of games?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This knee-jerk urge to call MMOs "WoW Clones" because they aren't "hardcore" needs to stop. There is a particular faction that wants to turn back the clock on MMOs, at least with certain features (I'm one of them), but to slander every MMO that doesn't fit the criteria as a WoW clone is just being dishonest.
Nothing knee-jerk about the things I say. I do my research before commenting, and I will continue to call modern themeparks WoW clones as long as they are based around convenience. You guys can carry the political correctness torch in my stead.
LOL!
Wow...thanks for the last minute giggle. Research...and political correctness....whew...srsly.
This knee-jerk urge to call MMOs "WoW Clones" because they aren't "hardcore" needs to stop. There is a particular faction that wants to turn back the clock on MMOs, at least with certain features (I'm one of them), but to slander every MMO that doesn't fit the criteria as a WoW clone is just being dishonest.
Nothing knee-jerk about the things I say. I do my research before commenting, and I will continue to call modern themeparks WoW clones as long as they are based around convenience. You guys can carry the political correctness torch in my stead.
You can call them what you want, I don't think that has been the issue at all in this discussion. Just people trying to make sense of it.
Just to ask though...How do you research a singular definition of a term (with no real definition) that has been used in so many cases in so many different ways.. Going all the way back through a decade of games?
By research, I simply mean I play the games before I comment on them. I've been discussing and writing on MMOs for nearly 2 decades, so I'm well acquainted with the meaning and usual context of genre terminology.
This knee-jerk urge to call MMOs "WoW Clones" because they aren't "hardcore" needs to stop. There is a particular faction that wants to turn back the clock on MMOs, at least with certain features (I'm one of them), but to slander every MMO that doesn't fit the criteria as a WoW clone is just being dishonest.
Nothing knee-jerk about the things I say. I do my research before commenting, and I will continue to call modern themeparks WoW clones as long as they are based around convenience. You guys can carry the political correctness torch in my stead.
LOL!
Wow...thanks for the last minute giggle. Research...and political correctness....whew...srsly.
Jeebus. Some people
It all makes sense now, doesn't it? My beloved EQ1 is the true measure of all things. Comparing modern themeparks to each other can only result in foolishness.
Comments
I agree there. All around in fact....
Not worth arguing about anyway. I know what I grew up playing and what comparisons are true and what are trolls. Just can't figure out why anyone should care either way. Play the damn game or don't. Stop making posts or threads about things others like but you (no not you reeereee) do not like.
It's simple...you are NOT going to change anyone's mind on MMORPG, or ANY site, if they hate or like a game. Your facts (again...not reeereee :P) aren't fact...they are opinions. We, as players of said game(s), know what the game(s) play like. We aren't swayed by trolls.
Next Ima hafta defend my love of bacon double cheeseburgers on FB cause some nut doesn't like them.
Yep.
I hate to say someone is wrong, but Dull you are wrong!
If ESO is a WoW clone then WoW is a clone of the games before it and every MMORPG is a clone of them.
Im saying I DON'T CARE! Do you not get it? All modern games are clones of something. Get over yourself....
People were using that term in regard to SWG NGE. It didn't just begin five years ago, it started off as a derogatory way to describe games that were gear/quest based.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Then you know it has a different focus than WOW, it's not about a single feature it's about the focus of the design. WOW's main focus is running dungeons/Raids and gaining more and more outlandish looking shoulderpads. ESO is more about lore and story, With a secondary PVP focus.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
"In what ways is ESO a generic WoW clone?"
It's not. It's just something people say when they have little other frame of reference or can't form a unique comment. Someone says it about everything.
SWtOR, ok. Champions Online, ok. Wildstar, ok. Sure, it's pretty hard to argue against that. But like...
EQ2? Cringe. EQ2 released months earlier.
Warhammer? Cringe. What did they have in common? Themepark mmos with classes, levels, etc... If that is the criteria, then...
WoW was an EQ clone.
Oh, now panties will be in bunches.
Of course it wasn't, and neither is ESO a WoW clone.
On a side note, Rift was a bastard love-child of EQ2 and Warhammer. See, that's a better argument. It shows I've played more than 2 mmos in my life.
Wannabe-guy-who-pretends-he-knows-mmos-01 says, " (Insert game here) is a generic WoW clone! "
/block forum participant.
'WoW Clone' is one of those overused terms that have become synonymous with 'the game doesn't feel different enough'. It's gotten bad enough to the point where very few seem to even understand that label anymore, right up there with other labels like 'pay 2 win', 'sandbox', 'open world'. etc.
Personally I wouldn't call it a WoW clone, but there are a few features that are similar. Primarily dungeons, vertical progression, and loot grind. Now, those are hardly WoW-specific, but we're talking about a misused term here, so most people aren't using much logic when using this term.
Perhaps to a handful of bitter EQ1 vets that is what "WoW clone" means, but I assure you that is not what the vast majority believe, or ever believed the term to mean.
I just said twice, its not about a single feature. Its about the casual philosophy that puts a little distance between the guy that plays a couple hours a week, and the hardcore. That is what a WoW clone is.
Look, its obvious the whole WoW clone thing is upsetting people. I don't care what games you play. I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't play ESO. I really don't care. Go nuts, have fun.
Except, that's not at all what a WoW (or any) clone is. It has nothing to do w/ casual vs. hardcore. It has nothing to do w/ the mindset of those who play the game. It has everything to do with the majority of features from one game being ported / copied / transferred to a completely different game.
Does ESO and WoW share some features, yes they do. However so do all racing games, all FPS games, all fighting games. There are certain features that are staples of games made within a specific genre. For themepark fantasy MMOs, dungeons & quest hubs are some of these features.
Does WoW also have these features? Absolutely, but so do ALL MMOs within this same category. Even many of the ones that predate WoW.
- That doesn't stop people from using the term 'WoW Clone' as essentially stigmatic duct-tape, an all-use slander tool for w/e game isn't liked. But that doesn't make it correct, as has been explained & demonstrated in this very thread.
Let me just finish by saying I'm not a huge fan of ESO. Never have been, though I was interested in the RvR briefly. However, even though I dislike this game, I won't (and can't) get behind those who label it a WoW clone. It's not. It's not skyrim either, it's just a messy game with a lot of cool sounding features that were flawed on implementation.
I think it's the idea of misrepresentation that is upsetting people, if anything is. That's the main driving force of these thread topics is: discussion, dispute, agreement, etc. and if one person thinks something is A and not B then it's disputed. That doesn't change the thing just because one person says it does.
I get that you think a "WoW clone" is any title that would be considered "casual" or not "hard core" but that is giving WoW a bit too much credit. Does ESO and WoW play the same way? Nope, not IMO so to me it isn't a WoW clone. To me it's not so much the ease of playing but the meta of progression, advancement, and avatar identity. These are day and night between ESO and WoW but I respect that you may disagree.
Ya, just to make sure I wasn't crazy, I went back and read these very forums. Six years ago and since its meant the same thing, casual games revolving around convenience. All the games of the past dubbed WoW clones had distinctions of their own, but all shared the same linear design. Almost all have the golden path, linear quest progression, solo play, fast leveling and instancing. If you want to tie it to particular features, those would be the ones. Look for yourself, or continue on in ignorance. It matters not to me.
Carry on though, facts change every day.
Does eso have quest hubs - no
Does eso have gear/power as the core objective - no
Does eso make crafting meaningless - no
Does eso have lobbies - no
Does eso have garrisons/minions - no
Does wow have AA - no
Does wow have voice acted questing - no
Does wow have wvw - no
Does wow have global ah - yes
Does wow have nameplates - yes
Does wow have shared dps meters - yes
Does wow have gated content - yes
Does wow have a power ceiling - no.
Does wow gameplay consist of perfecting rotations - yes.
Totally different style of game
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
You neglected the gear treadmill and combat, but other than that very similar to what I would have said... I argued with you because you said there wasn't a features list and now you give me a features list that is fairly similar to what I would have said.
The problem is "casual games revolving around convenience" is so broad it includes just about every game released in the last 11 years. If every game since WoW is a WoW clone it starts to lose it's meaning no? The the term WoW clone simply comes to denote all games made after WoW was launched.
Though I suppose there are a few fringe games designed to appeal to the full loot PvP crowd like Darkfall and Mortal Online that wouldn't fall into that category.
Correction, I said designed around convenience, which implies systems which promote those things. They aren't really features. Don't think I've ever caught a commercial advertising the things that make a fantasy game less realistic and easier. Clone status isn't negated simply because a game has chocobos, magical rifts, light sabers, or a big ass open world battleground.
Different definition of features I guess. Having big ears is a feature of someones face. That person wanting to advertise it or not does not determine whether or not it is a feature.
I'll give you an example of where it gets interesting. gw2.
gw2 is highly nonlinear, you can level to max in the first few zones hell you can level to max level gathering, there are very few quests, combat is completely different from WoW in several aspects, there is no gear treadmill, thought there are instanced dungeons/PvP.
Is gw2 a casual centric game? Yes, in fact it is significantly more casual than WoW. Yet at the same time gw2 is the least similar to WoW of any mainstream game (and likely any game period) released in the last 10 years.
No need to be salty and call ignorance, I think you're better than that. These forums are not gospel on what umbrella MMOs fall under but those that spend a lot of time here may start to think so. You know as well as I do that MMOs are made of a lot of different pieces and at a point they all start to share similar features. If you look we are almost talking about the same thing. You may cherry pick things so it fits your argument but the simple question is does ESO play like WoW and therefore make is a WoW clone? I've played many MMOs that have felt like WoW but with a different skin, ESO is not one of them.
This knee-jerk urge to call MMOs "WoW Clones" because they aren't "hardcore" needs to stop. There is a particular faction that wants to turn back the clock on MMOs, at least with certain features (I'm one of them), but to slander every MMO that doesn't fit the criteria as a WoW clone is just being dishonest.
Nothing knee-jerk about the things I say. I do my research before commenting, and I will continue to call modern themeparks WoW clones as long as they are based around convenience. You guys can carry the political correctness torch in my stead.
You can call them what you want, I don't think that has been the issue at all in this discussion. Just people trying to make sense of it.
Just to ask though...How do you research a singular definition of a term (with no real definition) that has been used in so many cases in so many different ways.. Going all the way back through a decade of games?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
LOL!
Wow...thanks for the last minute giggle. Research...and political correctness....whew...srsly.
Jeebus. Some people
By research, I simply mean I play the games before I comment on them. I've been discussing and writing on MMOs for nearly 2 decades, so I'm well acquainted with the meaning and usual context of genre terminology.
It all makes sense now, doesn't it? My beloved EQ1 is the true measure of all things. Comparing modern themeparks to each other can only result in foolishness.
Oh wait, was it UO not EQ1?