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Black Desert to officially launch July 14th with a Mega Server

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  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,829
    Originally posted by MisterZebub

    I'd say yes and no. They are in fact a growing breed. They just choose to go play PVP games where they can avoid the boring hamster wheel progression time sink that almost all MMORPGs have become, and if I'm honest probably always have been.

    No real surprise there. MOBAs for example provide an even playing field, where the player's skill makes a huge difference in determining the match's outcome (not to mention their ability to work as a team).

    While on the other hand MMOs are pretty much about who has the best gear, and who can gain other advantages by putting in ridiculous amounts of time. MOBAs and FPS games are much better for actual PvPers, while MMOs hold a stronger appeal to griefers, who relish the opportunity to gain an advantage over others and to use it to the fullest for as long as they can.

    Of course large scale battles like castle sieges and RvR are also types of PvP that MMOs actually excel at. But it takes much longer to get into those as well. And often requires having a good guild to even be worth bothering with.

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,829
    Originally posted by YashaX

    Glad to see not every one is jumping on the Kano hate train about this game (sorry man, you often make great/insightful posts but you have just been bashing this game at every turn). From what I have read the devs have actually come up with some novel solutions to some of the problems that plague mmos and I am looking forward to seeing how it pans out.

     

     

    Pretty much. Black Desert is to Kano what PFO is to that Longshot fella (I think that's his name at least). Both really have it out for those particular games.

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,805
    Originally posted by danwest58

    While I know there are people who been wanting this type of game.  I personally dont see it doing well.  

     

     

    While I agree with you in many ways, you really haven't punched any holes. This is partly because you are basing your assessment on what you think the game should be over what the game will be.

    Is this game trying to foster large community? Probably not. There might be some sort of forum community but my guess is that the communities in this game will be small to solo and if small then probably tightly knit.

    So yes, crafting would be for yourself if there is no trading.

    People will probably just "shoot the shit" in general chat as they do in most games. That will be the extent of that.

    Since the game is f2p it probably will be mostly cosmetics. Look at Tera. some boosts here and there and lots of cosmetics/mounts. If Tera can do it I don't see why this game couldn't.

    You are basically saying "in order for the game to be how I think it should be it must have x, y and z and since it doesn't it won't be that way"

    When the reality is "this game only allows z, y and x therefore this is the way the game will be".

     

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,973

    There are some things that are just normal with MMO's no matter what type there are.  A large influx of players at the start, then a big drop of numbers after payers get bored or find the game is not for them.  A select group of players who do what-ever it takes to max out their stats for bragging rights.  Players who race to max level for bragging rights.  Players who complain about balance issues and demand nurfs causing a constant nerf cycle.  PvP or PvE doesn't matter.  These things will happen in any MMO.  So please don't say it's is because the game is pvp or pve, solo or group oriented.  It's going to happen just because it's an MMO and that's what players do in MMO's.

     

    Last thing, if open world sandbox pvp mmo's were viable there would be a lot more of them and they would be very successful.  Devs try to go with what the largest majority of a player base want in order to make maximum profits.  Sure the devs could create the type of open world pvp sandbox that some want but even if they did players would leave because it wouldn't be everything only they wanted in a game only what the devs wanted.  A lot of pvp'er want to gank.  They want easy victories and don't care about fairness or a good fight, only winning.  They would leave if the dev had heavy no gank policies.  Honorable players would say great, we don't want gankers anyway.  But open world pvp is a limited group and now they further cut the size of that group down and take a bigger cut in profits. 

     

    So even if the players got some of what they wanted it wouldn't be what they wanted because MMO's are not made for one person even if they feature solo content.  They are created for most players and if most players want solo content with limited pvp, then that's what going to be popular and where most of the money will be.

     

     

     

     

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • DemogorgonDemogorgon Member UncommonPosts: 361

    I'm personnally sick of the crafter types who want to get rich ( probably to surrogate the feeling they think it brings, not having it in RL ) by selling their 2 mins work at insane upward to 1000% profit.

    To me, it feels like the motivation is just to "get rich" & have their slice of the RMT market.

    I agree that the game fixing the price can go wrong in many ways, but it's better then having sucmbags rip you off to boost their fragile ego.

    Lets see how it goes & go from there.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,344
    Originally posted by Demogorgon

    I'm personnally sick of the crafter types who want to get rich ( probably to surrogate the feeling they think it brings, not having it in RL ) by selling their 2 mins work at insane upward to 1000% profit.

    To me, it feels like the motivation is just to "get rich" & have their slice of the RMT market.

    I agree that the game fixing the price can go wrong in many ways, but it's better then having sucmbags rip you off to boost their fragile ego.

    Lets see how it goes & go from there.

    I have no clue what the crafting system is like in this game. But dont sell short what crafters bring to the game. Much stability. I have run a few guilds and been the raid officer in many guilds. Fact is even crafters that dont raid are a huge asset to the guild. Bringing in gold and crafted items needed to make raids happen. I have no clue how this will work with BD but I cant picture raiding working well without being able to open a trade window with a crafter in the guild, or have a guild vault they can dump supplies into. Guess on that fact I am a wait and see camp.

  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685

    " Thus everyone will have the room to build a house and farm land, and won't have to worry about losing their land due to server merges in the future."

    Huh?  Unless the translation is wrong, they just said there is only 1 server.

    No PvP under 50?!  That's just ridiculous.  PvP'ers aren't going to wait that long. lol.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by Viper482
    Yet another modern day MMO which refuses to address community. Megaserver and solo centric play....no thanks.

    What do you mean refuses to address community? Community is something players create.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,805
    Originally posted by observer

    " Thus everyone will have the room to build a house and farm land, and won't have to worry about losing their land due to server merges in the future."

    Huh?  Unless the translation is wrong, they just said there is only 1 server.

    No PvP under 50?!  That's just ridiculous.  PvP'ers aren't going to wait that long. lol.

    Translation is probably incorrect.

    probably something like:

    "Because of the mega server technology everyone will have the room to build a house and farm land and won't have to worry about losing their land due to future server mergers like other games".

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,344
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Viper482
    Yet another modern day MMO which refuses to address community. Megaserver and solo centric play....no thanks.

    What do you mean refuses to address community? Community is something players create.

    Thats it in a nut shell. I find if you go back to an MMO a year after launch even the worst games have set up a community. Question is what type of people the game will bring in will be a big part of what kind of community. Sometimes I miss my EQ and DAoC days when I think of rich depth in a online community. =-) Solo sided games that dont require teaming often dose not seem to make the best communities but who knows its really a crap shoot now days lol

  • RedAlert539RedAlert539 Member UncommonPosts: 115

    Wow, so many buthurt comments from ppl who claim they wanted a "sandbox PvP" mmo. The same ppl who after a couple of months would ragequit because bots would claim all the available land so they couldn't build their own house(sandbox) and beacause they found the game to be P2W bacause ppl with money would gear their characters and one-shot kill them every chance they get(open world PvP).

    Yet they consider the "casual PVE" players to be the curse of the gaming community beacuse they ruin heir "ideal" mmos. While the casual players just want to have fun in their gaming time without all that drama i mentioned above.

    Go figure.....

  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 9,164
    The same people keep posting on Black Desert threads saying they are not interested. image
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,344
    Originally posted by RedAlert539

    Wow, so many buthurt comments from ppl who claim they wanted a "sandbox PvP" mmo. The same ppl who after a couple of months would ragequit because bots would claim all the available land so they couldn't build their own house(sandbox) and beacause they found the game to be P2W bacause ppl with money would gear their characters and one-shot kill them every chance they get(open world PvP).

    Yet they consider the "casual PVE" players to be the curse of the gaming community beacuse they ruin heir "ideal" mmos. While the casual players just want to have fun in their gaming time without all that drama i mentioned above.

    Go figure.....

    Ooo dont take the posters going on about how this makes this game not a real PvP game. All they have done is made PvP on a more level playing field. Real PvPers dont want to kill grey con players. They want to have a real fight. Stepping into battle and never knowing what can happen. Not camping some level 30 quest area to 1 and 2 shot players lol. This MMO still has siege style PvP and open world PvP combat. You get to top level and its a fight for your life =-) I only take on players who can bite back lol

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Viper482
    Yet another modern day MMO which refuses to address community. Megaserver and solo centric play....no thanks.

    What do you mean refuses to address community? Community is something players create.

    Thats it in a nut shell. I find if you go back to an MMO a year after launch even the worst games have set up a community. Question is what type of people the game will bring in will be a big part of what kind of community. Sometimes I miss my EQ and DAoC days when I think of rich depth in a online community. =-) Solo sided games that dont require teaming often dose not seem to make the best communities but who knows its really a crap shoot now days lol

    That has been my experience as well. What i find boggling are these folks who constantly go on and on about having nothing to play, yet then you see the same folks writing things like the above, you realize, they don't give anything a chance, don't do thing one in regard to forming a like-minded in-game community, yet expect people to understand when they go off on their rants about being left behind.

    This is the biggest fallacy I see here, in SWG we created our own community of like minded players, we formed an alliance of guilds out of it. The imperials had a similar group within their ranks, we duked it out for years. That had nothing to do with game systems... ALl we needed was those players and the ability to interact. What's missing today are those willing to put in the work to build those things, it took a lot of time and effort.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • SirBalinSirBalin Member UncommonPosts: 1,300
    Originally posted by danwest58
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by danwest58

    Here is a Critical thinking question for anyone who likes this game.  

    With this being a SOLO PVE game where even crafters cannot sell their wares between players.  What is the Difference between playing this game and starting your own Ultima Online Server and playing alone?  

    This has been said numerous times but people still socialize in these games.

    grouping does not equal socializing. I've been in groups where people not only said very little but didn't even acknowledge what I was saying.

    Now, it would be a shame if there was "no" group content but in the end that doesn't mean that people aren't going to socialize.

    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by danwest58

    Here is a Critical thinking question for anyone who likes this game.  

    With this being a SOLO PVE game where even crafters cannot sell their wares between players.  What is the Difference between playing this game and starting your own Ultima Online Server and playing alone?  

    One is an almost 20 year old Isometric MMO and the other is not... too obvious?

     

     

     

    No I am not going to discredit this game.  However I am going to punch wholes in the logic of this game.  

    First I can craft to my hearts desire however what is the point if I cannot sell my wares to anyone anywhere?  I would in effect be making a suit of Armor like I did in UO however, no one could buy it or use it besides me.  This makes crafting useless to the world or to the game.  Much like Crafting is basically useless in Neverwinter Nights 2.  Yes I can give that gear to one of the NPCs in NWN2 however its the same as picking up a weapon the is randomly generated from the game.  

     

    Second There is no economy meaning that a few things can happen.  Players are solely responsible for collecting mats for themselves no buying and trading, making the gear themselves or finding the gear in the world themselves.  Meaning that the developers can make this take a lot of time in game or force you to spend real money for in game gear.  Do you think that cosmetics will keep this game running alone?  If Crafting is useless unless you do it yourself and will be a huge pain in the ass to gather mats it will allow a publisher to effectively say you can buy what ever you want with real money.  

     

    Third While you do not need to be forced to group to be social, there still must be a need for people to interact with one another.  Example WOW's instances are easy players can group mobs up and AOE them down with no risk of wiping, And the boss fights you can completely ignore mechanics after the first month of the xpac because people are over geared and can carry you if you are under geared.  VS a game like FFXIV you cannot ignore mechanics on bosses at all so a new player who does not know a level 50 boss can wipe the group and keep the group from killing the boss.  So its EASIER to just interact with people.  It does not mean you need to be friends or Social however it does open up a NEED.  In earlier MMOs it was near impossible to do everything in game yourself so you NEEDED to interact with other people it does not mean you had to be social HOWEVER because there was a NEED because you couldnt do it all yourself.  

    So if there is no NEED for you to interact with people do you really think a community will develop?  Maybe a small community will develop like there were in games like Diablo, however it will not be a large community of crafters over here, and PVP players who want to go blow up an Imps base over here, and over here a bunch of people who want to go do PVE stuff.  Basically what I am saying is the community will be at best small groups of people running together not looking to run with other than their friends and no looking to make new friends.

     

    While I know there are people who been wanting this type of game.  I personally dont see it doing well.  

     

     

    You actually can make money crafting and selling, you just don't get to set the prices, the game has a system that does it for you,b ut you put it on the ah and it sells.  Just can't give it to friends.  ikn, I was torn on this at first, but it is true, the system they have in place will eliminate bots in the game, at least better than other games have.  Being that this feels so much like L2...think of how great l2 would have been had NCSoft not had supported botting more or less.

    Incognito
    www.incognito-gaming.us
    "You're either with us or against us"

  • SirBalinSirBalin Member UncommonPosts: 1,300
    Originally posted by observer

    " Thus everyone will have the room to build a house and farm land, and won't have to worry about losing their land due to server merges in the future."

    Huh?  Unless the translation is wrong, they just said there is only 1 server.

    No PvP under 50?!  That's just ridiculous.  PvP'ers aren't going to wait that long. lol.

    Some of you guys...you are posting before you have played the game.  Just an fyi, you can get to 50 in a day or 2...then the grind get's crazy, so it's not a big deal.  That said, I don't like the rule, but its not game breaking.  The reason everyone can have a farm or house, etc...well, it's kind of odd, but cool.  You can drop a farm right on top of someone elses more or less, but when you walk into it, it's your farm, but if someone else walks into it, it's their farm, you have full control of your stuff and it looks seamless...it's kind of cool tbh.  Not sure how they do it.  

     

    Also, they did openly say in an FAQ that they are catoring towards the koreans not us and we will be seeing major differences in the game for the western audiance, including the pvp levels.  

    For example, russia right now pvp starts at level 20 and the grind to 50 is much harder, karma system is more a flagging type of system like L2...so stop throwing random comments out about a korean game that they already said won't be like ours...this is nuts...lol.

    Incognito
    www.incognito-gaming.us
    "You're either with us or against us"

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,344
    Originally posted by SirBalin
    Originally posted by observer

    " Thus everyone will have the room to build a house and farm land, and won't have to worry about losing their land due to server merges in the future."

    Huh?  Unless the translation is wrong, they just said there is only 1 server.

    No PvP under 50?!  That's just ridiculous.  PvP'ers aren't going to wait that long. lol.

    Some of you guys...you are posting before you have played the game.  Just an fyi, you can get to 50 in a day or 2...then the grind get's crazy, so it's not a big deal.  That said, I don't like the rule, but its not game breaking.  The reason everyone can have a farm or house, etc...well, it's kind of odd, but cool.  You can drop a farm right on top of someone elses more or less, but when you walk into it, it's your farm, but if someone else walks into it, it's their farm, you have full control of your stuff and it looks seamless...it's kind of cool tbh.  Not sure how they do it.  

     

    Also, they did openly say in an FAQ that they are catoring towards the koreans not us and we will be seeing major differences in the game for the western audiance, including the pvp levels.  

    For example, russia right now pvp starts at level 20 and the grind to 50 is much harder, karma system is more a flagging type of system like L2...so stop throwing random comments out about a korean game that they already said won't be like ours...this is nuts...lol.

    Hope NA copy of the game is not far from the Korean's copy. I kinda like where they are shooting. 

  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    Originally posted by Azaron_Nightblade
    Originally posted by MisterZebub

    I'd say yes and no. They are in fact a growing breed. They just choose to go play PVP games where they can avoid the boring hamster wheel progression time sink that almost all MMORPGs have become, and if I'm honest probably always have been.

    No real surprise there. MOBAs for example provide an even playing field, where the player's skill makes a huge difference in determining the match's outcome (not to mention their ability to work as a team).

    While on the other hand MMOs are pretty much about who has the best gear, and who can gain other advantages by putting in ridiculous amounts of time. MOBAs and FPS games are much better for actual PvPers, while MMOs hold a stronger appeal to griefers, who relish the opportunity to gain an advantage over others and to use it to the fullest for as long as they can.

    Of course large scale battles like castle sieges and RvR are also types of PvP that MMOs actually excel at. But it takes much longer to get into those as well. And often requires having a good guild to even be worth bothering with.

     

    There are so many good posts in this thread.  Many of them taking the words right out from under me but I really wanted to highlight this post and maybe piggy back on thoughts that I've had along these lines.

    Why is it that OWPvPers want to play an MMORPG like an FPS game when there are so many fantastic FPS and MOBA games that offer exactly what they seek?  For the record, I like OWPvP.  My buddies and I spend countless hours enjoying OWPvP in games like Team Fortress, Call of Duty, Doom, Dead Island, Halo etc.  I just don't like "forced" OWPvP in my MMORPGs.  My buddies even refuse to PvP in MMORPGs.  They call it  "little league" and to put it mildly "cowardly PvP" (don't want to offend anyone so won't type what they really say).

    I think most, if not all, OWPvPers know this.  There are tons of outstanding PvP FPS game out there and yet these so-call "hardcore PvPers" come to an MMORPG to get their PvP fix.  That wouldn't be so bad if once they got there they wouldn't start complaining about hating quests, hating levels, hating RP, hating grinds for gear, hating crafting, hating .... well, you get the point.  I mean, they hate everything that makes an MMORPG an MMORPG!  Their perfect MMORPG is one that is OW and has "forced" PvP so they can just jump into and start PvPing and ganking right away.  And if they can make it to where they can take all of your stuff after ganking you (full loot), well, so much the better.

    So this brings me to my point, and the one Azaron and Octagon make in their posts.  These so called OWPvPers aren't looking for challenging PvP.  They aren't hardcore at all.  What they seek is sheep to gank and victimize.  They don't even want the PvP to be consensual.  They want the "forced" OWPvP variety.  And since there is a healthy dosage of sheep in MMORPGs, this is where they come.  Because if they really wanted hardcore, challenging, PvP .. that they could just jump into and start kicking butt and taking names, avoiding all of the so-called "carebearish" functions that make an MMORPG .. they wouldn't be trying to PvP in an MMORPG.  They would be were the big boys are  ... in those "hardcore" FPS PvP games.

     

     

  • SirBalinSirBalin Member UncommonPosts: 1,300
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by SirBalin
    Originally posted by observer

    " Thus everyone will have the room to build a house and farm land, and won't have to worry about losing their land due to server merges in the future."

    Huh?  Unless the translation is wrong, they just said there is only 1 server.

    No PvP under 50?!  That's just ridiculous.  PvP'ers aren't going to wait that long. lol.

    Some of you guys...you are posting before you have played the game.  Just an fyi, you can get to 50 in a day or 2...then the grind get's crazy, so it's not a big deal.  That said, I don't like the rule, but its not game breaking.  The reason everyone can have a farm or house, etc...well, it's kind of odd, but cool.  You can drop a farm right on top of someone elses more or less, but when you walk into it, it's your farm, but if someone else walks into it, it's their farm, you have full control of your stuff and it looks seamless...it's kind of cool tbh.  Not sure how they do it.  

     

    Also, they did openly say in an FAQ that they are catoring towards the koreans not us and we will be seeing major differences in the game for the western audiance, including the pvp levels.  

    For example, russia right now pvp starts at level 20 and the grind to 50 is much harder, karma system is more a flagging type of system like L2...so stop throwing random comments out about a korean game that they already said won't be like ours...this is nuts...lol.

    Hope NA copy of the game is not far from the Korean's copy. I kinda like where they are shooting. 

    I actually think you will disagree later.  Reasons why, this is a niche game and it will never cator to the masses.  So, if they try to favor the masses, but still don't really hit the masses, you won't get the niche, or the masses, you get Darkfall UW....death basically.  All the companies that try to make everyone happy make no one happy.  Either go for the niche game or cater to the masses, not both...

    Incognito
    www.incognito-gaming.us
    "You're either with us or against us"

  • SirBalinSirBalin Member UncommonPosts: 1,300
    Originally posted by LacedOpium
    Originally posted by Azaron_Nightblade
    Originally posted by MisterZebub

    I'd say yes and no. They are in fact a growing breed. They just choose to go play PVP games where they can avoid the boring hamster wheel progression time sink that almost all MMORPGs have become, and if I'm honest probably always have been.

    No real surprise there. MOBAs for example provide an even playing field, where the player's skill makes a huge difference in determining the match's outcome (not to mention their ability to work as a team).

    While on the other hand MMOs are pretty much about who has the best gear, and who can gain other advantages by putting in ridiculous amounts of time. MOBAs and FPS games are much better for actual PvPers, while MMOs hold a stronger appeal to griefers, who relish the opportunity to gain an advantage over others and to use it to the fullest for as long as they can.

    Of course large scale battles like castle sieges and RvR are also types of PvP that MMOs actually excel at. But it takes much longer to get into those as well. And often requires having a good guild to even be worth bothering with.

     

    There are so many good posts in this thread.  Many of them taking the words right out from under me but I really wanted to highlight this post and maybe piggy back on thoughts that I've had along these lines.

    Why is it that PvPers want to play an MMORPG like an FPS game when there are so many fantastic FPS and MOBA games that offer exactly what they seek?  For the record, I like PvP.  My buddies and I spend countless hours enjoying PvP in games like Team Fortress, Call of Duty, Doom, Dead Island, Halo etc.  I just don't like PvP in my MMORPGs.  My buddies even refuse to PvP in MMORPGs.  They call it  "little league" and to put it mildly "cowardly PvP" (don't want to offend anyone so won't type what they really say).

    I think most, if not all, PvPers know this.  There are tons of outstanding PvP FPS game out there and yet these so-call "hardcore PvPers" come to an MMORPG to get their PvP fix.  That wouldn't be so bad if once they got there they wouldn't start complaining about hating quests, hating levels, hating RP, hating grinds for gear, hating crafting, hating .... well, you get the point.  I mean, they hate everything that makes a game an MMORPG!  Their perfect MMORPG is one that you can just jump into and start PvPing and ganking right away.  And if they can make it to where they can take all of your stuff after ganking you (full loot), well, so much the better.

    So this brings me to my point, and the one Azaron makes in his post.  These so called PvPers aren't looking for challenging PvP.  They aren't hardcore at all.  What they seek is sheep to gank and victimize.  And since there is a healthy dosage of them in MMORPGs, this is where they come.  Because if they really wanted hardcore, challenging, PvP .. that they could just jump into and start kicking butt and taking names, avoiding all of the so-called "carebearish" functions that make an MMORPG .. they wouldn't be trying to PvP in an MMORPG.  They would be were the big boys are  ... in those "hardcore" FPS PvP games.

     

     

    Um no...and no, and then no.  I have been a hardcore pvper for years, however I hate mobas and fps games.  I know tons of people like me that came from games like L2, SWG, UO, Eve, Darkfall that love to know that while out there in the world grinding, you can get jumped at any moment.  These games for the most part are grinders, the grind keeps you in the open world, and while grinding you get jumped, it's not talentless or non challenging pvp, its will many thrive on.  Most of the people that like these kind of pvp hate mobas and fps, they just aren't deep enough.  

    Incognito
    www.incognito-gaming.us
    "You're either with us or against us"

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by SirBalin
     

    Um no...and no, and then no.  I have been a hardcore pvper for years, however I hate mobas and fps games.  I know tons of people like me that came from games like L2, SWG, UO, Eve, Darkfall that love to know that while out there in the world grinding, you can get jumped at any moment.  These games for the most part are grinders, the grind keeps you in the open world, and while grinding you get jumped, it's not talentless or non challenging pvp, its will many thrive on.  Most of the people that like these kind of pvp hate mobas and fps, they just aren't deep enough.  

    I have to agree, I feel most PVP today isn't really deep enough, as the community taking part really doesn't do much with it, they just fight. There's no greater body of players coming together being creative by taking advantage of what you can do with a little bit of imagination and a strong body of players. At some point ego totally took over in regard to PVP.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    Originally posted by SirBalin
    Originally posted by LacedOpium
    Originally posted by Azaron_Nightblade
    Originally posted by MisterZebub

    I'd say yes and no. They are in fact a growing breed. They just choose to go play PVP games where they can avoid the boring hamster wheel progression time sink that almost all MMORPGs have become, and if I'm honest probably always have been.

    No real surprise there. MOBAs for example provide an even playing field, where the player's skill makes a huge difference in determining the match's outcome (not to mention their ability to work as a team).

    While on the other hand MMOs are pretty much about who has the best gear, and who can gain other advantages by putting in ridiculous amounts of time. MOBAs and FPS games are much better for actual PvPers, while MMOs hold a stronger appeal to griefers, who relish the opportunity to gain an advantage over others and to use it to the fullest for as long as they can.

    Of course large scale battles like castle sieges and RvR are also types of PvP that MMOs actually excel at. But it takes much longer to get into those as well. And often requires having a good guild to even be worth bothering with.

     

    There are so many good posts in this thread.  Many of them taking the words right out from under me but I really wanted to highlight this post and maybe piggy back on thoughts that I've had along these lines.

    Why is it that PvPers want to play an MMORPG like an FPS game when there are so many fantastic FPS and MOBA games that offer exactly what they seek?  For the record, I like PvP.  My buddies and I spend countless hours enjoying PvP in games like Team Fortress, Call of Duty, Doom, Dead Island, Halo etc.  I just don't like PvP in my MMORPGs.  My buddies even refuse to PvP in MMORPGs.  They call it  "little league" and to put it mildly "cowardly PvP" (don't want to offend anyone so won't type what they really say).

    I think most, if not all, PvPers know this.  There are tons of outstanding PvP FPS game out there and yet these so-call "hardcore PvPers" come to an MMORPG to get their PvP fix.  That wouldn't be so bad if once they got there they wouldn't start complaining about hating quests, hating levels, hating RP, hating grinds for gear, hating crafting, hating .... well, you get the point.  I mean, they hate everything that makes a game an MMORPG!  Their perfect MMORPG is one that you can just jump into and start PvPing and ganking right away.  And if they can make it to where they can take all of your stuff after ganking you (full loot), well, so much the better.

    So this brings me to my point, and the one Azaron makes in his post.  These so called PvPers aren't looking for challenging PvP.  They aren't hardcore at all.  What they seek is sheep to gank and victimize.  And since there is a healthy dosage of them in MMORPGs, this is where they come.  Because if they really wanted hardcore, challenging, PvP .. that they could just jump into and start kicking butt and taking names, avoiding all of the so-called "carebearish" functions that make an MMORPG .. they wouldn't be trying to PvP in an MMORPG.  They would be were the big boys are  ... in those "hardcore" FPS PvP games.

     

     

    Um no...and no, and then no.  I have been a hardcore pvper for years, however I hate mobas and fps games.  I know tons of people like me that came from games like L2, SWG, UO, Eve, Darkfall that love to know that while out there in the world grinding, you can get jumped at any moment.  These games for the most part are grinders, the grind keeps you in the open world, and while grinding you get jumped, it's not talentless or non challenging pvp, its will many thrive on.  Most of the people that like these kind of pvp hate mobas and fps, they just aren't deep enough.  

     

    In other words, you are just confirming my point.  You don't want challenging 1 vs. 1 PvP.  You want to jump or "gank" a player while he/she is not paying attention grinding.  That's not competitive PvP my friend.  There is a much better name for it, and it has nothing to do with competitive PvP.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by LacedOpium
     

     

    In other words, you are just confirming my point.  You don't want challenging 1 vs. 1 PvP.  You want to jump or "gank" a player while he is not paying attention grinding.  That's not PvP my friend.  There is a much better name for it, and it has nothing to do with competitive PvP.

    That is a fair point, there is that element at play within the PVP community, yet as you said that's not really PVP, that's just being an asshat. However, there is a point to what Ballin said as well, as there is a difference between threat, and ganking. Threat is what OWPVP or flagged PVP can bring to the table, it adds another level of play to what's at hand. This is why I prefer a system like SWG used, flagging and guild warring, you get a greater quality of battle in that type of system, as those fighting are there to fight.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by LacedOpium
     

     

    In other words, you are just confirming my point.  You don't want challenging 1 vs. 1 PvP.  You want to jump or "gank" a player while he is not paying attention grinding.  That's not PvP my friend.  There is a much better name for it, and it has nothing to do with competitive PvP.

    That is a fair point, there is that element at play within the PVP community, yet as you said that's not really PVP, that's just being an asshat. However, there is a point to what Ballin said as well, as there is a difference between threat, and ganking. Threat is what OWPVP or flagged PVP can bring to the table, it adds another level of play to what's at hand. This is why I prefer a system like SWG used, flagging and guild warring, you get a greater quality of battle in that type of system, as those fighting are there to fight.

     

    You make a point.  And it would be all and good if it was what these PvPers wanted also.  But its not.  They want "forced" not "consensual" OWPvP, and all the better if its full loot.  Heck, for many of them, their ultimate climax is a death penalty that will take you out of the game completely.  What they seek is grief, to put it mildly.  It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    Originally posted by SirBalin
    Originally posted by danwest58
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by danwest58

    Here is a Critical thinking question for anyone who likes this game.  

    With this being a SOLO PVE game where even crafters cannot sell their wares between players.  What is the Difference between playing this game and starting your own Ultima Online Server and playing alone?  

    This has been said numerous times but people still socialize in these games.

    grouping does not equal socializing. I've been in groups where people not only said very little but didn't even acknowledge what I was saying.

    Now, it would be a shame if there was "no" group content but in the end that doesn't mean that people aren't going to socialize.

    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by danwest58

     

     

     

    You actually can make money crafting and selling, you just don't get to set the prices, the game has a system that does it for you,b ut you put it on the ah and it sells.  Just can't give it to friends.  ikn, I was torn on this at first, but it is true, the system they have in place will eliminate bots in the game, at least better than other games have.  Being that this feels so much like L2...think of how great l2 would have been had NCSoft not had supported botting more or less.

     

    Not bashing the game here ok.

    It just does not make sense for the game to set the prices for crafters because then your telling these crafters here is what your time is worth.  Also why should I not be able to make gear for my friends and in a secure trade give it to them.  Again I am not bashing the game.  These are things that make no sense to me at all.  I played UO ok, when I wanted solo time and to craft I did so however I set the prices I wanted to sell my wares for not the game.  I also made gear for my friends and in secure trades I gave them the gear I wanted them to have.  

    If the aim was to get rid of the bots just add bots to the game in the form of Extractors like SWG had.  Also and Player own vendors and a Market board.  Yea there were bots in SWG however they were pointless because you needed to place the extractors and keep moving them.  More Farmers than botters playing though.  

     

    Again I am NOT bashing the game.  I think the logic is flawed though.  Well the Only real thing I will say negative about this game so far is the Cash shop.  Yes I know cash shops are apart of MMOs now however if they are truly making a PVE Sandbox MMO like SWG and UO then they only need subs they do not need F2P or B2P with Cash shops.  Cash Shops and Sandboxes do not work because if the company can see it can make another $1000 a month off selling stuff like Labor Pots or anything around crafting and people will pay it I will not do it.  

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