i dont care anymore how anyone uses the term mmo, mmorpg, or any other term.
I would consider mobas mmos (or closer to mmos) if the lobby was a playable area for everyone to gather around and do match making and other stuff. I can see that happening in the future (for casual mobas at least) since games like Destiny, vindictus, and even Dust 514 have that. I think Warframe is adding that open lobby as well in the future. That could make mobas more interesting, but as long as mobas stay point and click only i really dont care much what happens to that type of games.
Yeah not sure how MOBAs are considered MMOs. There are no public lobbies and the most players you can ever interact with at any given time is 10. Basically just like any online multiplayer game.
And if we are going to consider MOBAs, I would think they are responsible for at least 50% of MMO category.
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
I think they are mistaken in calling it a shift, but rather a burgeoning new market of players. Do they really believe that gamers are unable to enjoy different genres of games, so much so that it's required to homogenize or even stop catering to one or the other? How simple minded and narrow that line of thinking is.
Reading through the thread... so much for the "common" usage. What a joke.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
65.4% agrees that MMO will "broaden to mean many kind of online games and survive" ... I guess superdata already takes the lead to broaden it a little more .....
apparently just following all the websites & reviewers to call World of Tanks a MMO is not enough, and I guess MOBA is next.
MOBAs have more challenging group play than 90% of all mmos released in the last 5 years. of course they are gaining in popularity. it's not that MOBAS have become better, mmorpgs have become way worse. bunch of single player, spoon feed, mindlessly repetitive grind mills they have become.
oh, do you don't know who to talk to? let me put a giant question mark on said guy, so you can see him from a mile off.
oh, you don't know where to go? let me put an arrow on your mini map with an X right where you need to go.
oh, you don't know how to find your mini map on the top right of you screen? let me just highlight the path for you so all you have to do is follow the giant yellow line on the floor just like if you were in a mental hospital.
oh, you don't know how to follow a giant yellow line on the floor in front of you? let me just level you up while you stand still right there for absolutely no reason except to avoid you getting frustrated and leaving this game for the next fotm mmo....
.......absolutely no challenge, absolutely no skill required, absolutely no interaction needed.....PEOPLE WANT A CHALLENGE. and no challenge is as fun as one you can complete with friends. meh, back to Dota 2 i guess....
65.4% agrees that MMO will "broaden to mean many kind of online games and survive" ... I guess superdata already takes the lead to broaden it a little more .....
apparently just following all the websites & reviewers to call World of Tanks a MMO is not enough, and I guess MOBA is next.
Here buddy I'll help you out by making that a link, because who wouldn't want to read that stellar thread. I know I voted for "Broadened and whatever" in your poll, or was it useless and irrelevant, same thing.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
65.4% agrees that MMO will "broaden to mean many kind of online games and survive" ... I guess superdata already takes the lead to broaden it a little more .....
apparently just following all the websites & reviewers to call World of Tanks a MMO is not enough, and I guess MOBA is next.
Still not yellow, no matter how many people try to call it so.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
65.4% agrees that MMO will "broaden to mean many kind of online games and survive" ... I guess superdata already takes the lead to broaden it a little more .....
apparently just following all the websites & reviewers to call World of Tanks a MMO is not enough, and I guess MOBA is next.
Still not yellow, no matter how many people try to call it so.
Indeed.
Perhaps les chinois were in fact incorrect. I wouldn't be shocked and it wouldn't be the first the first time.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I wonder if Dale Addink secretly lurks these threads and laughs at how easy you people are to market to.
Seriously though, one guy gets up on stage and E3, throws out some buzzwords and these forums have been riding his jock to this day.
Massive: Cannot be and has not been quantified by any standard, professional or otherwise.
Mutliplayer: Multiple players, well that's simple.
Online: Not offline
Role: The function of an assumed part played by a person.
Playing: Engaging in activity.
the Game: Something you lost.
So nixing the word Massive due to it's uselessness as a word, you are left with MORPG, which technically can be used to describe any of those Aeons of Strife clones. However, what should be most alarmed over, is the amount of money these "Superdata" analyzers make by selling their data at exorbitant prices to paranoid investors.
Well, considering FPS games even in the 90s were playable by up to 30+ people at a time, I think its safe to say massively is considerably more than that.
I wonder if Dale Addink secretly lurks these threads and laughs at how easy you people are to market to.
Seriously though, one guy gets up on stage and E3, throws out some buzzwords and these forums have been riding his jock to this day.
Massive: Cannot be and has not been quantified by any standard, professional or otherwise.
Mutliplayer: Multiple players, well that's simple.
Online: Not offline
Role: The function of an assumed part played by a person.
Playing: Engaging in activity.
the Game: Something you lost.
So nixing the word Massive due to it's uselessness as a word, you are left with MORPG, which technically can be used to describe any of those Aeons of Strife clones. However, what should be most alarmed over, is the amount of money these "Superdata" analyzers make by selling their data at exorbitant prices to paranoid investors.
Well it was actually Massively not massive, so there are some parameters around that. It is an adverb of the adjective multiplayer, so by definition it has to have more than multiplayer, whatever amount that is.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I wonder if Dale Addink secretly lurks these threads and laughs at how easy you people are to market to.
Seriously though, one guy gets up on stage and E3, throws out some buzzwords and these forums have been riding his jock to this day.
Massive: Cannot be and has not been quantified by any standard, professional or otherwise.
Mutliplayer: Multiple players, well that's simple.
Online: Not offline
Role: The function of an assumed part played by a person.
Playing: Engaging in activity.
the Game: Something you lost.
So nixing the word Massive due to it's uselessness as a word, you are left with MORPG, which technically can be used to describe any of those Aeons of Strife clones. However, what should be most alarmed over, is the amount of money these "Superdata" analyzers make by selling their data at exorbitant prices to paranoid investors.
First word is massively. Massively multiplayer means that the multiplayer activity is massive so a large number of players at the same time. Also MMORPGs have a persistent world. That is the defining feature if you look at any definition of an MMORPG, e.g. Wikipedia. Mobas don't have a persistent world.
If we go about nit picking words like that then I can every game an RTS. Real time - yep, all games but turn based games are in real time and all games involve strategy. Does that mean that wow is an RTS?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
65.4% agrees that MMO will "broaden to mean many kind of online games and survive" ... I guess superdata already takes the lead to broaden it a little more .....
apparently just following all the websites & reviewers to call World of Tanks a MMO is not enough, and I guess MOBA is next.
Still not yellow, no matter how many people try to call it so.
Only to those who insists of "being correct" .... who is the authority on that?
If everyone is ignoring that said authority ... yellow becomes blue. In fact, in China .. which has MORE people than in the US, yellow is called "wang". (or something like that) ... so there you go .. .all the chinese people must be wrong.
So nixing the word Massive due to it's uselessness as a word, you are left with MORPG, which technically can be used to describe any of those Aeons of Strife clones. However, what should be most alarmed over, is the amount of money these "Superdata" analyzers make by selling their data at exorbitant prices to paranoid investors.
Think of the word "massiveLY" as your appendix .. it is just there with no function and not very relevant. It just hangs there for legacy reasons.
Still not yellow, no matter how many people try to call it so.
Only to those who insists of "being correct" .... who is the authority on that?
If everyone is ignoring that said authority ... yellow becomes blue. In fact, in China .. which has MORE people than in the US, yellow is called "wang". (or something like that) ... so there you go .. .all the chinese people must be wrong.
The different languages factor blows this whole China deal out of the water. You'll have to reach for something else I'm afraid.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Still not yellow, no matter how many people try to call it so.
Only to those who insists of "being correct" .... who is the authority on that?
If everyone is ignoring that said authority ... yellow becomes blue. In fact, in China .. which has MORE people than in the US, yellow is called "wang". (or something like that) ... so there you go .. .all the chinese people must be wrong.
The different languages factor blows this whole China deal out of the water. You'll have to reach for something else I'm afraid.
nah .. just think that the gaming industry is using a slightly different language, and don't care about the "correct" english definition.
Originally posted by collekt Agreed, the camera kind of bugs me too. I also just can't get into the whole click to move control scheme of MOBAs. I wish I could since they are so popular right now.
Players will either complain the art sucks, or they'll complain the zoom is too close. Typically art wins out, since few games are willing to look ugly for the sake of a bigger zoom. (Supreme Commander isn't necessarily a bad game, but it definitely looks awful since 95% of the time you're zoomed out so far that everything is some abstract unit icon, rather than seeing the units themselves.)
Also forcing the view close in increases the skill involved. Camera manipulation often isn't the most enjoyable form of skill depth, but it does end up making these games a little deeper.
None of which changes the fact that you dislike it, of course, but at least you can understand why the decisions are made.
I already understood the reasoning for the camera zoom, I didn't need it laid out for me but thanks anyway. I'm also not saying I'd want to be able to zoom WAY out and see the whole map either, but just a little bit further out would make it more enjoyable for me. That being said, MOBAs are doing extremely well so they obviously don't need to change it. It's just my personal opinion about them. I'd still play them if I could get over the click to move control scheme as I do enjoy competitive games, I just can't get into it.
I see MOBA as a new kind of game, not a MMO at all. The proportion of the market MMOs hold is shrinking as new types of game muscle in. But for that matter FPS, platform games and all the other forms of gaming see their portion of the industry shrink when a new kid comes on the block.
Still not yellow, no matter how many people try to call it so.
Only to those who insists of "being correct" .... who is the authority on that?
If everyone is ignoring that said authority ... yellow becomes blue. In fact, in China .. which has MORE people than in the US, yellow is called "wang". (or something like that) ... so there you go .. .all the chinese people must be wrong.
The different languages factor blows this whole China deal out of the water. You'll have to reach for something else I'm afraid.
Well, the Chinese call yellow Huáng, and would never confuse it with blue Lán sè. I'll bet they know the difference between a MMO and a MOBA as well, pretty smart folks over there.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Still not yellow, no matter how many people try to call it so.
Only to those who insists of "being correct" .... who is the authority on that?
If everyone is ignoring that said authority ... yellow becomes blue. In fact, in China .. which has MORE people than in the US, yellow is called "wang". (or something like that) ... so there you go .. .all the chinese people must be wrong.
The different languages factor blows this whole China deal out of the water. You'll have to reach for something else I'm afraid.
Well, the Chinese call yellow Huáng, and would never confuse it with blue Lán sè. I'll bet they know the difference between a MMO and a MOBA as well, pretty smart folks over there.
Yes they are, which is why they don't confuse MOBA's with MMO's either.
Thing is, if the MOBA's are not claiming to be MMO's in the first place, so the whole argument is entirely redundant, MOBA's are not MMO's.
In the end, it doesn't really matter whether or not some people accept this or not, the world goes on regardless, and there is one thing that is practically certain, if the various MOBA's shut down tomorrow, all those players wouldn't miraculously start playing MMO's and vice versa, as while some MMO players do in fact play both types of games, the vast majority play one or the other, and probably have little more than a passing curiousity for the other type of game.
Comments
i dont care anymore how anyone uses the term mmo, mmorpg, or any other term.
I would consider mobas mmos (or closer to mmos) if the lobby was a playable area for everyone to gather around and do match making and other stuff. I can see that happening in the future (for casual mobas at least) since games like Destiny, vindictus, and even Dust 514 have that. I think Warframe is adding that open lobby as well in the future. That could make mobas more interesting, but as long as mobas stay point and click only i really dont care much what happens to that type of games.
Yeah not sure how MOBAs are considered MMOs. There are no public lobbies and the most players you can ever interact with at any given time is 10. Basically just like any online multiplayer game.
And if we are going to consider MOBAs, I would think they are responsible for at least 50% of MMO category.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
I think they are mistaken in calling it a shift, but rather a burgeoning new market of players. Do they really believe that gamers are unable to enjoy different genres of games, so much so that it's required to homogenize or even stop catering to one or the other? How simple minded and narrow that line of thinking is.
well ... at least with superdata 's data .. it is 24% ... in terms of revenue i think.
In terms of playtime, or active players, it can be much higher.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
and yet .. on this topic:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/432149/What-is-the-fate-of-the-label-MMO-Wither-and-die-or-broadened-and-changed.html
65.4% agrees that MMO will "broaden to mean many kind of online games and survive" ... I guess superdata already takes the lead to broaden it a little more .....
apparently just following all the websites & reviewers to call World of Tanks a MMO is not enough, and I guess MOBA is next.
not surprised really.
MOBAs have more challenging group play than 90% of all mmos released in the last 5 years. of course they are gaining in popularity. it's not that MOBAS have become better, mmorpgs have become way worse. bunch of single player, spoon feed, mindlessly repetitive grind mills they have become.
oh, do you don't know who to talk to? let me put a giant question mark on said guy, so you can see him from a mile off.
oh, you don't know where to go? let me put an arrow on your mini map with an X right where you need to go.
oh, you don't know how to find your mini map on the top right of you screen? let me just highlight the path for you so all you have to do is follow the giant yellow line on the floor just like if you were in a mental hospital.
oh, you don't know how to follow a giant yellow line on the floor in front of you? let me just level you up while you stand still right there for absolutely no reason except to avoid you getting frustrated and leaving this game for the next fotm mmo....
.......absolutely no challenge, absolutely no skill required, absolutely no interaction needed.....PEOPLE WANT A CHALLENGE. and no challenge is as fun as one you can complete with friends. meh, back to Dota 2 i guess....
Here buddy I'll help you out by making that a link, because who wouldn't want to read that stellar thread. I know I voted for "Broadened and whatever" in your poll, or was it useless and irrelevant, same thing.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Still not yellow, no matter how many people try to call it so.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Indeed.
Perhaps les chinois were in fact incorrect. I wouldn't be shocked and it wouldn't be the first the first time.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I wonder if Dale Addink secretly lurks these threads and laughs at how easy you people are to market to.
Seriously though, one guy gets up on stage and E3, throws out some buzzwords and these forums have been riding his jock to this day.
Massive: Cannot be and has not been quantified by any standard, professional or otherwise.
Mutliplayer: Multiple players, well that's simple.
Online: Not offline
Role: The function of an assumed part played by a person.
Playing: Engaging in activity.
the Game: Something you lost.
So nixing the word Massive due to it's uselessness as a word, you are left with MORPG, which technically can be used to describe any of those Aeons of Strife clones. However, what should be most alarmed over, is the amount of money these "Superdata" analyzers make by selling their data at exorbitant prices to paranoid investors.
Well, considering FPS games even in the 90s were playable by up to 30+ people at a time, I think its safe to say massively is considerably more than that.
Well it was actually Massively not massive, so there are some parameters around that. It is an adverb of the adjective multiplayer, so by definition it has to have more than multiplayer, whatever amount that is.
First word is massively. Massively multiplayer means that the multiplayer activity is massive so a large number of players at the same time. Also MMORPGs have a persistent world. That is the defining feature if you look at any definition of an MMORPG, e.g. Wikipedia. Mobas don't have a persistent world.
If we go about nit picking words like that then I can every game an RTS. Real time - yep, all games but turn based games are in real time and all games involve strategy. Does that mean that wow is an RTS?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Only to those who insists of "being correct" .... who is the authority on that?
If everyone is ignoring that said authority ... yellow becomes blue. In fact, in China .. which has MORE people than in the US, yellow is called "wang". (or something like that) ... so there you go .. .all the chinese people must be wrong.
Think of the word "massiveLY" as your appendix .. it is just there with no function and not very relevant. It just hangs there for legacy reasons.
The different languages factor blows this whole China deal out of the water. You'll have to reach for something else I'm afraid.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
nah .. just think that the gaming industry is using a slightly different language, and don't care about the "correct" english definition.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I already understood the reasoning for the camera zoom, I didn't need it laid out for me but thanks anyway. I'm also not saying I'd want to be able to zoom WAY out and see the whole map either, but just a little bit further out would make it more enjoyable for me. That being said, MOBAs are doing extremely well so they obviously don't need to change it. It's just my personal opinion about them. I'd still play them if I could get over the click to move control scheme as I do enjoy competitive games, I just can't get into it.
Well, the Chinese call yellow Huáng, and would never confuse it with blue Lán sè. I'll bet they know the difference between a MMO and a MOBA as well, pretty smart folks over there.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yes they are, which is why they don't confuse MOBA's with MMO's either.
Thing is, if the MOBA's are not claiming to be MMO's in the first place, so the whole argument is entirely redundant, MOBA's are not MMO's.
In the end, it doesn't really matter whether or not some people accept this or not, the world goes on regardless, and there is one thing that is practically certain, if the various MOBA's shut down tomorrow, all those players wouldn't miraculously start playing MMO's and vice versa, as while some MMO players do in fact play both types of games, the vast majority play one or the other, and probably have little more than a passing curiousity for the other type of game.