In my opinion, the problem is the "forced" Dungeons and trials to progress the storyline.
Even with the extra incentives, no one Queues up for the pre-50 Dungeons anymore. Queue times are ridiculous! And then I am a tank even!!
And when Heavensward is released and People are far into the expansion! Good Luck catching up! Not going to happen.
People will be long frustrated and gone and quit again, before they reach Level 50! As nothing is more frustrating that not being able to progress the story, due to endless Queue times for dungeons and trials!
So, having to finish the storyline all the way up to 2.55 is not the problem. It's all the "forced" Dungeons and trials that are tied into it that are the problem, as less and less people queue up for them.
I am currently stuck myself in post Level 50 story line, where I cannot progress further, as no one is queueing up for this specific Dungeon. So there is no way for me to finish up to 2.55 now for the expansion!
Currently I am glad I did not pre-order and will not be buying the expansion! Pointless when I will be unable to play it!
I cannot even progress my weapon quest as no one is queu'ing up anymore for the Chrimea trial. :-/ Have tried several Nights queueing up.... after 2 hours every time I just gave up. I just don't have the time to sit in front of my PC for many hours at a time in hope the Queue pops up. /sigh
Yes Queues can be a pain mainly if you are queueing solo. My Husband and I queue together and almost all of our Trials we had to do for 2.0 - 2.4 so far we had groups of people queue anywhere from 2 to 6 people queueing together from the same FC or server. It makes it much faster to get the content done. Find an FC you like and run with them. If you are on Siren and can run between the hours of 8pm ET and 1030 PM ET weekdays we would run with you. Our FC been running these as well but on PT time for a few friends of our FCM.
If you and your husband are tank and healer! Then Yeah.... I totally believe you. As there are plenty of DPS around.
As tank, I can Queue up for the roulette, like the 50 story roulette and have Instant pop! Never have to wait.
For the post level-50 quests there are dungeons involved that fall out of the roulette. No one is Queuing up for those anymore. Just like the Chrimea trial. No one. Every night when I try... I get two DPS instantly.... but then it's stuck forever on healers or second tank and you see a tank and/or healer constantly dropping out again as it takes too long.
I am in Europe and on Balmung! It's an utter pain to find a nice FC with enough People on during Europe prime hours (CET). Most are from US or Japan and not on when I play.
I can see your pain being from EU. I forget is Balmung a EU server or a NA server?
As for DPS queues most of our FC are queueing as DPS maybe 1 healer going with them. They dont have long wastes.
In my opinion, the problem is the "forced" Dungeons and trials to progress the storyline.
Even with the extra incentives, no one Queues up for the pre-50 Dungeons anymore. Queue times are ridiculous!
And when Heavensward is released and People are far into the expansion! Good Luck catching up! Not going to happen.
People will be long frustrated and gone and quit again, before they reach Level 50! As nothing is more frustrating that not being able to progress the story, due to endless Queue times for dungeons and trials!
So, having to finish the storyline all the way up to 2.55 is not the problem. It's all the "forced" Dungeons and trials that are tied into it that are the problem, as less and less people queue up for them.
I am currently stuck myself in post Level 50 story line, where I cannot progress further, as no one is queueing up for this specific Dungeon.
Hence, I cannot even progress my weapon quest and no one is queu'ing up anymore for the Chrimea trial. :-/ Have tried several Nights queueing up.... after 2 hours every time I just gave up. I just don't have the time to sit in front of my PC for many hours at a time in hope the Queue pops up. /sigh
The problem is we are weeks from Heavensward and alot of people, myself included, are doing other things or playing other games to be fresh and ready for the xpac. Sure some are playing story catch-up, but I can see why there would be a drought on trials like chimera when everyone's focus is on heavensward right now.
The queue times will be normal just as soon as the xpac drops. All the tanks (DK) healers (astro) and dps (machinist) queuing for duty roulette and what have you. All my friends are evenly split between the rush a 50 to 60 camp and the grab a new class and rush that to 60 instead.
Did you even read?? /facepalm I could care less about the weapon quest now. I rather finish up to 2.55 so I can enter the darn expansion content! But I can't!
You would expect that People are prepping for Heavensward right now and that at least the post Level 50 required Dungeons for the storyline up to 2.55 would have normal Queues. Nope!
How is this going to improve when Heavensward releases? When everyone will be busy playing in Heavensward! With new dungeons and trials! New higher gear levels!
Please enlighten me?
Fact is! There is just no way to catch up anymore! Too late! Not unless SE makes the decision to make all the Dungeons and trials "optional", so you can finish all the story quests up to 2.55 SOLO!
the fact that there is a new tank and healer class and that the 2 of them start at lvl 30 makes your logic sound stupid imo
and stop saying bullshit like "Even with the extra incentives, no one Queues up for the pre-50 Dungeons anymore. "
i lvled a scholar from lvl 37 to 50 in a month just doing the low lvl duty once a day and never "NOT EVEN ONCE" in a month i got a queue longer than 2 minutes
There's never been anyone who is a pure gatherer/crafter. You were always required to level a job to 50 in order to be able to access all crafting and gathering. Expansion is no different.
The amount of story content required does not take that long. In 6 weeks of casual play I have managed to finish the 2.0 storyline as a 50 SCH/SMN, 34 WHM, 26 Tham. So all I have left is 2.0-2.55.
There are plenty of people running old content. I have no problem doing low level duty roulettes daily. Shortest queues on SCH/WHM - instantaneous; longest queue on DPS - 30ish min on avg. I have encountered 0 road blocks due to a lack of people while leveling up.
I believe the new jobs aren't available at character creation because you automatically start at level 30 which runs contrary to the argument that they should be available to new players.
Never thought I'd enjoy this title. Always avoided it. Picked it up on a whim. Massively enjoyable.
My husband and I have no issues with any of the leveling instances at all. Most of the time we put our 2 man party up if we dont have other friends of FC members going at that time up in Party Finder and have a full group within 5 minutes. The PROBLEM is today too many people play MMOs SOLO and expect 15 minute or less queues. Sorry FFXIV is not that game. You make your Queue shorter by making friends and queueing as a group OR use PF and make a premade group. There are a lot of people who refuse to use DF for everything and most of mine and my husband's groups have been PF groups or Premade. Though we used DF for less than 10 instances vs the near 50 or over 50 we ran. Yes we love our dungeons and run with friends and FC members. We only Solo (the 2 of us) queued recently for the last 3 trials in 2.1+ Mog king, Lev, and Ramuh and never had to wait more than 15 mins.
You sure are entitled for someone who has a permenant +1 at all times. Most people do play MMOs these days solo, so the solo queue times are unacceptable. We get what you're saying but you really don't need to comment on everyone's post stating they should queue with someone else to shorten times. Not very many of us have that luxury.
That is your problem if you are playing an MMO solo. Go play a single player game if you want to go Solo. Otherwise do not complain. There are hundreds of players going as groups having NO problem with Queues or finding people. Its the SOLO MMO player that is the issue. FFXIV IS NOT SOLO friendly.
There's never been anyone who is a pure gatherer/crafter. You were always required to level a job to 50 in order to be able to access all crafting and gathering. Expansion is no different.
The amount of story content required does not take that long. In 6 weeks of casual play I have managed to finish the 2.0 storyline as a 50 SCH/SMN, 34 WHM, 26 Tham. So all I have left is 2.0-2.55.
There are plenty of people running old content. I have no problem doing low level duty roulettes daily. Shortest queues on SCH/WHM - instantaneous; longest queue on DPS - 30ish min on avg. I have encountered 0 road blocks due to a lack of people while leveling up.
I believe the new jobs aren't available at character creation because you automatically start at level 30 which runs contrary to the argument that they should be available to new players.
Never thought I'd enjoy this title. Always avoided it. Picked it up on a whim. Massively enjoyable.
My husband and I have no issues with any of the leveling instances at all. Most of the time we put our 2 man party up if we dont have other friends of FC members going at that time up in Party Finder and have a full group within 5 minutes. The PROBLEM is today too many people play MMOs SOLO and expect 15 minute or less queues. Sorry FFXIV is not that game. You make your Queue shorter by making friends and queueing as a group OR use PF and make a premade group. There are a lot of people who refuse to use DF for everything and most of mine and my husband's groups have been PF groups or Premade. Though we used DF for less than 10 instances vs the near 50 or over 50 we ran. Yes we love our dungeons and run with friends and FC members. We only Solo (the 2 of us) queued recently for the last 3 trials in 2.1+ Mog king, Lev, and Ramuh and never had to wait more than 15 mins.
You sure are entitled for someone who has a permenant +1 at all times. Most people do play MMOs these days solo, so the solo queue times are unacceptable. We get what you're saying but you really don't need to comment on everyone's post stating they should queue with someone else to shorten times. Not very many of us have that luxury.
You might have wanted to read the post she was quoting as well because I happen to be a solo queuer.
Healer queues for me - Instant; DPS queues - 30 min tops. Haven't played a Tank yet so no comment. I find either of these wait times perfectly acceptable because I can engage in other activities while waiting.
If you happen to be on Famfrit feel free to send me a PM and I will queue with you on my healer and we can have instant pops.
There's never been anyone who is a pure gatherer/crafter. You were always required to level a job to 50 in order to be able to access all crafting and gathering. Expansion is no different.
The amount of story content required does not take that long. In 6 weeks of casual play I have managed to finish the 2.0 storyline as a 50 SCH/SMN, 34 WHM, 26 Tham. So all I have left is 2.0-2.55.
There are plenty of people running old content. I have no problem doing low level duty roulettes daily. Shortest queues on SCH/WHM - instantaneous; longest queue on DPS - 30ish min on avg. I have encountered 0 road blocks due to a lack of people while leveling up.
I believe the new jobs aren't available at character creation because you automatically start at level 30 which runs contrary to the argument that they should be available to new players.
Never thought I'd enjoy this title. Always avoided it. Picked it up on a whim. Massively enjoyable.
My husband and I have no issues with any of the leveling instances at all. Most of the time we put our 2 man party up if we dont have other friends of FC members going at that time up in Party Finder and have a full group within 5 minutes. The PROBLEM is today too many people play MMOs SOLO and expect 15 minute or less queues. Sorry FFXIV is not that game. You make your Queue shorter by making friends and queueing as a group OR use PF and make a premade group. There are a lot of people who refuse to use DF for everything and most of mine and my husband's groups have been PF groups or Premade. Though we used DF for less than 10 instances vs the near 50 or over 50 we ran. Yes we love our dungeons and run with friends and FC members. We only Solo (the 2 of us) queued recently for the last 3 trials in 2.1+ Mog king, Lev, and Ramuh and never had to wait more than 15 mins.
You sure are entitled for someone who has a permenant +1 at all times. Most people do play MMOs these days solo, so the solo queue times are unacceptable. We get what you're saying but you really don't need to comment on everyone's post stating they should queue with someone else to shorten times. Not very many of us have that luxury.
That is your problem if you are playing an MMO solo. Go play a single player game if you want to go Solo. Otherwise do not complain. There are hundreds of players going as groups having NO problem with Queues or finding people. Its the SOLO MMO player that is the issue. FFXIV IS NOT SOLO friendly.
Yep you're totally right. FFXIV should not cater to solo players in the slightest, because they aren't a significant percentage of the population. /facepalm
EDIT: All I am trying to say is just because you don't have a queue time problem, don't short change other people because the struggle is real for the rest of us...
Originally posted by Moondrift O and something EVERYONE who is complaining about the Storyline quest from 2.0 to 2.55 is forgetting. They will give EXP when HW is launched. So you WILL GET EXP and Level off these quest. So its not like you are doing them for nothing and not getting any advancement off them. The only reason they are 0 EXP right now is there is no level 51.
This. I was wondering about that before I stopped playing. When you have 500 level 50 quests, how is that going to work out after a level cap increase? I suppose its intent is for new people though, as everyone else will have already done them.
I counted about 100 quest from 2.1 to 2.55 so its not too bad. I would figure people would get a minimum or 1 level from all these quest. More Likely 2 to 3 levels. So I wouldnt worry too much about the quest line.
The gear from what I can tell if I want to I can spend a few 100K gil and get item Level 90 as well.
So no it's not too steep I just think some people are being overly dramatic about all of this. They are too use to WOW and just get to X level and move on no problem. Well FFXIV is not going to be an exact copy of WOW.
The amount of quests from 2.0 to 2.55 is not the problem! I gladly do them and love doing them! It's all the "forced" Dungeons and trials that are attached to it that are the problem!
It's stopping me right now and I am unable to progress and get ready for the expansion!
Originally posted by MikeB My issue is with the fact the new jobs can only be unlocked through the expansion content instead of being available for play at character creation. If I'm a new player and I finally broke down and bought the game because I wanted to play X job from the expansion, the notion that I need to level up some job I don't care about all the way to Ishgard before I can even play the one I want is what's off-putting for me.
These jobs were always meant to start at level 30. Giving new players access to a free level 30 seems a bit goofy to me.
So start the jobs at level 1? They already did this with Ninja (Rogue). The new jobs should have followed the same format. Forcing me to play through a metric ton of content on a class I don't care about isn't very appealing. I don't agree with people who think the barrier is too steep because they need to complete the story to get to Ishgard. I don't mind doing that. I just want to do it on a class I like.
This will end up being a dealbreaker for a lot of people who are only just now interested in the game at all because the jobs they're adding are the ones that appeal to them. Maybe I waited on playing FFXIV until my favorite class (let's say, Dark Knight) was added. Woot! Now it's here! Oh wait, I can't actually play this until I take some other class through the entire game and then into the expansion? I don't really think this is a defensible position. It's an unforced error that will cost them potentially new customers for really no upshot that I can think of.
Originally posted by Moondrift O and something EVERYONE who is complaining about the Storyline quest from 2.0 to 2.55 is forgetting. They will give EXP when HW is launched. So you WILL GET EXP and Level off these quest. So its not like you are doing them for nothing and not getting any advancement off them. The only reason they are 0 EXP right now is there is no level 51.
This. I was wondering about that before I stopped playing. When you have 500 level 50 quests, how is that going to work out after a level cap increase? I suppose its intent is for new people though, as everyone else will have already done them.
I counted about 100 quest from 2.1 to 2.55 so its not too bad. I would figure people would get a minimum or 1 level from all these quest. More Likely 2 to 3 levels. So I wouldnt worry too much about the quest line.
The gear from what I can tell if I want to I can spend a few 100K gil and get item Level 90 as well.
So no it's not too steep I just think some people are being overly dramatic about all of this. They are too use to WOW and just get to X level and move on no problem. Well FFXIV is not going to be an exact copy of WOW.
The amount of quests from 2.0 to 2.55 is not the problem! I gladly do them and love doing them! It's all the "forced" Dungeons and trials that are attached to it that are the problem!
It's stopping me right now and I am unable to progress and get ready for the expansion!
what? i came back a month ago and i went from 2.1 to 2.5 in 3 days, and the only queue that took more than 10 mins was the fucking ultros fight (to unlock expert roulette)....
and i even had to queue to chimera and hydra because for some fucking reason they didnt appear on the duty roulete
I would actually sub to the game if it didn t force me to do dungeons to advance my story. I don t care to do dungeons at all, especially with the go go go attitude most people have nowadays. Back when MMOs we re harder people actually slowed down and smelled the roses. Now we just get a bunch of people that just rush to the end for whatever drop they re needing. Making me do dungeons with these people drive me nuts. I know they re not hard or a lot of them, but to me it s the fact theres any of them involved in the story that I have to do.
The amount of quests from 2.0 to 2.55 is not the problem! I gladly do them and love doing them! It's all the "forced" Dungeons and trials that are attached to it that are the problem!
It's stopping me right now and I am unable to progress and get ready for the expansion!
what? i came back a month ago and i went from 2.1 to 2.5 in 3 days, and the only queue that took more than 10 mins was the fucking ultros fight (to unlock expert roulette)....
and i even had to queue to chimera and hydra because for some fucking reason they didnt appear on the duty roulete
It highly depends on your time zone! Seeing that the vast majority of FC's are US / Japan.
If you are in those timezones, I guess it's less of an issue it seems.
@MikeB Here's the thing, the Final Fantasy Online games (both 11 and 14) has never just let someone come in and pick any class/job they wanted, and it fits the Final Fantasy style admirably. Kind of like a "paying your dues" experience. As a player who has leveled up every class; combat, crafting and gathering alike, I'd be offended if a person who just started the game was able to taken on any of the new classes without experiencing the game at all. Honestly, this game has so much to it and you should want to experience it all and not just rush through and have the newest and shiny things without feeling you earned it.
No it's not. Final Fantasy jrpgs don't make you do that at all. Final Fantasy games, except for their grindy timesink mmos, have never been about paying your dues to get into the cool kids club. That's just their mmo thing and probably why their mmos are not very popular with the rest of the FF fanbase.
I take it you have not played ANY of the single player Final Fantasy titles with the Jobs system in them. Probably the most popular title would be Final Fantasy Tactics would be the best example. You don't just go and say I want to a Ninja, and bam your a Ninja. You have to first level Archer to 3, Thief to 4 and Geomancer to 2 (which means you would have leveled Squire to 2 to unlock Knight, then that to 2 to unlock Monk, and that to 3 to unlock Geomancer.)
I'm sorry for not specifying the Final Fantasy Job System Style when I stated Final Fantasy Style and opened it up to misinterpretation. However, you come off as very hostile and negative about the online Final Fantasy games, which makes me feel that you have not played the game, or at least have not played the game to level 50 on at least 1 combat class. The whole "grindy timesink" comment is truly one of the most ignorant things I have seen about Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn. I can see it with Final Fantasy 11. I can even especially see it with Final Fantasy XIV 1.0's garbage release, but not ARR at all. Especially with the enhanced dungeon exp and duty roulette bonus exp (when not max level) included in the earlier content patches.
@MikeB Here's the thing, the Final Fantasy Online games (both 11 and 14) has never just let someone come in and pick any class/job they wanted, and it fits the Final Fantasy style admirably. Kind of like a "paying your dues" experience. As a player who has leveled up every class; combat, crafting and gathering alike, I'd be offended if a person who just started the game was able to taken on any of the new classes without experiencing the game at all. Honestly, this game has so much to it and you should want to experience it all and not just rush through and have the newest and shiny things without feeling you earned it.
No it's not. Final Fantasy jrpgs don't make you do that at all. Final Fantasy games, except for their grindy timesink mmos, have never been about paying your dues to get into the cool kids club. That's just their mmo thing and probably why their mmos are not very popular with the rest of the FF fanbase.
I take it you have not played ANY of the single player Final Fantasy titles with the Jobs system in them. Probably the most popular title would be Final Fantasy Tactics would be the best example. You don't just go and say I want to a Ninja, and bam your a Ninja. You have to first level Archer to 3, Thief to 4 and Geomancer to 2 (which means you would have leveled Squire to 2 to unlock Knight, then that to 2 to unlock Monk, and that to 3 to unlock Geomancer.)
But that's not what's going on here. They're just being arbitrarily content gated. This isn't a matter of you need to level A job to B level plus C job to D level. They're standalone jobs without any requirements other than an arbitrary content gate. Unlocking said gate will take a new player a very significant time and effort investment to get through while playing a job they may not necessarily be interested in. Again, precedent was set with Ninja (which is amusing given your choice of example!). They could have and should have done it exactly the same way they did Ninja, with the only difference being you need to own the expansion to play the job at all.
It honestly seems like they designed these jobs with only existing level capped players in mind when it came to the unlock requirements. If I'm already a level 50 Dragoon, I'm generally not going to mind a whole lot that I just need to play the new content to unlock one of the new jobs. It sounds reasonable to me. However, if I'm a player that's new to FFXIV altogether and learning about Heavensward is what got me interested in checking the game out to begin with, I'm going to be pretty bummed out to learn that I need to play through the entire game as a different job entirely before I can even check out any of the expansion exclusive jobs, especially if one of these jobs is the primary reason I became interested in playing in the first place.
However, if I'm a player that's new to FFXIV altogether and learning about Heavensward is what got me interested in checking the game out to begin with, I'm going to be pretty bummed out to learn that I need to play through the entire game as a different job entirely before I can even check out any of the expansion exclusive jobs.
Please refer back to my first response to you in regards to the Entitlement Age. In addition to that all of the Jobs in the game had questing requirements along with their class level requirements. It truly is not at all different, just higher level quests and part of the story line leading up to the zone where those NPCs who TEACH you the jobs are found. I stress the word teach because in the lore sense a player is not magically able to know every job or class, they are taught by the NPCs in the game for the respective jobs and classes, with the exception of the first class you start off with (but you can come up with your own roleplay story as to how you became a novice in that class to start the game.) Final Fantasy is not like the many F2P games out there that do not focus as much on the story. Hell there really isn't any other game that comes close to Square's story rich MMO style. Blizzard did it with WoW quite a bit, but Final Fantasy games, single player and MMOs alike, have always been renown for the story. If you are playing it and not a player who cares about the story, then FFXIV is probably not the game for you.
Originally posted by Divinion
@MikeB Here's the thing, the Final Fantasy Online games (both 11 and 14) has never just let someone come in and pick any class/job they wanted, and it fits the Final Fantasy style admirably. Kind of like a "paying your dues" experience. As a player who has leveled up every class; combat, crafting and gathering alike, I'd be offended if a person who just started the game was able to taken on any of the new classes without experiencing the game at all. Honestly, this game has so much to it and you should want to experience it all and not just rush through and have the newest and shiny things without feeling you earned it.
The problem is that people look at how many games are out there that are Free-to-play (F2P) and it has developed this growing trend among gamers (along with changes in society in "common" behaviors). This is the Entitlement Age and the massive list of F2P games out and in development is truly ruining progress in the development of quality MMORPGs. However, the very small handful of companies that have Subscription based games that refuse to ever go F2P hold the reigns for the best MMORPGs. The quality of these games are far superior, but they will also get a bad review from players who say the subscription fees are too high (because it isn't completely free).
What you have to do is pull yourself away from falling into that "Entitled" and "Gamer ADD" crowd and give the game a true chance and experience it as a new player, not one who feels they should have everything handed to them. I know that can be taken as a rude comment, but the tone behind it is far from it. You'll enjoy the game a lot more if you do what I just said.
As for the quest requirements to get in (after hitting level 50) It will be annoying for players who have been missing out on the content patches, waiting for this expansion. But at the same time, you should be gaining exp beyond level 50 and giving yourself a head start on leveling to 60 on some of your classes/jobs. That and it will prevent players for doing their best to burn through all of the new content within 2-4 weeks and be stuck waiting for 2 months for the next content patch. It does have it's positives.
Players can't make a Rouge right out of character creation though. They still have to level to at least level 10 with a Combat class before being allowed to use the class. They will also have to get a Pugilist class to level 15 before upgrading the job to Ninja (Rouge will need to be 30).
Then they will need to reach level 34 with a Lancer and 42 with a Pugilist to have access to all of the cross class skills that are available to the Ninja. The new jobs also require other classes leveled up to get access to their cross class skills (Gladiator and Marauder for Dark Knight, Conjurer and Thaumaturge for Astologian, and Archer and Lancer for Machinist).
A new player will still need level these other classes to get all that the Job they want to play can offer. This can also help them get used to the play style the Job they are building to has to offer in the game, as the new Jobs are going to be a slight mechanic deviations from how the other jobs work (besides maybe Machinist and Bard, as they both seem rather close to each other currently).
@MikeB Here's the thing, the Final Fantasy Online games (both 11 and 14) has never just let someone come in and pick any class/job they wanted, and it fits the Final Fantasy style admirably. Kind of like a "paying your dues" experience. As a player who has leveled up every class; combat, crafting and gathering alike, I'd be offended if a person who just started the game was able to taken on any of the new classes without experiencing the game at all. Honestly, this game has so much to it and you should want to experience it all and not just rush through and have the newest and shiny things without feeling you earned it.
No it's not. Final Fantasy jrpgs don't make you do that at all. Final Fantasy games, except for their grindy timesink mmos, have never been about paying your dues to get into the cool kids club. That's just their mmo thing and probably why their mmos are not very popular with the rest of the FF fanbase.
I take it you have not played ANY of the single player Final Fantasy titles with the Jobs system in them. Probably the most popular title would be Final Fantasy Tactics would be the best example. You don't just go and say I want to a Ninja, and bam your a Ninja. You have to first level Archer to 3, Thief to 4 and Geomancer to 2 (which means you would have leveled Squire to 2 to unlock Knight, then that to 2 to unlock Monk, and that to 3 to unlock Geomancer.)
But that's not what's going on here. They're just being arbitrarily content gated. This isn't a matter of you need to level A job to B level plus C job to D level. They're standalone jobs without any requirements other than an arbitrary content gate. Unlocking said gate will take a new player a very significant time and effort investment to get through while playing a job they may not necessarily be interested in. Again, precedent was set with Ninja (which is amusing given your choice of example!). They could have and should have done it exactly the same way they did Ninja, with the only difference being you need to own the expansion to play the job at all.
It honestly seems like they designed these jobs with only existing level capped players in mind when it came to the unlock requirements. If I'm already a level 50 Dragoon, I'm generally not going to mind a whole lot that I just need to play the new content to unlock one of the new jobs. It sounds reasonable to me. However, if I'm a player that's new to FFXIV altogether and learning about Heavensward is what got me interested in checking the game out to begin with, I'm going to be pretty bummed out to learn that I need to play through the entire game as a different job entirely before I can even check out any of the expansion exclusive jobs, especially if one of these jobs is the primary reason I became interested in playing in the first place.
Why not see the job unlocks as a reward that needs to be earned. One part of the fun of mmos is earning stuff. A core of the fun of FFXIV is leveling multiple classes.
So... ppl want to play a FF game and skip the main story? for real? lol
If u dont like storylines, watch cinematics, explore dungeons.... why are u playing an RPG at all? just go ahead for a shooter.
Most of the FFXIV players have at least 3- to all jobs fully lv up, and u NEED to lv up other jobs in order to play properly. DK? u will NEED provoke and awareness (gladiator 34).
U will NEED swifcast (26) to play astrologian, and also stoneskin (34 conjurer)
U really want to be a Machinist without raging strikes and invigorate?
New city, new expansion, new jobs. The same way u need to lv up to be DK in WoW or to be Reaper in Tera. U will need to follow the story and unlock the new jobs in FFXIV
Originally posted by MikeB My issue is with the fact the new jobs can only be unlocked through the expansion content instead of being available for play at character creation. If I'm a new player and I finally broke down and bought the game because I wanted to play X job from the expansion, the notion that I need to level up some job I don't care about all the way to Ishgard before I can even play the one I want is what's off-putting for me.
I totally agree! To me, the barriers are too high. I was thinking of buying this game with the expansion a short while ago but I have changed my mind due to these factors. All jobs should be available to play without unlocking them.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
Originally posted by MikeB My issue is with the fact the new jobs can only be unlocked through the expansion content instead of being available for play at character creation. If I'm a new player and I finally broke down and bought the game because I wanted to play X job from the expansion, the notion that I need to level up some job I don't care about all the way to Ishgard before I can even play the one I want is what's off-putting for me.
I totally agree! To me, the barriers are too high. I was thinking of buying this game with the expansion a short while ago but I have changed my mind due to these factors. All jobs should be available to play without unlocking them.
Yep. I will say that for ME it doesn't bother me in the slightest, as I've played plenty of other games that did this. I can see how it is going to cost them big time though.
If Square Enix find that their subs are dropping suddenly, or that the uptake on the new expansion is less that anticipated, I'm sure they'll make some adjustments. However, they probably did it this way because they have a good feel for their player base, and know what will be accepted and what won't.
The story quests in this game are painfully repetitive. I couldn't bring myself to grind out a ridiculous quantity of more fetch and kill quests to get ready for Heavansward so I left. 1-50 was excruciating. I don't mind theme parks normally but this one is on a whole different level. I loved FFXI, which is what attracted me to FFXIV. But I feel like this game is just an arcade game wrapped up and sold as an MMORPG with no sense of adventure and linear zones. Grinding the same dungeons/raids/primals with a bunch of people you have never met before over and over. So much end game content (not really a bad thing but segregates players that are on different stages of end game) to the point that everyone in your free company is on different content. With no difference from one player to the other. Everyone has the same spells, no talent tree, no customization. 80% of population is half naked cat girls most of which are dudes obviously. Only difference between 2 people of the same class is gear and materia (sometimes not even). Yet so many people love it. To each their own I suppose. I obviously don't understand MMO's anymore. I am glad this game is doing well because I like most Square Enix games and they needed a hit. I am just disappointed this is what they came up with. These are my opinions. I'm sure many will disagree.
Expansions are not for new players, they are for the old ones. It's like this in every mmo under the sun, yet somehow FFXIV gets grief for it.
This is true to an extent, but new players shouldn't have to trudge through older content to access it.
By that logic, imagine having to go through all of EQ1's expansions from scratch. That's 15 years of content you would have to do in order to experience their latest expansion.
There needs to be balance of content and a person's time, otherwise the game will suffer in population when all the old vets stop playing, and all the new players stopped playing due to the barriers of old content.
Originally posted by MikeB My issue is with the fact the new jobs can only be unlocked through the expansion content instead of being available for play at character creation. If I'm a new player and I finally broke down and bought the game because I wanted to play X job from the expansion, the notion that I need to level up some job I don't care about all the way to Ishgard before I can even play the one I want is what's off-putting for me.
Its a valid concern to have, not one a share mind you but i can see how this might present an issue. I would be as a new consumer however fool-hardy to buy into an expansion without having played and experienced the core game. I wouldn't say, buy WoW expansions if I had not at that time played the game.
Final Fantasy is very much character and story driven and the roles have to fit in, story wise, this might be ideal for some, but I do understand it, heck I love the idea. As a lover of roleplaying games in general I love that this game focuses on story telling. I have become so numb to WoW, their story is quite weak, built on the bones of their established world, but with so much culture reference in their dialog and quests that its hard to take seriously.
The only other MMO which i felt had a strong story was TSW but, that is not exactly updated often.
Comments
I can see your pain being from EU. I forget is Balmung a EU server or a NA server?
As for DPS queues most of our FC are queueing as DPS maybe 1 healer going with them. They dont have long wastes.
the fact that there is a new tank and healer class and that the 2 of them start at lvl 30 makes your logic sound stupid imo
and stop saying bullshit like "Even with the extra incentives, no one Queues up for the pre-50 Dungeons anymore. "
i lvled a scholar from lvl 37 to 50 in a month just doing the low lvl duty once a day and never "NOT EVEN ONCE" in a month i got a queue longer than 2 minutes
That is your problem if you are playing an MMO solo. Go play a single player game if you want to go Solo. Otherwise do not complain. There are hundreds of players going as groups having NO problem with Queues or finding people. Its the SOLO MMO player that is the issue. FFXIV IS NOT SOLO friendly.
You might have wanted to read the post she was quoting as well because I happen to be a solo queuer.
Healer queues for me - Instant; DPS queues - 30 min tops. Haven't played a Tank yet so no comment. I find either of these wait times perfectly acceptable because I can engage in other activities while waiting.
If you happen to be on Famfrit feel free to send me a PM and I will queue with you on my healer and we can have instant pops.
Steam: Neph
Yep you're totally right. FFXIV should not cater to solo players in the slightest, because they aren't a significant percentage of the population. /facepalm
EDIT: All I am trying to say is just because you don't have a queue time problem, don't short change other people because the struggle is real for the rest of us...
Now, which one of you will adorn me today?
The amount of quests from 2.0 to 2.55 is not the problem! I gladly do them and love doing them! It's all the "forced" Dungeons and trials that are attached to it that are the problem!
It's stopping me right now and I am unable to progress and get ready for the expansion!
So start the jobs at level 1? They already did this with Ninja (Rogue). The new jobs should have followed the same format. Forcing me to play through a metric ton of content on a class I don't care about isn't very appealing. I don't agree with people who think the barrier is too steep because they need to complete the story to get to Ishgard. I don't mind doing that. I just want to do it on a class I like.
This will end up being a dealbreaker for a lot of people who are only just now interested in the game at all because the jobs they're adding are the ones that appeal to them. Maybe I waited on playing FFXIV until my favorite class (let's say, Dark Knight) was added. Woot! Now it's here! Oh wait, I can't actually play this until I take some other class through the entire game and then into the expansion? I don't really think this is a defensible position. It's an unforced error that will cost them potentially new customers for really no upshot that I can think of.
what? i came back a month ago and i went from 2.1 to 2.5 in 3 days, and the only queue that took more than 10 mins was the fucking ultros fight (to unlock expert roulette)....
and i even had to queue to chimera and hydra because for some fucking reason they didnt appear on the duty roulete
I keep it on the rotation BECAUSE it has so much story content.
It's awesome how each time I resub I have a ton more to do.
Enjoy the game buffet, fellas. And stop piling your plates full of mac and cheese.
I'm a MUDder. I play MUDs.
Current: Dragonrealms
It highly depends on your time zone! Seeing that the vast majority of FC's are US / Japan.
If you are in those timezones, I guess it's less of an issue it seems.
I am in CET ( Europe ) time zone.
I take it you have not played ANY of the single player Final Fantasy titles with the Jobs system in them. Probably the most popular title would be Final Fantasy Tactics would be the best example. You don't just go and say I want to a Ninja, and bam your a Ninja. You have to first level Archer to 3, Thief to 4 and Geomancer to 2 (which means you would have leveled Squire to 2 to unlock Knight, then that to 2 to unlock Monk, and that to 3 to unlock Geomancer.)
I'm sorry for not specifying the Final Fantasy Job System Style when I stated Final Fantasy Style and opened it up to misinterpretation. However, you come off as very hostile and negative about the online Final Fantasy games, which makes me feel that you have not played the game, or at least have not played the game to level 50 on at least 1 combat class. The whole "grindy timesink" comment is truly one of the most ignorant things I have seen about Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn. I can see it with Final Fantasy 11. I can even especially see it with Final Fantasy XIV 1.0's garbage release, but not ARR at all. Especially with the enhanced dungeon exp and duty roulette bonus exp (when not max level) included in the earlier content patches.
But that's not what's going on here. They're just being arbitrarily content gated. This isn't a matter of you need to level A job to B level plus C job to D level. They're standalone jobs without any requirements other than an arbitrary content gate. Unlocking said gate will take a new player a very significant time and effort investment to get through while playing a job they may not necessarily be interested in. Again, precedent was set with Ninja (which is amusing given your choice of example!). They could have and should have done it exactly the same way they did Ninja, with the only difference being you need to own the expansion to play the job at all.
It honestly seems like they designed these jobs with only existing level capped players in mind when it came to the unlock requirements. If I'm already a level 50 Dragoon, I'm generally not going to mind a whole lot that I just need to play the new content to unlock one of the new jobs. It sounds reasonable to me. However, if I'm a player that's new to FFXIV altogether and learning about Heavensward is what got me interested in checking the game out to begin with, I'm going to be pretty bummed out to learn that I need to play through the entire game as a different job entirely before I can even check out any of the expansion exclusive jobs, especially if one of these jobs is the primary reason I became interested in playing in the first place.
Please refer back to my first response to you in regards to the Entitlement Age. In addition to that all of the Jobs in the game had questing requirements along with their class level requirements. It truly is not at all different, just higher level quests and part of the story line leading up to the zone where those NPCs who TEACH you the jobs are found. I stress the word teach because in the lore sense a player is not magically able to know every job or class, they are taught by the NPCs in the game for the respective jobs and classes, with the exception of the first class you start off with (but you can come up with your own roleplay story as to how you became a novice in that class to start the game.) Final Fantasy is not like the many F2P games out there that do not focus as much on the story. Hell there really isn't any other game that comes close to Square's story rich MMO style. Blizzard did it with WoW quite a bit, but Final Fantasy games, single player and MMOs alike, have always been renown for the story. If you are playing it and not a player who cares about the story, then FFXIV is probably not the game for you.
Players can't make a Rouge right out of character creation though. They still have to level to at least level 10 with a Combat class before being allowed to use the class. They will also have to get a Pugilist class to level 15 before upgrading the job to Ninja (Rouge will need to be 30).
Then they will need to reach level 34 with a Lancer and 42 with a Pugilist to have access to all of the cross class skills that are available to the Ninja. The new jobs also require other classes leveled up to get access to their cross class skills (Gladiator and Marauder for Dark Knight, Conjurer and Thaumaturge for Astologian, and Archer and Lancer for Machinist).
A new player will still need level these other classes to get all that the Job they want to play can offer. This can also help them get used to the play style the Job they are building to has to offer in the game, as the new Jobs are going to be a slight mechanic deviations from how the other jobs work (besides maybe Machinist and Bard, as they both seem rather close to each other currently).
Why not see the job unlocks as a reward that needs to be earned. One part of the fun of mmos is earning stuff. A core of the fun of FFXIV is leveling multiple classes.
Yes, IMO FFXIV is doing the right thing.
I totally agree! To me, the barriers are too high. I was thinking of buying this game with the expansion a short while ago but I have changed my mind due to these factors. All jobs should be available to play without unlocking them.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
Originally posted by Tokken
Yep. I will say that for ME it doesn't bother me in the slightest, as I've played plenty of other games that did this. I can see how it is going to cost them big time though.
Eh ?
Problem ? What problem ?
If Square Enix find that their subs are dropping suddenly, or that the uptake on the new expansion is less that anticipated, I'm sure they'll make some adjustments. However, they probably did it this way because they have a good feel for their player base, and know what will be accepted and what won't.
FF is FF, and that's that.
This is true to an extent, but new players shouldn't have to trudge through older content to access it.
By that logic, imagine having to go through all of EQ1's expansions from scratch. That's 15 years of content you would have to do in order to experience their latest expansion.
There needs to be balance of content and a person's time, otherwise the game will suffer in population when all the old vets stop playing, and all the new players stopped playing due to the barriers of old content.
Its a valid concern to have, not one a share mind you but i can see how this might present an issue. I would be as a new consumer however fool-hardy to buy into an expansion without having played and experienced the core game. I wouldn't say, buy WoW expansions if I had not at that time played the game.
Final Fantasy is very much character and story driven and the roles have to fit in, story wise, this might be ideal for some, but I do understand it, heck I love the idea. As a lover of roleplaying games in general I love that this game focuses on story telling. I have become so numb to WoW, their story is quite weak, built on the bones of their established world, but with so much culture reference in their dialog and quests that its hard to take seriously.
The only other MMO which i felt had a strong story was TSW but, that is not exactly updated often.