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Greed Monger Cancelled; $100,000+ in Kickstarter Funds Unaccounted For

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  • MightykingMightyking Member UncommonPosts: 235
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by ShortyBible
     

     

    The only difference is that these beggars do it with a webpage instead of a tin cup.

    There are always suckers out there, and KS brings them all to one place. How could scam artists resist?

    Simple... by letting them know that there are consequences to failures.

     

    Greed monger was not just a show of incompetence. Greed monger was pure fraud. From a sugar daddy that was willing to step in and provide more funds, servers that were waiting to be used in a datacenter, T-shirts that were collecting cobwebs in a garage. In the end this has proven to be all lies.

     

    It's my personal believe that if Kickstarter wants to be this investment platform, the pain of failure needs to be divided by all three parties. The developers for failing, the backers for stepping into something they probably shouldn't have, but also kickstarter, who could have looked into the developer before giving him a platform. As it stands now all pain is with the backers. Even Kickstarter earned about $5,000 from this scam. No wonder any idiot is welcome to start a project :)

     

    If the pain gets divided by all three parties then I think Kickstarter can be viable.

  • MyobiMyobi Member UncommonPosts: 62

    Since "business deals" started turning out to be scams.

    As for the Kickstarter “unreliable information”, it’s not Kickstarters, whatever information is posted about a project, was posted by one of its “developers”, Kickstarter can’t just go doing background checks of every person involved in every project in the website, you can do that yourself and draw your own conclusions, it’s your money after all. 

  • NetspookNetspook Member UncommonPosts: 1,583
    Originally posted by Tokken

    Good riddance! What a zoo, but I am sorry for all those who lost money on GM's kickstarter! :-(

     

    Actually, I think this is excellent. Maybe at least some people harve learnt their lesson, and will stop forking out money on all kinds of shady projects.

  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 726

    Well, it's only been three days, and James Proctor is now claiming that he's already/still working on Greed Monger (again):

    I've added you to MMOI's Discussion. I thought I had added everyone from our QA Discussion but I guess I hadn't. So anyways the Original GM IS dead. However since the Original GM was nothing more then a list of features (No Lore elements or Story really other then what Jason had up in his mind) the concept, ideas, and features that made up GM still very much live on and are being implemented at this time. I really am not at liberty to discuss any specifics here but just know MMOI is still very much ticking. We will fill you in about everything in our Skype Discussion. We are also looking to add more team members to our QA Team.

    Can't seem to make his mind up from day to day, and the story continues to change.

    First he didn't have funds for Greed Monger, so he was closing it down.

    Then he was going to make a Zombie Survival Game, but quickly abandoned the idea when people found it was a Unity Store Asset game. Mind you, he purchased the assets with $40 he claimed he didn't have to continue developing Greed Monger or to send the t-shirts to backers.

    Then he claimed he was going to make mobile apps for income.

    Now, suddenly, he has the funds to remake the entire GM IP and continue developing it, while seeking more members for his QA team for testing GM!

    Marvelous.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,054

    When is the Google Hangout?

     

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • JamesPJamesP Member UncommonPosts: 543
    Originally posted by Slapshot1188

    When is the Google Hangout?

     

    There is no Google Hangout...

     

    Pretty plan and simple... GM is dead. We shut it down. Like you guys have told me to do we will be back when we have something to show. Until then it's really been fun and I wish you guys all the best success in whatever you guys do! 

    Company Owner
    MMO Interactive

  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 726
    Originally posted by JamesP
    Originally posted by Slapshot1188

    When is the Google Hangout?

     

    There is no Google Hangout...

     

    Pretty plan and simple... GM is dead. We shut it down. Like you guys have told me to do we will be back when we have something to show. Until then it's really been fun and I wish you guys all the best success in whatever you guys do! 

    Then why did you just claim to be reworking the GM IP and seeking more QA members to test it?

    Guess you already decided that mobile apps are too time consuming to develop?

  • JamesPJamesP Member UncommonPosts: 543
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor
    Originally posted by JamesP
    Originally posted by Slapshot1188

    When is the Google Hangout?

     

    There is no Google Hangout...

     

    Pretty plan and simple... GM is dead. We shut it down. Like you guys have told me to do we will be back when we have something to show. Until then it's really been fun and I wish you guys all the best success in whatever you guys do! 

    Then why did you just claim to be reworking the GM IP and seeking more QA members to test it?

    Guess you already decided that mobile apps are too time consuming to develop?

    I never said we were still working on the GM IP... GM was nothing more then a list of features and ideas with no coherent lore or backstory except for what Jason kept up in his brain. Those Features can very easily be implemented into ANY IP. Since Day 1 of taking over GM and through the whole process of shutting down GM I have made it very clear that our commitment is to the backers and we would be back when the time was right to honor GM's KS Pledges. GM's IP is dead... We shut it down... The Features and Ideas that made GM is still very much alive and will be carried on as part of our commitment to the KS Backers.

     

    And no trust me we are still very much doing at least 1 Mobile Game. 1 of our Programmers has a strong point in Mobile Game Development and we intend on utilizing the strengths of every team member we have.

    Company Owner
    MMO Interactive

  • NilenyaNilenya Member UncommonPosts: 364
    Originally posted by greenreen

    I think he was in on it.

    He overestimates his ability and only purchases things that should work together.

    Whether he realizes that is detrimental or not is still up in the air.

    Firstly I think it has a side of conceit to it. Imagine it like this in his head. God, people are so stupid, they don't even see that you can cut and paste all these things together to make something. But I do, and I will. Then I'll sell it to other people as a package because I saw it first.

    Then when everything mushed together gets laggy he procrastinates completion because that can be a sign of withheld anger. He's angry the easy way didn't work but he's not willing to give up on a method that has repeatedly not done what he thought it would. If he were to attempt to complete it he would reveal his lack of ability but he doesn't want to do that. He wants to maintain the facade so he looks for another package or system that is usable because it wasn't him that was the problem, it was the software. This we've seen repeated in each iteration.

    Not learning from your mistakes is not growth so he's not growing from these experiences.

    He's excusatory about things but exhibits slyness too. Things like paying for more assets for the new game without having sent the t-shirts. Also not releasing info about the new game publicly but privately to "friends" someone said. When your friends start outing you as a scammer, things are getting dire.

    When finally backed into a corner he tucks tail and does whatever he wants, going back toward narcissism even to the point of telling people in the goodbye message how much he learned and thanking them for it. Passive aggressive if you ask me to mention "What I got out of this" on your way out of something. That's not the thought of someone feeling empathy, it's lacking it but requesting confrontation.

    Bottom line is he puts himself above all else. He doesn't work when he feels bad. When he wants to change gears, he feels justified to do so and it doesn't matter what people think who have energy invested in him. See Dark P claiming to make suggestions, then finally making a poll just to ignore the responses. Going back to I know better than you. Zombies are hot and land parcels are out. I'm so forward thinking I'm moving on to what sells.

     

    You make some good observations.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,054
    Originally posted by JamesP
     

    And no trust me we are still very much doing at least 1 Mobile Game. 1 of our Programmers has a strong point in Mobile Game Development and we intend on utilizing the strengths of every team member we have.

    As far as I can tell your "company" consists of yourself and Mr. LumpyMan.  You have no funding.  You cannot even afford to send T-Shirts out.  You cannot possibly think that anyone here will believe when you talk about now suddenly having a team of programmers...

     

    James, you said your goodbyes.  You said you would not be back until you had something to show.   

     

    That lasted for maybe 5 minutes.  Please go.  Do something tangible that demonstrates something beyond a highschool term project.. and THEN come back and show us!

     

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • gorro187gorro187 Member UncommonPosts: 234
    hey guys you back off or he will sick his team of high profile*public defender* lawyers on you! Im willing to bet 100 grand has made it very easy for someone to sit back and relax. But as always karma will show itself in time. I for one will sit back and watch. Anyone else want a bag of pop corn?
  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 726
    Originally posted by JamesP
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor
    Originally posted by JamesP
    Originally posted by Slapshot1188

    When is the Google Hangout?

     

    There is no Google Hangout...

     

    Pretty plan and simple... GM is dead. We shut it down. Like you guys have told me to do we will be back when we have something to show. Until then it's really been fun and I wish you guys all the best success in whatever you guys do! 

    Then why did you just claim to be reworking the GM IP and seeking more QA members to test it?

    Guess you already decided that mobile apps are too time consuming to develop?

    I never said we were still working on the GM IP... GM was nothing more then a list of features and ideas with no coherent lore or backstory except for what Jason kept up in his brain. Those Features can very easily be implemented into ANY IP. Since Day 1 of taking over GM and through the whole process of shutting down GM I have made it very clear that our commitment is to the backers and we would be back when the time was right to honor GM's KS Pledges. GM's IP is dead... We shut it down... The Features and Ideas that made GM is still very much alive and will be carried on as part of our commitment to the KS Backers.

     

    And no trust me we are still very much doing at least 1 Mobile Game. 1 of our Programmers has a strong point in Mobile Game Development and we intend on utilizing the strengths of every team member we have.

    So it's not even you developing the game?

    Surprise.

    Guess it's better that way, though. Maybe this game will have a working score tracker.

  • MyobiMyobi Member UncommonPosts: 62
    Originally posted by JamesP
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor
    Originally posted by JamesP
    Originally posted by Slapshot1188

    When is the Google Hangout?

     

    There is no Google Hangout...

     

    Pretty plan and simple... GM is dead. We shut it down. Like you guys have told me to do we will be back when we have something to show. Until then it's really been fun and I wish you guys all the best success in whatever you guys do! 

    Then why did you just claim to be reworking the GM IP and seeking more QA members to test it?

    Guess you already decided that mobile apps are too time consuming to develop?

    I never said we were still working on the GM IP... GM was nothing more then a list of features and ideas with no coherent lore or backstory except for what Jason kept up in his brain. Those Features can very easily be implemented into ANY IP. Since Day 1 of taking over GM and through the whole process of shutting down GM I have made it very clear that our commitment is to the backers and we would be back when the time was right to honor GM's KS Pledges. GM's IP is dead... We shut it down... The Features and Ideas that made GM is still very much alive and will be carried on as part of our commitment to the KS Backers.

     

    And no trust me we are still very much doing at least 1 Mobile Game. 1 of our Programmers has a strong point in Mobile Game Development and we intend on utilizing the strengths of every team member we have.

     

    Roflmao, holy shit dude o_O;  You keep shooting yourself on the foot.

    “GM was nothing more then a list of features”

    A 100,000$ worth list of features mind you.

    “Those Features can very easily be implemented into ANY IP.”

    Maybe, by people who know what they are doing, with is obviously not the case of any of you.

    “The Features and Ideas that made GM is still very much alive and will be carried on as part of our commitment to the KS Backers.”

    No, they won’t, because you guys are just a bunch of little kids pretending to go to the moon in a spaceship made of card boxes, besides forum posts you won’t get anything else made.

    “And no trust me…”

    Yeah, good luck with that now mate.

    “we are still very much doing at least 1 Mobile Game”

    Of course you are, a MMO, a zombie survival, mobiles games, anything else? How about you finishing that “prototype” of a game that takes less than one hour to program? (space invaders clone)

     

  • BetaguyBetaguy Member UncommonPosts: 2,614
    I don't care about my 20 bucks...

    image

  • MightykingMightyking Member UncommonPosts: 235
    Originally posted by Betaguy
    I don't care about my 20 bucks...

    In that case can I have 20 bucks too.

  • BetaguyBetaguy Member UncommonPosts: 2,614
    Originally posted by Mightyking
    Originally posted by Betaguy
    I don't care about my 20 bucks...

    In that case can I have 20 bucks too.

    You could always head down to your local store and bum change out front, just an idea.

    image

  • MightykingMightyking Member UncommonPosts: 235

    You know I offered $250 to the person who would start a case against Appleton. So far noone has been in contact. Don't you think your bucks are better spend going after him?

    Criminals shouldn't walk away with $100k, you can do something about it. :)

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
    Originally posted by Myobi

    Since "business deals" started turning out to be scams.

    As for the Kickstarter “unreliable information”, it’s not Kickstarters, whatever information is posted about a project, was posted by one of its “developers”, Kickstarter can’t just go doing background checks of every person involved in every project in the website, you can do that yourself and draw your own conclusions, it’s your money after all. 

    you don't think KS management knows that if you let people post anything ... that is just what they will do to scam for money?

    That is why i won't give KS projects a dime.

  • ScyferXScyferX Member UncommonPosts: 41
    This is gonna happen alot more often with everyone using kickstarters.
  • MyobiMyobi Member UncommonPosts: 62
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Myobi

    Since "business deals" started turning out to be scams.

    As for the Kickstarter “unreliable information”, it’s not Kickstarters, whatever information is posted about a project, was posted by one of its “developers”, Kickstarter can’t just go doing background checks of every person involved in every project in the website, you can do that yourself and draw your own conclusions, it’s your money after all. 

    you don't think KS management knows that if you let people post anything ... that is just what they will do to scam for money?

    That is why i won't give KS projects a dime.

    Sorry, but I don’t get your point.

    Of course the people behind the Kickstarter knows that some people will use this to scam others, so what?  It’s not like they can do much about it. Still, what do you suggest for them to do? 

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
    Originally posted by Myobi

    Of course the people behind the Kickstarter knows that some people will use this to scam others, so what?  It’s not like they can do much about it. Still, what do you suggest for them to do? 

     

    Put a contract in place? Change the operations of KS? Don't start something that will enable fraud in the first place?

    A thousand things ... if they want to make their money off fraud ... they better be able to stand the heat.

     

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,054
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Myobi

    Of course the people behind the Kickstarter knows that some people will use this to scam others, so what?  It’s not like they can do much about it. Still, what do you suggest for them to do? 

     

    Put a contract in place? Change the operations of KS? Don't start something that will enable fraud in the first place?

    A thousand things ... if they want to make their money off fraud ... they better be able to stand the heat.

     

    Your ISP has people downloading copyrighted material right now.   They know some people are doing this.  If "they want to make their money off" illegal behavior they better be ready to stand the heat.

     

    This is a silly argument to make.

     

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • MyobiMyobi Member UncommonPosts: 62
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Myobi

    Of course the people behind the Kickstarter knows that some people will use this to scam others, so what?  It’s not like they can do much about it. Still, what do you suggest for them to do? 

     

    Put a contract in place? Change the operations of KS? Don't start something that will enable fraud in the first place?

    A thousand things ... if they want to make their money off fraud ... they better be able to stand the heat.

     

    LOL! "Don't start something that will enable fraud", haha xD Tell that to our maker =P

    Srly now, tell me, how deep is knowledge about the legislation? Have you properly read Kickstarter EULA? I’ll be honest with you, I don’t know jackshit about neither, but if I had to take a guess, I would say that if it was only THAT easy, there wouldn’t be this kind of issues.

    Either way, I don’t really think that’s the problem. Thing is, they can’t really prove that someone is actually lying about their projects, there are multiple reasons for projects to fail even after being fully backed, Kickstarter as clear warnings about the risks that backers take and even suggest you doing your research before backing up ANYTHING.

    This case was pretty obvious, none of the people behind it had real experience in gaming industry, it was a bunch of no ones who never accomplished shit at all and they wanted to develop a MMORPG with is the hardest genre to develop, especially with a 100,000$ budget, eck, I even dare to say you didn’t even needed to research shit at all, you just need a little common sense ~ yet people backed them anyway regardless.

    There is a similar case as Greed Monger, called Trials of ascension, also a bunch of people with ZERO game experience “developing” a MMORPG, when they attempted their first Kickstarter they didn’t even had a single person able to code, yet that didn’t stop them from requesting 800,000$, obviously it didn’t got too far, therefore they made a website “Store”, selling in-game items and services (for a game that didn’t even exist), calling them “donations” with “rewards”, that they supposedly used to hire someone to develop a “technical demo” that they used to attempt another Kickstarter of 600,000$ or so…. I, among another number of people warned their backers about what was most likely going to happen, we were called “trolls” and liars among other shit, many of them ended up regretting it when they started realizing that the “developers” behind it were full of shit and the project isn’t going anywhere.

    TL;DR: “a fool and his money are soon parted”.

     

  • MightykingMightyking Member UncommonPosts: 235
    Originally posted by Myobi

    Sorry, but I don’t get your point.

    Of course the people behind the Kickstarter knows that some people will use this to scam others, so what?  It’s not like they can do much about it. Still, what do you suggest for them to do? 

     

    Why do we need to answer what Kickstarter needs to do to prevent fraud?

    How about a first step is to let them return the 5% they earn on each failed project. I bet you once they actually lose money on failed projects they will put in place a lot of checks.

    I am missing important things on the kickstarter pages as well. An open system where people can thumb up and down the project. Is it enough to only show what money comes in? All these people on these forums that "knew from the start this project was going to fail" shouldn't they have had a voice on the page, as much as the people who become backers. Crowd sourcing isn't that giving a platform for the pessimists as much as the optimists?

    A third requirement should be is monitoring. Why, even today there is not a single message on the Greed monger kickstarter page showing that the project has failed and shutdown? I believe that shows there's zero responsibility done by Kickstarter themselves. If I was Kickstarter I would have added a big flashing text in neon letters 2 months ago that ownership of the greed monger IP had changed.

    Simple points.

  • ClaiesClaies Member UncommonPosts: 76


    Originally posted by Mightyking

    Originally posted by Myobi Sorry, but I don’t get your point. Of course the people behind the Kickstarter knows that some people will use this to scam others, so what?  It’s not like they can do much about it. Still, what do you suggest for them to do?   
    Why do we need to answer what Kickstarter needs to do to prevent fraud? How about a first step is to let them return the 5% they earn on each failed project. I bet you once they actually lose money on failed projects they will put in place a lot of checks. I am missing important things on the kickstarter pages as well. An open system where people can thumb up and down the project. Is it enough to only show what money comes in? All these people on these forums that "knew from the start this project was going to fail" shouldn't they have had a voice on the page, as much as the people who become backers. Crowd sourcing isn't that giving a platform for the pessimists as much as the optimists? A third requirement should be is monitoring. Why, even today there is not a single message on the Greed monger kickstarter page showing that the project has failed and shutdown? I believe that shows there's zero responsibility done by Kickstarter themselves. If I was Kickstarter I would have added a big flashing text in neon letters 2 months ago that ownership of the greed monger IP had changed. Simple points.
    Why should Kickstarter ever get involved in the management of any project?  They aren't in the business of telling people how to operate their business, or how to make software, or even what they can spend money on.  Their only role is taking money from people willing to donate and giving it to the people asking for it (while taking a percentage for the service).  They have no interest in the project's failure or success, and even state that "Kickstarter is not a store.", "Creators are responsible for their projects.", and "Some projects won't go as planned." They hope, of course, that the project will succeed, but the most that they will ever be responsible for is ensuring that serial abusers of the process are blocked from creating any new projects.  If you blindly pledge money to someone you don't know who doesn't have a reputation for producing a complete product, that's not Kickstarter's fault.  Anyone who spent 10 minutes of research on the Greed Monger project should have been able to see a mile away that there was no way they could possibly achieve their ambition.
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