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Greed Monger Cancelled; $100,000+ in Kickstarter Funds Unaccounted For

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  • JamesPJamesP Member UncommonPosts: 541
    Originally posted by Mightyking
    Originally posted by JamesP

    Read my last post... After going over the paypal data with Jason I don't believe there IS any missing money... We didn't go over everything but what we did go over certainly seems to indicate it all went toward GM.

    Sorry for dragging this... but this is very important. What you say here is very different from what you said earlier. You have said you accounted for about $20k worth of salaries, assets, rental of servers. The kickstarter mentions Jason A. received $100k, and as others have pointed out more donations have been via paypal, for the sale of more imaginary plots in a game that's now officially vaporware. I'm not an economist, nor a mathemetician, but what happened to the $80k?

    If it can not be accounted for, it's called fraud.

    Yes like I said up until yesterday Jason had been refusing us access to the data. Yesterday though we did sit down with him and he DID make the data available to us and it does suggest that every penny went toward GM. Jason had some where else to be and so we didn't go over every little detail to account for every single penny but there enough data there that I wasn't aware of to suggest that it did in fact go to where it was supposed to go. We have screenshots of his Paypal records but he has asked us not to release them.

    Company Owner
    MMO Interactive

  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 3,794
    Originally posted by JamesP
    Originally posted by Mightyking
    Originally posted by JamesP
    Originally posted by Mightyking

    Ah nothing like a daily dose of Greedmonger drama, while sipping your first cup of coffee in the morning. Unfortunately this morning I'm reading the first sensible thing coming out of this project and that's closing it down. But... I'm still missing one element. That's for James to contact Kickstarter and show his contract he shouldn't have signed, and ask them for advise. Try to combine a legal force with them. Kickstarter should be interested, and so should James.

    Once the law starts coming after people you can't run. Be smart about it, it will look a lot better in the eyes of the law when you get the ball rolling yourself. And in the eyes of the backers it will be a great service when Appleton will stand trial, and all his scams will end.

    James, now unplug your Internet cord from your PC and let the world be what it is. If you still have dreams, follow them and only come back when you had a LAN party with friends and your system didn't crash, and you're ready to sell something REAL.

    The Contract we signed with Jason prevents us from being part of any lawsuits regarding what;s happened with KS. And trust me MMOI isn't done... We WILL be back when we have something ready for the public to see. Until then I will still be hanging around on these forums like I've been doing since like 2009 I believe it was when I first joined.

     

    Edit: I take that back it was 2006 that I joined MMORPG.com

    Again... no contract can waive criminal actions. Not taking actions makes it the first criminal offence you make. You have to take action, because you see money missing.

    Read my last post... After going over the paypal data with Jason I don't believe there IS any missing money... We didn't go over everything but what we did go over certainly seems to indicate it all went toward GM.

    If I were you I would be getting copies of those documents and sitting down and going through them with a fine toothed comb. Then I would still start planning to reimburse all the backers somehow since you have failed to deliver. There is a precedence of a kickstarter creator being sued by the attorney general for failure to deliver promised goods. Not sure of the outcome of the lawsuit so perhaps it is still ongoing.

    Have you sent the t-shirts out yet? cause that might ease the stress of being sued.

     

  • MightykingMightyking Member UncommonPosts: 235

    Well enlighten us how that $80k was used exactly, because you had an oversight of $80k, while over the last 3 years you been eating peanuts. 

    You know what, maybe don't answer it. Let just the lawyers take care of it, at least one of the original backers must be angry enough to sue the heck out of you and Jason.

  • MukeMuke Member RarePosts: 2,612
    Originally posted by Tokken

    Good riddance! What a zoo, but I am sorry for all those who lost money on GM's kickstarter! :-(

    Don't.

    They could easily afford it and were willing to lose it otherwise they didn't just give their money away to a complete stranger.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • JamesPJamesP Member UncommonPosts: 541
    Originally posted by Kefo
    Originally posted by JamesP
    Originally posted by Mightyking
    Originally posted by JamesP
    Originally posted by Mightyking

    Ah nothing like a daily dose of Greedmonger drama, while sipping your first cup of coffee in the morning. Unfortunately this morning I'm reading the first sensible thing coming out of this project and that's closing it down. But... I'm still missing one element. That's for James to contact Kickstarter and show his contract he shouldn't have signed, and ask them for advise. Try to combine a legal force with them. Kickstarter should be interested, and so should James.

    Once the law starts coming after people you can't run. Be smart about it, it will look a lot better in the eyes of the law when you get the ball rolling yourself. And in the eyes of the backers it will be a great service when Appleton will stand trial, and all his scams will end.

    James, now unplug your Internet cord from your PC and let the world be what it is. If you still have dreams, follow them and only come back when you had a LAN party with friends and your system didn't crash, and you're ready to sell something REAL.

    The Contract we signed with Jason prevents us from being part of any lawsuits regarding what;s happened with KS. And trust me MMOI isn't done... We WILL be back when we have something ready for the public to see. Until then I will still be hanging around on these forums like I've been doing since like 2009 I believe it was when I first joined.

     

    Edit: I take that back it was 2006 that I joined MMORPG.com

    Again... no contract can waive criminal actions. Not taking actions makes it the first criminal offence you make. You have to take action, because you see money missing.

    Read my last post... After going over the paypal data with Jason I don't believe there IS any missing money... We didn't go over everything but what we did go over certainly seems to indicate it all went toward GM.

    If I were you I would be getting copies of those documents and sitting down and going through them with a fine toothed comb. Then I would still start planning to reimburse all the backers somehow since you have failed to deliver. There is a precedence of a kickstarter creator being sued by the attorney general for failure to deliver promised goods. Not sure of the outcome of the lawsuit so perhaps it is still ongoing.

    Have you sent the t-shirts out yet? cause that might ease the stress of being sued.

     

    As many of you know even if people did file a lawsuit against me I have no way of paying it. GM may be gone but we still intend on honoring the KS Backer's pledges in the future when we get the resources to attempt another MMO. With our Funding falling through like it did we had no way of getting GM to launch. We had a plan in place to bring in some funding by working our butts off to create a much smaller game and when those plans were leaked people didn't like that plan very much and started attacking us again. So we attempted to hand GM back over to Jason so with the help of his investors he could get the game done. He refused to take it back. So we were left with no other option then to shut it down, regroup, and attempt it again when we have the resources to do it. This is NOT the end just a break for a little while.

    Company Owner
    MMO Interactive

  • DocBrodyDocBrody Member UncommonPosts: 1,926
    . I've learned a number of things about working in the Game Development Industry that I wouldn't have learned else where.

    hahaha... no. That was not the Game Development Industry. That was an amateur garage project, imagining to be affiliated with the Game Industry.

  • DocBrodyDocBrody Member UncommonPosts: 1,926
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    I'm principally opposed to any Kickstarter projects. Backers are not given any protection from Kickstarter and Kickstarter never goes after the projects who scam people.

    The best advice I can give people is to do a chargeback.

    Asking KICKSTARTER for protection is just plain stupid, sorry.

    All they offer is a platform, a backend. The PROJECT CREATOR is the one solely responsible, not the platform provider.

    Stop barking at the wrong tree, it´s not Kickstarters fault if something goes wrong with 1 out of 1000 projects.

  • KabaalKabaal Member UncommonPosts: 3,042
    Originally posted by JamesP or is it A or even PA!

     

    As many of you know even if people did file a lawsuit against me I have no way of paying it. GM may be gone but we still intend on honoring the KS Backer's pledges in the future when we get the resources to attempt another MMO. With our Funding falling through like it did we had no way of getting GM to launch. We had a plan in place to bring in some funding by working our butts off to create a much smaller game and when those plans were leaked people didn't like that plan very much and started attacking us again. So we attempted to hand GM back over to Jason so with the help of his investors he could get the game done. He refused to take it back. So we were left with no other option then to shut it down, regroup, and attempt it again when we have the resources to do it. This is NOT the end just a break for a little while.

    It doesn't work like that, you can't just say oh i have no money so i can't be sued.

  • JamesPJamesP Member UncommonPosts: 541
    Originally posted by Kabaal
    Originally posted by JamesP or is it A or even PA!

     

    As many of you know even if people did file a lawsuit against me I have no way of paying it. GM may be gone but we still intend on honoring the KS Backer's pledges in the future when we get the resources to attempt another MMO. With our Funding falling through like it did we had no way of getting GM to launch. We had a plan in place to bring in some funding by working our butts off to create a much smaller game and when those plans were leaked people didn't like that plan very much and started attacking us again. So we attempted to hand GM back over to Jason so with the help of his investors he could get the game done. He refused to take it back. So we were left with no other option then to shut it down, regroup, and attempt it again when we have the resources to do it. This is NOT the end just a break for a little while.

    It doesn't work like that, you can't just say oh i have no money so i can't be sued.

    Sued for what though? We made an effort to make the game... In the end we failed... Games by AAA Companies fail every day. You really expect us not to fail? We will make every effort to get back in to a position where we can attempt another MMO and when the time comes we will honor every single promise and pledge during our KS Campaign. We just do NOT have the funding to see this through to launch at this time.

    Company Owner
    MMO Interactive

  • MightykingMightyking Member UncommonPosts: 235
    Originally posted by Kefo

    If I were you I would be getting copies of those documents and sitting down and going through them with a fine toothed comb. Then I would still start planning to reimburse all the backers somehow since you have failed to deliver. There is a precedence of a kickstarter creator being sued by the attorney general for failure to deliver promised goods. Not sure of the outcome of the lawsuit so perhaps it is still ongoing.

    Have you sent the t-shirts out yet? cause that might ease the stress of being sued.

     

    You probably mean this http://gamerant.com/kickstarter-class-action-lawsuit/ one. The lawsuit has been filed a year ago, and there has not been a verdict yet, as far as I could find.

  • craftseekercraftseeker Member RarePosts: 1,740
    Originally posted by Mightyking
    Originally posted by Kefo

    If I were you I would be getting copies of those documents and sitting down and going through them with a fine toothed comb. Then I would still start planning to reimburse all the backers somehow since you have failed to deliver. There is a precedence of a kickstarter creator being sued by the attorney general for failure to deliver promised goods. Not sure of the outcome of the lawsuit so perhaps it is still ongoing.

    Have you sent the t-shirts out yet? cause that might ease the stress of being sued.

    You probably mean this http://gamerant.com/kickstarter-class-action-lawsuit/ one. The lawsuit has been filed a year ago, and there has not been a verdict yet, as far as I could find.

    Actually a better source is:http://www.atg.wa.gov/news/news-releases/attorney-general-files-lawsuit-against-company-behind-asylum-playing-cards  and the original filed complaint can be found at: http://agportal-s3bucket.s3.amazonaws.com/uploadedfiles/AsylumComplaint 2014-05-01.pdf

    I suspect that since the action is between the State of Washington and a Tennessee LLC that there may be a problem with the jurisdiction (the complaint was filed in King County Washington.

    My guess is that since the Attorney General has got his bit of press coverage on this one it has quietly faded away.

    Even if it is still on going and they get a favourable decision it is likely that it was a $5 company with no assets to seize.

  • ClaiesClaies Member UncommonPosts: 76
    It's amazing how people confuse giving someone money and hoping they do something with said money and buying stock in a for profit corporation.  Kickstarter is nothing more than a group of smart people sitting on the side of the road with signs saying "I'm broke and lazy, but if enough of you people give me money, I might take this idea I have and make a real product."  You have no way of knowing if that guy you gave money to is going to buy a computer, software assets, or a bottle of wine.   And can do even less about it if he does fall asleep outside the steps of the liquor store.
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,176
    ignore this.
  • DocBrodyDocBrody Member UncommonPosts: 1,926

    blaming Kickstarter is nonsense.

    thinking about a lawsuit is nonsense too.

     

    People give money to an idea, it failed, money has been spent, it´s gone. After several years of crowdfunding being ´a thing´people still think they pledge for a pre-order product. Wrong. You donate money to a team to work on something.

    in 99 out of 100 cases backers are lucky and get something back for their donation.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,710
    Originally posted by Mavolence
    Originally posted by MrSnuffles

    Jason Appleton is the real crook here. He is a smart scam artist that tried many schemes to make a quick buck. Right now he poses as an SEO expert on his http://upstager.com/ website. It's a complete scam, some pages with his references/clients still have the Lorem Ipsum placeholder text from the Template he bought to make this website. 

    He also claims to be an SEO expert:

    "Having been doing online marketing, web design, SEO and PPC management for many years for multiple industries, I knew I wanted to help small businesses without $20,000 budgets be able to compete with the industry players. Upstager's focus is doing exactly that."

    http://upstager.com/partner-view/school-of-art/

     

     

    O.o

     

    Holy shit. Deplorable

    Wow last I heard he was staring in a Swingers TV show where he and his wife would have sex with other people.  I am NOT making that up.  Now in addition to the above he is marketing a "SwingEasy Lifestyle App": http://www.digitaljournal.com/pr/2545416

     

     

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,710
    Originally posted by JamesP

    Also I know this prob. won't matter much because at this point you guys don't care all that much about what I say. However I really don't think Jason was ever a Scammer and I know GM wasn't a Scam. We mismanged the project. We both made mistakes that hopefully we both will learn from. Until yesterday Jason had been refusing to give us ANY records concerning where the KS Money went to. However yesterday Joel and I sat down with him and went over some of the data. We didn't take the time to go over everything but what we did go over would seem to indicate enough that the entire $100,000 or however GM made in total did in fact go toward the development of GM.

    At the time I wasn't part of the discussions concerning how much each person would get and so I never had that information. Jason was paying people I didn't even know about and there were other expenses I wasn't aware of. 

    In the end as Team Lead I should have managed the team better. I should have insisted on conducting Team Meetings every week and I SHOULD have made sure everything was much more organized... Lesson learned! I need to learn to be more assertive when I know I'm right about something and stand my ground. In the end I believe this will be a great learning experience for all involved.

    I read this as: Jason told you he would do bad things to you/Joel if you didn't start to publicly cover for him.  

     

    I have no way of knowing if this is true of course, but that is my strong suspicion. I mean, if people were paid for things you didn't even know about and YOU were the lead developer... how do you know they had anything to do with GM?  Where were the results of all those payments?  Since you claim that all assets were given to you.  Where are they?

     

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Claies
    It's amazing how people confuse giving someone money and hoping they do something with said money and buying stock in a for profit corporation.  Kickstarter is nothing more than a group of smart people sitting on the side of the road with signs saying "I'm broke and lazy, but if enough of you people give me money, I might take this idea I have and make a real product."  You have of way of knowing if that guy you gave money to is going to buy a computer, software assets, or a bottle of wine.   And can do even less about it if he does fall asleep outside the steps of the liquor store.

    Speaking of which, I haven't checked on SWG 2.0,  I mean Divergence,  in a while...

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,106

    If i was in their shoes i would have done the same thing.

    I do also understand how word of mouth about making a smaller lesser game would create flack so again if i was in their shoes i would do the same thing.I guess the only part i am not in agreement with is HOW they worded or leaked out the change.

    I have said this before many times,a QUALITY game does not need to be big,i actually endorse a smaller QUALITY game over a big pile of junk.IMO all Indie developers should aim for a small start,i am talking assets and maps the rest is just code and database,that part can still allow a game with depth.Even though say an idea like crafting is mostly a database you can still add in the assets for that slowly by adding in new crafts every week.

    The main thing is to get the core design right,something i have stated that FFXIV got wrong and why no matter how much they try therein after the core design will always remain bad.You need  solid class"sub-class"/race"racial stats/abilities"/combat/mob/crafting systems just to get a game going in the right direction.Then you need to create a market/economy and begin to think about peripheral gaming,meaning something other than just killing.Start small ,maybe not 15 maps but maybe only 3-4 and add a new one every month.As long as a game keeps progressing at a decent pace,players will remain happy.

    Obviously if you just randomly tell people your game will be lesser and not as good,the flack will come in and yes then you might as well "give up".

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,285

    I've supported a couple of kickstarter projects without issue.  However, they were board games, which is a much easier proposition.  A programming project would be much more difficult to accomplish.  How many 'normally' funded projects take longer and cost more than was projected.  I know the answer is a few, because there are plenty of threads on here that call just about every company that has made or is making an MMO frauds, and swindlers, and incompetents, etc.

    I have no ideas about these guys so they could be the worst of the worst of crooks.  It's also possible that they made many of the mistakes of the regular developers.  Too ambitious, naive (In what it takes to do something this complicated, on this scale), poor managers, overestimated abilities, etc.  Avid followers of this debacle would know better, but I'm naive in that I don't think everyone in the MMO industry is trying to steal from the community.

    Enjoying the thread.  I agree with an earlier poster.  This could be a sitcom. 

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by mgilbrtsn

     It's also possible that they made many of the mistakes of the regular developers.  Too ambitious, naive (In what it takes to do something this complicated, on this scale), poor managers, overestimated abilities, etc. 

    The two biggest commonalities among aspiring 'indie' MMO developers are the ubiquitousness of the Dunning-Kruger Effect and the adamant denial of its presence. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 726

    JamesP, I find it odd how just weeks ago you swore up and down you couldn't find where any of the money went and Jason refused to show you. However, now it's clear as day where every penny went. Why not share with us where the money went since you know now? How many more software licenses did you acquire from the transition of ownership? How many more assets? How many team members were on payroll during the development of Greed Monger?

    The mountain of lies you've told over the past three years doesn't even come close to the one you're telling right now.

    The theory of holes applies here, JamesP. When you find yourself in one, it's time to stop digging.

  • damond5031damond5031 Member UncommonPosts: 444
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by mgilbrtsn

     It's also possible that they made many of the mistakes of the regular developers.  Too ambitious, naive (In what it takes to do something this complicated, on this scale), poor managers, overestimated abilities, etc. 

    The two biggest commonalities among aspiring 'indie' MMO developers are the ubiquitousness of the Dunning-Kruger Effect and the adamant denial of its presence. 

    I had never heard of the Dunning-Kruger Efffect, I have learned something to day. Thank you!

  • mayito7777mayito7777 Member UncommonPosts: 768
    AND that folks is what  this sucker (who got taken once by a game that rimes with fall) is not kickstarting anything, there is another game now (no interested in shaming the developer) where the developer is doing the same thing.

    want 7 free days of playing? Try this

    http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY

  • SeelinnikoiSeelinnikoi Member RarePosts: 1,269
    Originally posted by damond5031
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by mgilbrtsn

     It's also possible that they made many of the mistakes of the regular developers.  Too ambitious, naive (In what it takes to do something this complicated, on this scale), poor managers, overestimated abilities, etc. 

    The two biggest commonalities among aspiring 'indie' MMO developers are the ubiquitousness of the Dunning-Kruger Effect and the adamant denial of its presence. 

    I had never heard of the Dunning-Kruger Efffect, I have learned something to day. Thank you!

    We both learned. And we can now ascertain that JamesP has exactly that!

    If you are a Star Wars fan, why not try the Star Wars The Old Republic?
    New players can get a welcome package and old/returning players can also get a welcome back package and 7 days free subscription time! Just click here to use my referral invitation
  • mayito7777mayito7777 Member UncommonPosts: 768
    Originally posted by JamesP
    Originally posted by Kefo
    Originally posted by JamesP
    Originally posted by Mightyking
    Originally posted by JamesP
    Originally posted by Mightyking

    Ah nothing like a daily dose of Greedmonger drama, while sipping your first cup of coffee in the morning. Unfortunately this morning I'm reading the first sensible thing coming out of this project and that's closing it down. But... I'm still missing one element. That's for James to contact Kickstarter and show his contract he shouldn't have signed, and ask them for advise. Try to combine a legal force with them. Kickstarter should be interested, and so should James.

    Once the law starts coming after people you can't run. Be smart about it, it will look a lot better in the eyes of the law when you get the ball rolling yourself. And in the eyes of the backers it will be a great service when Appleton will stand trial, and all his scams will end.

    James, now unplug your Internet cord from your PC and let the world be what it is. If you still have dreams, follow them and only come back when you had a LAN party with friends and your system didn't crash, and you're ready to sell something REAL.

    The Contract we signed with Jason prevents us from being part of any lawsuits regarding what;s happened with KS. And trust me MMOI isn't done... We WILL be back when we have something ready for the public to see. Until then I will still be hanging around on these forums like I've been doing since like 2009 I believe it was when I first joined.

     

    Edit: I take that back it was 2006 that I joined MMORPG.com

    Again... no contract can waive criminal actions. Not taking actions makes it the first criminal offence you make. You have to take action, because you see money missing.

    Read my last post... After going over the paypal data with Jason I don't believe there IS any missing money... We didn't go over everything but what we did go over certainly seems to indicate it all went toward GM.

    If I were you I would be getting copies of those documents and sitting down and going through them with a fine toothed comb. Then I would still start planning to reimburse all the backers somehow since you have failed to deliver. There is a precedence of a kickstarter creator being sued by the attorney general for failure to deliver promised goods. Not sure of the outcome of the lawsuit so perhaps it is still ongoing.

    Have you sent the t-shirts out yet? cause that might ease the stress of being sued.

     

    As many of you know even if people did file a lawsuit against me I have no way of paying it. GM may be gone but we still intend on honoring the KS Backer's pledges in the future when we get the resources to attempt another MMO. With our Funding falling through like it did we had no way of getting GM to launch. We had a plan in place to bring in some funding by working our butts off to create a much smaller game and when those plans were leaked people didn't like that plan very much and started attacking us again. So we attempted to hand GM back over to Jason so with the help of his investors he could get the game done. He refused to take it back. So we were left with no other option then to shut it down, regroup, and attempt it again when we have the resources to do it. This is NOT the end just a break for a little while.

    I hope in the future NO ONE and I mean NO ONE falls for your scam.

    want 7 free days of playing? Try this

    http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY

This discussion has been closed.