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Greed Monger Cancelled; $100,000+ in Kickstarter Funds Unaccounted For

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  • RidrithRidrith Member RarePosts: 527
    Originally posted by greenreen

    I think he was in on it.

    He overestimates his ability and only purchases things that should work together.

    Whether he realizes that is detrimental or not is still up in the air.

    Firstly I think it has a side of conceit to it. Imagine it like this in his head. God, people are so stupid, they don't even see that you can cut and paste all these things together to make something. But I do, and I will. Then I'll sell it to other people as a package because I saw it first.

    Then when everything mushed together gets laggy he procrastinates completion because that can be a sign of withheld anger. He's angry the easy way didn't work but he's not willing to give up on a method that has repeatedly not done what he thought it would. If he were to attempt to complete it he would reveal his lack of ability but he doesn't want to do that. He wants to maintain the facade so he looks for another package or system that is usable because it wasn't him that was the problem, it was the software. This we've seen repeated in each iteration.

    Not learning from your mistakes is not growth so he's not growing from these experiences.

    He's excusatory about things but exhibits slyness too. Things like paying for more assets for the new game without having sent the t-shirts. Also not releasing info about the new game publicly but privately to "friends" someone said. When your friends start outing you as a scammer, things are getting dire.

    When finally backed into a corner he tucks tail and does whatever he wants, going back toward narcissism even to the point of telling people in the goodbye message how much he learned and thanking them for it. Passive aggressive if you ask me to mention "What I got out of this" on your way out of something. That's not the thought of someone feeling empathy, it's lacking it but requesting confrontation.

    Bottom line is he puts himself above all else. He doesn't work when he feels bad. When he wants to change gears, he feels justified to do so and it doesn't matter what people think who have energy invested in him. See Dark P claiming to make suggestions, then finally making a poll just to ignore the responses. Going back to I know better than you. Zombies are hot and land parcels are out. I'm so forward thinking I'm moving on to what sells.

    Oh, and I don't think he's reporting any of this work to the govt. Another sign he's shady. If he's willing to take from all of us (because we pay taxes) then he's a bad guy too. I'm actually shocked this is on the internet and no one has reported him to the govt. this long. With all the doxxing and internet justice that swarms around he just hasn't ticked off the wrong channels I guess. Plus his company isn't even legit. You have to register a company to get a tax id to be able to make a bank account and he won't even fork up the filing fee for his state. He just made up a name and said - this is a real company without any legal action of it. It's not a real company unless you fill out the forms and file it. He won't be making a profit and loss statement at tax time.

    I don't know why you all care at all about Appleton - he was a serial entrepreneur but at least he's aware of what he couldn't do like code this game. It wasn't him saying he could do it. Not the first time or the fifth time. He got money, so what, the other guy got money too and he got to call himself a leader of a one man team. And it pleases him so much he wants to keep doing it.

    What do I know, I've only seen the guy post online but that's what I get out of it.

     

     

    If there was ever a time to say it now would be the time.  "BOOM. HEADSHOT."  You nailed it.  I don't think James should be getting a freebie or a pass on this project.  I think he came into this as an inexperienced developer who overvalues and overestimates his own abilities.  I don't think he could actually deliver a finished project even if he wanted to and had the funding. I say that mostly because of everything you stated in your post, I literally couldn't have typed it out better myself.  I've been watching this whole drama-scene unfold since mid-2014 and briefly skimmed rumors and other posts related to Greed Monger as far back as 2013.  I knew I'd eventually be reading a post such as this one and I'm just surprised it's taken this long to finally happen.

    I watched the video where James and his 'business associate' posted up a google hangouts video and it was painful to watch, truly painful. These guys are playing game developer, acting like they've got a legitimate 'brand or IP' in their hands when in reality they have nothing.  They're delusional.  His buddy Joel actually got so upset at one point during video that he called out to the backers that none of them had any legal recourse that they could take against them even if they wanted to.  Those two are extremely unprofessional and I doubt they'll ever make a game worth mentioning.  I think James is a hobbyist at best, probably has the most rudimentary knowledge when it comes to working in unity to create something that LOOKS like a game, but will never go beyond the 'testing' phase.  If he's worked on any commercial projects I've never heard of them and I've never heard of him.  He's playing developer.  That's like me claiming to be a web designer who only knows how to use wordpress.  I might be able to pass myself off as one if I'm dealing with small businesses or personal projects, but what happens when a corporation or some large enitity approaches me and starts asking for databases, real hosting solutions and...  Gasp, a non-templated website?  You know what you do?  You admit defeat and let them know that you simply don't have the ability to complete the desired project and you move on like an adult.  You don't sit there and waste three years of development while people who paid in thousands of dollars watch as it all crumbles away.


    The Iron Circle Guild - | PC Gaming | Tabletop Gaming | Good Company!
  • malkovichmalkovich Member UncommonPosts: 18

    appleton is a thief.

     

    proctor is just incompetent.

     

    imo

  • TanemundTanemund Member UncommonPosts: 148

    I think we've actually sunk about as low as we can go here.  I thought Cryptic selling Closed Beta spots in Star Trek Online for buying a lifetime subscription to Champions Online and then trying to renege on the deal was the ultimate low blow to the gaming public.  However here you have game developers using the discontent of MMO gamers with the state of MMO games to get the MMO gamers to literally GIVE them money in exchange for a promise to develop a game the gamers will like.

     

    I don't know which is worse.  That game developers were cynical enough to sink to this level or that the gaming public was so desperate for games they would enjoy that it could be buffaloed into throwing money into a deep dark hole in the hopes that something would grow out of the hole.

     

    Kickstarter works on the "how much will you bet on this?" theory.  Basically they ask for donors to contribute an amount they feel comfortable giving away.  Most donors will stick with the minimum amount since they feel comfortable risking $20 to $100 dollars on a promise.  While there may be legal recourse (maybe) the vast majority of donors will say, "Oh, well it was just $20.00" and cut their losses.  By the time a class action suit gets fired up to recover the $100,000.00 there won't be enough left over to pay the lawyers at the end of the case.  What really needs to happen is some of the State's Attorney Generals' offices launch an investigation and prosecute a few people for fraud, but that won't happen either.  They're too busy pursuing money from the tobacco companies and fast food joints.

     

    In the end what will happen is future Kickstarter campaigns will be haunted by this rip off and people who truly intend to do what they say won't be able to get public funding this way.  The only defense the consumer has is to refuse to participate in any future projects.  Ultimately Kickstarter type funding sights were doomed because of things like this because 1) they made their money up front so it doesn't matter to them whether the projects go off or not 2) they immediately hold up their hands and say, "Hey we didn't do anything but provide a conduit for willing donors to meet willing project developers" and 3) there is no legal recourse against Kickstarter or between Kickstarter and people who post projects there.  That language that has been quoted is in a contract between Kickstarter and Greed Monger.  I'm pretty sure it doesn't confer any rights on anyone that isn't a signatory to the contract.  In other words the donors probably can't use that contract to sue Greed Monger.  More is the pity.

     

    The sad part is someone out there will cook up a way to burn the gaming public even worse than this.

     

    I guess it goes back to the old adage, never loan more money than you're comfortable just giving away.

    Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    I'm principally opposed to any Kickstarter projects. Backers are not given any protection from Kickstarter and Kickstarter never goes after the projects who scam people.

    The best advice I can give people is to do a chargeback.

     

    hehe .. i am in principle opposed to any KS project using MY OWN MONEY. Other people's money ... well .. it is their right to risk it on wishful thinking.

    If they are scammed, they can claim that they don't know better.

     

  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 726

    I'm not willing to say most Kickstarters are a scam, however, people should really be more aware of the risks involved in donating thousands of dollars to nothing more than ideas, promises, and hype. I'd go so far as to say I think that Kickstarter is a good thing, overall. Even in this instance, it was only $150,000~ (don't forget, they were taking paypal donations for quite some time), which isn't a lot in terms of running a company, but it is a lot to people who donated $3,500+.

    What happens when it's $1,000,000?

    I do think that James Proctor at least knew it was a scam the entire time. The entire original development team bailed within weeks of their successful funding, and I'm sure they knew it, too. James Proctor even claimed to have been warned that it was a scam (IIRC), but still choose to continue on, even after being warned. I believe that makes him a willing accomplice, if nothing else.

    Even one week after funding, James questioned the probability of the team succeeding:

    [12/5/2012 11:05:49 PM] James Proctor: To get it done in a reasonable time it's going to take a team twice this size... Takes AAA companies with hundreds of people 4+ years just to release a MMO...
    [12/5/2012 11:06:08 PM] Jason Appleton: No it wont. I've done my research man
    [12/5/2012 11:06:27 PM] Jason Appleton: Early on I didnt know for sure. But I've been reading on gamasutra and other resources

    For anyone interested, James Proctor has "10 years" experience as a "programmer", and his portfolio currently has no finished projects with his name on them. However, this is the laundry list of games and projects he's been part of and abandoned:

    • Survival City MMO
    • Farm Land MMO
    • Space Sim
    • Greed Monger MMO
    • Custom Terrain Engine
    • MMO Framework
    • Social Arena
    • City Life MMO
    • Failed Voxel Framework
    • Rise of Hero MMO
    • Zombie Survival Game
  • ConfonduConfondu Member UncommonPosts: 12
    With the name GREED MONGER, why are any of you surprised?
  • Beatnik59Beatnik59 Member UncommonPosts: 2,408

    I'm actually surprised that it took this long (ten years or so) for a scam to actually coalesce in this genre.

     

    But as far as scams go, this one was weaksause compared to Age of Mourning or Dark & Light.  It seems that even the scams have gotten worse, like everything else, post-WoW.

    __________________________
    "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
    --Arcken

    "...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
    --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

    "It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
    --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 726
    Originally posted by Beatnik59

    I'm actually surprised that it took this long (ten years or so) for a scam to actually coalesce in this genre.

     

    But as far as scams go, this one was weaksause compared to Age of Mourning or Dark & Light.  It seems that even the scams have gotten worse, like everything else, post-WoW.

    I had almost completely forgotten about those. Thanks for reminding me!

    While not as stronk as D&L and AoM, it's far more comical, at the very lest.

    The next 2-3 years will be very telling of how successful Kickstarter MMOs can be, I believe. In the meantime, stories like this should encourage curious backers to do more research on the projects they have interest in backing.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor

    The next 2-3 years will be very telling of how successful Kickstarter MMOs can be, I believe. In the meantime, stories like this should encourage curious backers to do more research on the projects they have interest in backing.

    Why bother with research? Just back nothing. It is not like there is a lack of good entertainment, and we need to pay for wishful thinking.

     

  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 726
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor

    The next 2-3 years will be very telling of how successful Kickstarter MMOs can be, I believe. In the meantime, stories like this should encourage curious backers to do more research on the projects they have interest in backing.

    Why bother with research? Just back nothing. It is not like there is a lack of good entertainment, and we need to pay for wishful thinking.

     

    I'm not really looking to debate the reasons people have for backing projects through outlets such as Kickstarter. It's a trend that seems likes it's here to stay; however, if it does, people need to know that there are risks involved, and that people have been scammed though the system based on good-will and promises.

  • psiicpsiic Member RarePosts: 1,600

    Personally hoping to see a lawsuit take shape, would be nice to basically have a legal precedent established regarding crowd funded video games.

     

    Also be nice if the IRS was informed so they could go after them on tax fraud or rico charges.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Charlie.Cheswick

    So the only remaining question is who is the real Greed Monger?

    Appleton? 

    Proctor? 

    Or the KS backers who so greedily desired a game that they blindly threw hope laced legal tender at it,  praying it would fill the void in their gaming guts?

    Very good question. :)

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,516

    I think this will serve as a lesson to those who back kickstarters that claim they will make a game for less than its possible to do so.  The most basic mmorpg using stock assets cannot be made for 100k after the cost of licenses, even if you are paying your artists, coders and designers minimum wage.  Even a side scrolling game like castlevania that recently funded asked for a minimum of 500k (they were at 2.6M last time I checked).

    If they were honest, they'd have said straightway that the money was for a demo to attract VC down the line.  At least then you can know that its a gamble and you have to decide whether they are competent enough to pull it off, and whether their business plan is viable... but a game on 100k?  Thats just crazy.


  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117

    Jason Appleton is the real crook here. He is a smart scam artist that tried many schemes to make a quick buck. Right now he poses as an SEO expert on his http://upstager.com/ website. It's a complete scam, some pages with his references/clients still have the Lorem Ipsum placeholder text from the Template he bought to make this website. 

    He also claims to be an SEO expert:

    "Having been doing online marketing, web design, SEO and PPC management for many years for multiple industries, I knew I wanted to help small businesses without $20,000 budgets be able to compete with the industry players. Upstager's focus is doing exactly that."

    http://upstager.com/partner-view/school-of-art/

     

     

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    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
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  • MightykingMightyking Member UncommonPosts: 235

    Ah nothing like a daily dose of Greedmonger drama, while sipping your first cup of coffee in the morning. Unfortunately this morning I'm reading the first sensible thing coming out of this project and that's closing it down. But... I'm still missing one element. That's for James to contact Kickstarter and show his contract he shouldn't have signed, and ask them for advise. Try to combine a legal force with them. Kickstarter should be interested, and so should James.

    Once the law starts coming after people you can't run. Be smart about it, it will look a lot better in the eyes of the law when you get the ball rolling yourself. And in the eyes of the backers it will be a great service when Appleton will stand trial, and all his scams will end.

    James, now unplug your Internet cord from your PC and let the world be what it is. If you still have dreams, follow them and only come back when you had a LAN party with friends and your system didn't crash, and you're ready to sell something REAL.

  • MavolenceMavolence Member UncommonPosts: 635
    Originally posted by MrSnuffles

    Jason Appleton is the real crook here. He is a smart scam artist that tried many schemes to make a quick buck. Right now he poses as an SEO expert on his http://upstager.com/ website. It's a complete scam, some pages with his references/clients still have the Lorem Ipsum placeholder text from the Template he bought to make this website. 

    He also claims to be an SEO expert:

    "Having been doing online marketing, web design, SEO and PPC management for many years for multiple industries, I knew I wanted to help small businesses without $20,000 budgets be able to compete with the industry players. Upstager's focus is doing exactly that."

    http://upstager.com/partner-view/school-of-art/

     

     

    O.o

     

    Holy shit. Deplorable

  • cronius77cronius77 Member UncommonPosts: 1,634
    Just do like the rest of these garbage indie dev teams do- go get green light on steam with a playable demo version of your game with most of your content and features missing and put up a big hyped description. You will rack in millions of dollars and the customers cannot even get a refund and you can sit in alpha 000.1 for 5 years and steam wont do anything about it. All of this to me is another example of idiots throwing their money around without bothering to sit back and think on it first. Kickstarter is a fad that will eventually die out due to people getting burned so much.
  • JamesPJamesP Member UncommonPosts: 541
    Originally posted by Mightyking

    Ah nothing like a daily dose of Greedmonger drama, while sipping your first cup of coffee in the morning. Unfortunately this morning I'm reading the first sensible thing coming out of this project and that's closing it down. But... I'm still missing one element. That's for James to contact Kickstarter and show his contract he shouldn't have signed, and ask them for advise. Try to combine a legal force with them. Kickstarter should be interested, and so should James.

    Once the law starts coming after people you can't run. Be smart about it, it will look a lot better in the eyes of the law when you get the ball rolling yourself. And in the eyes of the backers it will be a great service when Appleton will stand trial, and all his scams will end.

    James, now unplug your Internet cord from your PC and let the world be what it is. If you still have dreams, follow them and only come back when you had a LAN party with friends and your system didn't crash, and you're ready to sell something REAL.

    The Contract we signed with Jason prevents us from being part of any lawsuits regarding what;s happened with KS. And trust me MMOI isn't done... We WILL be back when we have something ready for the public to see. Until then I will still be hanging around on these forums like I've been doing since like 2009 I believe it was when I first joined.

     

    Edit: I take that back it was 2006 that I joined MMORPG.com

    Company Owner
    MMO Interactive

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,488
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Charlie.Cheswick

    So the only remaining question is who is the real Greed Monger?

    Appleton? 

    Proctor? 

    Or the KS backers who so greedily desired a game that they blindly threw hope laced legal tender at it,  praying it would fill the void in their gaming guts?

    Very good question. :)

     

    Appleton played Dr. Frankenstein

    Proctor played Igor

    Greed Monger was the monster

    The KS backers just played the villagers... who always get hosed

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • JamesPJamesP Member UncommonPosts: 541
    Originally posted by MrSnuffles

    Jason Appleton is the real crook here. He is a smart scam artist that tried many schemes to make a quick buck. Right now he poses as an SEO expert on his http://upstager.com/ website. It's a complete scam, some pages with his references/clients still have the Lorem Ipsum placeholder text from the Template he bought to make this website. 

    He also claims to be an SEO expert:

    "Having been doing online marketing, web design, SEO and PPC management for many years for multiple industries, I knew I wanted to help small businesses without $20,000 budgets be able to compete with the industry players. Upstager's focus is doing exactly that."

    http://upstager.com/partner-view/school-of-art/

     

     

    Jason and I had a discussion concerning this back in January when I first found it... Here's a little of our discussion...

     

    [1/20/2015 10:13:18 PM] James Proctor: So upstager.com is that something YOU are doing or is it just an article on a new Website Company?

    [1/20/2015 10:20:24 PM] James Proctor: Just some words of advice... UpStager's website is in some BAD need of a redesign... You should have your contact information both up near the top and at the bottom of the page... People aren't going to want to go all the way to the bottom just to find your contact details... Also things should be much more organized then what they currently are... You should actually have a top Nav bar where there is actually a Contact Us Link that takes them to a page with a nice little form they can fill out to send you a email and your phone number and mailing address so they have those options as well. You should then have a link like about us or something to that effect that takes them to a page where they can learn more about the company. Then another page that lists your prices and packages, and finally a showcase page where you can show off YOUR work...

    [1/20/2015 10:24:21 PM] James Proctor: And another word of advice... Your claiming to have 15 years of experience in website design and Development... Redesign GM's website, get GM to the top of the Google Search Ranks and use that as your starting Showcase to show people interested in your services that you have what it takes... GM's website was just Outsourced and looks like crap right now with it being half broken...

    [1/20/2015 10:42:02 PM] Jason  Appleton: A small business website is a lot different than what I wanted for GM

    [1/20/2015 10:42:14 PM] Jason  Appleton: I've done over 40 sites for people in the past several years

    [1/20/2015 10:42:18 PM] Jason  Appleton: I've ranked several

    [1/20/2015 10:42:55 PM] Jason  Appleton: and the upstager site is responsive and made more for cell phones

    [1/20/2015 10:44:32 PM] James Proctor: Yes it might be responsive... However the majority of your potential Clients will be searching through their Desktops or Laptops not their mobile phones... It should be optimized for them with another version specifically for Cell Phones...

    Company Owner
    MMO Interactive

  • MightykingMightyking Member UncommonPosts: 235
    Originally posted by JamesP
    Originally posted by Mightyking

    Ah nothing like a daily dose of Greedmonger drama, while sipping your first cup of coffee in the morning. Unfortunately this morning I'm reading the first sensible thing coming out of this project and that's closing it down. But... I'm still missing one element. That's for James to contact Kickstarter and show his contract he shouldn't have signed, and ask them for advise. Try to combine a legal force with them. Kickstarter should be interested, and so should James.

    Once the law starts coming after people you can't run. Be smart about it, it will look a lot better in the eyes of the law when you get the ball rolling yourself. And in the eyes of the backers it will be a great service when Appleton will stand trial, and all his scams will end.

    James, now unplug your Internet cord from your PC and let the world be what it is. If you still have dreams, follow them and only come back when you had a LAN party with friends and your system didn't crash, and you're ready to sell something REAL.

    The Contract we signed with Jason prevents us from being part of any lawsuits regarding what;s happened with KS. And trust me MMOI isn't done... We WILL be back when we have something ready for the public to see. Until then I will still be hanging around on these forums like I've been doing since like 2009 I believe it was when I first joined.

     

    Edit: I take that back it was 2006 that I joined MMORPG.com

    Again... no contract can waive criminal actions. Not taking actions makes it the first criminal offence you make. You have to take action, because you see money missing.

  • WaterlilyWaterlily Member UncommonPosts: 3,105
    How many more threads do we need on this. Don't waste your money on kickstarter and this wouldn't keep happening.
  • JamesPJamesP Member UncommonPosts: 541

    Also I know this prob. won't matter much because at this point you guys don't care all that much about what I say. However I really don't think Jason was ever a Scammer and I know GM wasn't a Scam. We mismanged the project. We both made mistakes that hopefully we both will learn from. Until yesterday Jason had been refusing to give us ANY records concerning where the KS Money went to. However yesterday Joel and I sat down with him and went over some of the data. We didn't take the time to go over everything but what we did go over would seem to indicate enough that the entire $100,000 or however GM made in total did in fact go toward the development of GM.

    At the time I wasn't part of the discussions concerning how much each person would get and so I never had that information. Jason was paying people I didn't even know about and there were other expenses I wasn't aware of. 

    In the end as Team Lead I should have managed the team better. I should have insisted on conducting Team Meetings every week and I SHOULD have made sure everything was much more organized... Lesson learned! I need to learn to be more assertive when I know I'm right about something and stand my ground. In the end I believe this will be a great learning experience for all involved.

    Company Owner
    MMO Interactive

  • JamesPJamesP Member UncommonPosts: 541
    Originally posted by Mightyking
    Originally posted by JamesP
    Originally posted by Mightyking

    Ah nothing like a daily dose of Greedmonger drama, while sipping your first cup of coffee in the morning. Unfortunately this morning I'm reading the first sensible thing coming out of this project and that's closing it down. But... I'm still missing one element. That's for James to contact Kickstarter and show his contract he shouldn't have signed, and ask them for advise. Try to combine a legal force with them. Kickstarter should be interested, and so should James.

    Once the law starts coming after people you can't run. Be smart about it, it will look a lot better in the eyes of the law when you get the ball rolling yourself. And in the eyes of the backers it will be a great service when Appleton will stand trial, and all his scams will end.

    James, now unplug your Internet cord from your PC and let the world be what it is. If you still have dreams, follow them and only come back when you had a LAN party with friends and your system didn't crash, and you're ready to sell something REAL.

    The Contract we signed with Jason prevents us from being part of any lawsuits regarding what;s happened with KS. And trust me MMOI isn't done... We WILL be back when we have something ready for the public to see. Until then I will still be hanging around on these forums like I've been doing since like 2009 I believe it was when I first joined.

     

    Edit: I take that back it was 2006 that I joined MMORPG.com

    Again... no contract can waive criminal actions. Not taking actions makes it the first criminal offence you make. You have to take action, because you see money missing.

    Read my last post... After going over the paypal data with Jason I don't believe there IS any missing money... We didn't go over everything but what we did go over certainly seems to indicate it all went toward GM.

    Company Owner
    MMO Interactive

  • MightykingMightyking Member UncommonPosts: 235
    Originally posted by JamesP

    Read my last post... After going over the paypal data with Jason I don't believe there IS any missing money... We didn't go over everything but what we did go over certainly seems to indicate it all went toward GM.

    Sorry for dragging this... but this is very important. What you say here is very different from what you said earlier. You have said you accounted for about $20k worth of salaries, assets, rental of servers. The kickstarter mentions Jason A. received $100k, and as others have pointed out more donations have been via paypal, for the sale of more imaginary plots in a game that's now officially vaporware. I'm not an economist, nor a mathemetician, but what happened to the $80k?

    If it can not be accounted for, it's called fraud.

This discussion has been closed.