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Greed Monger Cancelled; $100,000+ in Kickstarter Funds Unaccounted For

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Comments

  • TheeLordTheeLord Member UncommonPosts: 138

    This behavior sickens me to no end!!!!   My team and I have spent years and years since 2008! building the backend of our game, making it solid first, then adding fancy graphics etc...  Not asking for any money to do it, not asking for noteriety etc...  This guy was a SNAKE and belongs in Jail!   I made multiple posts on different forums saying this was a scam and not to buy into it when it was first posted.  Even if they had intentions of making the game, they were being very dishonest about how far along they were and how long it would take them to complete.  It was glaringly obvious to me (as a programmer, and Unity dev) that he had simply gotten some pre-made assets from the Unity Asset store, stuck them in a scene, walked around and said in his video that "the game will be done within months, look at our awesome progress, give us money".

    Now people are that much less inclined to trust other honest indie devs like myself that have been putting years into their games and deserve the shot that was given to that horrible human being.  /rant off  =(

    Founder and Lead developer of Factions. The complete fantasy sandbox survival MMO.
    Factions indiedb Page (most up to date info) | Factions Website

  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    Originally posted by Azrilee
    Originally posted by MrSnuffles
    Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
    Originally posted by MrSnuffles

    1: TRUE! Kickstarter EULA explicitly states that physical rewards must be delivered or they will take legal action. The backers just need to write to Kickstarter that the T-Shirts have not been delivered and the game has been canceled.

    2: I agree, i would be very careful with what i say if i where JamesP.

    I've been thinking about this, and I'm sorry if somebody has mentioned it before, but what if this whole charade was / is an attempt to deliberately obfuscate the issue at hand if they do get sued? All this asset switching, convoluted accounting, back-alley dealing and contracts, etc. would make one hell of a screwed up paper trail. It won't stop a good, determined lawyer, but most lawyers would probably look at the time needed to unravel it and decide that 100K isn't worth the hassle. Not to mention the legal fees that would have to be paid by the plaintiff. Don't forget, Assholeton has been all but proven to be a 'professional' con man. He probably knows how to cover his ass, and it sounds like something he would do. 

    Just something to think about...

    He can't transfer the contractual obligation he had with Kickstarter. Jason Appleton is the one responsible for the Kickstarter promises. No legal document can change that.

    This is false.   An oblgation or debt can certainly be transfered by a legal document, it happens all the time when one company buys out another company.

    The Kickstarter is with Jason Appleton personally. He could declare bankruptcy but he can not transfer the obligations to another person unless the Kickstarter/The Backers agree to holding this other company/person liable. The same is true for your credit card debt, your bank has to agree to hold someone else liable for your debt.

    In any case, with these jokers there is no legal company to transfer anything. I doubt that Jason or James actually had a legal company at all.

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    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774
    Originally posted by MrSnuffles
     

    In any case, with these jokers there is no legal company to transfer anything. I doubt that Jason or James actually had a legal company at all.

    yeh .. all these legal talk is just .. talk. All the money was long gone, and there is nothing to recover.

    I wouldn't mind to see them put in jail as an example though, if some prosecutor can find a felony to charge them.

  • XeroKnightXeroKnight Member UncommonPosts: 92
    Pretty ironic that the game was titled Greed Monger... lmao. Took the money and ran.

    image

  • RheanonRheanon Member UncommonPosts: 130

    Well, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.  I was one of those who got scammed through the Kickstarter campaign.  Although, when all the drama occurred on this site years ago.  I was one of the biggest GM defenders.  At the time, I believed the GM detractors were a bunch of trolls who just wanted to sabotage the project.  I was wrong and I learned my lesson.  I will look at Kickstarter projects with a wary eye from now on. 

    The only redeeming thing coming out of this project is the people that comprised the GM community.  They were great.  I just feel bad for all those guys and gals who bought islands and invested thousands of dollars.  Just my 2 cents on the matter.

  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    Originally posted by Rheanon

    Well, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.  I was one of those who got scammed through the Kickstarter campaign.  Although, when all the drama occurred on this site years ago.  I was one of the biggest GM defenders.  At the time, I believed the GM detractors were a bunch of trolls who just wanted to sabotage the project.  I was wrong and I learned my lesson.  I will look at Kickstarter projects with a wary eye from now on. 

    The only redeeming thing coming out of this project is the people that comprised the GM community.  They were great.  I just feel bad for all those guys and gals who bought islands and invested thousands of dollars.  Just my 2 cents on the matter.

    I am sorry to hear that you got burned. It never hurts to do some background checks on all EarlyAccess and Kickstarter type deals. I usually google info and check if any of the artwork or screenshots are "borrowed" from other sites using google image search. But most of the time i just wait until the last week to see how it develops. No need to rush anything with Kickstarter.

    Good luck next time :)

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    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

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  • RusqueRusque Member RarePosts: 2,785
    Originally posted by Rheanon

    Well, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.  I was one of those who got scammed through the Kickstarter campaign.  Although, when all the drama occurred on this site years ago.  I was one of the biggest GM defenders.  At the time, I believed the GM detractors were a bunch of trolls who just wanted to sabotage the project.  I was wrong and I learned my lesson.  I will look at Kickstarter projects with a wary eye from now on. 

    The only redeeming thing coming out of this project is the people that comprised the GM community.  They were great.  I just feel bad for all those guys and gals who bought islands and invested thousands of dollars.  Just my 2 cents on the matter.

    I have to know, did you believe an MMO could be built for $100k? Or did Appleton claim to have millions from private investors? I'd like to think he was ignorant of what it would take to build GM, but $100k?

  • RheanonRheanon Member UncommonPosts: 130
    Originally posted by Rusque
    Originally posted by Rheanon

    Well, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.  I was one of those who got scammed through the Kickstarter campaign.  Although, when all the drama occurred on this site years ago.  I was one of the biggest GM defenders.  At the time, I believed the GM detractors were a bunch of trolls who just wanted to sabotage the project.  I was wrong and I learned my lesson.  I will look at Kickstarter projects with a wary eye from now on. 

    The only redeeming thing coming out of this project is the people that comprised the GM community.  They were great.  I just feel bad for all those guys and gals who bought islands and invested thousands of dollars.  Just my 2 cents on the matter.

    I have to know, did you believe an MMO could be built for $100k? Or did Appleton claim to have millions from private investors? I'd like to think he was ignorant of what it would take to build GM, but $100k?

    I believe he said he would self-fund the project if Kickstarter failed to fund the whole thing.   All his Kickstarter promises are stated on the GM page of the Kickstarter site.  I have to admit he could write up a great sounding project.  On the other hand, Xsyon was doing a Kickstarter campaign around  the same time.  That campaign failed and yet Xsyon is a great playable sandbox that is being developed slow but steady.  The difference between GM and Xsyon is like night and day in terms of development, customer service and game content.  In retrospect, I shoulld have contributed to that instead.  Just mho.

  • MightykingMightyking Member UncommonPosts: 235
    Originally posted by Rheanon
    Originally posted by Rusque
    Originally posted by Rheanon

    Well, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.  I was one of those who got scammed through the Kickstarter campaign.  Although, when all the drama occurred on this site years ago.  I was one of the biggest GM defenders.  At the time, I believed the GM detractors were a bunch of trolls who just wanted to sabotage the project.  I was wrong and I learned my lesson.  I will look at Kickstarter projects with a wary eye from now on. 

    The only redeeming thing coming out of this project is the people that comprised the GM community.  They were great.  I just feel bad for all those guys and gals who bought islands and invested thousands of dollars.  Just my 2 cents on the matter.

    I have to know, did you believe an MMO could be built for $100k? Or did Appleton claim to have millions from private investors? I'd like to think he was ignorant of what it would take to build GM, but $100k?

    I believe he said he would self-fund the project if Kickstarter failed to fund the whole thing.   All his Kickstarter promises are stated on the GM page of the Kickstarter site.  I have to admit he could write up a great sounding project.  On the other hand, Xsyon was doing a Kickstarter campaign around  the same time.  That campaign failed and yet Xsyon is a great playable sandbox that is being developed slow but steady.  The difference between GM and Xsyon is like night and day in terms of development, customer service and game content.  In retrospect, I shoulld have contributed to that instead.  Just mho.

    In the famous Markeedragon youtube-interview, Appleton claimed he had a sugardaddy who could step in with funding. He also claimed he had a server farm sitting in some datacenter.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wkgmYxysEI

  • MyobiMyobi Member UncommonPosts: 63
    Originally posted by Rheanon

    Well, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.  I was one of those who got scammed through the Kickstarter campaign.  Although, when all the drama occurred on this site years ago.  I was one of the biggest GM defenders.  At the time, I believed the GM detractors were a bunch of trolls who just wanted to sabotage the project.  I was wrong and I learned my lesson.  I will look at Kickstarter projects with a wary eye from now on. 

    The only redeeming thing coming out of this project is the people that comprised the GM community.  They were great.  I just feel bad for all those guys and gals who bought islands and invested thousands of dollars.  Just my 2 cents on the matter.

    What a dejavu, lol. I’ve been called a troll, among other not such sweet things by a fan base from a project similar to Greed Monger, many of those fans had a hard time swallowing it up after giving the project over 60,000$ in “donations” and watching the 3 main “developers” admitting that they couldn’t even program, thus why they wanted the money (to hire people who could…).

    May I ask you, why won’t you take legal action against them? As far as I know, they didn’t even sent the t-shirt that they were obligated to due to the Kickstarter, just that itself allows you to do so… 

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774
    Originally posted by Rheanon
     

    I believe he said he would self-fund the project if Kickstarter failed to fund the whole thing.   

    lol . really? You think he has tens of millions (which is how much it will cost to make a decent MMO) and he still needs to beg on KS for a measely $100k?

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Member RarePosts: 5,484
    Originally posted by Myobi
    Originally posted by Rheanon

    Well, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.  I was one of those who got scammed through the Kickstarter campaign.  Although, when all the drama occurred on this site years ago.  I was one of the biggest GM defenders.  At the time, I believed the GM detractors were a bunch of trolls who just wanted to sabotage the project.  I was wrong and I learned my lesson.  I will look at Kickstarter projects with a wary eye from now on. 

    The only redeeming thing coming out of this project is the people that comprised the GM community.  They were great.  I just feel bad for all those guys and gals who bought islands and invested thousands of dollars.  Just my 2 cents on the matter.

    What a dejavu, lol. I’ve been called a troll, among other not such sweet things by a fan base from a project similar to Greed Monger, many of those fans had a hard time swallowing it up after giving the project over 60,000$ in “donations” and watching the 3 main “developers” admitting that they couldn’t even program, thus why they wanted the money (to hire people who could…).

    May I ask you, why won’t you take legal action against them? As far as I know, they didn’t even sent the t-shirt that they were obligated to due to the Kickstarter, just that itself allows you to do so… 

    How many thousands in legal fees will it cost to get a t-shirt for a dead game. The money is gone.

    "We have met the enemy and he is us." ~Pogo Possum. 

  • MyobiMyobi Member UncommonPosts: 63
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by Myobi
    Originally posted by Rheanon

    Well, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.  I was one of those who got scammed through the Kickstarter campaign.  Although, when all the drama occurred on this site years ago.  I was one of the biggest GM defenders.  At the time, I believed the GM detractors were a bunch of trolls who just wanted to sabotage the project.  I was wrong and I learned my lesson.  I will look at Kickstarter projects with a wary eye from now on. 

    The only redeeming thing coming out of this project is the people that comprised the GM community.  They were great.  I just feel bad for all those guys and gals who bought islands and invested thousands of dollars.  Just my 2 cents on the matter.

    What a dejavu, lol. I’ve been called a troll, among other not such sweet things by a fan base from a project similar to Greed Monger, many of those fans had a hard time swallowing it up after giving the project over 60,000$ in “donations” and watching the 3 main “developers” admitting that they couldn’t even program, thus why they wanted the money (to hire people who could…).

    May I ask you, why won’t you take legal action against them? As far as I know, they didn’t even sent the t-shirt that they were obligated to due to the Kickstarter, just that itself allows you to do so… 

    How many thousands in legal fees will it cost to get a t-shirt for a dead game. The money is gone.

    It’s not about the t-shirt or getting the money back, even so, just because he already spent it, doesn’t mean that he can’t be forced to pay it all back if it comes to that. If people have money to throw at something they don’t know jackshit about, I would assume they should have for this kind of thing, especially when there were offers of fianancial support for the people who take legal action against them in this same thread.

  • RheanonRheanon Member UncommonPosts: 130
    Originally posted by Myobi

    It’s not about the t-shirt or getting the money back, even so, just because he already spent it, doesn’t mean that he can’t be forced to pay it all back if it comes to that. If people have money to throw at something they don’t know jackshit about, I would assume they should have for this kind of thing, especially when there were offers of fianancial support for the people who take legal action against them in this same thread.

    To me its water under the bridge.  Let's just say it was the most expensive T-shirt I have ever bought.  Why make it more expensive still?  I chalk the whole GM fiasco up to a learning experience and my glass is half full.   If one doesn't  have that attitude life will not be very happy.  I like mine to be :D

  • MightykingMightyking Member UncommonPosts: 235

    I thought people using kickstarter were most of all interested in supporting indie developers realising their plans? What debacles like Greed monger are doing is lowering the credibility of kickstarter as a platform, it turns many potential backers away from projects due to fear of money disappearing down the drain, just as happened with Greed monger.

    If you really want to support indie developers the best thing here that can be done is justice, and bring credibility back to kickstarter. I think everyone agrees that the core idea of Kickstarter is a good thing, but as often is the case Greed (pun intended) destroys many good ideas.

  • akiira69akiira69 Member UncommonPosts: 604
    This is why I dont do Kickstarter Projects. In my opinion helping fund a Kickstarter Project is like blindly choosing a company to buy stocks in. Yeah it is possible to choose a company that will make you some money but majority of times you will lose more than you will make. If you want to pre-order a game the best thing to do is pre-order at a store like GameStop. This way if the project goes south and gets shut down you a guaranteed to get your money back.

    "Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774
    Originally posted by akiira69
    This is why I dont do Kickstarter Projects. In my opinion helping fund a Kickstarter Project is like blindly choosing a company to buy stocks in.

    It is worse.

    If a company you invests in becomes successful, you make money and get the upside. Even if a KS project is successful, you get no upside.

    If you look at it as an investment, it is horrible .. you bear all the risk with zero upside.

  • Scott23Scott23 Member UncommonPosts: 293
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by akiira69
    This is why I dont do Kickstarter Projects. In my opinion helping fund a Kickstarter Project is like blindly choosing a company to buy stocks in.

    It is worse.

    If a company you invests in becomes successful, you make money and get the upside. Even if a KS project is successful, you get no upside.

    If you look at it as an investment, it is horrible .. you bear all the risk with zero upside.

    ^^^ This.  Supporting  a project on Kickstarter is a donation, not an investment.  The few that I help I take out of the same pool of money that I donate to other projects or causes that I think are worthy.  I just don't get a tax deduction for Kickstarter pledges :)

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774
    Originally posted by Scott23
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by akiira69
    This is why I dont do Kickstarter Projects. In my opinion helping fund a Kickstarter Project is like blindly choosing a company to buy stocks in.

    It is worse.

    If a company you invests in becomes successful, you make money and get the upside. Even if a KS project is successful, you get no upside.

    If you look at it as an investment, it is horrible .. you bear all the risk with zero upside.

    ^^^ This.  Supporting  a project on Kickstarter is a donation, not an investment.  The few that I help I take out of the same pool of money that I donate to other projects or causes that I think are worthy.  I just don't get a tax deduction for Kickstarter pledges :)

    Yes .. it is definitely a donation ... to people who are unable to find investor funding to make games. 

  • MrSnufflesMrSnuffles Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
    Originally posted by Mightyking
    Originally posted by Rheanon
    Originally posted by Rusque
    Originally posted by Rheanon

    Well, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.  I was one of those who got scammed through the Kickstarter campaign.  Although, when all the drama occurred on this site years ago.  I was one of the biggest GM defenders.  At the time, I believed the GM detractors were a bunch of trolls who just wanted to sabotage the project.  I was wrong and I learned my lesson.  I will look at Kickstarter projects with a wary eye from now on. 

    The only redeeming thing coming out of this project is the people that comprised the GM community.  They were great.  I just feel bad for all those guys and gals who bought islands and invested thousands of dollars.  Just my 2 cents on the matter.

    I have to know, did you believe an MMO could be built for $100k? Or did Appleton claim to have millions from private investors? I'd like to think he was ignorant of what it would take to build GM, but $100k?

    I believe he said he would self-fund the project if Kickstarter failed to fund the whole thing.   All his Kickstarter promises are stated on the GM page of the Kickstarter site.  I have to admit he could write up a great sounding project.  On the other hand, Xsyon was doing a Kickstarter campaign around  the same time.  That campaign failed and yet Xsyon is a great playable sandbox that is being developed slow but steady.  The difference between GM and Xsyon is like night and day in terms of development, customer service and game content.  In retrospect, I shoulld have contributed to that instead.  Just mho.

    In the famous Markeedragon youtube-interview, Appleton claimed he had a sugardaddy who could step in with funding. He also claimed he had a server farm sitting in some datacenter.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wkgmYxysEI

    Right now he pretends to be:

     

     

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    "It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
    - Michael Bitton
    Community Manager, MMORPG.com

    "As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law

    "I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." 
    - SEANMCAD

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  • ceratop001ceratop001 Member RarePosts: 1,594
    I agree with the concept of kickstarting to fund a game. Honestly the whole venture from the consumer and developer side is way too risky.  You can easily get burned from this, and if criminals start to get involved the whole thing will be out of control. Wait to the professional scammers start to see an angle in this and all heck will break loose. My opinion is do not ever fund this kickstarter stuff because it's too easy to get ripped off.
     
  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 732

    Not necessarily related to Greed Monger directly, however, still relevant news in the realm of crowdfunding and scams.

    http://news.yahoo.com/federal-regulators-crowdfunding-scam-133408224--finance.html

    It's is a complete shame, since both James and Jason walked away with $100,000+ dollars that they provided them. Possibly bought a house, a few game engines to play with, and a few new computers for James. Granted, the backers of Greed Monger really don't seem to care, so why should we?

  • AzrileeAzrilee Member CommonPosts: 22
    Originally posted by Mightyking

    I thought people using kickstarter were most of all interested in supporting indie developers realising their plans? What debacles like Greed monger are doing is lowering the credibility of kickstarter as a platform, it turns many potential backers away from projects due to fear of money disappearing down the drain, just as happened with Greed monger.

    If you really want to support indie developers the best thing here that can be done is justice, and bring credibility back to kickstarter. I think everyone agrees that the core idea of Kickstarter is a good thing, but as often is the case Greed (pun intended) destroys many good ideas.

    Again, it is just common sense, especially about a MMORPG.   With GreedMonger you had Proctor as the lead developer who had never made a game before.  Nobody had ever heard of him..  a few weeks ago he gave us to a link of a game he made before KS... it was a freakin broken space invader game.   So you had Appleton who was honest and said he never made a game before, and a lead developer who also couldn´t produce an resume´..  What makes any sane person think they were going to make a MMORPG as their first project?  Forget what people say, look at what they have done.

    The same is true of Trials of Ascension... 3 nobodies who can´t program decide to do a KS for $750,000 so they can hire real devs to make their game?...  seriously?   They have now failed 2 kickstarters and had a cash-shop selling virtual items BEFORE they even started making the game.   Today they are ´re-launching´ their website to try again to collect money for a game that is basically a guy running around a Unity map.

    People just need some common sense.  Companies, BIG companies struggle to make a MMORPG despite having dozens or hundreds of employees who are trained and have experience making games.   Trials of Ascension and GreedMonger were done by nobodies who had never made a game before...

    This entire thing says NOTHING about kickstarter, instead it says a lot about people´s basic ability to do a tiny bit of research.   Hi, Jason Appleton... you want $100,000 to make a MMORPG... show me your credits on any game.... show me the portfolio of your lead developer..... oh, you can´t...   ok.. bye.    Trials of Ascension.. same thing.. 3 devs, 0 games... who the hell is going to pre-order a game from them that doesn´t exist or buy ´dance moves´ or an eyepatch for their character, when the character doesn´t even exist yet.

    Stop blaming KS for any of this.  just use a little common sense about the most difficult game to make.

  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,634

    People gave money to a guy that looks like Bernie Madoff and expected a different result? Making a game called Greed Monger, you say?

    Um, ok.

     

    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • DarkcrystalDarkcrystal Member UncommonPosts: 963

    Being a game developer myself, and a gamer for 30 plus years I told my friends, family to stay clear from this game, I could tell  there was many red flags . One I was always check the history of companys and developers.   Another what they created so far. Which was not much.   I develop alot  more alone  than they did for a game I made.   I worked for big and small companies and now alone, I would never ever try to make a MMORPG....   You need a good team, and they need to be very experienced.  Even then I would make a smaller scale game first to see how well you work together. Because not every one can work together.   Then make money from it, and use some of it to help fund your game.

     

     

    I believe these guys did not scam at first, I believe they were way over there head. Which even happen to Curt Schilling..  I think once they realized that, they tried to get them selves out and only got worse. The lead on the team, I believe was Jason which was a gamer, that was a bad sign... The Lead Programmer was someone who never made a game before, or completed one or was successful. Which is another sign..One more sign was they switched Engines from Unity, to Hero , back  to Unity.. For a MMO they could of stayed with Hero, but I bet they lack the experienced and realized no tuts for Hero.... They figured the asset store and community, tuts could save them..  For an MMO that won't happen... You need the right team, experience to do so... 

     

    You need a few smaller scale games, some multiplayer games under your belt and maybe some larger scale games, then move on to a MMO and by then have a company built around those games..First!!

     

    I see to many  people try to make a MMO and fail and peopel try and make MMO's and before they  even start fail as the team realizes how much work is involved, making smaller games even can take alot...

     

    ALot of smart experienced devs are moving to Phone /Tablet games now because you can make decent money with single man teams or small teams.. They should have did this, but were not very smart....

     

     

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