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Greed Monger Cancelled; $100,000+ in Kickstarter Funds Unaccounted For

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Comments

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by MadFrenchie
     

    Then you might also want to find a soapbox to call out the religious organizations throughout the world.  Mad potential for scamming there, and the main oversight (in my opinion) is a make-believe guy in the sky.  Seems a lot less oversight than Kickstarter.

     

    Also, as another poster pointed out, there are many other platforms for people to offer products and services that are potential avenues to scamming.  In fact, if a platform exists at all in which people offer the opportunity to invest and/or pay for products or services, there (by realistic definition) exists a potential for scamming.

    Sure .. when i have time. Calling out KS here is convenient since I am here already (and you know how much i like convenience).

    If I could +1 a post, I'd give you an upvote here, narius. image  A thumbs up emote will have to suffice!

    image
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 8,280
    Its going to get to the point that gamers will not be able to till the scammers from the real games and it will wreck it for everyone. This is why we cant have nice things!!!
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774
    Originally posted by MadFrenchie
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by MadFrenchie
     

    Then you might also want to find a soapbox to call out the religious organizations throughout the world.  Mad potential for scamming there, and the main oversight (in my opinion) is a make-believe guy in the sky.  Seems a lot less oversight than Kickstarter.

     

    Also, as another poster pointed out, there are many other platforms for people to offer products and services that are potential avenues to scamming.  In fact, if a platform exists at all in which people offer the opportunity to invest and/or pay for products or services, there (by realistic definition) exists a potential for scamming.

    Sure .. when i have time. Calling out KS here is convenient since I am here already (and you know how much i like convenience).

    If I could +1 a post, I'd give you an upvote here, narius. image  A thumbs up emote will have to suffice!

    lol .. thank you!

    I think you have to agree that at least I am entertaining and witty, at least occasionally. But please don't hold back disagreeing ... just because i make it fun.

     

     

  • AzrileeAzrilee Member CommonPosts: 22
    Originally posted by DeVoDeVo

    I'm still trying to figure out what Joel got out of the loot bag.

    Appleton got anywhere from 60- 80k out of the loot bag by most accounts.

    Proctor got a small cut of $$, new computer, software and licenses from the loot.

    What did Joel get to warrant his time?  A new couch perhaps?

    I don´t think Appleton got that much money.  He had a pretty big team during the KS and had to pay them as soon as the KS ended.  Also, you have to know the software he was buying.. he wasn´t just buying $10 assets from the Unity store, he was buying some pretty big stuff.

    Proctor got a few thousand dollars, a new computer, and about $20k worth of softward and Unity assets that he is too dumb to use.. which was the whole point of showing that Space Invaders game and the January GreedMonger video.  He kept having Jason buy really expensive stuff, and then he was expecting it to be plug-n-play.   When he realized the stuff actually required you to have some programming skills,  he couldn´t use it.

    Joel Lump.   Did you see the google hangout or the posts he made on MMO-Champ?   He is like Proctor, a complete nobody.  For a few weeks he was able to post on forums acting like an angel investor and a big businessman.  He made many posts on MMO-champ about branding and marketing and his leadership skills.  He made posts about self funding Greedmonger... it was like Proctor, it was all just faking.  When it all came out.. he is just another man-child living in his mothers house pretending to be someone important.   He had his bluff called about the t-shirts.. he said if Jason mailed him the t-shirts he would send them out to backers.. because, you know.. him and James were all about making things right with the backers.   But then when Jason actually did give him the t-shirts.... oh crap... he called my bluff... Joel didn´t even think the t-shirts existed, so was making an empty promise to mail them out..  but now that he has the shirts.. come to find out he doesn´t have enough money to even buy the plastic bags to mail the shirt out in...and now that he cannot RP an important businessman who is going to rebrand and lead MMOI ... nope, Jason called his bluff, and now Joel Lumpy is back to being just a child living with his mother with a coupld dozen t-shirts he can´t affort to mail out until his mom gives him his allowance.   Seriously,  read his posts on MMO-champ... and then watch him on the Google hangout..  it was all just some nobody pretending to be someone important until it all fell apart.

    by the way.  MMOI is still not a real company..  not registered anywhere.   Joel and Proctor just faked a company and are pretending to be CEOs of it.

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by MadFrenchie
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by MadFrenchie
     

    Then you might also want to find a soapbox to call out the religious organizations throughout the world.  Mad potential for scamming there, and the main oversight (in my opinion) is a make-believe guy in the sky.  Seems a lot less oversight than Kickstarter.

     

    Also, as another poster pointed out, there are many other platforms for people to offer products and services that are potential avenues to scamming.  In fact, if a platform exists at all in which people offer the opportunity to invest and/or pay for products or services, there (by realistic definition) exists a potential for scamming.

    Sure .. when i have time. Calling out KS here is convenient since I am here already (and you know how much i like convenience).

    If I could +1 a post, I'd give you an upvote here, narius. image  A thumbs up emote will have to suffice!

    lol .. thank you!

    I think you have to agree that at least I am entertaining and witty, at least occasionally. But please don't hold back disagreeing ... just because i make it fun.

     

     

    Nah, I think you now by now I'm not gonna refrain from disagreeing lol.  But I'll never hold the argument against you, since you're never one to attack anyone's person!  

    image
  • pkpkpkpkpkpk Member UncommonPosts: 236
    Thank you for this post. In the future, please inform of other disasters in this vein. I love to hear about the MMORPG tourists getting what they deserve.
  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130

    99% of all kickstarter projects:

  • MyobiMyobi Member UncommonPosts: 63
    Originally posted by Kiyoris

    99% of all kickstarter projects:

    https://www.kickstarter.com/help/stats

     

    Originally posted by pkpkpk
    Thank you for this post. In the future, please inform of other disasters in this vein. I love to hear about the MMORPG tourists getting what they deserve.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1536961-Trials-of-Ascension-Shady-Practices-and-the-Big-Crowdfunding-Debate

    Enjoy.

     

  • MightykingMightyking Member UncommonPosts: 235
    Originally posted by Myobi

    https://www.kickstarter.com/help/stats 

    You do realise the uselessness of that page?

    According to Kickstarter Greed monger is a successful project. For them it is indeed, for Appleton as well.

  • MyobiMyobi Member UncommonPosts: 63
    Originally posted by Mightyking
    Originally posted by Myobi

    https://www.kickstarter.com/help/stats 

    You do realise the uselessness of that page?

    According to Kickstarter Greed monger is a successful project. For them it is indeed, for Appleton as well.

     

    Yawn* Oh boy there we go again, dude we get it already, you dislike Kickstarter and want to blame it for the project creators lies and the project backers stupidity since they supposedly “allow” frauds in their platform, with happens to be against their EULA actually, with I’m willing to bet that you didn’t bother reading yet. Still, just because you have that opinion you don’t have to start twisting shit up, as far as I know, according to Kickstarter Greed Monger had a successful FUNDING, with is quite different from what you are claiming.

    Also before you keep quoting every single post I make to whine about Kickstarter, I’m actually going to suggest you something, READ THEIR FUCKING SHIT UP, starting by this:

    https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use#section4

    “The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers.”

    Someone in this freaking post as offered money to everyone who presents him the paperwork of legal action against Greed Monger, NO ONE EVEN BOTHERED SO FAR, they just rather stand still and complain about it and I bet that most of them, like you, didn’t even bother reading the shit up before using their services.

    “Ohh but it doesn’t matter because they can still use it for frauds, QQ”, well welcome to the fucking world mate! Shall I name you the other millions of services out there that can also be used for fraudulent business so that you can complain about them here as well?

    … and about that link, just because YOU don’t trust the website self-information doesn’t mean it’s useless, either way, still more useful than a random internet guy %’s pulled out of his own ass.

    Now please, just ignore the facts and repeat yourself all over again like you have been doing so far, I’m sure that one day it might stick.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 8,280
    Originally posted by Myobi
    Originally posted by Kiyoris

    99% of all kickstarter projects:

    https://www.kickstarter.com/help/stats

     

    Originally posted by pkpkpk
    Thank you for this post. In the future, please inform of other disasters in this vein. I love to hear about the MMORPG tourists getting what they deserve.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1536961-Trials-of-Ascension-Shady-Practices-and-the-Big-Crowdfunding-Debate

    Enjoy.

     

    I read that only 33% of all Kickstarter games get released. How many of them are good games, well thats a figure I would love to see. As for Kickstarter MMOs, we have yet to see one release. My bet is the stat will be way lower then 33%.

  • damond5031damond5031 Member UncommonPosts: 445
    Any of you guys ever seen the documentary American Movie? It really has many parallels with the Greed Monger team, minus all the scamming.  This guy basically caused his family to go broke making a movie but never really made it to scamming the public at large. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0181288/
  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,703

    A game called "greed monger" on kickstarter gets a bunch of money and never gets produced.  Huh, who would have guessed 

     

    I think if you installed a button on a wall and put a sign up that read "Insert 50 bucks and push for a kick in the crouch", people would still push the button and be angry about the kick in the crouch. 

     

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

     

    I read that only 33% of all Kickstarter games get released. How many of them are good games, well thats a figure I would love to see. As for Kickstarter MMOs, we have yet to see one release. My bet is the stat will be way lower then 33%.

    I wonder why people would risk their hard earn money for that kind of risks.

    1) There is no upside ... the best case scenario, you have a product .. which is probably meh compared to all the other already available stuff out there.

    2) Even if something is released, there is zero guarantee on the quality.

    3) There is also no guarantee if the original description is accurate since people can say anything to KS.

    I know there are suckers out there ... but so many of them with such disregard for their money ... it boggles the mind.

     

  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Member RarePosts: 2,698

    There have been only two things I have backed on Kickstarter.. The Crabby Wallet ( best wallet ever for those that dont carry tons of things IMO ) and Divinity. I knew of Larian as I bought their previous games and enjoyed them so I felt that was a safe bet.

    I dont think I would ever back an MMORPG unless it was from an already established / known team that already displayed a good amount of work being done prior to asking for money. Other than I only entertain the idea of backing non game projects that look useful in everyday life and smaller scale games. I may also think about backing any DnD tile and character model projects.

  • MightykingMightyking Member UncommonPosts: 235
    Originally posted by Myobi
    Originally posted by Mightyking
    Originally posted by Myobi

    https://www.kickstarter.com/help/stats 

    You do realise the uselessness of that page?

    According to Kickstarter Greed monger is a successful project. For them it is indeed, for Appleton as well.

     

    Yawn* Oh boy there we go again, dude we get it already, you dislike Kickstarter

    Source?

    and want to blame it for the project creators lies and the project backers stupidity

    Source?

    since they supposedly “allow” frauds in their platform, with happens to be against their EULA actually, with I’m willing to bet that you didn’t bother reading yet.

    True you got me there, I didn't read all, but who does read everything? I did read enough to see that there are a few important things missing. See my proposal in this thread where I provided 3 points of improvement. Also note that I can easily lie about reading everything.

    Still, just because you have that opinion

    You going to quote the same source I guess?

    you don’t have to start twisting

    I'm giving my opinions on a forum, if you don't like my opinion I'm sure it's convenient to call it twisting.

    shit up,

    LOL? Excuse me?

    as far as I know, according to Kickstarter Greed Monger had a successful FUNDING, with is quite different from what you are claiming.

    I didn't claim anything. I said that the stats page if useless, because those numbers only show, as you say as well, how many projects are successfully funded. But successful funding does not equal success of a project. A successful project should be when the project gets delivered.

    Also before you keep quoting every single post I make

    I went back over this whole thread and I quoted two of your replies. If you don't want to be quoted perhaps you should consider stop posting.

    to whine about Kickstarter

    Yes the topic of the thread has changed and focused more on Kickstarter. What is your point?

    , I’m actually going to suggest you something, READ THEIR FUCKING SHIT UP, starting by this:

    https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use#section4

    As said before I read sections that are actually important. But since there's always to much legal shit hidden in there I'm sorry to inform you that a skip that.

    “The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers.”

    Good point, that's why I already knew it.

    Someone in this freaking post as offered money to everyone who presents him the paperwork of legal action against Greed Monger, NO ONE EVEN BOTHERED SO FAR, they just rather stand still and complain about it and I bet that most of them, like you, didn’t even bother reading the shit up before using their services.

    If you actually bothered than you will find out that it was actually me that offered $250. What have you done? I'm also sorry to inform you but I didn't back greedmonger or indeed I WOULD have started a case myself.

    “Ohh but it doesn’t matter because they can still use it for frauds, QQ”, well welcome to the fucking world mate! Shall I name you the other millions of services out there that can also be used for fraudulent business so that you can complain about them here as well?

    Someone else mentioned this argument before. He used craigslist as an example of a platform. Since you bring it up, I'll give you a reply. There is an intrinsic and important difference between craigslist and kickstarter. Kickstarter is getting it's revenue directly from the failure of a project, whether the intent of the project was righteous or not. Craigslist does not. It gets it's revenue from advertisements and page clicks. Don't think that's an important difference?

    … and about that link, just because YOU don’t trust the website self-information doesn’t mean it’s useless, either way, still more useful than a random internet guy %’s pulled out of his own ass.

    I'm sure the numbers are correct. But the numbers are useless for what you were trying to answer. And the reason was that Kickstarter only measures successful funding. It does not do anything after funding.

    Now please, just ignore the facts and repeat yourself all over again like you have been doing so far, I’m sure that one day it might stick.

    Thanks for your concern.

     

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 13,017

    My real concern is that people will start to lose faith in KS and the like. I see KS as the only hope we will get gaming back to what it used to be. To a hobby that is not subject to the demands of being an entertainment on the same level as films. To a pastime that puts innovation in front of franchises. A gaming where people expect a game to be good enough to play more than a month before they put it down.

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • ArakaziArakazi Member UncommonPosts: 911
    Is this irony?
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 13,017
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

     

    I read that only 33% of all Kickstarter games get released. How many of them are good games, well thats a figure I would love to see. As for Kickstarter MMOs, we have yet to see one release. My bet is the stat will be way lower then 33%.

    I wonder why people would risk their hard earn money for that kind of risks.

    1) There is no upside ... the best case scenario, you have a product .. which is probably meh compared to all the other already available stuff out there.

    2) Even if something is released, there is zero guarantee on the quality.

    3) There is also no guarantee if the original description is accurate since people can say anything to KS.

    I know there are suckers out there ... but so many of them with such disregard for their money ... it boggles the mind.

     

    Nari, you seem happy for whales to waste money in a cash shop, but not for people to waste money in KS. Which is rather odd. In KS you get to fund what you believe gaming should be like. For someone like you who thinks the genre is fabulous as it is, that concept is going to be hard to get your head round.

    The products whales buy do not have a guaranteed quality (nothing in the world does mind you). People pre-order games with no guarantee that "the original description is accurate". How is that any different from KS?

    I do advise caution on KS, but then I also advise caution on pre-order. I see little difference there between how the two models work in that regard, be cautious of both.

     

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • madazzmadazz Member RarePosts: 2,036

    Man you guys frickin love day time drama shows I bet.

     

    Look how much time you guys are wasting on something that nearly all of you couldn't care less about beforehand. This is a game, that even if launched, would have closed within a year, and it would have never even become remotely popular, but like art, once its dead its more valuable. 

  • TraugarTraugar Member UncommonPosts: 183
    Everyone talking about lawsuits is crazy.  You gave money to an obviously inexperienced team to attempt to make a game.  They weren't ready for the task at hand.  Just because you were dumb enough to give them money doesn't mean they are the only party at fault.  I like kickstarter, but I accept it for what it is.  I have pledged to several projects that probably will not amount to anything, but I understood that was a chance I was taking when I pledged.  
  • damond5031damond5031 Member UncommonPosts: 445
    Originally posted by madazz

    Man you guys frickin love day time drama shows I bet.

     

    Look how much time you guys are wasting on something that nearly all of you couldn't care less about beforehand. This is a game, that even if launched, would have closed within a year, and it would have never even become remotely popular, but like art, once its dead its more valuable. 

    Talking about game industry scams and watching fan boys and girls circle the drain with the sinking ships they helped build, are often more fun than actually playing an mmo. I think the realm of MMO is heading for a correction, kind of like we see with the stock market every now and then. Basically the industry is going to implode and hopefully we will start a new with some better quality and fresh ideas.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,575
    Kickstarter scared me from day 1....It just doesnt make any sense....I'm going to give some unknopwn company money for something that may or may not ever see the light of day and I get little or nothing in return?...Are gamers just that hard up for anything resembling a game or just that easily parted from their money?
  • MyobiMyobi Member UncommonPosts: 63

    "If you actually bothered than you will find out that it was actually me that offered $250. What have you done? I'm also sorry to inform you but I didn't back greedmonger or indeed I WOULD have started a case myself."

    True, I didn’t bother going back to check who was actually doing the offer, yet it’s not like you are in much of a position to complain about it, are you? Since you are also here criticizing something that you also didn’t bothered to properly get to know.

    Still to answer your question, I haven’t done anything and neither am I planning to, it’s not my problem, it’s their own money mate, they are responsible for it, if they want to throw it at everyone around the internet that makes them a couple of promises, it’s up to them. Also, if you were the one who made the proposal you should be aware better than myself, if they can’t be arced to do anything for themselves even with your offer, why should anyone else do it for them?

    “Someone else mentioned this argument before. He used craigslist as an example of a platform. Since you bring it up, I'll give you a reply. There is an intrinsic and important difference between craigslist and kickstarter. Kickstarter is getting it's revenue directly from the failure of a project, whether the intent of the project was righteous or not. Craigslist does not. It gets it's revenue from advertisements and page clicks. Don't think that's an important difference?”

    Doesn’t matter, it’s irrelevant. My point is that not doing something because it supposedly “allows” someone to exploit it for their own personal gain it’s just beyond silly, just because there are other services that you find to be more “fair” due whatever reason, won’t change that.


    “I'm giving my opinions on a forum, if you don't like my opinion I'm sure it's convenient to call it twisting.”, “I didn't claim anything. I said that the stats page if useless, because those numbers only show, as you say as well, how many projects are successfully funded. But successful funding does not equal success of a project. A successful project should be when the project gets delivered.”

    I believe in the middle of so much nitpick one of us got a little confused here.

    Because that is exactly my point, successful funding and successful project are 2 really different things, yet you clearly stated that ACCORDING to KICKSTARTER Greed Monger is a SUCCESSFUL PROJECT, where did they say that? As far as I know all they have in the website is that Greed Monger accomplished their funding goal, therefore, they had a SUCCESSFUL FUNDING o.O;

    “Source, Source, You going to quote the same source I guess?”

    Nope, I’m not providing you any sources, for a very simple reason, you might notice the “we get it”, as in, what me and possibility other users in the forum are interpreting from some of your own posts, you know, things such as saying that Kickstarter isn’t being clear in the consequences towards project creators & backers, Kickstarter should be paying the backers for project creators failures, that Kickstarter is allowing frauds to make a profit from… if that’s not the case, then I apologize, but hey, at least I didn’t say that “according” to you Kickstarter sucks balls or something along the lines ;)

     

    Anyway, don’t get me wrong! I’m not really here to defend Kickstarter, I’m not really into it myself for my own reasons, sure I can’t ignore some of the really positive results from it, still I fully agree that there is space for improvement and all, but they are pretty clear how the system works and the risks you take, as a user you agree upon those terms, if you don’t read them or pay enough attention is not their fault, thus it doesn’t matter if any of us find it fair or not, from the moment they freely agree upon them, it’s their own damn responsibility… that simple. 

     

    Originally posted by Theocritus
    Kickstarter scared me from day 1....It just doesnt make any sense....I'm going to give some unknopwn company money for something that may or may not ever see the light of day and I get little or nothing in return?...Are gamers just that hard up for anything resembling a game or just that easily parted from their money?

    It's just like charity mate, Kickstart is just a bridge between developers and backers, there are some great projects out there that can’t get the funds for development, thus they request peoples charity for it, in return, some of those projects rewards you depending on how much you helped them if successful. It’s one of the reasons why Greed Monger managed to get all that money,  some people seen the rewards as a way to profit in the future, instead of charity they tried to turn it into a way to make business, obviously didn’t go so well…

    By that I mean, if I’m not mistaken (correct me if I’m wrong) Greed Monger was rewarding backers with “land plots”, they were supposedly going to be limited and players would need them to build shit on… if I remember well, Ultima Online had a similar system, what happened is that a couple of players rushed buying all the plots and then sold them for insane amounts of money, I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the backers were aiming for this with Greed Monger.

    PS.: Some highly known people in many of these projects, they are not all a bunch of “unknown” bunch of online people :P

  • MightykingMightyking Member UncommonPosts: 235
    Originally posted by Myobi

     then I apologize

     

    Because that is exactly my point, successful funding and successful project are 2 really different things, yet you clearly stated that ACCORDING to KICKSTARTER Greed Monger is a SUCCESSFUL PROJECT, where did they say that? As far as I know all they have in the website is that Greed Monger accomplished their funding goal, therefore, they had a SUCCESSFUL FUNDING o.O;

    NP we're cool.

    If you look at your stat page you see that all numbers are about funded projects, number of backers, how much money was donated, etc. But Kickstarter has no idea how many projects actually get finished. Because they don't ask the project leaders to tell them when they actually deliver. If they can't tell which projects actually deliver the success rates of their projects is lower than what they claim.

    Let's hope it's not 99% failed projects, but probably noone knows, as long as Kickstarter doesn't change its policy and require project managers to give this info back.

     

This discussion has been closed.