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Why PFO Matters

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  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685
    Originally posted by Burntvet

    Personally, I am tired about hearing how every game is going to be "the next big thing" only to have something incomplete/broken/unfinished hit the market. And I am tired to death about hearing about "potential". If something is "potentially good", that means it sucks now.

    If a company wants my money, they can put out a "finished" product that is good. Twice as much when they are charging a sub fee + box price (which I personally have no problem paying).

    But the days when I (and a lot of other people, I think) will accept paying full price for half a game, are pretty much over at this point.

    They are no longer called the "wow killer".  It shifted to "the next big thing".  image

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,054
    Originally posted by observer
    Originally posted by Burntvet

    Personally, I am tired about hearing how every game is going to be "the next big thing" only to have something incomplete/broken/unfinished hit the market. And I am tired to death about hearing about "potential". If something is "potentially good", that means it sucks now.

    If a company wants my money, they can put out a "finished" product that is good. Twice as much when they are charging a sub fee + box price (which I personally have no problem paying).

    But the days when I (and a lot of other people, I think) will accept paying full price for half a game, are pretty much over at this point.

    They are no longer called the "wow killer".  It shifted to "the next big thing".  image

    Absolutely... and they also tell you why THIS game matters and how important it is that it succeed.  Every game has it's small core of "Evangelists" that convince themselves that the resounding criticism on their game is caused by a handful of sock puppet accounts.   It's great fun to watch (see Mortal Online for a game with great similarities in development and in trajectory).

    Some games are just tailor made to provide more fun on forums than they ever will in game...

     

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    [mod edit]

    What he said. (Although I don't mind paying a sub for a finished game, which this most assuredly is not.)

    The thing I don't get, is why this game is largely centered around PvP, when the pen and paper game was almost exclusively PvE. That strikes me as rather nonsensical, if you were trying to get Pathfinder fans to play/pay for this thing.

  • BringsliteBringslite Member UncommonPosts: 75

    So that's a yes.

    Thank you for answering.

    No more "BOX" fee. Free 15 day trials at: goblinworks.com/download/
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  • BluddwolfBluddwolf Member UncommonPosts: 355

    I agree with Slapshot about the title of this thread.  PFO does not matter, and certainly not for the reason the OP seems to believe.  

    PFO is simply another MMO trying to be the "next moderate sized thing" who initial marketing (Dev Blog descriptions) had great promise, but missteps along the way have hindered it.  

    Ryan Dancey has a grand vision, but has lost sight of the mid-game and lost sight of the promise of what PFO was advertised to be as opposed to its trajectory.  

    I do not write this in a mean spirited way, and I sincerely hope that PFO will be successful.  He recently wrote a PM response to be where he felt I was posting at a "crossed purpose", and that might be fair enough even if unintentional.  The marketing and development of PFO has also suffered from a "crossed purpose", and if he does not recognize that it might be all for naught.

    PFO is suffering due to its lack of sense of scale.  This idea is not my own, but from another poster, but it could not be more clearly correct.   In layman's terms it simply means:

    Systems are being implemented that require a large population to work properly, before the large population exists.

    Goblin Works seems to be leapfrogging over the mid-sized population game elements, and jumping right into end game aspects of full player, company, settlement integration and participation (chores).

    That brings up a second misstep, and I'm certain Ryan won't agree, but the proof is in the numbers and in player behavior thus far.  The Company (Guild) is the social building block of player interaction, not the settlement.  The fact that companies have moved from one settlement to another, as a unit, is proof positive that the player base views a settlement as a location and not the nexus of all social interaction.  

    This too is a mid-sized / mid-game issue.  Tying players to settlements by limiting their access to skills already paid for is perhaps the greatest of missteps.  Trying to force social structures has not worked.  Whole settlements launched dormant.  A great majority have failed or are hanging by a thread (being supported by just a few, dedicated players).  Very few (less than 10) have even moderately thrived and some of those (at least one that i know of) lost its entire company of active players. The end game grind of supporting a settlement has become "the game" and looking to just play with a group of friends has become secondary.

    THIS IS RECOVERABLE!!

    The benefit of the game being in this early stage of development is that its systems can be changed, removed or added to.  The much more change would be for a change in at least a few aspects of the vision for the game.  To continue to cling onto something that has clearly not generated the numbers needed for a viable product is just not going to turn out well.

    Focus on company level game play.  Maybe even change that training caps to be company based, based on company influence (max score).  

    I am going to continue to advocate that players from outside of PFO, give the game a try, but I'm going to encourage them to focus on company level interaction and not thrust upon them the chores / time sink of supporting a settlement as if it is our "state of being".  

     

     

     

     

     

    Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,054

    Pretty much agree with most of what you say Bludd.  Another thing I would add though:

     

    Charging a Box Price + Sub + cash shop for a game in it's current state (Ryan can call it Early Enrollment or whatever he likes, we know what it is) is at a CROSSED PURPOSE of a game needing a high population to work properly.

     

     

     

     

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • grimalgrimal Member UncommonPosts: 2,907
    In light of the recruitment links posted, doesn't this just make the whole OP an advertisement?
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,054
    Originally posted by grimal
    In light of the recruitment links posted, doesn't this just make the whole OP an advertisement?

    That, and the fact that it was directed by the CEO/Marketing guy... yeah obviously so image

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • wmmarcellinowmmarcellino Member UncommonPosts: 94
    Originally posted by grimal
    In light of the recruitment links posted, doesn't this just make the whole OP an advertisement?

    The entire point of me arguing that this game has important potential for reforming MMOs as a genre, ensuring readers had a realistic and accurate sense of the game's current drawbacks, and then asking some of them to consider joining us, was indeed in the hope that some people would join us.  

    So no, it does not constitute an advertisement--I'm not engaged in commerce--but it does constitute a clear, transparent argument.

    Do the RIGHT THING: come be a Paladin with us! http://ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com/

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,054
    Originally posted by wmmarcellino

    Originally posted by grimal
    In light of the recruitment links posted, doesn't this just make the whole OP an advertisement?

    The entire point of me arguing that this game has important potential for reforming MMOs as a genre, ensuring readers had a realistic and accurate sense of the game's current drawbacks, and then asking some of them to consider joining us, was indeed in the hope that some people would join us.  

    So no, it does not constitute an advertisement--I'm not engaged in commerce--but it does constitute a clear, transparent argument.

     

    When you ask the CEO where you should post this. He tells you. And you then do so. It is unarguably a form of advertising.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

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  • wmmarcellinowmmarcellino Member UncommonPosts: 94
    Originally posted by Slapshot1188
    Originally posted by wmmarcellino
    Originally posted by grimal
    In light of the recruitment links posted, doesn't this just make the whole OP an advertisement?

    The entire point of me arguing that this game has important potential for reforming MMOs as a genre, ensuring readers had a realistic and accurate sense of the game's current drawbacks, and then asking some of them to consider joining us, was indeed in the hope that some people would join us.  

    So no, it does not constitute an advertisement--I'm not engaged in commerce--but it does constitute a clear, transparent argument.

     

    When you ask the CEO where you should post this. He tells you. And you then do so. It is unarguably a form of advertising.

    Look Andius,  you have every right as a private citizen to forum lurk at Goblinworks, and then post at every site you can find about the terrible, very bad, awful evils of PFO.  

    And I have every right as someone who enjoys the game, and sees how it could be a huge step forward in reforming the genre, to argue for its merit.  I'm doing so with clear analysis, supported with warranted grounds, and am doing so ethically by acknowledging uncertainty about the game and the many limits/problems of the current game client.  You can't stop me, and really, other than spite, how could you possibly justify objecting to someone sharing their thoughts on a game, at a gaming site?

    I offered a very clear, detailed description and analysis of the game and it's implications.  By all means object, offer a contrasting opinion, share your detailed, thoughtful analysis if you choose to.  That's a very adult position.  Just being pissed at me at, and trying to insult me and impugn isn't adult conduct.

    Do the RIGHT THING: come be a Paladin with us! http://ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com/

  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    I believe that PFO is going to be my fantasy go-to game once it is finished. It's a long way from that, but I recognize the elements I like even through the construction scaffolding.
    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • wmmarcellinowmmarcellino Member UncommonPosts: 94
    Originally posted by Archlyte
    I believe that PFO is going to be my fantasy go-to game once it is finished. It's a long way from that, but I recognize the elements I like even through the construction scaffolding.

    I think that's well said.  There is a lot of work that needs to be done, but you can see where they are headed.

    Do the RIGHT THING: come be a Paladin with us! http://ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com/

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  • wmmarcellinowmmarcellino Member UncommonPosts: 94
    Originally posted by grimal
    Why is this thread allowed to still go on?  Shoudn't it be locked since it goes against the ToS?

    This is a good example of uncivil behavior--instead of trying to engage with different opinions, trying to silence them.  Regardless of how you feel about this particular game, no one benefits from uncivil behavior.

    Do the RIGHT THING: come be a Paladin with us! http://ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com/

  • wmmarcellinowmmarcellino Member UncommonPosts: 94

    I've posted a detailed, thoughtful and lengthy description and analysis of PFOs current client, including it's current state, potential, and also drawbacks/limitations.  You keep spamming this thread (and others) over and over again with off-topic accusations and hijacks.  I would like to be able to have a civil discussion about the game itself, and not be harassed by you online.

    You are topic hijacking, trolling, and flaming--all of which is uncivil and inappropriate.  Please direct your comments to the game and it's substance, instead of me or my motivations.

    Do the RIGHT THING: come be a Paladin with us! http://ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com/

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,054
    Originally posted by wmmarcellino
    Originally posted by Slapshot1188
    Originally posted by wmmarcellino
    Originally posted by grimal
    In light of the recruitment links posted, doesn't this just make the whole OP an advertisement?

    The entire point of me arguing that this game has important potential for reforming MMOs as a genre, ensuring readers had a realistic and accurate sense of the game's current drawbacks, and then asking some of them to consider joining us, was indeed in the hope that some people would join us.  

    So no, it does not constitute an advertisement--I'm not engaged in commerce--but it does constitute a clear, transparent argument.

     

    When you ask the CEO where you should post this. He tells you. And you then do so. It is unarguably a form of advertising.

    Look Andius,  you have every right as a private citizen to forum lurk at Goblinworks, and then post at every site you can find about the terrible, very bad, awful evils of PFO.  

    And I have every right as someone who enjoys the game, and sees how it could be a huge step forward in reforming the genre, to argue for its merit.  I'm doing so with clear analysis, supported with warranted grounds, and am doing so ethically by acknowledging uncertainty about the game and the many limits/problems of the current game client.  You can't stop me, and really, other than spite, how could you possibly justify objecting to someone sharing their thoughts on a game, at a gaming site?

    I offered a very clear, detailed description and analysis of the game and it's implications.  By all means object, offer a contrasting opinion, share your detailed, thoughtful analysis if you choose to.  That's a very adult position.  Just being pissed at me at, and trying to insult me and impugn isn't adult conduct.

    I believe you misquoted, but who wants to stop you from posting?  Your posts and those of a few others are highly entertaining.  The very LAST thing i would want to do is censor them...    but I will reiterate, if you think PFO is "a huge step forward in reforming the genre" you couldn't be more off base, at least in my opinion.  

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • BluddwolfBluddwolf Member UncommonPosts: 355
    Originally posted by wmmarcellino

    I've posted a detailed, thoughtful and lengthy description and analysis of PFOs current client, including it's current state, potential, and also drawbacks/limitations.  

    I have done the same and my post has been largely ignored, although Slapshot wrote that he mostly agreed with it.

    As far as providing constructive criticism, it is not enough to say where things are now and how they are not where they are intended to be in the future, but it should also point of where the overall vision may need to be altered.  There is nothing wrong with changing elements of the vision if it will potentially lead to a product that more will be interested in playing.  

     

    Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....

  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 8,921

    I tried to watch a video of this game and only lasted about 10 seconds. Pathfinder Online does not matter at all.

  • wmmarcellinowmmarcellino Member UncommonPosts: 94

    Bluddwolf, I missed your post, but just went back and read it.  I think it's a really good post--substantive, you give grounds to support your claims, and I think there's potential merit to your critique.  It's exactly the kind of civil, on-topic discussion I'm want here.  My version would be something like "They've put in systems for the population they want, not what they have."

    It's easier to miss that kind of meaningful contribution when a small handful of people keep cluttering every thread with the same trolling/attack posts over and over again.

    Do the RIGHT THING: come be a Paladin with us! http://ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com/

  • grimalgrimal Member UncommonPosts: 2,907

    Nvm

     

  • BrenicsBrenics Member RarePosts: 1,939

    After all that reading so far it looks am taking this off my watch list. Unless they open a 14 day trial so possible buyers can check out the game to see exactly how good or bad it is.

    I know one thing after reading this thread it is scaring me off.

    I'm not perfect but I'm always myself!

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    4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.

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  • wmmarcellinowmmarcellino Member UncommonPosts: 94
    Originally posted by Brenics

    After all that reading so far it looks am taking this off my watch list. Unless they open a 14 day trial so possible buyers can check out the game to see exactly how good or bad it is.

    I know one thing after reading this thread it is scaring me off.

    They have a 15-day trial so possible buyers can check out the game to see exactly how good or bad it is.  Would you like one?

    Do the RIGHT THING: come be a Paladin with us! http://ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com/

  • BringsliteBringslite Member UncommonPosts: 75

    Four things:

    #1 You can go straight here and get a free trial. goblinworks.com/download There are no more buddy keys,

    #2 If you are intrigued by what you learn in game about it's potential, or you just plain like it, GW has dropped the "box" cost requirement.

    #3 Please get hooked up with an active group. Give the game a fair examination. Make the most out of your 15 days.

    #4 Definitely contact Ozem's Vigil and spend a few days with us. ;)

    No more "BOX" fee. Free 15 day trials at: goblinworks.com/download/
    Ozem's Vigil: The largest force for Holy Justice in the River Kingdoms.
    Are You Ready to Smite Evil?
    ozemsvigil.guildlaunch.com

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