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WildStar supposedly going F2P with sub in August

Comments

  • KumaponKumapon Member RarePosts: 1,233

    Sure looks to be legit, that is a W2 (tax fourm) from Carbine from him (with name/personal info blocked out).


    Ncsoft must be pulling their hair out that he's spilling the beans early. Yay for him spilling some insider info, but very unprofessional. Going to cause some headaches for the Carbine team now.

  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 726

    Interesting. Seems odd that Carbine themselves aren't having this conversation.

    Definitely not good press, IMO.

  • d_20d_20 Member RarePosts: 1,878

    "I truly believe we have a great game but we got buried under TERRIBLE leadership, egotistic decision makers, and poor communication. I think we can bounce back to at least a somewhat respectable level though, that much I am very confident about."

     

    That is a great summary. I also believe WildStar is a great game, but I have no idea why they marketed the game to hardcore raiders, since everyone knows they make up a very small part of any mmorpg community.


  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 726

    What's funnier than this guy trying to provide "inside" information is the amount of delusion about not going F2P/B2P on the official forums.

  • WarlyxWarlyx Member RarePosts: 2,855
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor

    What's funnier than this guy trying to provide "inside" information is the amount of delusion about not going F2P/B2P on the official forums.

    yeah WS players have been in denial for months and Carbine isnt helping ...

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by d_20

    "I truly believe we have a great game but we got buried under TERRIBLE leadership, egotistic decision makers, and poor communication. I think we can bounce back to at least a somewhat respectable level though, that much I am very confident about."

     

    That is a great summary. I also believe WildStar is a great game, but I have no idea why they marketed the game to hardcore raiders, since everyone knows they make up a very small part of any mmorpg community.

    they went with theory that there would be small core of hardcore players and there would be hordes of casuals admiring those hardcores in hope they could be them one day.

    Yes, it sounds absurd but it was theory that was up there few years ago, and its just a summary, it had points of arguments why its "true"

    Ill quote myself from few years back: "are you nuts? go take your medicine" :)

  • KaladinKaladin Member Posts: 468
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor

    What's funnier than this guy trying to provide "inside" information is the amount of delusion about not going F2P/B2P on the official forums.

    I think you have the definition of "delusion" backward here.  There is no verifiable evidence of the game changing it's business model (that reddit poster was outed as an untrustworthy source).  And people have been saying it's going F2P since the betas.  The fact that it hasn't changed, and there isn't anything official saying that it will change, is my evidence for the payment model not changing.

    Your only evidence is an untrustworthy source, and random forum posters willing it to got F2P so they can point at the game being a failure because it isn't their perfect game.

     

    If something official comes out from Carbine, I will then believe it.  I don't have a problem if they do or don't, but I refuse to speculate about something based on bad/no evidence.

    I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
    And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
    Hurt - Wars

  • KaladinKaladin Member Posts: 468
    Originally posted by d_20

    "I truly believe we have a great game but we got buried under TERRIBLE leadership, egotistic decision makers, and poor communication. I think we can bounce back to at least a somewhat respectable level though, that much I am very confident about."

     

    That is a great summary. I also believe WildStar is a great game, but I have no idea why they marketed the game to hardcore raiders, since everyone knows they make up a very small part of any mmorpg community.

     

    That is correct, and it also makes up a small part of Wildstar.  They just put that perception out there in their Raidz video.  If you want to do the 20 man raids, they are difficult.  All else is quite casual I can assure you.

     

    Yes, the attunement process sucked, but has since been shortened.  This is what bothers me, there are too many underinformed opinions.

    I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
    And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
    Hurt - Wars

  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 726
    Originally posted by Kaladin
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor

    What's funnier than this guy trying to provide "inside" information is the amount of delusion about not going F2P/B2P on the official forums.

    I think you have the definition of "delusion" backward here.  There is no verifiable evidence of the game changing it's business model (that reddit poster was outed as an untrustworthy source).  And people have been saying it's going F2P since the betas.  The fact that it hasn't changed, and there isn't anything official saying that it will change, is my evidence for the payment model not changing.

    Your only evidence is an untrustworthy source, and random forum posters willing it to got F2P so they can point at the game being a failure because it isn't their perfect game.

     

    If something official comes out from Carbine, I will then believe it.  I don't have a problem if they do or don't, but I refuse to speculate about something based on bad/no evidence.

    The evidence is consistently losing sales every quarter, and being down to only 40-50k subs in less than a year.

    Don't need much more evidence than that.

    However, there's also Steam listing the game as F2P as evidence, and claims by an employee who apparently works for Carbine.

    That's more than enough to draw an educated guess that it's going F2P/B2P.

    Your only evidence is sticking your head in the sand and pretending nothing is wrong.

  • KaladinKaladin Member Posts: 468
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor
    Originally posted by Kaladin
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor

    What's funnier than this guy trying to provide "inside" information is the amount of delusion about not going F2P/B2P on the official forums.

    I think you have the definition of "delusion" backward here.  There is no verifiable evidence of the game changing it's business model (that reddit poster was outed as an untrustworthy source).  And people have been saying it's going F2P since the betas.  The fact that it hasn't changed, and there isn't anything official saying that it will change, is my evidence for the payment model not changing.

    Your only evidence is an untrustworthy source, and random forum posters willing it to got F2P so they can point at the game being a failure because it isn't their perfect game.

     

    If something official comes out from Carbine, I will then believe it.  I don't have a problem if they do or don't, but I refuse to speculate about something based on bad/no evidence.

    The evidence is consistently losing sales every quarter, and being down to only 40-50k subs in less than a year.

    Don't need much more evidence than that.

    However, there's also Steam listing the game as F2P as evidence, and claims by an employee who apparently works for Carbine.

    That's more than enough to draw an educated guess that it's going F2P/B2P.

    Your only evidence is sticking your head in the sand and pretending nothing is wrong.

    The Reddit post was flagged as untrustworthy by Reddit mods.  His evidence supplied to them was insufficient, and he has been shadow banned.

    Low subs isn't evidence of F2P, Darkfall has low population, and still has a subcription.

    I'm not at home so I can't check Steam right now, if I can see it from someone that isn't the former Reddit poster, that would at least be something.

    It's not head in the sand.  It's simply not believing something on little/no evidence.  This has nothing to do with whether it does or does not go F2P, I just don't have a good reason to believe it will at this point with what we know to be true.

    I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
    And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
    Hurt - Wars

  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 726
    Originally posted by Kaladin
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor
    Originally posted by Kaladin
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor

    What's funnier than this guy trying to provide "inside" information is the amount of delusion about not going F2P/B2P on the official forums.

    I think you have the definition of "delusion" backward here.  There is no verifiable evidence of the game changing it's business model (that reddit poster was outed as an untrustworthy source).  And people have been saying it's going F2P since the betas.  The fact that it hasn't changed, and there isn't anything official saying that it will change, is my evidence for the payment model not changing.

    Your only evidence is an untrustworthy source, and random forum posters willing it to got F2P so they can point at the game being a failure because it isn't their perfect game.

     

    If something official comes out from Carbine, I will then believe it.  I don't have a problem if they do or don't, but I refuse to speculate about something based on bad/no evidence.

    The evidence is consistently losing sales every quarter, and being down to only 40-50k subs in less than a year.

    Don't need much more evidence than that.

    However, there's also Steam listing the game as F2P as evidence, and claims by an employee who apparently works for Carbine.

    That's more than enough to draw an educated guess that it's going F2P/B2P.

    Your only evidence is sticking your head in the sand and pretending nothing is wrong.

    The Reddit post was flagged as untrustworthy by Reddit mods.  His evidence supplied to them was insufficient, and he has been shadow banned.

    Low subs isn't evidence of F2P, Darkfall has low population, and still has a subcription.

    I'm not at home so I can't check Steam right now, if I can see it from someone that isn't the former Reddit poster, that would at least be something.

    It's not head in the sand.  It's simply not believing something on little/no evidence.  This has nothing to do with whether it does or does not go F2P, I just don't have a good reason to believe it will at this point with what we know to be true.

    Darkfall is made by an indie studio with a low budget.

    Wildstar is a AAA mmo backed by a large budget and company, with profits and recouping costs in mind.

    Apples and oranges.

    NCsoft has also outright CLOSED games (CoH, AA, TR, etc) that aren't performing "well enough" and changed games to F2P to correct that (CoH, AA, Aion, etc).

    It is sticking your head in the sand and ignoring facts/evidence.

    You've claimed month after month that Wildstar is "doing fine and gaining subs everyday!" and the facts completely debunk that claim. You still continue believing that the game is "doing fine". In the face of facts/evidence, you ignore them.

    That's "delusional".

    Tell me, what evidence and facts do you have in support of the game not changing to F2P/B2P?

  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,002
    YA! another piss poor MMO going F2P to make money instead of shutting down which is going to negatively effect the MMO genera.  Why does it negatively effect MMOs?  Because it pushes MMOs to spend more time on Cash Shop and Nickle and Dime people to death vs making good in game content.  Its a bunch of BS, if you do not make it as a sub MMO shut down.
  • KaladinKaladin Member Posts: 468
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor
    Originally posted by Kaladin
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor
    Originally posted by Kaladin
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor

    What's funnier than this guy trying to provide "inside" information is the amount of delusion about not going F2P/B2P on the official forums.

    I think you have the definition of "delusion" backward here.  There is no verifiable evidence of the game changing it's business model (that reddit poster was outed as an untrustworthy source).  And people have been saying it's going F2P since the betas.  The fact that it hasn't changed, and there isn't anything official saying that it will change, is my evidence for the payment model not changing.

    Your only evidence is an untrustworthy source, and random forum posters willing it to got F2P so they can point at the game being a failure because it isn't their perfect game.

     

    If something official comes out from Carbine, I will then believe it.  I don't have a problem if they do or don't, but I refuse to speculate about something based on bad/no evidence.

    The evidence is consistently losing sales every quarter, and being down to only 40-50k subs in less than a year.

    Don't need much more evidence than that.

    However, there's also Steam listing the game as F2P as evidence, and claims by an employee who apparently works for Carbine.

    That's more than enough to draw an educated guess that it's going F2P/B2P.

    Your only evidence is sticking your head in the sand and pretending nothing is wrong.

    The Reddit post was flagged as untrustworthy by Reddit mods.  His evidence supplied to them was insufficient, and he has been shadow banned.

    Low subs isn't evidence of F2P, Darkfall has low population, and still has a subcription.

    I'm not at home so I can't check Steam right now, if I can see it from someone that isn't the former Reddit poster, that would at least be something.

    It's not head in the sand.  It's simply not believing something on little/no evidence.  This has nothing to do with whether it does or does not go F2P, I just don't have a good reason to believe it will at this point with what we know to be true.

    Darkfall is made by an indie studio with a low budget.

    Wildstar is a AAA mmo backed by a large budget and company, with profits and recouping costs in mind.

    Apples and oranges.

    NCsoft has also outright CLOSED games (CoH, AA, TR, etc) that aren't performing "well enough" and changed games to F2P to correct that (CoH, AA, Aion, etc).

    It is sticking your head in the sand and ignoring facts/evidence.

    You've claimed month after month that Wildstar is "doing fine and gaining subs everyday!" and the facts completely debunk that claim. You still continue believing that the game is "doing fine". In the face of facts/evidence, you ignore them.

    That's "delusional".

    Tell me, what evidence and facts do you have in support of the game not changing to F2P/B2P?

    I have never ignored facts.

    Now that we HAVE facts about the subscription numbers.  Talk to anybody in the game and they will tell you that the population certainly looked to be on the rise.  There are a number of factors that would have led people that play the game to believe the population was increasing, while it actually was not.  We just had zero facts that it wasn't increasing.  I'll eat my words if I did say that it was gaining subscriptions and was wrong.  But I could justify that low sales AND increase in population would be possible in Wildstar.

    Example 1:  Returning player, already bought the game, used a 10 day free trial, bought credd that was sold on Q4 2014's report.  Additional player, no additional revenue allocated to this report.

    Example 2: 10 day free trial accounts.

    Regardless, the sales numbers are alarming, there is no way to shake it.

     

    "Tell me, what evidence and facts do you have in support of the game not changing to F2P/B2P?"

    I could get philosophical about this, but I don't have the inclination to get into that kind of debate.

    I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
    And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
    Hurt - Wars

  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,858
    Originally posted by Kaladin
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor
    Originally posted by Kaladin
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor
    Originally posted by Kaladin
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor

    What's funnier than this guy trying to provide "inside" information is the amount of delusion about not going F2P/B2P on the official forums.

    I think you have the definition of "delusion" backward here.  There is no verifiable evidence of the game changing it's business model (that reddit poster was outed as an untrustworthy source).  And people have been saying it's going F2P since the betas.  The fact that it hasn't changed, and there isn't anything official saying that it will change, is my evidence for the payment model not changing.

    Your only evidence is an untrustworthy source, and random forum posters willing it to got F2P so they can point at the game being a failure because it isn't their perfect game.

     

    If something official comes out from Carbine, I will then believe it.  I don't have a problem if they do or don't, but I refuse to speculate about something based on bad/no evidence.

    The evidence is consistently losing sales every quarter, and being down to only 40-50k subs in less than a year.

    Don't need much more evidence than that.

    However, there's also Steam listing the game as F2P as evidence, and claims by an employee who apparently works for Carbine.

    That's more than enough to draw an educated guess that it's going F2P/B2P.

    Your only evidence is sticking your head in the sand and pretending nothing is wrong.

    The Reddit post was flagged as untrustworthy by Reddit mods.  His evidence supplied to them was insufficient, and he has been shadow banned.

    Low subs isn't evidence of F2P, Darkfall has low population, and still has a subcription.

    I'm not at home so I can't check Steam right now, if I can see it from someone that isn't the former Reddit poster, that would at least be something.

    It's not head in the sand.  It's simply not believing something on little/no evidence.  This has nothing to do with whether it does or does not go F2P, I just don't have a good reason to believe it will at this point with what we know to be true.

    Darkfall is made by an indie studio with a low budget.

    Wildstar is a AAA mmo backed by a large budget and company, with profits and recouping costs in mind.

    Apples and oranges.

    NCsoft has also outright CLOSED games (CoH, AA, TR, etc) that aren't performing "well enough" and changed games to F2P to correct that (CoH, AA, Aion, etc).

    It is sticking your head in the sand and ignoring facts/evidence.

    You've claimed month after month that Wildstar is "doing fine and gaining subs everyday!" and the facts completely debunk that claim. You still continue believing that the game is "doing fine". In the face of facts/evidence, you ignore them.

    That's "delusional".

    Tell me, what evidence and facts do you have in support of the game not changing to F2P/B2P?

    I have never ignored facts.

    Now that we HAVE facts about the subscription numbers.  Talk to anybody in the game and they will tell you that the population certainly looked to be on the rise.  There are a number of factors that would have led people that play the game to believe the population was increasing, while it actually was not.  We just had zero facts that it wasn't increasing.  I'll eat my words if I did say that it was gaining subscriptions and was wrong.  But I could justify that low sales AND increase in population would be possible in Wildstar.

    Example 1:  Returning player, already bought the game, used a 10 day free trial, bought credd that was sold on Q4 2014's report.  Additional player, no additional revenue allocated to this report.

    Example 2: 10 day free trial accounts.

    Regardless, the sales numbers are alarming, there is no way to shake it.

     

    "Tell me, what evidence and facts do you have in support of the game not changing to F2P/B2P?"

    I could get philosophical about this, but I don't have the inclination to get into that kind of debate.

    I can verify this. I have been resubbed for around a month and the player count in Illum has gradually increased. 

     

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • RusqueRusque Member RarePosts: 2,780
    Originally posted by Skuall
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor

    What's funnier than this guy trying to provide "inside" information is the amount of delusion about not going F2P/B2P on the official forums.

    yeah WS players have been in denial for months and Carbine isnt helping ...

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, fanboys ruin games. There is no more surefire way to destroy your game than by listening to fanboys.

  • grimalgrimal Member UncommonPosts: 2,907
    Originally posted by Rusque
    Originally posted by Skuall
    Originally posted by EponyxDamor

    What's funnier than this guy trying to provide "inside" information is the amount of delusion about not going F2P/B2P on the official forums.

    yeah WS players have been in denial for months and Carbine isnt helping ...

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, fanboys ruin games. There is no more surefire way to destroy your game than by listening to fanboys.

    Solely listening to either extreme is not helpful. 

  • ZapzapZapzap Member UncommonPosts: 224
    Originally posted by d_20

    "I truly believe we have a great game but we got buried under TERRIBLE leadership, egotistic decision makers, and poor communication. I think we can bounce back to at least a somewhat respectable level though, that much I am very confident about."

     

    That is a great summary. I also believe WildStar is a great game, but I have no idea why they marketed the game to hardcore raiders, since everyone knows they make up a very small part of any mmorpg community.

    Making the game for hardcore raiders was not the problem.  Gaffney was right when he said that when the hardcore leave a game all the lemmings follow suit and leave.  The problem with Wildstar was the game was released unfinished  with nothing to do at endgame other than raid.  The game released and within 24 hours people were hitting level 50.  Within a week most people were level 50 and there was little to do other an hour of dailies per day.  It was a very rushed and poorly done endgame.  The promise form Carbine was that the endgame would be finished and properly tested.  Neither happened.  The game was rushed out.  Contrast to this to Rift which released with a very well done, tested and finished endgame.  Rift did very well for over a year actually growing quite a bit between the botched release of SWTOR and the release of GW2.  What killed Rift and led to its demise was when they casualized the raid game making it easymode causing the max exodus of raiders leading to all the lemmings otherwise known as casuals quickly leaving the game eventually resulting in the game going F2P the following year.  Wildstar had the right idea but they released a very poor and unfinished endgame.

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,677
    Originally posted by Kaladin
    Originally posted by d_20

    "I truly believe we have a great game but we got buried under TERRIBLE leadership, egotistic decision makers, and poor communication. I think we can bounce back to at least a somewhat respectable level though, that much I am very confident about."

     

    That is a great summary. I also believe WildStar is a great game, but I have no idea why they marketed the game to hardcore raiders, since everyone knows they make up a very small part of any mmorpg community.

     

    That is correct, and it also makes up a small part of Wildstar.  They just put that perception out there in their Raidz video.  If you want to do the 20 man raids, they are difficult.  All else is quite casual I can assure you.

     

    Yes, the attunement process sucked, but has since been shortened.  This is what bothers me, there are too many underinformed opinions.

    You know what they say... perception is reality. And at this point that game's reputation has suffered so badly that the F2P conversion seems likely, as it's a good business move to draw in new people who'd be unwilling to pay for "such an awful game" (whether true or not), and to get the others that weren't happy to come back and take a look at all the chances that happened since they left, without having to invest in a subscription fee to do so.

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • NightHaveNNightHaveN Member UncommonPosts: 1,050
    If remember correctly, companies do not announce F2P moves 5, 6 months or more in advance, to prevent massive drops, and keep receiving a monthly income.

    Yes numbers aren't good, and even players in game with a no to F2P posture have expressed they prefer even F2P game to Closed game.

    And if the info is true or not... who cares. Something needs to change.
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