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does Crowfall struggle with setting and target audience?

arcundoarcundo Member UncommonPosts: 88

Its early in development, but do you think Crowfall is sure what the target audience is for this game. I am not typing this this to critize since of course Crowfall is free make the game they enjoy the most.

Here is what I have read/seen that goes in opposite directions:

PvP rules (strict):

Caters to typically a bit more experienced and obviously PvP oriented playstyle (mature audience)

Artistic Style:

While there are clearly big talents doing this job it seems to me that they here go for a typical GW2 audience (Azura style creatures and cartoony look). The type you do not want to PvP against, just PvE with. Also it does not seem decided wether they are going for a serious or funny style. From what is said in the vid it seems that funny style is focused on. This can be seen on some of the characters. It would say this points to young audience and not older audience.

 

Setting/Classes:

While initially it seems they went for a typical fantasy setting, the latest class name and abilities points to a more year 1900+ setting a than a medieval fantasy setting. Myself at least, I prefer setting that is either one thing or the other.

edit: I read about  the latest class, and realized that I had missed that is was a suggested class. So until a class is actually out of setting, this really isnt a point. :-)

 

Comments

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130

    They probably do the graphics like this so that we don't get them confused with real people and create a society who won't think anything of going out and killing someone. Also, with the advent of augmented reality, we'll need to be able to differentiate between what's real and what's not. Imagine if you're playing some game and a real person with a sword busted into your house (in augmented reality) and you ran to fight them and they killed you. There is probably 1 or 0.5 sword-related deaths in the US each year. That could be YOU!! Unless game developers continue to do their part by creating stylized graphics....... Unless an alien race is discovered that looks all stylized like that and run around with swords. If that's the case, then maybe realistic graphics will be more viable. I mean, lord knows, it's definitely cheaper to do graphics that way. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,139
    Originally posted by arcundo

    Its early in development

    Myself at least I prefer setting that either one thing or the other.

    I think that is more of the issue.

    We all like different things and it is entirely subjective.

    PVP mechanics and an accessible art style do not have to be mutually exclusive. 

    The design is rather adult-hardcore friendly for sure, although that shouldn't stop a "younger" gamer from joining in if they can handle it. Many of us were "young" when UO, DAoC, SB, SWG, DF etc came out and did just fine and here we are 15+ years later still doing it. While I've aged mentally/physically/financially, my inner child is a live and well.

    The game art is still a work in progress. No doubt it will further develop. Nothing about it screams hello kitty or that it is made for 5 year olds. Although I don't really know where the age line is when it comes to what "kids" like and what "adults" like. I've enjoyed a wide variety of silly to very mature content for as long as I can remember. Really wouldn't call Crowfall "funny" from what has been shown.

    If you take a look at some of the work the Crowfall artists (concept/modeling) have done, very easy to see their styles influencing the game's.

    They are also working with Unity 5, Voxel Farm, along with other tech so making it hyper realistic probably isn't an option performance wise and honestly I'm not a fan even if it was.

    My guess is they want to appeal to many types of gamers, even within the niche they are going for. Not only the 40 year old basement dwellers listening to death metal and eating kittens for dinner.

    Hopefully once they get the whole team hired (still missing a couple spots) and further work on the characters, we'll see a bit more depth added to them. Seeing 1 look for an Archetype probably isn't the best way to get a feel of it.

    But in the end it comes down to personal preference. If you can't enjoy the gameplay because of the visuals, it is what it is.

  • ApraxisApraxis Member UncommonPosts: 1,511
    Originally posted by arcundo

    Its early in development, but do you think Crowfall is sure what the target audience is for this game. I am not typing this this to critize since of course Crowfall is free make the game they enjoy the most.

    Here is what I have read/seen that goes in opposite directions:

    PvP rules (strict):

    Caters to typically a bit more experienced and obviously PvP oriented playstyle (mature audience)

    Artistic Style:

    While there are clearly big talents doing this job it seems to me that they here go for a typical GW2 audience (Azura style creatures and cartoony look). The type you do not want to PvP against, just PvE with. Also it does not seem decided wether they are going for a serious or funny style. From what is said in the vid it seems that funny style is focused on. This can be seen on some of the characters. It would say this points to young audience and not older audience.

     

    Setting/Classes:

    While initially it seems they went for a typical fantasy setting, the latest class name and abilities points to a more year 1900+ setting a than a medieval fantasy setting. Myself at least, I prefer setting that is either one thing or the other.

     

     

    About Artistic Style: Either you are not a pvper or at least not a long term pvp player. In pvp the single most important thing is very good performance.. and therefore most "good" pvp games have rather light models and in comparsion down scaled graphics. And Artistic Style usually do have better visual results with such requirements. Look at DoTA2 or any MOBA as comparsion... however, this does not mean we want Azura style artistic style. Because the azura style is the typical cute style, but it can also be more dark and still artistic (again compare Pudge from DOTA2 with Azura's in GW2). And if you look at the screenshot for me it looks darker than gw2, but still a Artistic style.

    I am ok with it.. and most pvp will be.. hell most pvp deactive any overhead anyway.. be it useless particel effects, or even shadows if you can turn it of.. and back in times in UT some even turned of all textures.

  • arcundoarcundo Member UncommonPosts: 88
    Originally posted by Apraxis
    About Artistic Style: Either you are not a pvper or at least not a long term pvp player. In pvp the single most important thing is very good performance.. and therefore most "good" pvp games have rather light models and in comparsion down scaled graphics. And Artistic Style usually do have better visual results with such requirements. Look at DoTA2 or any MOBA as comparsion... however, this does not mean we want Azura style artistic style. Because the azura style is the typical cute style, but it can also be more dark and still artistic (again compare Pudge from DOTA2 with Azura's in GW2). And if you look at the screenshot for me it looks darker than gw2, but still a Artistic style.

    [snip] be it useless particel effects, or even shadows if you can turn it of.. and back in times in UT some even turned of all textures.

    I guess wether I am a PVPer or not can be debated, but it is the part of MMO I find the most fun. Also what are considered good PvP games is somewhat subjective. I do not ask for more particle effects etc. in the graphics, and I am well aware that performance is really important, still I do not mind a more realistic art style (not necessarily in details).

    Lets go through some examples of games that is accepted among PvPers as the best MMOs for PvP: DAoC, Shadowbane, TERA (not sure if it fits the MMO criterias completly), Darkfall, EVE, Planetside 2 and in my own opinion I will mention WoW.

    Yes, Darkfall and TERA have more typical cartoonish look, but games like DAoC, Shadowbane, (AoC) and EVE have much more realistic and mature look with a cartoonish touch of course. And even more realistic is Planetside 2 (though that is a very different type of game of course). I would prefer the middle category being used for this game of course. And with computers still getting better and better it gets easier to run that category more fluent.

    The difference between Crowfall and WoW when it comes to the subject of this thread is in my opinion: Yes, there are gnomes with pink hair in WoW, but it is only a small part of the graphics style and models, while Crowfall focus more on the frst part (see next paragraph).

    I agree that the pictures is more than scary enough for me and is for a mature audience, but if you have seen the vid on the youtube channel with the graphics artist, she tends to give most models a touch of cute or funny. And some characters are designed with funny in mind from the bottom. I think that style reasons the most to a early teenager audience.  So again two things that sends opposite messages to what kind of audience they are making this game for (pictures to scary for young audience vs models for young audience)

     

     

  • HeraseHerase Member RarePosts: 993

    They know who their audience is, if people aren't going to play a game because they think the art style is for a younger audience, then that's their own problem. At the end of the day it's about the content, when companies age rate a game it's based on the content not the art style. This is something silly that gamers have got in their head, it's similar to when we were younger and thought pink is for girls and blue is for boys, when in reality it means nothing. If you don't like that kind of style, that's fine tbh.

     

    Perfect example: Conkers bad fur day

    If anyone else has played this they will know what I mean.

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536

    I'm more concerned with gameplay and creating a game that I can log in to and have something worthwhile to accomplish on a day to day basis.  Thats the real shortcoming of sandbox games.

    As for the art style, do not care.  They went with stylized graphics because they've proven to stand the test of time.  That and they resemble the most popular game on the market, so they hope to use them to attract a larger audience.


  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,141
    Originally posted by CrazKanuk

    They probably do the graphics like this so that we don't get them confused with real people and create a society who won't think anything of going out and killing someone. Also, with the advent of augmented reality, we'll need to be able to differentiate between what's real and what's not. Imagine if you're playing some game and a real person with a sword busted into your house (in augmented reality) and you ran to fight them and they killed you. There is probably 1 or 0.5 sword-related deaths in the US each year. That could be YOU!! Unless game developers continue to do their part by creating stylized graphics....... Unless an alien race is discovered that looks all stylized like that and run around with swords. If that's the case, then maybe realistic graphics will be more viable. I mean, lord knows, it's definitely cheaper to do graphics that way. 

    For me its just the opposite, killing cartoon creatures doesn't really get me going.  Its the realism in a game that makes me cautious and adds atmosphere and danger.  I'm just not really that scared of stuffed animals and Disney characters.

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  • AIMonsterAIMonster Member UncommonPosts: 2,059

    I think making the assumption that strict PvP rules cater to a more mature audience (as much as I'm looking forward to Crowfall, I'd even go as far to say the opposite is true sometimes) and a somewhat cartoonish artstyle (it's nowhere near the level of WoW or Wildstar) caters to a younger audience is just incorrect.  I don't think artstyle or ruleset preference are really determined by age/maturity level of the audience.  The only thing that might have a factor is certain artstyles and rulesets are more nostalgic for older gamers so it appeals to their need for nostalgia, but I don't think either artstyle or rulesets in this case really appeal to either.

    Plus while PvP is the core of Crowfall, it's going to have multiple rulesets to choose from with the way the plan to setup their campaign systems. 

    I don't see the game having an audience problem at all.  I think it has elements that appeal to experienced MMO PvP gamers and elements that appeal to people who never played MMOs before.  If you want to look at a game that might have an audience problem I would say something like Pathfinder Online or Pantheon would be a better example.

  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327

     

    Cigarettes were for older folks too.  Yet they used to wrap them in cartoony type marketing gimmicks to capture the younger audience, and it worked.  Get them young and you have a customer for life. 

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Oh look, a "these r kid gfx, y maek 4 adults?!?!" thread. Has it been three weeks already?

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332

    PVP:I don't know the rules but no matter i doubt they point to mature or immature,pvp is simply a VERY easy game aspect to implement that costs a developer literally nothing in resources or man power.

    Although a lot of people just want pvp or prefer it,i doubt this idea attracts passionate rpg gamers who want a complete game and not some pvp fest.

    Art style:I have yet to get a full grip for the art,sort of looks to me a bit in between cartoony and more real looking.However i have yet to see any high quality texture work but that doesn't mean a game  won't look good unless most textures have that cheap cartoony,single color look with little detail.I am not sold one way or the other until i see more.

    Having seen W101,imo the artists did a great job with cartoony,imo better than WOW in which cartoony imo just looked terrible.However art and assets have two different sides and tells a MUCH bigger story.I will keep it simple,if i see cartoony and nice structures/models/meshes then i will consider the effort was there.However if i see cartoony and buildings with no insides,no doors then i start to question weather cartoony was an art style or just a cheap way to rush a game out at low cost.

    I prefer Fantasy setting in a rpg because imo you can do a lot more ,however i could go for a modern rpg if done really well but imo would be tougher to pull off.I do however agree that classes should stay within the realm of plausibility ,i don't want to see jet skis and hover boards with daggers,swords and clubs,nor do i want Orcs with Hulk Hogan.

     

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

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