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Reputation Got You Down?

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  • BringsliteBringslite Member UncommonPosts: 75

    A few days ago, I had to kill a friend so that he could get "unstuck" from a spot. He (or maybe another that was with us) returned the favor from outside so that I could get "unstuck".

    All that were involved were at maximum reputation (+7500). Those that did the deed only lost 650 reputation. The regen rate is 30 points per hour, on or off line, provided that you don't kill anyone else for an hour or so after the last time.

    That is terribly insignificant as far as penalties go. I am not really sure if loss "scales" depending on aggressor's rep total vs. victim's rep total, or if X kills within a certain time period increase the penalty.

    It really isn't very prohibitive to get your "PK" on if you role that way.

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  • MrTinkMrTink Member Posts: 12

    It is prohibitive. People inside the game probably know that I spend a lot of my time at low reputation. It literally takes about 15 minutes of play time to go from maximum reputation to the bottom of the barrel, -7500 reputation. In an encounter where only one side goes red, which should be every PvP encounter in the game, really, massive amounts of rep can be blown through. You lose reputation for every kill you are involved in. A PvP encounter can easily add up to 25 kills.

    From -7500 reputation it takes a character ~6 days to get back up to -2500, at which point they can once again train. For the majority of characters in the game right now, that is still substantial amount of time to be away from a trainer (unless you are hardcore focusing into a role). This is even worse for newbie characters, who could easily double their relative strength in that 6 days.

    Now, the real question to ask is, is this a good thing? The reputation system as it is currently built mostly punishes new players who want to PvP. Golgotha cannot, in good conscious, bring characters younger than a month old to our PvP roams. It just isn't fair for them, when they could instead be using that XP to get into T2 gear quicker, and thus actually contribute in PvP fights. 

    Older characters don't care quite so much. Now that we can access our home settlements bank, getting access to a regular supply of consumables and replacement equipment, a week away from a trainer isn't crippling. Annoying as all hell, but not crippling. All of Golgotha basically had a to take a week long murder break, essentially stopping our primary source of enjoyment in the game, because we needed to spend the three weeks of XP we had built up (because EPow.)

    Rep definitely discourages random PvP. It doesn't completely screw over the PvPers, but trust me, without the reputation mechanic in place, there would be a whole lot more random ganking. I can say that because I would be one of the ones doing the ganking.

  • damond5031damond5031 Member UncommonPosts: 444
    Originally posted by Bringslite
    A few days ago, I had to kill a friend so that he could get "unstuck" from a spot. He (or maybe another that was with us) returned the favor from outside so that I could get "unstuck". All that were involved were at maximum reputation (+7500). Those that did the deed only lost 650 reputation. The regen rate is 30 points per hour, on or off line, provided that you don't kill anyone else for an hour or so after the last time. That is terribly insignificant as far as penalties go. I am not really sure if loss "scales" depending on aggressor's rep total vs. victim's rep total, or if X kills within a certain time period increase the penalty. It really isn't very prohibitive to get your "PK" on if you role that way.

    If you go around being a turd all day, your rep is going to take forever to get back. I don't think punishing someone heavily for one mistake was what they had in mind. 

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  • rsdanceyrsdancey Member Posts: 106

    Company Feuds which are one of the two marquee features for Early Enrollment v8 (the other being upgrading Holdings and Outposts) will provide a free-form mechanism for groups to engage in PvP without Reputation consequences.

  • Fanndis_GoldbraidFanndis_Goldbraid Member UncommonPosts: 53
    Originally posted by MrTink
    It is prohibitive. People inside the game probably know that I spend a lot of my time at low reputation. It literally takes about 15 minutes of play time to go from maximum reputation to the bottom of the barrel, -7500 reputation. In an encounter where only one side goes red, which should be every PvP encounter in the game, really, massive amounts of rep can be blown through. You lose reputation for every kill you are involved in. A PvP encounter can easily add up to 25 kills. From -7500 reputation it takes a character ~6 days to get back up to -2500, at which point they can once again train. For the majority of characters in the game right now, that is still substantial amount of time to be away from a trainer (unless you are hardcore focusing into a role). This is even worse for newbie characters, who could easily double their relative strength in that 6 days. Now, the real question to ask is, is this a good thing? The reputation system as it is currently built mostly punishes new players who want to PvP. Golgotha cannot, in good conscious, bring characters younger than a month old to our PvP roams. It just isn't fair for them, when they could instead be using that XP to get into T2 gear quicker, and thus actually contribute in PvP fights.  Older characters don't care quite so much. Now that we can access our home settlements bank, getting access to a regular supply of consumables and replacement equipment, a week away from a trainer isn't crippling. Annoying as all hell, but not crippling. All of Golgotha basically had a to take a week long murder break, essentially stopping our primary source of enjoyment in the game, because we needed to spend the three weeks of XP we had built up (because EPow.) Rep definitely discourages random PvP. It doesn't completely screw over the PvPers, but trust me, without the reputation mechanic in place, there would be a whole lot more random ganking. I can say that because I would be one of the ones doing the ganking.

    Tink performs a lot of what is called "unsanctioned" PvP. The mechanics are not in the game yet for payers to have lots of PvP without the negative consequences of player killing. I am strongly in favor of penalizing PKing in unsanctioned play, and I am also a strong supporter of players being allowed to engage in unlimited PvP under the right circumstances. Forgeholm has had some good fights attacking and defending towers (really the only sanctioned PvP activity in the game at this early date). There are ways to avoid losing reputation, but it's part of the package. Once the various other sanctioned mechanics are in with feuds, factions, and formation combat as part of settlement wars the PvP will be much more robust, and Tink and his friends can train to their hearts content.

  • KilrainKilrain Member RarePosts: 1,163
    The reputation thing sounds awesome and the length of time is adequate considering there NEEDS to be consequences preventing people from killing other players. The problem is that there needs to be places for people to go that don't affect the reputation.
     
    This is assuming there will be plenty of things put into the game for people to do that don't directly involve pvp. If not, and pvp is the only focus of the game then there is probably some balancing needing to be done. If they do put more things other than pvp, I'll be subbing again for sure.
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  • EdgeXEdgeX Member UncommonPosts: 39
    Oh god, the anti-pk mechanic is that you can no longer progress your character after a certain point of negative rep? That's probably the worst anti-pk mechanic I've heard of. And yes, I'm aware your rep goes back up, but it's still bad.
  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    It sounds like it just punishes gankers, which is not a bad thing. The most meaningless form of PvP is the lone PvP misanthrope who cannot fight except by ambush. It's never anything but annoying whereas the group PvP and bounty stuff has some purpose. I think this mechanic is great because it makes use of some consequence for just being an asshole. Real lone assholes only die once, but in games they are immortal. I love that the designers decided to have some constraints on random combat.
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  • rsdanceyrsdancey Member Posts: 106

    So far I've been very pleased with how PvP is shaping up. The big concern that we'd have a Rust-style murder sim didn't happen. Turns out that telling people that their characters will suffer if the engage in random, meaningless PvP actually does deter some of that behavior.

    With Feuds coming in with Early Enrollment v8 I expect the amount of PvP will go up, but since Feuds have a cost and are Company, not individual, conflicts, I think that we'll still see a strong bias away from the kind of jerk behavior that makes PvP suck in so many sandbox games.

  • EdgeXEdgeX Member UncommonPosts: 39
    Originally posted by rsdancey
    So far I've been very pleased with how PvP is shaping up. The big concern that we'd have a Rust-style murder sim didn't happen. Turns out that telling people that their characters will suffer if the engage in random, meaningless PvP actually does deter some of that behavior. With Feuds coming in with Early Enrollment v8 I expect the amount of PvP will go up, but since Feuds have a cost and are Company, not individual, conflicts, I think that we'll still see a strong bias away from the kind of jerk behavior that makes PvP suck in so many sandbox games.

    That's not the point I was making. Yes, you need to have an anti-pk mechanic. Making it so the PKer literally cannot advance his character anymore for playing the way he likes to play, is dumb. Lineage 1, the very first MMO I played over 15 years ago, had better anti-pk mechanics. Yes being a PK was possible, but it was EXTREMELY risky, and not many people would do it. I could still level up my character though..............

     

    There is so many games with anti-pk mechanics, but I've never heard of one saying, hey, I know your style of gameplay is PKing but if you do that, I'm going to stop you from advancing your character for a couple days. ArcheAge, go to trial, go to jail. Lineage 1/2, drop your equipped items with very high frequency when you die, and can't enter towns. Or how about that penalty for PKing in EVE, that game you compare yourself to 800 times a day.....oh wait there isn't one, because they used policed secs.

    Isn't the whole point of a sandbox to do what you want? By saying if you do this, you can't advance your character until you wait a couple days is just meh.

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  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Member UncommonPosts: 2,367

    My first online game was UO. That game forever destroyed any thought of EVER being exposed to Pk'rs....ever.   Never will I allow another player take any of my property away from me.

    Now to shock you......my favorite game is DARK AGE OF CAMELOT. I love faction vs faction fighting. I've been playing it on / off for 13years. My wife still plays it every day.

    What sets DAOC apart  is that when you are killed by another player.....YOU LOOSE NOTHING. The player who killed you gets gold and other things from the game ....not me. THAT makes all the difference for me

    Currently I'm not playing DAOC.  I'm waiting for CAMELOT UNCHAINED. I  will be playing THE WITCHER 3 when it launches May 19th.

    I would love to play Pathfinder...but not with the player looting feature.

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