The fact that game is "zone based" - makes is it very possible to do it the old EQ1 style - mobs don't give up aggro until you zone or someone dies (you or them).
Seamless world games can't have this mechanic as it could be horribly abused (pulling 10,000s mobs into a city from the entire map) - that would be BAD for both performance and gameplay.
It's possible in a seamless world. Simple make the agro last as far as the "zone". Seamless games still have them you know. They're just implemented differently.
I like how it was in EQ. However I feel they need to tweak it some.
1. I want most zones be little larger than in EQ as we will have zones.
2. So if I aggro a mob they will not hunt me to the end of a zone, instead make them hunt me maybe around 25% of the zone so I don't need to zone out all the time. What I mean is.... Mobs will hunt you much longer than in most other MMOs but not as far as in EQ (the whole zone). This will do so you at least respect the environment you are in without making it to harsh.
I know we've heard that mobs will not be leashed and that, ala EQ, zones will be escape points for encounters gone wrong, but do we know if once the bearer of the aggro escapes does the aggro wipe and the mob resets?
Part of me loved trains being called to the zones when something went horribly wrong in EQ, but it was also a mechanic used for griefing. So I'm a little curious if we have any idea for Pantheons intent on mob aggro wipes after zoning.
I've read many of the threads on both both forums, but if this was ever stated I was unable to track it down.
What are your thoughts on trains, for or against?
Definitely against. I find it amazing people like these (poor coding & programming mistakes) old school mechanics but then I realize what forum I'm posting on. mmorpg.com posters for the most part are the republican party members of MMO's.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Definitely against. I find it amazing people like these (poor coding & programming mistakes) old school mechanics but then I realize what forum I'm posting on. mmorpg.com posters for the most part are the republican party members of MMO's.
Poor coding and programming mistakes? You serious?
So mobs that ignore you, while you are in their camps, just because they agroed someone else first sounds better? Mobs ignoring you in their camps, after you killed their brothers, just because you moved away 10 feet?
Get real please. What you seem to want is so far away from realism and RPG that it starts to hurt. There are dozens of games that fit your bill, leave this one to old school rpg fans please.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
I know we've heard that mobs will not be leashed and that, ala EQ, zones will be escape points for encounters gone wrong, but do we know if once the bearer of the aggro escapes does the aggro wipe and the mob resets?
Part of me loved trains being called to the zones when something went horribly wrong in EQ, but it was also a mechanic used for griefing. So I'm a little curious if we have any idea for Pantheons intent on mob aggro wipes after zoning.
I've read many of the threads on both both forums, but if this was ever stated I was unable to track it down.
What are your thoughts on trains, for or against?
Definitely against. I find it amazing people like these (poor coding & programming mistakes) old school mechanics but then I realize what forum I'm posting on. mmorpg.com posters for the most part are the republican party members of MMO's.
It wasn't a mistake, it was a deliberate choice. I was in EQ beta when they discussed trains and whether to try to remove them. The decision was a deliberate one, not a mistake or coding error.
i'm unclear, are you saying it is republican to be sure of you facts before you assume something you don't like is a mistake
I know we've heard that mobs will not be leashed and that, ala EQ, zones will be escape points for encounters gone wrong, but do we know if once the bearer of the aggro escapes does the aggro wipe and the mob resets?
Part of me loved trains being called to the zones when something went horribly wrong in EQ, but it was also a mechanic used for griefing. So I'm a little curious if we have any idea for Pantheons intent on mob aggro wipes after zoning.
I've read many of the threads on both both forums, but if this was ever stated I was unable to track it down.
What are your thoughts on trains, for or against?
Definitely against. I find it amazing people like these (poor coding & programming mistakes) old school mechanics but then I realize what forum I'm posting on. mmorpg.com posters for the most part are the republican party members of MMO's.
It wasn't a mistake, it was a deliberate choice. I was in EQ beta when they discussed trains and whether to try to remove them. The decision was a deliberate one, not a mistake or coding error.
i'm unclear, are you saying it is republican to be sure of you facts before you assume something you don't like is a mistake
Yeah I don't get his post, either. I'm all for bashing republicans but I don't see the correlation. I think it should also be pointed out that some people seem to be conflating two ideas; mob leashing and mob evasion. EQ had neither and most MMOs now have both. The trains were only dangerous in EQ because there was no leashing AND they didn't evade aggro/attacks on the way back to their spawn points. In modern MMOs you can't even attack a train if you wanted to because they just evade/ignore you once they drop aggro from the original person.
I'm all in favor of removing both of these new game mechanics or at the very least removing the evading portion. It would add a huge amount of danger and unpredictability to the game; not to mention player accountability which is sorely needed in modern MMOs and especially in a game focused on group content.
*edit*
I wanted to also add that I think another element that is tied directly to this are "chained" mobs. In virtually every MMO since EQ the mobs come in pre-determined "packs" that are chained together and can not be separated. One of the glorious aspects of EQ was that mobs were separate. They might assist each other (or might not) but that was up to you to figure out. This is where mob "pulling" came into play and is what made monks so valuable. I really hope mob chains are done away with and pulling is brought back to MMOs. It was a fantastic element to EQ that was player driven and should have been celebrated and expanded not done away with.
Originally posted by flizzer This would become a griefer's wet dream game. It would be a disaster for players. No way do I want to see this in this game.
it wasn't disaster in EQ so why would it be here? Griefers were known and besides, learn to use the mechanic as payback. I was an Iksar Monk in EQ and oh what fun it could be to train half a zone and FD at the healer's feet of group that used it against me. Griefers got zero sympathy when they got trained. Good times when the entire zone gangs up on them...
I say put it in the game and let players police themselves vice having a company hold everyone's hand through the game.
Agreed, There was remarkably little griefing in EQ. Trains happened, especially in blackburrow, it was a blast. People generally yelled "train to zone" and players generally got out of the way. If it was done maliciously, players would complain to GMs, GMs could look through logs and see who it was, so it was a good way to get your account banned. Let me put it this way, griefing was uncommon enough on PvE servers that Fansy the bard became a huge deal for training sand giants to low level players on one server. Honestly, I never was griefed, and I came from UO where it was a daily occurrence.
Ya, I didn't experience too many intentional trains. Also it was a good way for payback for people or groups that were jerks. I remember on a few occasions someone would kill steal me or my group.
One group in lguk came in and killed the boss we've been camping at for hours. I went and pulled half the zone, from the areas no one really went to and dropped it on them to teach them a lesson. Some of the mobs stayed put for quite a while. By the time they got their bodies, they were not kill stealing anyone anymore lol.
To make it seamless and be able to corral mobs you could also make guard outposts at choke points that had super AOE damage to kill any mob or group of mobs that tried to pass though them. Just make the guards neutral faction so everyone else can run by.
I really enjoyed the trains and aggro chains in EQ. They always added an element of suspense knowing that one wrong pull could spell doom and a mad rush to the zone wall. I still have some hilarious screens from Blackburrow and Guk.
Sure there were people who would intentionally create trains but it kept you alert and in the moment.
I really hope Pantheon adds back that element of suspense and fear. I am so tired of easy mode in PVE.
Del Cabon A US Army ('Just Cause') Vet and MMORPG Native formerly of Trinsic, Norath and Dereth. Currently playing LOTRO.
Originally posted by Gyva02 To make it seamless and be able to corral mobs you could also make guard outposts at choke points that had super AOE damage to kill any mob or group of mobs that tried to pass though them. Just make the guards neutral faction so everyone else can run by.
Its not going to be seamless.
I know it seems like a small issue that no one would raise an eyebrow at in another game, but in a world like Pantheon's everything in the world, including the inhabitants have a purpose. All the NPCs belong to certain factions and are given the appropriate level and abilities. You can attack them, and if you aren't aligned with them, they will attack you. Everything in the world is based on the premise of alignment, and thus, hates or likes certain players or even other npcs accordingly. One does not just throw npcs into the mix.
Originally posted by Gyva02 To make it seamless and be able to corral mobs you could also make guard outposts at choke points that had super AOE damage to kill any mob or group of mobs that tried to pass though them. Just make the guards neutral faction so everyone else can run by.
Neutral faction guards are no fun. Take the Overthere for example, I loved the guards there. They were your best friend if you had good faction with them. They were your worst nightmare if you had bad faction.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
Originally posted by Gyva02 To make it seamless and be able to corral mobs you could also make guard outposts at choke points that had super AOE damage to kill any mob or group of mobs that tried to pass though them. Just make the guards neutral faction so everyone else can run by.
I realize this is an un needed discussion because Pantheon will not be seamless, but this wouldn't be necessary. you can simply program any npc to follow to certain points (fake zone lines) or any distance you want. There's no need to have guards kill them to keep them contained. The harder part is actually getting them to follow you outside of their "zone" and returning home again.
Comments
It's possible in a seamless world. Simple make the agro last as far as the "zone". Seamless games still have them you know. They're just implemented differently.
I like how it was in EQ.
However I feel they need to tweak it some.
1. I want most zones be little larger than in EQ as we will have zones.
2. So if I aggro a mob they will not hunt me to the end of a zone, instead make them hunt me maybe around 25% of the zone so I don't need to zone out all the time. What I mean is.... Mobs will hunt you much longer than in most other MMOs but not as far as in EQ (the whole zone). This will do so you at least respect the environment you are in without making it to harsh.
Definitely against. I find it amazing people like these (poor coding & programming mistakes) old school mechanics but then I realize what forum I'm posting on. mmorpg.com posters for the most part are the republican party members of MMO's.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Poor coding and programming mistakes? You serious?
So mobs that ignore you, while you are in their camps, just because they agroed someone else first sounds better? Mobs ignoring you in their camps, after you killed their brothers, just because you moved away 10 feet?
Get real please. What you seem to want is so far away from realism and RPG that it starts to hurt. There are dozens of games that fit your bill, leave this one to old school rpg fans please.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
It wasn't a mistake, it was a deliberate choice. I was in EQ beta when they discussed trains and whether to try to remove them. The decision was a deliberate one, not a mistake or coding error.
i'm unclear, are you saying it is republican to be sure of you facts before you assume something you don't like is a mistake
Yeah I don't get his post, either. I'm all for bashing republicans but I don't see the correlation. I think it should also be pointed out that some people seem to be conflating two ideas; mob leashing and mob evasion. EQ had neither and most MMOs now have both. The trains were only dangerous in EQ because there was no leashing AND they didn't evade aggro/attacks on the way back to their spawn points. In modern MMOs you can't even attack a train if you wanted to because they just evade/ignore you once they drop aggro from the original person.
I'm all in favor of removing both of these new game mechanics or at the very least removing the evading portion. It would add a huge amount of danger and unpredictability to the game; not to mention player accountability which is sorely needed in modern MMOs and especially in a game focused on group content.
*edit*
I wanted to also add that I think another element that is tied directly to this are "chained" mobs. In virtually every MMO since EQ the mobs come in pre-determined "packs" that are chained together and can not be separated. One of the glorious aspects of EQ was that mobs were separate. They might assist each other (or might not) but that was up to you to figure out. This is where mob "pulling" came into play and is what made monks so valuable. I really hope mob chains are done away with and pulling is brought back to MMOs. It was a fantastic element to EQ that was player driven and should have been celebrated and expanded not done away with.
Ya, I didn't experience too many intentional trains. Also it was a good way for payback for people or groups that were jerks. I remember on a few occasions someone would kill steal me or my group.
One group in lguk came in and killed the boss we've been camping at for hours. I went and pulled half the zone, from the areas no one really went to and dropped it on them to teach them a lesson. Some of the mobs stayed put for quite a while. By the time they got their bodies, they were not kill stealing anyone anymore lol.
I really enjoyed the trains and aggro chains in EQ. They always added an element of suspense knowing that one wrong pull could spell doom and a mad rush to the zone wall. I still have some hilarious screens from Blackburrow and Guk.
Sure there were people who would intentionally create trains but it kept you alert and in the moment.
I really hope Pantheon adds back that element of suspense and fear. I am so tired of easy mode in PVE.
Del Cabon
A US Army ('Just Cause') Vet and MMORPG Native formerly of Trinsic, Norath and Dereth. Currently playing LOTRO.
Its not going to be seamless.
I know it seems like a small issue that no one would raise an eyebrow at in another game, but in a world like Pantheon's everything in the world, including the inhabitants have a purpose. All the NPCs belong to certain factions and are given the appropriate level and abilities. You can attack them, and if you aren't aligned with them, they will attack you. Everything in the world is based on the premise of alignment, and thus, hates or likes certain players or even other npcs accordingly. One does not just throw npcs into the mix.
Neutral faction guards are no fun. Take the Overthere for example, I loved the guards there. They were your best friend if you had good faction with them. They were your worst nightmare if you had bad faction.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
I realize this is an un needed discussion because Pantheon will not be seamless, but this wouldn't be necessary. you can simply program any npc to follow to certain points (fake zone lines) or any distance you want. There's no need to have guards kill them to keep them contained. The harder part is actually getting them to follow you outside of their "zone" and returning home again.