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The Destructive Legacy of WoW

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  • CalmOceansCalmOceans Member UncommonPosts: 2,437
    Originally posted by BadSpock
     I thought it was boring and bland and completely ridiculous to just sit and farm mobs over and over to level up

    It doesn't make much sense on it's own. It is only when you have friends and you have a guild and are able to chat that it starts to make sense. EQ has always been a social game with a bolted on combat system, without socializing and without interdependence, the game will just look like a static grind game.

    I can totally get that someone would log into the game, and ask themselves why they would want to kill the same mobs over and over, it's not for everyone, just like WoW isn't for me.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans Member UncommonPosts: 2,437
    And chatting with other bored nerds didn't make that much better.
     
    Thing is, past is past. Now that I know better

    Guess that what happens when you grow up and find other things to do than to sit in front of a screen killing the same group of trolls for 6 hours to gain 10% of a level.
     

    You choose to chat with MMO players on this forum, how is it any different. Many EQ players rarely leveled and just chatted. How is it any different from you chatting with me? It's pretty much the same thing.

    If anything you should find this forum more boring than MMO, it doesn't even feature gameplay of any kind, yet you're here socializing, a very basic form of socializing, but it's the same concept.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans Member UncommonPosts: 2,437
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    And chatting with other bored nerds didn't make that much better.
     
    Thing is, past is past. Now that I know better

    Guess that what happens when you grow up and find other things to do than to sit in front of a screen killing the same group of trolls for 6 hours to gain 10% of a level.
     

    You choose to chat with MMO players on this forum, how is it any different.

    You compare a message that takes like 10s to type, not to mention you can do other things while occasionally browsing forums, to gaming sessions you had to endure for several hours to get any result?

    Not sure if serious... clutching at straws?

    It's no different from you being on this forum, you come to the forum to socialize, EQ players came to EQ to do the same thing, to be around other people and to talk to them.

    The combat was optional, many people sat in towns or later pok just to chat. It's really no different.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans Member UncommonPosts: 2,437
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    Please, don't insult other veteran's intelligence with crap like "combat was optional" when talking about EQ.

    But it was, you could do tradeskills or could just chat. There are plenty of players who never made it past lvl 20, you could find them on EQplayers, players with years of playtime and they merely chatted in game. EQ was before Twitter / Facebook and before this forum.

    You even had people going to the bazaar specifically to chat, because they knew a trader (you couldn't trade offline in EQ)

    The idea that EQ was merely grinding mobs isn't really correct, while it did feature lots of grinding, the main reason most players played EQ was the social aspect, we grouped with friends and the slow combat allowed you to interact with people, your guild, and the chat channels.

  • grimalgrimal Member UncommonPosts: 2,935

    I'm not a WoW fan, but this article is so off base it is ridiculous.

    As Spock said previously, make a game that offers something different than WoW instead of trying to copy it...again....and again....and again....and again....and again....

     

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans Member UncommonPosts: 2,437
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    Please, don't insult other veteran's intelligence with crap like "combat was optional" when talking about EQ.

    But it was, you could do tradeskills or could just chat. .

    And you can't do that in other games?

    Please...

    Didn't say you couldn't. Although I do feel it is much harder doing so in a group in today's twitch MMO, the speed at which you are required to activate abilities is so high that it doesn't allow for much of any interaction.

    (unless you use vent or something, which on a European server with multiple languages, isn't that convenient or pleasant as you might think)

  • grimalgrimal Member UncommonPosts: 2,935
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    Please, don't insult other veteran's intelligence with crap like "combat was optional" when talking about EQ.

    But it was, you could do tradeskills or could just chat. There are plenty of players who never made it past lvl 20, you could find them on EQplayers, players with years of playtime and they merely chatted in game. EQ was before Twitter / Facebook and before this forum.

    You even had people going to the bazaar specifically to chat, because they knew a trader (you couldn't trade offline in EQ)

    The idea that EQ was merely grinding mobs isn't really correct, while it did feature lots of grinding, the main reason most players played EQ was the social aspect, we grouped with friends and the slow combat allowed you to interact with people, your guild, and the chat channels.

    And yet we have stories of people getting to max level in WoW without killing a single thing....

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans Member UncommonPosts: 2,437
    Originally posted by grimal
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    Please, don't insult other veteran's intelligence with crap like "combat was optional" when talking about EQ.

    But it was, you could do tradeskills or could just chat. There are plenty of players who never made it past lvl 20, you could find them on EQplayers, players with years of playtime and they merely chatted in game. EQ was before Twitter / Facebook and before this forum.

    You even had people going to the bazaar specifically to chat, because they knew a trader (you couldn't trade offline in EQ)

    The idea that EQ was merely grinding mobs isn't really correct, while it did feature lots of grinding, the main reason most players played EQ was the social aspect, we grouped with friends and the slow combat allowed you to interact with people, your guild, and the chat channels.

    And yet we have stories of people getting to max level in WoW without killing a single thing....

    That's cool, I assume he had a lot of time to chat too, some people don't play MMO for the combat, they just do it to be around other people.

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536


    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    Originally posted by sephiban3 Implying EQ was hard. EQ was tedious, not hard. Will there be a day when people know the difference between when something is tedious and hard?
    EQ was hard. The counterargument that it wasn't hard always comes from people who never played the game or gave up after 2 years, or never lead a raid, and have never done anything significant in EQ. It's always the same argument, from the same people, it is tiresome.
    EQ diehard fans all tend to confuse the words "hard" and "tedious". EQ wasn't hard, it was full of tedious time wasting mechanics. Grinding the same mobs for hours isn't hard, except maybe that it's hard to stay awaken afte a while, but it's definitely utterly tedious.

    Pretending EQ wasn't a hard game is ridiculous. Granted, how hard something is varies, but even by the standard you are using, its hard and you simply hide it behind semantics.

    By default, the game was harder because the mobs were stronger than a player from about level 10 and up. Exponentially so at max level. They were also generally faster than players. The fact that most classes could not solo, or had limiting soloing abilities made the game harder. It was therefore necessary to seek out others. The fact that there was a penalty for dying made it harder.

    Playing around with semantics calling something harder "tedious" only makes you look like another jaded modern mmo fanboy. The rhetoric you dish out on a daily basis here makes you the perfect example of what Wolfshead talked about in the article. You are so inundated by casual mechanics of modern games you constantly have to fall back on them, praise them and justify why they are somehow better than older mechanics, all so you can validate why you continue to play them. No one needs to hear how you rationalize playing them and why you hate older games so much. Your arguments are full of holes, thus you fall back on semantics like you did here.


    Originally posted by Wolfshead As we continue to play a MMO, we come to accept and validate the mechanics and features it provides for us, so we expect them in our current MMO and in all other MMOs we play. We as humans tend to reinforce decisions we have made in the past. The same is true of MMOs. Once players become wedded to MMO conventions they have a tendency to validate those conventions by continuing to participate in them. This demonstrates what is termed consistency and commitment. Dr. Robert Cialdini talks about this in his book Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion. When we continue to play and support MMOs that are designed with certain values, we tend to justify our decisions and internalize the values that that particular MMO has imported to us. So if a MMO is designed with little to no reason for social interaction and we continue to play that MMO, we start to believe that social interaction is a needless distraction and an unwanted impediment on our quest for advancement.


  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    Just a hint Dull-man : telling someone he's wrong because of semantics (aka conveniently avoiding to really discuss his arguments) doesn't make you right. But those insult-filled answers of you when you run out of real arguments aren't a surprise, it's what you always do.

    I won't post the same message again - you may want to give it a real answer or just shut up now. You could start with telling us why tedious (aka having to give up your real life to level at a decent rate, spending days if not weeks farming the same mobs) is better than doing quests and actually experiencing some entertaining stories, moving all over the map and not having to camp a spot.

    No worries, I'm not holding my breath.

    Oh man, he angry, he really angry.

    Ad hominems coupled with strawmen in response to my very pertinent, very relevant responses backed by facts.


  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    If you take time out of the equation, then you are able to argue that corpse runs or death penalties or XP loss don't make a game more challengine. But the reality is that MMO, and our world, revolve around time.

    That's why EQ's betas were so successful, the ability to have corpse runs no longer affect you. the few weeks a year we could play in easymode if we got accpeted into a beta, the ability to learn a raid at a very fast pace. That's why MMO have these boss practice mode in some game, the ability to have deaths no longer affect you. The less time is required for recover, the faster you learn a boss. Certainly, when the corpse recovery was cumbersome and time consuming such as in EQ, it made everything more challenging as a result, expansions didn't wait until you learned the raid.

    Time isn't being taken out of the equation.  It's just not being wasted without purpose.

    Koster's A Theory of Fun (2003) describes how the most common way players enjoy games is essentially learning (pattern mastery.) If EQ had raid betas where penalty was eliminated, then that would've been the pure gameplay and rapid iteration (learning; pattern mastery) that players are most interested in games, and no surprise at all that would've been tremendously more popular than timesink-heavy gameplay.

    Time will be taken (those raid fights didn't end instantly), but it's the amount of time which is deliberately wasted in non-gameplay (to sell more subscription time) is the key difference.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • AkulasAkulas Member RarePosts: 3,017
    Take away WoW and there would only be pale little D&D master basement kids who have now grown up over the years to become game reviewers, devs or annoying insurance salesman playing the game which we all know make the best gamers. So, bring back those shy awkeard kids I used to have so much fun gaming with when I was younger.

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,979
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    Just a hint Dull-man : telling someone he's wrong because of semantics (aka conveniently avoiding to really discuss his arguments) doesn't make you right. But those insult-filled answer of you when you run out of real arguments are usual, so I'm not really surprised.

    I won't post the same message again - you may want to give it a real answer or just shut up.

    Don't let it get to you Jean-Luc...

    For some the glasses are so rose-tinted from their nostalgia they cannot even consider the possibility their opinion may not be shared, or their "facts" may, in fact, be false.

    Modern fan-bois tend to wear blinders to hide the bad parts of a game they love, but the nostalgia crowd simply lack perspective.

     

    I'd challenge anyone who is so hung up on how great EQ was to do the following:

    1. Gather 4 like minded friends 

    2. Get free WoW accounts

    3. Start a new character and meet up with each other (don't do goblin, worgen, or pandaren)

    4. Make sure you have a tank capable class and a heal capable class in your party

    5. Use no add ons or mods

    6. Head to a zone/area where the mobs are at least 3-4 levels above you

    7. Kill mobs as a party

    8. As you level up, move to different parts of the zone or a new zone to keep the 3-4 level gap

    9. Don't buy any talents

    10. If you die, you have to release and rez at the spirit healer and take the rez sickness

    11. You can't run from any fights either to simulate mob training

    12. No buying anything off of the auction house

    13. No doing any quests (obviously)

    14. No crafting (only because gathering also gives XP)

    15. No using hearthstone or any flight points

    16. No mounts

    17. No summoning stones

    18. If you see an elite mob (non-PvP), you HAVE to try and kill it

    19. No repairing your gear - if it breaks, you have to delete it and replace it

     

    See if you can get to the level 20 cap on the free version. Bask in the nostalgia! 

    *edit You may have to do it in RIFT actually, I don't think you can join a party in the WoW Starter Version

    TL;DR version - you should honestly try to play a more modern MMO without the modern conveniences and systems they've put into the game and see how "fun" and "awesome" it really is/was

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by vesuvias
    Originally posted by Flyte27

    I think you miss their point. 

    More risk means less people are going to take the risk.  In reality when someone has gone out to explore in history few people are willing to do it because it's a risk.  There are only a few people who are willing to go into and unknown and risk their life. 

    The same thing applies when you have a penalty.  The risk is greater so not many people will be willing to take the risk.  This mimics the real world and is more interesting.  It creates a scenario where not everyone is going to be able to do everything in the game.  That makes everything that is done in the game more valuable. 

    Weather or not the actual act of what you are doing is more difficult or not is irrelevant.  It's how much you are risking that is important and the deciding factor on weather it means something or not.

    But time is not a penalty that is evenly distributed across populations. Its not a penalty that consistent nor does it effect all players evenly in terms of "painfulness". You can say "tough" or that's life all you want. But spending two hours getting your body back when you only have two hours that night to play its much more painful than spending two hours of your nightly alotment of 12 hours to play. The common response is "well maybe MMOs aren't for people with only 2 hours to play". But really it's maybe the MMOs you want to play are so niche that they are only for 60 hour  a week gamers. The attributes of genre are not decided by the most hardcore gamers, they decided by the most successful games. 

    EQ was a horrible game design because it "excluded" so many gamers. It really should lose the Massively genre moniker. You won't see a design like EQ again because it is so obviously exclusive to a certain crowd of players with far to much time to waste on game as to be near the point of unhealthiness. That niche may not be able to be served unless they pay far more than they are probably willing to pay.

    Whats not obvious to those that love that old design is that EQ had far more players than it ever had any right to at the time. This was because there weren't any other options for online virtual fantasy worlds. 

    They put it in forumulation like:

    "it was just a "filter" that filtered "unwanted elements" out of the game"

    My response is always that it was so good a filter that at some point it filtered pretty much everyone out of the game ;)

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by Dullahan
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    Just a hint Dull-man : telling someone he's wrong because of semantics (aka conveniently avoiding to really discuss his arguments) doesn't make you right. But those insult-filled answers of you when you run out of real arguments aren't a surprise, it's what you always do.

    I won't post the same message again - you may want to give it a real answer or just shut up now. You could start with telling us why tedious (aka having to give up your real life to level at a decent rate, spending days if not weeks farming the same mobs) is better than doing quests and actually experiencing some entertaining stories, moving all over the map and not having to camp a spot.

    No worries, I'm not holding my breath.

    Oh man, he angry, he really angry.

    Ad hominems coupled with strawmen in response to my very pertinent, very relevant responses backed by facts.

    Typical - more insults. You describe tedious mechanics in your previous post, and then try to present them as hard. I haven't seen a single argument, even less a polite one, explaining how all that grind and forced grouping, aka all the time wasting activities, weren't tedious.

    Sure, a "no life" could play EQ efficiently back then. The time investment was tremendous if you wanted to raid and experience the full game, all slowed down by many tedious and repetitive mechanics.

    Tell me, what's your real life job? Are you working on some assembly line tightening the same screws all day long? How social is that activity? No? Then why does this suddently become "hard" and "social" when in a video game one should play for entertainement and leisure?

    Its the epitome of irony that you claim I insult you while you insult me.  Dull-man?  No-life?  What do you do?  Insult-filled, I won't hold my breath, etc... all while pretending that I avoided your argument, implying cowardice or that my wit is somehow dwarfed by your own, right after I directly addressed your claim by responding specifically, countering it and even prefacing it with the words "THE FACT THAT" to make it easier to read and understand.

    There was nothing so scathing about what I said or the way I said it, so please stop trying to twist this and make yourself out to be a victim.  You are the aggressor here attacking my character for simply addressing YOUR position on a matter.

    I already stated VERBATIM why it was harder, and did so without a single insult.  It was harder because the mobs were harder on average.  They had more HP, they used more abilities, they were faster, they required players to work together (socialize/cooperate), they chased you further, they were prone to resist spells and abilities, there was no force-taunt mechanics, and the mob social/aggro mechanics were considerably harder than the auto-link systems used in games today leaving content completely static and predictable.

    These are facts.  Whether you consider them punishing or not does not detract from them nor does it change them.  Whether it took more time or dedication is irrelevant.  To each his own.  That type of gameplay isn't for everyone.  Pretending that a type of game has no right to exist just makes you a bigot.


  • TibernicuspaTibernicuspa Member UncommonPosts: 1,199
    Originally posted by reeereee

    Awe, that mean old Blizzard turned the pile of garbage that was EQ1 into something that more than few fringe nerds want to play

    The market has spoken

    Funny, because EQ1 had 500k subs which, is more than just about any modern WoW clone has ever managed to sustain.

     

    The market has spoken indeed, and across the board, the market has rejected WoW clones. Those that like it are already playing WoW. Flop after flop, forcing everyone to go FTP and fire developers and shut studios down have shown that the people don't want WoW clones.

     

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    Just a hint Dull-man : telling someone he's wrong because of semantics (aka conveniently avoiding to really discuss his arguments) doesn't make you right. But those insult-filled answer of you when you run out of real arguments are usual, so I'm not really surprised.

    I won't post the same message again - you may want to give it a real answer or just shut up.

    Don't let it get to you Jean-Luc...

    For some the glasses are so rose-tinted from their nostalgia they cannot even consider the possibility their opinion may not be shared, or their "facts" may, in fact, be false.

    Modern fan-bois tend to wear blinders to hide the bad parts of a game they love, but the nostalgia crowd simply lack perspective.

     

    I'd challenge anyone who is so hung up on how great EQ was to do the following:

    1. Gather 4 like minded friends 

    2. Get free WoW accounts

    3. Start a new character and meet up with each other (don't do goblin, worgen, or pandaren)

    4. Make sure you have a tank capable class and a heal capable class in your party

    5. Use no add ons or mods

    6. Head to a zone/area where the mobs are at least 3-4 levels above you

    7. Kill mobs as a party

    8. As you level up, move to different parts of the zone or a new zone to keep the 3-4 level gap

    9. Don't buy any talents

    10. If you die, you have to release and rez at the spirit healer and take the rez sickness

    11. You can't run from any fights either to simulate mob training

    12. No buying anything off of the auction house

    13. No doing any quests (obviously)

    14. No crafting (only because gathering also gives XP)

    15. No using hearthstone or any flight points

    16. No mounts

    17. No summoning stones

    18. If you see an elite mob (non-PvP), you HAVE to try and kill it

    19. No repairing your gear - if it breaks, you have to delete it and replace it

     

    See if you can get to the level 20 cap on the free version. Bask in the nostalgia! 

    *edit You may have to do it in RIFT actually, I don't think you can join a party in the WoW Starter Version

    TL;DR version - you should honestly try to play a more modern MMO without the modern conveniences and systems they've put into the game and see how "fun" and "awesome" it really is/was

    you guys don't get it

    It's not about the lack of conveniences, we're not masochists

    When you died your whole group landed naked on their bind spot, you needed to ask a druid for SOW, you need to ask someone for levitation if possible, you needed to find a necro for summon the corpse if it was behind mobs, you needed a wizard for port, you needed someone with a key for some zones.

    It's not about some kind of masochism, dying in EQ had advantages, it forced the community to come together to help the person who just died. It created interaction and dependency on other classes.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,979
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    TL;DR version - you should honestly try to play a more modern MMO without the modern conveniences and systems they've put into the game and see how "fun" and "awesome" it really is/was

    you guys don't get it

    It's not about the lack of conveniences, we're not masochists

    When you died your whole group landed naked on their bind spot, you needed to ask a druid for SOW, you need to ask someone for levitation if possible, you needed to find a necro for summon the corpse if it was behind mobs, you needed a wizard for port, you needed someone with a key for some zones.

    It's not about some kind of masochism, dying in EQ had advantages, it forced the community to come together to help the person who just died. It created interaction and dependency on other classes.

    Fair enough.

    It's not like dependency and interaction aren't in MMOs anymore though, it's just not forced every second of every day you spend playing the game.

    You can do other stuff until you find that Warlock or Druid or Necro etc. etc. you need in order to do X, which you cannot hope to do on your own.

  • DominisiDominisi Age of Conan CorrespondentMember Posts: 95

    Its not so much that WoW destroyed anything on purpose - what happened is much more subtle than that:

     

    WoW's game design brought a record amount of subscribers for very good reasons, it was an established IP, it was really well polished, there was tons of content to be had. The fault lies not in the games that came after, but the people who funded those games. They would basically say, what can we do to make this title pull in the kind of numbers WoW does? And the systems basically had to get added into the game in order to appeal to the investors to try and pull the same numbers. Here is a interview that the Crow Fall people did that puts it way more eloquently than I can. 

     

    image

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    It's not like dependency and interaction aren't in MMOs anymore though, it's just not forced every second of every day you spend playing the game.

    They are, but to a far lesser extent. WoW still has some dependency, since it's still a trinity type, but something like Black Desert where I see videos of people just soloing everything, what type of dependency is still left in those games. They gave every class the ability to sustain hits from mobs and there's no class defining roles anymore.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,979
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    It's not like dependency and interaction aren't in MMOs anymore though, it's just not forced every second of every day you spend playing the game.

    They are, but to a far lesser extent. WoW still has some dependency, since it's still a trinity type, but something like Black Desert where I see videos of people just soloing everything, what type of dependency is still left in those games. They gave every class the ability to sustain hits from mobs and there's no class defining roles anymore.

    I think it is more that they have split content between stuff that requires dependency and roles and stuff that everyone can do on their own, instead of everything being content that requires dependency.

  • MoiraeMoirae Member RarePosts: 3,318
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    To sum up -

    SWG would have survived well if they fixed their game and kept to the vision - a sandbox Star Wars world.

    EQ2 would have done better if it stuck to it's Everquest roots (more hardcore party based PvE).

    WAR would have been good if they focused on the RvR and left the quests/dungeons/raids to WoW.

    AoC would have been good if they embraced the brutality of the IP with open world FFA PvP (with consequence) instead of trying to appease the masses with generic quest driven PvE.

    SWTOR would have been good if they embraced the story and character building in true Bioware fashion rather than watering everything down to include WoW-like elements.

    Rift could have risen further if they had focused on the public event/rift/invasions and more unique class building system then trying to chase the WoW-model of dungeons/raids and instanced PvP.

    etc. etc. etc.

    None of these games "failed" or under-performed directly because of WoW - they did the damage to themselves by trying to be like "that other guy" and simply not doing a very good job at it. 

    You can't blame WoW for its success, you can definitely blame the fools trying to break off their piece of it and failing.

    Wow. Bingo. 

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    TL;DR version - you should honestly try to play a more modern MMO without the modern conveniences and systems they've put into the game and see how "fun" and "awesome" it really is/was

    you guys don't get it

    It's not about the lack of conveniences, we're not masochists

    When you died your whole group landed naked on their bind spot, you needed to ask a druid for SOW, you need to ask someone for levitation if possible, you needed to find a necro for summon the corpse if it was behind mobs, you needed a wizard for port, you needed someone with a key for some zones.

    It's not about some kind of masochism, dying in EQ had advantages, it forced the community to come together to help the person who just died. It created interaction and dependency on other classes.

    Fair enough.

    It's not like dependency and interaction aren't in MMOs anymore though, it's just not forced every second of every day you spend playing the game.

    You can do other stuff until you find that Warlock or Druid or Necro etc. etc. you need in order to do X, which you cannot hope to do on your own.

    You could do "other stuff" in EQ as well if your party was lacking something.

    Pretending that the game is harder is not a viable solution either.  I mean granted, you can really play make-believe and gimp yourself in modern games, but that illusion is quickly shattered by the first player who runs into the pack of mobs that your group is fighting and solos them.  Then you die and your all of 10 seconds from your body, that will be quite sobering too. 

    The biggest problem is that no one with a competitive bone in their body will choose to play games at a disadvantage.  If its not a real constraint, eventually you will take the easy way out.  Sorta like developers in this genre did a decade ago.


  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,671
    Wow success can't be attributed to how well it was advertised? Backed by various celebrities, pitched in shows as the "game" for gaming nerds. Its system was nothing new,, it just had better marketing than other games at the time which kept getting bigger and better overtime. I mean seriously, who wouldn't want to play a game with Chuck Norris?
  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    And chatting with other bored nerds didn't make that much better.
     
    Thing is, past is past. Now that I know better

    Guess that what happens when you grow up and find other things to do than to sit in front of a screen killing the same group of trolls for 6 hours to gain 10% of a level.
     

    You choose to chat with MMO players on this forum, how is it any different.

    You compare a message that takes like 10s to type, not to mention you can do other things while occasionally browsing forums, to gaming sessions you had to endure for several hours to get any result?

    Not sure if serious... clutching at straws?

    It's no different from you being on this forum, you come to the forum to socialize, EQ players came to EQ to do the same thing, to be around other people and to talk to them.

    The combat was optional, many people sat in towns or later pok just to chat. It's really no different.

    Ah, so it was just a glorified chatroom.

    It always comes down to that.

    EQ was "great" but its "greatness" had to do nothing with actual game which was in fact terrible game and clumsy attempt at MMO.

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