No depth,hand holding,1-2 shot kills,those games are an auto delete for me.Then if i see a bunch of buildings that are nothing more than a texture pasted on a surface,i am likely not sticking around.Too lazy to make buildings with insides means the entire game was a rush and a cheap job,not interested.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
For me, it's not what games have, it's what games LACK that keep me away.
Personally, I love playing non healer support. Good luck finding that in a functional mmo game anymore. Be it pve or pvp, I love playing the role of the guy who doesn't seem to be doing much; little damage, little healing, not taking hits, etc, but is actively shaping the fight in favor of his team. Some games have buffbot classes, but those play out like dps classes that bestow buffs to me.
Closest thing I've seen is DC Universe Online's Controller role.
Well, I'll start with EVE and continue later about other MMO's.
#1 EVE - The passive skill system that limits the pace of how quick I can train my skills through playing, which is truly hurting for new potential players in 11 year old MMORPG. Then the fact it's a group forced MMO, always have to depend on others, because it feels like whoever has the biggest numbers (zergfest) "wins" in the game, over whoever has the best equipment/ship. I doubt there is also any system in place giving me the tools to avoid such zergfests. Then there is the PLEX P2W system in place...
Actually out of everything available I think EVE does MMO the best. I love the passive skill system, it rewards the dedicated while still allows the the dabbler to find a role. I never felt group forced, I just used cheap ships and chips when I was solo. A Rifter can rock.Like others have noted PLEX is a system that works, both the buyers and the sellers like PLEX and the credits you can gain cannot make you significantly better in the game.
The only thing about EVE I don't like, besides getting ganked, is actually playing the game. I don't care for the interface, the GUI,The HUD or whatever you want to call it. It has rightfully been called derisively "spreadsheets in space." All those gorgeous graphics and you spend most of your time staring at lists or little red x's.
I would love it if a decent quality fantasy MMO would basically rip everything off from EVE and put me in a Humanoid body running around a huge world.
What is keeping me from MMO's is the same thing keeping me from Shooters. I played Doom, and Quake and Unreal and Goldeneye and Hexen, Long ago. It is played out to me. Just the same games in a fresh wrapper or prettier skin. Same goes for the WOW clone so called popular MMO's. It has been a long time since the MMO went 3D, but it hasn't changed all that much since it "stood up."
TLDR- It's played out man.
( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)
First time I've seen EVE described as a "popular" MMO.
It's also game the OP knows he should have started playing years ago, and he just can't keep from kicking himself, so he invents all sorts of self imposed reasons why he can't start now.
The biggest limitation to a person playing EVE is not the games complexity, it's the attitude of the player holding them back more than anything.
No need to train skills for 6 months before you can start playing, get in a darn ship and get busy. 4 months after joining EVE I was in 0.0 ratting in a BS...and busting POSs....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Kyleran First time I've seen EVE described as a "popular" MMO.
It's also game the OP knows he should have started playing years ago, and he just can't keep from kicking himself, so he invents all sorts of self imposed reasons why he can't start now.
The biggest limitation to a person playing EVE is not the games complexity, it's the attitude of the player holding them back more than anything.
No need to train skills for 6 months before you can start playing, get in a darn ship and get busy. 4 months after joining EVE I was in 0.0 ratting in a BS...and busting POSs....
Let me get this straight, almost a 12 year old MMORPG, that's been one of the most praised as the next best sandbox (after SWG) that's seen growth due to it's uniqueness and CCP being able to develop, improve and polish it over the decade both in its content and graphics and almost every MMORPG player has heard of by now in your opinion is not popular, umm ok.
I remember it had "advertised" a steady 300k subs for few years (not sure of its recent) with 20-30k online users on the server at a time...I guess those numbers are not sufficient in your opinion for a MMORPG to be popular. Anyways, since we're talking about "limitations" and "attitudes" that hold players back more than anything...Be honest and share here to the community some of the greatest moments and "experiences" you were fortunate to experience and remember with your beloved EVE beside roaming in 0.0 and busting POS, which I'm sure most do since that's pretty much endgame PvP. I'll be also glad to share some of my greatest moments and experiences in other beloved MMORPG's of my own.
You're saying you bust POS and that's great. I'm also sure while you were doing that others were busting your POS as well. It's like cat and mouse chase, but you aren't truly winning anything. Since the multiboxers and those who buy their PLEX'es with $ consistently "cheating" their way in the game because non other but CCP has allowed that to happen in their game. Why would I or anyone else be part of such MMORPG? It's also very casual and group dependent. You mentioned yourself how it took you 4 months to enter 0.0.
the grind.......be it mob farming or quest farming........im not a content locust and i like to take my time to level, but yisus craist, they should at least put some effort into making it enjoyable somehow....each time i see a game which leaves me with a grind "cliff" after the starting tutorial turns me off quickly.
oh wait, but that's for any MMO.
going in context with the OP would be the payment model mostly, i dont like P2W, i dont like B2P i can somehow get with P2P as long as i get to buy gametime with ingame currency (this is why i love/loved EVE) F2P is a no brainer for me as long as i dont get locked in content (which is something 90% of F2P titles do so damn)....
Thankfully, only few mainstream MMO has that, because their devs know that this mix just doesn't work, and games which apply it are all failures.
This one really does my head in. Actually worse in FF14 ARR, because you're forced to group story instances and get hit with a barrage of 'OMFG SKIP THE CUT SCENES!" and you run the risk of getting booted if you don't do as you're told. It really isn't new player friendly in that respect.
Originally posted by Kaledren The console feel. Meaning stories tailored to make "you" the hero and only savior. Stat boards, very easy gameplay, heavy emphasis on pvp, linear progression gameplay, map GPS...
*edit* missed this one, I don't actually mind that. I'm the opposite actually, I don't like being the inconsiquental every day man that isn't of any value. I can get that IRL cheers.
Originally posted by Dullahan
Any time players working together or a need to group is brought up as a negative feature in a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER game I have to facepalm.
I'd say this is the biggest thing that keeps me from playing popular MMOs today: the fact that the fundamental principle driving game design is one of convenience and accessibility INSTEAD of creating a worlds with danger and mystery where players need each other and communities therefore thrive.
Read above. Also Massively Multiplayer =/= grouping, never was and never has been. Plus you're in the minority, people don't want communities, they want to be able to play the game, cut them out, and you won't have enough of a player base to justify keeping the game going in most cases.
That said, I agree that MMOs are far too gentle. In fact, I'd go as far to say they do it wrong when they create a challenging area. Their version of challenging seems to be a mob swarm and super duper levels and incredible 'toughness' and a ridiculous hp bar and exploits the lack of a healer on your team. To me, a challenging foe is one that requires utilising all your skills and exploiting enemy weaknesses to win. I'd like on-level foes to be a challenge, but then I suppose they can't cater to every class.
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Quest based leveling
Instancing of just about any kind
(both things I consider major design flaws and warning signs of lazy developers)
and, a lack of any kind of death penalty.
Quest based levelling isn't an issue, errand based levelling on the other hand... -_-;; I can switch off in some MMO's when the text is a verbose description of why we need to kill 10 rabbits. I'm engaged when the story is actually a mini-story that has value for the area it is in. I suppose, The Secret World and Runescape do this particularly well.
Instancing is necessary at times.
Originally posted by observer
Gender-lock
Isometric view
Non-playable avatars, such as in EvE
Lobby hubs like GW1
P2W (forgot about this)
Those are pretty much deal-breakers for me. I'll still try them out, but i won't stay longer than a week.
Gender-lock I agree with. P2W is another.
Originally posted by Bonbalon
For me, it's not what games have, it's what games LACK that keep me away.
Personally, I love playing non healer support. Good luck finding that in a functional mmo game anymore. Be it pve or pvp, I love playing the role of the guy who doesn't seem to be doing much; little damage, little healing, not taking hits, etc, but is actively shaping the fight in favor of his team. Some games have buffbot classes, but those play out like dps classes that bestow buffs to me.
Closest thing I've seen is DC Universe Online's Controller role.
Agreed on this.
Good luck finding a sword/board that isn't a tank. No chance of being a dps sword/board because 'mechanics'.
As for what put me off games;
WoW - I never ever got into, I never understood the millions of yankees who obsess over it, nor did I get it when the European contignent got into it. I'm in the UK though and in 30 years I've only met ONE person who is a WoW player, so either it's a shameful admission or those who play WoW don't get out much.
I tried it several times, I've tried getting into it, but it just doesn't click for me. From the cartoon graphics, to the endless kill quests and the infantile player base. I dunno, it just isn't for me.
TSW - I liked the theme, but the limited quests and the vastly open combat systems put me off. I got to grips with the combat and the quests were well thought out and interesting, if the difficulty slider didn't scale very well. I dunno, I needed more to keep me going on it really.
ESO - Not interested at all.
SW KOTR: Class story was good, grouping was ok - same bunch of asshats that Mr "forced grouping" up there thinks is good for the community, what put me off wasn't actually the game itself but the developers. When they used marketing speak to basically say 'we ain't continuing the class story' that was it for me. As it is, I think the story progression end-game now is looking a bit suspect. I don't see the point in continuing with a game that was so obviously going to ditch what was keeping me there in the first place. And no, I wasn't in the mood to alt every single class, some concepts and some things were better than others.
Oh and no Republic Sniper class was frustrating! If they had that in, I might have actually subbed for life regardless because in anything with guns in it, Sniper is my element. (Yeah I know there's one on the Empire side...)
FF14: Grindy ass crafting, a story told by swallowing a thesaurus and some dodgy pacing. Actually, if you don't start in the navy starting area the story is at least told in a better way imo. While I enjoyed it, what I didn't like was the story dungeons that you basically have to progress through. I heard of the ridiculous queue times for DPS classes, I never experienced it as I went tank/healer, but the amount of asshattery that went on in these groups... You basically had a 50/50 chance of either getting a good group who would run the dungeon with you at an agreed pace for the group, identifying newbies and vets or a group that would rage at you for watching the story-cutscenes, happily run off and suicide by jumping into the boss battles without you, or just generally be dickish towards new players, even if they were learning considerably well as they went along.
If Square put in a 'boss fight / dungeon progression cannot happen until cut scenes finish' tick in the dungeon finder or whatever, I'd probably go back to this, but I don't see the point in playing a story-centric MMO where the playerbase is happy to ruin your day for experiencing it.
Everquest 2 - Just doesn't click for me, the combat is slow and painful and not particularly thought provoking. Its an illusion, but not well crafted. That said, the quest text and flavour is very good.
Star Trek online - Just isn't star trek, good for pew pew, not much else. Epic lulz in the group content as you get a bunch of people who haven't got a clue what to do despite their shiny cash shop super-ship and just get blown to pieces. -_-:;;;;;;
Cost. Baddly Made. Nothing super interesting. Map Limitations.
When they will finnaly release open world mmo ... like ... THE ENTIRE WORLD. But just parts of it. An actual mmo where you can travel to islands with a boat, where you can pass through mountains. Where zones change after a while, not INSTANTLY.
Comments
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
For me, it's not what games have, it's what games LACK that keep me away.
Personally, I love playing non healer support. Good luck finding that in a functional mmo game anymore. Be it pve or pvp, I love playing the role of the guy who doesn't seem to be doing much; little damage, little healing, not taking hits, etc, but is actively shaping the fight in favor of his team. Some games have buffbot classes, but those play out like dps classes that bestow buffs to me.
Closest thing I've seen is DC Universe Online's Controller role.
Actually out of everything available I think EVE does MMO the best. I love the passive skill system, it rewards the dedicated while still allows the the dabbler to find a role. I never felt group forced, I just used cheap ships and chips when I was solo. A Rifter can rock.Like others have noted PLEX is a system that works, both the buyers and the sellers like PLEX and the credits you can gain cannot make you significantly better in the game.
The only thing about EVE I don't like, besides getting ganked, is actually playing the game. I don't care for the interface, the GUI,The HUD or whatever you want to call it. It has rightfully been called derisively "spreadsheets in space." All those gorgeous graphics and you spend most of your time staring at lists or little red x's.
I would love it if a decent quality fantasy MMO would basically rip everything off from EVE and put me in a Humanoid body running around a huge world.
What is keeping me from MMO's is the same thing keeping me from Shooters. I played Doom, and Quake and Unreal and Goldeneye and Hexen, Long ago. It is played out to me. Just the same games in a fresh wrapper or prettier skin. Same goes for the WOW clone so called popular MMO's. It has been a long time since the MMO went 3D, but it hasn't changed all that much since it "stood up."
TLDR- It's played out man.
( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)
An acerbic sense of humor is NOT allowed here.
It's also game the OP knows he should have started playing years ago, and he just can't keep from kicking himself, so he invents all sorts of self imposed reasons why he can't start now.
The biggest limitation to a person playing EVE is not the games complexity, it's the attitude of the player holding them back more than anything.
No need to train skills for 6 months before you can start playing, get in a darn ship and get busy. 4 months after joining EVE I was in 0.0 ratting in a BS...and busting POSs....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Let me get this straight, almost a 12 year old MMORPG, that's been one of the most praised as the next best sandbox (after SWG) that's seen growth due to it's uniqueness and CCP being able to develop, improve and polish it over the decade both in its content and graphics and almost every MMORPG player has heard of by now in your opinion is not popular, umm ok.
I remember it had "advertised" a steady 300k subs for few years (not sure of its recent) with 20-30k online users on the server at a time...I guess those numbers are not sufficient in your opinion for a MMORPG to be popular. Anyways, since we're talking about "limitations" and "attitudes" that hold players back more than anything...Be honest and share here to the community some of the greatest moments and "experiences" you were fortunate to experience and remember with your beloved EVE beside roaming in 0.0 and busting POS, which I'm sure most do since that's pretty much endgame PvP. I'll be also glad to share some of my greatest moments and experiences in other beloved MMORPG's of my own.
You're saying you bust POS and that's great. I'm also sure while you were doing that others were busting your POS as well. It's like cat and mouse chase, but you aren't truly winning anything. Since the multiboxers and those who buy their PLEX'es with $ consistently "cheating" their way in the game because non other but CCP has allowed that to happen in their game. Why would I or anyone else be part of such MMORPG? It's also very casual and group dependent. You mentioned yourself how it took you 4 months to enter 0.0.
the grind.......be it mob farming or quest farming........im not a content locust and i like to take my time to level, but yisus craist, they should at least put some effort into making it enjoyable somehow....each time i see a game which leaves me with a grind "cliff" after the starting tutorial turns me off quickly.
oh wait, but that's for any MMO.
going in context with the OP would be the payment model mostly, i dont like P2W, i dont like B2P i can somehow get with P2P as long as i get to buy gametime with ingame currency (this is why i love/loved EVE) F2P is a no brainer for me as long as i dont get locked in content (which is something 90% of F2P titles do so damn)....
gender lock
lack of jump ( a fence that goes up to my knee should not be something that stops me)
This one really does my head in. Actually worse in FF14 ARR, because you're forced to group story instances and get hit with a barrage of 'OMFG SKIP THE CUT SCENES!" and you run the risk of getting booted if you don't do as you're told. It really isn't new player friendly in that respect.
*edit* missed this one, I don't actually mind that. I'm the opposite actually, I don't like being the inconsiquental every day man that isn't of any value. I can get that IRL cheers.
Read above. Also Massively Multiplayer =/= grouping, never was and never has been. Plus you're in the minority, people don't want communities, they want to be able to play the game, cut them out, and you won't have enough of a player base to justify keeping the game going in most cases.
That said, I agree that MMOs are far too gentle. In fact, I'd go as far to say they do it wrong when they create a challenging area. Their version of challenging seems to be a mob swarm and super duper levels and incredible 'toughness' and a ridiculous hp bar and exploits the lack of a healer on your team. To me, a challenging foe is one that requires utilising all your skills and exploiting enemy weaknesses to win. I'd like on-level foes to be a challenge, but then I suppose they can't cater to every class.
Quest based levelling isn't an issue, errand based levelling on the other hand... -_-;; I can switch off in some MMO's when the text is a verbose description of why we need to kill 10 rabbits. I'm engaged when the story is actually a mini-story that has value for the area it is in. I suppose, The Secret World and Runescape do this particularly well.
Instancing is necessary at times.
Gender-lock I agree with. P2W is another.
Agreed on this.
Good luck finding a sword/board that isn't a tank. No chance of being a dps sword/board because 'mechanics'.
As for what put me off games;
WoW - I never ever got into, I never understood the millions of yankees who obsess over it, nor did I get it when the European contignent got into it. I'm in the UK though and in 30 years I've only met ONE person who is a WoW player, so either it's a shameful admission or those who play WoW don't get out much.
I tried it several times, I've tried getting into it, but it just doesn't click for me. From the cartoon graphics, to the endless kill quests and the infantile player base. I dunno, it just isn't for me.
TSW - I liked the theme, but the limited quests and the vastly open combat systems put me off. I got to grips with the combat and the quests were well thought out and interesting, if the difficulty slider didn't scale very well. I dunno, I needed more to keep me going on it really.
ESO - Not interested at all.
SW KOTR: Class story was good, grouping was ok - same bunch of asshats that Mr "forced grouping" up there thinks is good for the community, what put me off wasn't actually the game itself but the developers. When they used marketing speak to basically say 'we ain't continuing the class story' that was it for me. As it is, I think the story progression end-game now is looking a bit suspect. I don't see the point in continuing with a game that was so obviously going to ditch what was keeping me there in the first place. And no, I wasn't in the mood to alt every single class, some concepts and some things were better than others.
Oh and no Republic Sniper class was frustrating! If they had that in, I might have actually subbed for life regardless because in anything with guns in it, Sniper is my element. (Yeah I know there's one on the Empire side...)
FF14: Grindy ass crafting, a story told by swallowing a thesaurus and some dodgy pacing. Actually, if you don't start in the navy starting area the story is at least told in a better way imo. While I enjoyed it, what I didn't like was the story dungeons that you basically have to progress through. I heard of the ridiculous queue times for DPS classes, I never experienced it as I went tank/healer, but the amount of asshattery that went on in these groups... You basically had a 50/50 chance of either getting a good group who would run the dungeon with you at an agreed pace for the group, identifying newbies and vets or a group that would rage at you for watching the story-cutscenes, happily run off and suicide by jumping into the boss battles without you, or just generally be dickish towards new players, even if they were learning considerably well as they went along.
If Square put in a 'boss fight / dungeon progression cannot happen until cut scenes finish' tick in the dungeon finder or whatever, I'd probably go back to this, but I don't see the point in playing a story-centric MMO where the playerbase is happy to ruin your day for experiencing it.
Everquest 2 - Just doesn't click for me, the combat is slow and painful and not particularly thought provoking. Its an illusion, but not well crafted. That said, the quest text and flavour is very good.
Star Trek online - Just isn't star trek, good for pew pew, not much else. Epic lulz in the group content as you get a bunch of people who haven't got a clue what to do despite their shiny cash shop super-ship and just get blown to pieces. -_-:;;;;;;
I'm sure I'm missing one but that'll do for now.
Cost. Baddly Made. Nothing super interesting. Map Limitations.
When they will finnaly release open world mmo ... like ... THE ENTIRE WORLD. But just parts of it. An actual mmo where you can travel to islands with a boat, where you can pass through mountains. Where zones change after a while, not INSTANTLY.
Did i say that they cost money?